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I went to The Home Depot this week and saw signs that they are taking Paypal for payments in-store.

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Mr chiu?

SUCKISSTAPLES (May. 13, 2012 @ 4:08a) |

I was referring to the paypal debit card.

PatrickM213 (May. 17, 2012 @ 5:28p) |

Look, I get what you're saying about gray market stuff, but this is not at all gray market. If you read deeper into the ... (more)

arktc (May. 24, 2012 @ 7:01p) |


And Office Depot, but Home Depot is already nationwide, Office Depot is still piloting, I believe.

... and all the silly new "2.0 mobile payment company that will revolutionize the world? Customers? We need no stinking customers!" are now going to finally collapse.

The devil shows its head. The end of retail customer service cannot be far behind. And the ability to return items. And (insert anything related to aiding the customer).
Amazon will remain for everyone else.

PayPal and Home Depot have had this in place for a couple of months already, I believe. There was a fair amount of publicity (including some criticisms from Visa regarding the PayPal system's security) when they first launched their trial.

MidnightLight said:   (including some criticisms from Visa regarding the PayPal system's security)

If rewards are not part of the equation, I feel safer paying with PayPal. I've had more issues with my credit cards than I've had with PayPal. There's that one time the gas station took my AMEX and ran $50k in charges. Then there was the other time, the slimy waiter at the restaurant sold it some person in Ukraine. Then there's Geeks that got their credit cards hacked and some person in Vietnam ran some charges up. I've had my issues with PayPal, nothing like what I've had with credit cards.

sun818 said:   MidnightLight said:   (including some criticisms from Visa regarding the PayPal system's security)

If rewards are not part of the equation, I feel safer paying with PayPal. I've had more issues with my credit cards than I've had with PayPal. There's that one time the gas station took my AMEX and ran $50k in charges. Then there was the other time, the slimy waiter at the restaurant sold it some person in Ukraine. Then there's Geeks that got their credit cards hacked and some person in Vietnam ran some charges up. I've had my issues with PayPal, nothing like what I've had with credit cards.


How much of those charges were you actually held responsible for?

I'd take my chances with credit card customer service than Paypal

sun818 said:   If rewards are not part of the equation, I feel safer paying with PayPal.you can't be serious

SUB said:   sun818 said:   MidnightLight said:   (including some criticisms from Visa regarding the PayPal system's security)

If rewards are not part of the equation, I feel safer paying with PayPal. I've had more issues with my credit cards than I've had with PayPal. There's that one time the gas station took my AMEX and ran $50k in charges. Then there was the other time, the slimy waiter at the restaurant sold it some person in Ukraine. Then there's Geeks that got their credit cards hacked and some person in Vietnam ran some charges up. I've had my issues with PayPal, nothing like what I've had with credit cards.


How much of those charges were you actually held responsible for?

I'd take my chances with credit card customer service than Paypal


Plus, credit cards have far more statutory protection than Paypal, which is not subject to the same regulation as a bank.

sun818 said:   MidnightLight said:   (including some criticisms from Visa regarding the PayPal system's security)

If rewards are not part of the equation, I feel safer paying with PayPal. I've had more issues with my credit cards than I've had with PayPal. There's that one time the gas station took my AMEX and ran $50k in charges. Then there was the other time, the slimy waiter at the restaurant sold it some person in Ukraine. Then there's Geeks that got their credit cards hacked and some person in Vietnam ran some charges up. I've had my issues with PayPal, nothing like what I've had with credit cards.


The difference between dealing with your CC company and Paypal is that you can actually do the former, and they have incentive to make it right (competition, regulations). You obviously have never had an issue arise with Paypal.

doveroftke said:   SUB said:   sun818 said:   MidnightLight said:   (including some criticisms from Visa regarding the PayPal system's security)

If rewards are not part of the equation, I feel safer paying with PayPal. I've had more issues with my credit cards than I've had with PayPal. There's that one time the gas station took my AMEX and ran $50k in charges. Then there was the other time, the slimy waiter at the restaurant sold it some person in Ukraine. Then there's Geeks that got their credit cards hacked and some person in Vietnam ran some charges up. I've had my issues with PayPal, nothing like what I've had with credit cards.


How much of those charges were you actually held responsible for?

I'd take my chances with credit card customer service than Paypal


Plus, credit cards have far more statutory protection than Paypal, which is not subject to the same regulation as a bank.

Paypal is responsible and regulated to no one but itself-if you haven't been effed by paypal, don't worry-you will be.

I've been using PayPal for over ten years. They are fine.

I paid $150 ($50 x 3) for the the fraud charges on the credit card.

For more than ten years, I've yet to have a fraud using PayPal as the payment method.

I know most of the people on FW have a different opinion about PayPal so the responses are predictable.

sun818 said:   I've been using PayPal for over ten years. They are fine.

I paid $150 ($50 x 3) for the the fraud charges on the credit card.

For more than ten years, I've yet to have a fraud using PayPal as the payment method.

I know most of the people on FW have a different opinion about PayPal so the responses are predictable.
Actually your responses are rather predictable in that they typically represent usage contrary to common FWF activity.

Now, this one time at band camp...

Venturion said:   sun818 said:   usage contrary to common FWF activity.

If you think so... its just your opinion.

How does this even work in the HD store in practice?

You have a username/password for Paypal. What do you enter in the terminal in-store?

I asked the cashier last time I was in a HD and she mumbled something about entering the phone # on your Paypal acct. That makes sense...

So do you just use your Paypal phone # and some kind of password/PIN#?

Your phone number associated with your PayPal and a PIN. If you have the iPhone app, the login procedure would be similar.

sun818 said:   If rewards are not part of the equation, I feel safer paying with PayPal.

The exposure of someone stealing your Paypal details can be much greater. Paypal's in-store service allows you to fund charges across multiple accounts. A thief could clean out your linked bank account AND your credit cards. Plus, if you dispute the charges with your credit card company, they're just going to reverse the charge on Paypal, who will then come after you.

There's many reasons to like Paypal, but limited exposure and customer service are not high among them.

More specifics here: http://www.suntimes.com/business/10940501-420/paypal-entering-brick-and-mortar-through-home-depot.html

sun818 said:   If rewards are not part of the equation, I feel safer paying with PayPal. I've had more issues with my credit cards than I've had with PayPal. There's that one time the gas station took my AMEX and ran $50k in charges. Then there was the other time, the slimy waiter at the restaurant sold it some person in Ukraine. Then there's Geeks that got their credit cards hacked and some person in Vietnam ran some charges up. I've had my issues with PayPal, nothing like what I've had with credit cards.

Yes, and you paid nothing when your AMEX got stolen. That's because there are rules and regulations for credit card companies and also rules from Visa, Mastercard, and AMEX for their networks. You have a huge number of protections against regulated financial institutions. I might add that I've had my credits cards jacked numerous times, and I've never paid the $50 that you mention, even though I know it's written in the standard Visa agreements.

Paypal has no such regulations and is not regulated as a bank, even though they are acting as one in many cases. It's not a good thing. I don't trust Paypal at all and do not leave money in my account. They can freeze your account at any time, and you have very little recourse. What they say on disputes goes, and you have very little recourse (anyone who regularly transacts on eBay knows what I'm talking about).

sun818 said:   There's that one time the gas station took my AMEX and ran $50k in chargesWith just the AMEX card number??

Hopefully they recreate the full paypal experience and some hooligans dressed in paypal shirts steal my wallet in the parking lot and put a freeze on the home repair items I purchased for 2 weeks.

arktc said:   sun818 said:   They can freeze your account at any time, and you have very little recourse.

Unless you are specifically referring to WikiLeaks, PayPal does not "freeze" accounts any more.

What your credit card company decides in a chargeback situation also goes... Its a red herring when you bring up this point. If you want to make comparisons, make comparisons where one side is superior in some way.

beanie4me said:   sun818 said:   limited exposure and customer service are not high among them.

I agree on your point about customer service. Limited exposure, I would argue, is better with PayPal since there are email notifications every time there is a purchase made with a debit card, an e-mail change, funding from your bank account, funding your credit card. If you are away on vacation or don't check your e-mail, then it is not useful, but I find being able to receive e-mail from PayPal for transactions virtually mitigates fraud to the short term.

With credit cards, some people only have their monthly paper statements to go on. You can also be proactive with online accounts, but I find PayPal has refined this process more.

xoneinax said:   sun818 said:   There's that one time the gas station took my AMEX and ran $50k in chargesWith just the AMEX card number?? Yes. I only used the card once at a gas station for a business trip.

arktc said:   sun818 said:   I've never paid the $50 that you mention, even though I know it's written in the standard Visa agreements.

Good for you. I've paid the deductible numerous times. You do realize there many credit cards out there and some actually enforce their policies?

sun818 said:   Unless you are specifically referring to WikiLeaks, PayPal does not "freeze" accounts any more.
LOL, if they aren't freezing your account, you aren't trying hard enough. They sure do freeze accounts for no good reason (I.e. No chargebacks or disputes, just "looks risky"), and you'll be lucky if they give you the time of day, let alone you money back, before 6 months.

Saw this a month ago at Home Depot and it made my skin crawl.

I feel very comfortable with the security of my overall Paypal usage. Credit card compromise does not fall under Paypal's control, but the way they handle it is very satisfactory. Many people get bent out of shape when they have a problem with Paypal, even when Paypal has no control on the process.

Paypal is so different because everything is considered cash based. Paypal transactions are settled immediately or within a few days from cash or a backup funding source. No credit is extended, so there is no way to delay the possible consequences of usage.

I have had a business account at Paypal since before they were named Paypal. I currently maintain at least 7 Paypal accounts without a problem. I have used my main account heavily in previous years for eBay, and never had a problem there either.

Last year, and the year before, my Paypal debit card was compromised. Paypal called me about a purchase of a $600+ airline ticket in Turkey, I verified not buying the ticket and they canceled the card. There were 4 small transactions on the account the same day. The fault was actually not Paypal's because MasterCard approved the authorization even though none of the information used for the POS transaction matched the account info. Paypal immediately put the funds in my account to cover the transactions during the investigation process. Although the matter wasn't settled, I was able to continue using my account with my wife's card and my new card as soon as it arrived.

The Paypal debit card is the only card I use, and I hardly ever have any money in Paypal.
I use my Paypal card as a credit card, no pin based transactions.
I have 2 checking accounts with one linked to my Paypal account.
I keep no money in Paypal.
I set the maximum that can be open on the account at any one time (for each of the 2 cards).
I get an email from Paypal immediately after using my card(s). I could also get texts to my phone.
Paypal processes the transactions and takes the money from my checking account on a per transaction basis.
Each transaction takes at least 2 days to clear the bank.
When needed I transfer money into the checking account from my other account.

If there is a problem with a transaction, such as an unauthorized purchase, I can go to the bank and put a stop payment for the ACH transfer. I did have to do that the last time the card was compromised. It worked great as it made sure the payment would not process while I called Paypal and got it straight. Once a transaction is in process Paypal can't just stop it, even if they know it is fraudulent. But I can stop the impact it would have on me. If it is just a single transaction dispute I can do it for the exact amount and they will continue to process all other transfers. I can do it for any transfer over a certain amount etc. Very flexible, and costs me nothing.

Unlike the bank (which penalizes for any transaction without funds to cover it); if a ACH transfer to Paypal is denied, Paypal only suspends the usage of the account until I put money in there to bring it current. No penalties or NSF fees like a bank.

And I get 1.5% CashBack from Paypal for every purchase.

I know it is the same as check kiting if I know there is no money in the bank when I use the card. Banks, and Paypal, get to use the float to make money. Why should it be illegal for us. NSF fees help inhibit it at the bank level, Paypal has no penalty (yet).

xerty said:   sun818 said:   Unless you are specifically referring to WikiLeaks, PayPal does not "freeze" accounts any more.
LOL, if they aren't freezing your account, you aren't trying hard enough. They sure do freeze accounts for no good reason (I.e. No chargebacks or disputes, just "looks risky"), and you'll be lucky if they give you the time of day, let alone you money back, before 6 months.
And your bank can do the same thing if your usage "looks risky". It is their opinion.

Give us details of your exact instance where Paypal froze your account.

Cash is king. Always will be.

DeFiantROA said:   Cash is king. Always will be.And I am using "cash" every time I make a purchase with my Paypal card.

watchtower77 said:   Listen, you paypal fanboys, either you work for paypal/eBay or you are lucky and/or fools.
Google paypal is the devil and see how happy everyone is with paypal.
Google paypal is great and compare.
I did a lot of "questionable transactions" when Bing CashBack was alive. I did get one warning from eBay, never a word from Paypal.

People that have an instance and are unhappy love to complain. People that do not and are happy have other things to do. That makes the comparison uneven.

Venturion said:   sun818 said:   I've been using PayPal for over ten years. They are fine.

I paid $150 ($50 x 3) for the the fraud charges on the credit card.

For more than ten years, I've yet to have a fraud using PayPal as the payment method.

I know most of the people on FW have a different opinion about PayPal so the responses are predictable.
Actually your responses are rather predictable in that they typically represent usage contrary to common FWF activity.

Now, this one time at band camp...
Nope. He's a buyer. FWF folks that have beef with paypal are sellers and, dare I say it, most likely are the at nest gray market sellers.

EvilCapitalist said:   Nope. He's a buyer. FWF folks that have beef with paypal are sellers and, dare I say it, most likely are the at nest gray market sellers.

I don't you know me well enough to make such statements. I do both with PayPal.

I don't really see what the point of this is when you can use the debit card at HD anyway-- and you get a point back(1.5%? don't remember) for running it as credit

Meh, I moved a lot of goods, dough, services, donations, etc through PP since it started.

Had 1 guy try and bone me on a deal. 15 minutes later it was resolved.

Never had a complaint. If they're the devil, they're giving me back 1.5% CashBack on my purchases to be the devil,
so whatever, I'll go that route.

sun818 said:   If rewards are not part of the equationBut they are part of the equation.
sun818 said:   I paid $150 ($50 x 3) for the the fraud charges on the credit card.lol. I made $375 ($50, $75, $250) for three charges on the credit card today. If I ever have to pay $50 for some fraud charge, so be it.

jimates said:   DeFiantROA said:   Cash is king. Always will be.And I am using "cash" every time I make a purchase with my Paypal card.

watchtower77 said:   Listen, you paypal fanboys, either you work for paypal/eBay or you are lucky and/or fools.
Google paypal is the devil and see how happy everyone is with paypal.
Google paypal is great and compare.
I did a lot of "questionable transactions" when Bing CashBack was alive. I did get one warning from eBay, never a word from Paypal.

People that have an instance and are unhappy love to complain. People that do not and are happy have other things to do. That makes the comparison uneven.


Moron thinks dollar bills is same thing is a debit card. How they brainwash the public.

DeFiantROA said:   Cash is king. Always will be.

For those not capable of handling a credit card.

Wonder how long it is before Home Depot gets its account frozen for suspected fraud?

I wonder how soon the HD return fraud monitoring service links up with paypal.

Skipping 14 Messages...
EvilCapitalist said:   arktc said:   EvilCapitalist said:   Venturion said:   sun818 said:   I've been using PayPal for over ten years. They are fine.

I paid $150 ($50 x 3) for the the fraud charges on the credit card.

For more than ten years, I've yet to have a fraud using PayPal as the payment method.

I know most of the people on FW have a different opinion about PayPal so the responses are predictable.
Actually your responses are rather predictable in that they typically represent usage contrary to common FWF activity.

Now, this one time at band camp...
Nope. He's a buyer. FWF folks that have beef with paypal are sellers and, dare I say it, most likely are the at nest gray market sellers.


No, I'm not talking about gray market sellers -- do you mean the people who buy things at discount in a FWF deal and then re-sell on eBay? I have never sold anything on eBay, although I have purchased plenty of things on eBay, but there are two stories I'll give here that do not involve gray market issues:

1) http://forum.purseblog.com/ebay-forum/help-i-think-i-am-being-sc...

You are talking about at best gray market sellers that are in the business of walking the thin line on fraud - i'd give it 99:1 that the LV bag would not have passed the machine test so the person in question was selling counterfeit item. Even the first post on that thread is dance around of what kind of fraud one can engage in without getting caught. Guess what? I'm peeved the person did not get nailed for doing that. Here's my "dream world" - no person selling a fake can use paypal or any other electronic transaction. Make them be internet version of the Canal St stalls - cash only.


Look, I get what you're saying about gray market stuff, but this is not at all gray market. If you read deeper into the thread, you can see where the scammer has posted the authentic item on Craigslist, along with authentic stuff from other people the scammer scammed. http://forum.purseblog.com/ebay-forum/help-i-think-i-am-being-sc... There are photos included on the Craigslist post, which someone made a screenshot of, and in some cases the scammer used the original photos from the original seller that got scammed. It is a long thread, so I don't blame you for not reading further.

The Purse Forum is a legit source of authentic bags because it is inhabited by collectors and enthusiasts, but it is for person-to-person transactions. As I understand, the transaction in question was made by a reputable member of the forum who has engaged in more than one person-to-person transaction on the forum. The Purse Forum is not a forum I inhabit, but a forum that a friend who is an enthusiast inhabits. From what I can tell, it's similar to Fred Miranda or Photography-on-the.net for photography equipment. Fred Miranda, which I've used in the past, has a feedback system for members of the forum, and there is a good bit of policing on the forum as well where people will report back to the entire forum a possible fraud scenario when a seller doesn't seem quite right. I'm assuming that The Purse Forum does the same.



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