I live in Michigan and I see a bunch of volts on the road. We have four electric recharging stations at my work (not a car related business) where I see a volt and a Prius (DIY electric plug in) there sometimes. The other day I walked out and saw four Volts in the charging stations. I would say something is happening to see this many here at one time.
I heard about these deals on the local news and know someone who picked up a similar deal.
Engineering these cars takes a lot of money and this is a newer area for the OEM's. I am sure they have learned a lot and it is hard to put a price on this. Is the volt costly, yes. Will it get better and cheaper, yes. We are just beginning to enter this type of automobile I hear about battery breakthroughs every so often. New products always cost more in the beginning but hopefully you make it back over the long term.
I know many people who own the Prius including my sister. Everyone I know that owns one loves it. I guess that is why it sells so well. Some of these have over 150K miles on them with very little problems. One friend took in his Prius to have it looked over at 135K miles just because he thought he should. They said it looked good and he was about half way through the brakes. I hear some say who knows what the repair cost will be down the road. Maybe there will be something but who would have thought that getting almost 300K miles on a set of brakes came as part of the deal as well.
First is the advanced lithium–ion battery that allows you to drive gas-free for an EPA-estimated 38 miles.
There’s also an onboard gas generator that produces electricity so you can travel a total of 380 miles on a full charge and full tank of gas†. Now that’s long-range savings.
Choose a standard 120V charging unit† that allows you to plug into an electrical outlet and fully charge the battery in about 10 to 16 hours, based on charging levels and outside temperature. Or opt for an available 240V charging station that reduces your charging time to approximately four hours. Professional installation required
MSRP* as low as $31,645. Price after tax savings. Net price shown includes the full $7,500 tax credit1,2. $39,145 MSRP* with federal tax savings from $0 up to $7,500.
GM's discounts on the Volt are more than four times the industry's per-vehicle average, according to TrueCar estimates. Edmunds.com and J.D. Power and Associates say they're about three times the average. Discounts include low-interest financing, cash discounts to buyers, sales bonuses to dealers, and subsidized leases.
Question: The fuel tank size on the volt is 9.3 gallons. EPA estimates 101 City / 93 Hwy. Chevy says it can go 380 miles on a full charge AND full tank of gas. What am I missing?
clearanceman
Senior Member - 10K
posted: Sep. 30, 2012 @ 9:51a
ClearanceItem said: Count me as one more FW member fed-up with the faux praise of this travesty of an automobile.
The Volt is powered by one thing: snake oil.
They were lighting on fire; GM recalled all of them. Not exaggerating. Again, they were lighting on fire. GM recalled all of them.
First is the advanced lithium–ion battery that allows you to drive gas-free for an EPA-estimated 38 miles.
There’s also an onboard gas generator that produces electricity so you can travel a total of 380 miles on a full charge and full tank of gas†. Now that’s long-range savings.
Choose a standard 120V charging unit† that allows you to plug into an electrical outlet and fully charge the battery in about 10 to 16 hours, based on charging levels and outside temperature. Or opt for an available 240V charging station that reduces your charging time to approximately four hours. Professional installation required
MSRP* as low as $31,645. Price after tax savings. Net price shown includes the full $7,500 tax credit1,2. $39,145 MSRP* with federal tax savings from $0 up to $7,500.
GM's discounts on the Volt are more than four times the industry's per-vehicle average, according to TrueCar estimates. Edmunds.com and J.D. Power and Associates say they're about three times the average. Discounts include low-interest financing, cash discounts to buyers, sales bonuses to dealers, and subsidized leases.
Question: The fuel tank size on the volt is 9.3 gallons. EPA estimates 101 City / 93 Hwy. Chevy says it can go 380 miles on a full charge AND full tank of gas. What am I missing?
It doesn't get great mileage on the gas engine, 32 or something. It's ok but no better than a honda fit or Chevy Cruze.
If you have a long commute and no charging ability at work, this is probably not the car for you. But still, at $159 per month and no money down, that's cheaper than a Corolla, right? But if you have a long commute, you are going to go over the mileage.
But for those that have a short commute and/or they live in an area with charging stations, one of those sub $200 leases is a great deal.
And really I don't see where this has to do with the taxpayer being ripped off. We can't go back in time and undo this, our best bet is to profit from it if we can.
rsuaver
Senior Member - 9K
posted: Sep. 30, 2012 @ 10:35a
If I have to charge it at home (assuming less than 30 miles r/t commute), how much would I spend on electricity? If I had a free charger at work, it would be great, as I would not have to charge it at home, but it's not the case for me.
kshell
Senior Member - 1K
posted: Sep. 30, 2012 @ 10:46a
From what I have read with the exception of the Prius Plugin you don't need a charging system to be able to go from point A to point B. If you lease or buy one of these Volts won't you have to install a charging system or is the little gas engine able to recharge the batteries all by itself?
clearanceman
Senior Member - 10K
posted: Sep. 30, 2012 @ 10:49a
rsuaver said: If I have to charge it at home (assuming less than 30 miles r/t commute), how much would I spend on electricity? If I had a free charger at work, it would be great, as I would not have to charge it at home, but it's not the case for me.
Depends on your rate for electricity. However, it's generally much cheaper than the cost of gasoline.
clearanceman
Senior Member - 10K
posted: Sep. 30, 2012 @ 10:50a
kshell said: From what I have read with the exception of the Prius Plugin you don't need a charging system to be able to go from point A to point B. If you lease or buy one of these Volts won't you have to install a charging system or is the little gas engine able to recharge the batteries all by itself?
Yes and no. When the gas engine is running, it is only getting the same mileage as a small car. So there is no advantage. The only advantage is if you can run it on the battery most of the time.
kshell
Senior Member - 1K
posted: Sep. 30, 2012 @ 11:21a
clearanceman said: rsuaver said: If I have to charge it at home (assuming less than 30 miles r/t commute), how much would I spend on electricity? If I had a free charger at work, it would be great, as I would not have to charge it at home, but it's not the case for me.
Depends on your rate for electricity. However, it's generally much cheaper than the cost of gasoline.You need to drive more than 30 miles from time to time to use and refresh the gasoline in the tank; otherwise, it'll go bad. The cost for that repair will be more than the cost for few gallons a month for gas.
owenscott
Broke Member
posted: Sep. 30, 2012 @ 11:39a
I read its about a 1.50 to charge. Maybe here in the posts ...
NxN2005
Senior Member - 1K
posted: Sep. 30, 2012 @ 12:58p
kshell said: clearanceman said: rsuaver said: If I have to charge it at home (assuming less than 30 miles r/t commute), how much would I spend on electricity? If I had a free charger at work, it would be great, as I would not have to charge it at home, but it's not the case for me.
Depends on your rate for electricity. However, it's generally much cheaper than the cost of gasoline.You need to drive more than 30 miles from time to time to use and refresh the gasoline in the tank; otherwise, it'll go bad. The cost for that repair will be more than the cost for few gallons a month for gas.
True, but from what I've read the car is programmed to handle the above situation (i.e. automatically start running the gas engine to avoid the fuel going "bad").
wp746911
Senior Member - 1K
posted: Sep. 30, 2012 @ 1:25p
so, where exactly are these deals? $135/month is an insane deal, if that is true. Any links to a dealer that will do something like this (I'm in Texas).
Also, I don't get the negative volt vibe here. The volt was almost 100% not designed to be a money maker. It was designed to push the limits of chevy technology, create/expand a market, etc. I don't think chevy had any dreams of rolling in volt money. They do have dreams of profiting from it in 10+ years, once critical mass is reached. It is doing what it was designed to do, and pretty well. The problem is that most auto-consumers have now become used to $4/gallon gas (does ANYONE remember people dumping SUVs for massive losses and overpaying for old Geo metros a few years ago, when gas spiked? there were doomsday people saying $8/gas was coming, and that suburbs would all fail). I have friends who drive 50-60 miles daily, and run out and buy a 40k full size SUV for themselves. Humans.
saladdin
Senior Member
posted: Sep. 30, 2012 @ 6:02p
frenchylarue said: todd2006 said: If this deal were possible in CA without any hassle, I'd jump on it.
And yes, it makes a huge difference in one's commute in CA to be able to jump into the carpool lanes. It would cut my 30 minute commute down to 20 minutes. Not just the carpool lanes, but the carpool onramps during rush hour. Huge advantage.
How tough the cops enforcing? Is it a huge ticket to get caught ?
owenscott
Broke Member
posted: Sep. 30, 2012 @ 6:11p
California has huge fines for everything ... Especially conservation stuff.
NoMoneyInMyWallet
Tired Member
posted: Sep. 30, 2012 @ 6:24p
saladdin said: How tough the cops enforcing? Is it a huge ticket to get caught ?Putting your blow up doll in the passenger seat won't work.
Witold
Ancient Member
posted: Sep. 30, 2012 @ 6:56p
ClearanceItem said: Count me as one more FW member fed-up with the faux praise of this travesty of an automobile.
The Volt is powered by one thing: snake oil.
They were lighting on fire; GM recalled all of them. Not exaggerating. Again, they were lighting on fire. GM recalled all of them.
Politics aside, it is a symbol of disastrous failure. But politics can't be set aside when you choose to drive one.
No one here believes the car is worth 40 grand. I certainly don't want to buy one at that price.
But I'm a fatwalleter. If the price is good, I'm willing to consider the goods. At ~$150/month, that seems like a good value. Maybe you wouldn't get the Volt even for $5/month, but I would.
As for the recall, who cares? Tons of cars get recalled. And this is the funniest recall reason of all, because:
[L=http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/05/autos/volt_fire_fix/index.htm said: Th...]http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/05/autos/volt_fire_fix/index.htm]The[/L] fires, which happened one to three weeks after the crash tests, were sparked after the cars had been slowly rotated as part of a post-test procedure causing the coolant to come into contact with circuit boards.
So to get this fire, not only did you have to crash the car, you also had to wait 1-3 weeks after the crash, AND you had to rotate the car sideways so that the coolant flows on the battery. I hope there are more paranoid people like you causing undeserved bad PR and driving the demand down.
***
Tomorrow is Monday. I will call around dealers around Philly area to ask what they can offer.
clearanceman
Senior Member - 10K
posted: Sep. 30, 2012 @ 7:00p
kshell said: clearanceman said: rsuaver said: If I have to charge it at home (assuming less than 30 miles r/t commute), how much would I spend on electricity? If I had a free charger at work, it would be great, as I would not have to charge it at home, but it's not the case for me.
Depends on your rate for electricity. However, it's generally much cheaper than the cost of gasoline.You need to drive more than 30 miles from time to time to use and refresh the gasoline in the tank; otherwise, it'll go bad. The cost for that repair will be more than the cost for few gallons a month for gas.
I've read that it takes 12kWh to fully charge. At nat'l AVG of $.12 per kWh, that works out to around 30 miles for a dollar (car went 44 miles). If the car gets 30 mpg, and gas is $4.00, then it was 75% less expensive.
Regardless, the point of the post is regarding what appears to be a lease rate that no one has confirmed.
tmwilkin
Frivolous Member
posted: Sep. 30, 2012 @ 8:08p
clearanceman said: ClearanceItem said: Count me as one more FW member fed-up with the faux praise of this travesty of an automobile.
The Volt is powered by one thing: snake oil.
They were lighting on fire; GM recalled all of them. Not exaggerating. Again, they were lighting on fire. GM recalled all of them.
Politics aside, it is a symbol of disastrous failure. But politics can't be set aside when you choose to drive one.
Even though I agree with you about it being a failure, if you can get one for $160 a month and no money down, it's a no brainer IMO.
Well 1 volt caught fire....10's of thousands of Ford pickups have caught fire and that hasn't stopped anyone from buying and driving them.
Related to this article it's badly badly written. Nobody has been able to find any deals like this. The author seems to include the $7500 government credit in his numbers as GM discount...truecar numbers don't match what he says either. Basically your not going to find this deal...the journalist ... phoned it in.
BudmanTom
Addicted Member
posted: Sep. 30, 2012 @ 10:38p
scottwood2 said:
Engineering these cars takes a lot of money and this is a newer area for the OEM's. I am sure they have learned a lot and it is hard to put a price on this. Is the volt costly, yes. Will it get better and cheaper, yes. We are just beginning to enter this type of automobile I hear about battery breakthroughs every so often. New products always cost more in the beginning but hopefully you make it back over the long term.
Electric cars have been around for over a hundred years, back then they did it without a government handout.
BudmanTom
Addicted Member
posted: Sep. 30, 2012 @ 10:44p
nsearch said: Leave politics out of the discussion please. Most of the plans for moving this car into production occurred before the auto bailout in 2009. If you mean that GM would have gone out of business and the bailout stopped that from happening and thus the car would have never continued to be produced then you are right. But the debate whether the bailout was good for the economy is one for a different forum and not this forum or this website. This forum is intended to breakdown the deal and whether it is a good one to you as a consumer of the product/service.
Thanks for keeping politics out of it but just to be clear, GM had cancelled it's plans to continue with the Volt(as it would be too expensive and lose money) and the government brought it back.
GM would have filed for bankruptcy, restructured and come out a lot stronger without government intervention, just like plenty of other companies have.
vickh
Senior Member - 5K
posted: Sep. 30, 2012 @ 11:05p
BudmanTom said: nsearch said: Leave politics out of the discussion please. Most of the plans for moving this car into production occurred before the auto bailout in 2009. If you mean that GM would have gone out of business and the bailout stopped that from happening and thus the car would have never continued to be produced then you are right. But the debate whether the bailout was good for the economy is one for a different forum and not this forum or this website. This forum is intended to breakdown the deal and whether it is a good one to you as a consumer of the product/service.
Thanks for keeping politics out of it but just to be clear, GM had cancelled it's plans to continue with the Volt(as it would be too expensive and lose money) and the government brought it back.
GM would have filed for bankruptcy, restructured and come out a lot stronger without government intervention, just like plenty of other companies have.
but what about the unions? and the Detroit HQ?
Still, anyone see any advertised cheap leases we can PM???
joedaddy123
Broke Member
posted: Sep. 30, 2012 @ 11:27p
okay.. so no one PERSONALLY knows anyone leasing this car under $200/mo? hmmm...
dead topic if you ask me...
Witold
Ancient Member
posted: Sep. 30, 2012 @ 11:36p
joedaddy123 said: okay.. so no one PERSONALLY knows anyone leasing this car under $200/mo? hmmm...
dead topic if you ask me...
There's a bunch of articles in the media claiming these leases are possible... (But they all could be repeating one original source)
I will definitely call around tomorrow to see if this is hype or if this is realistic.
joedaddy123
Broke Member
posted: Sep. 30, 2012 @ 11:49p
2013 CHEVROLET VOLT Chevrolet National Lease Offers Example based on survey. Each dealer sets own price. Your payments may vary. Payments are for a 2013 CHEVROLET Volt with an MSRP of $39,995. 36 monthly payments total $10,764. Option to purchase at lease end for an amount to be determined at lease signing. plus $350 or turn in vehicle and pay $395 termination fee. Lessor must approve lease. Take delivery by 10-31-2012. Mileage charge of $0.25/mile over 36,000 miles. Lessee pays for maintenance, repair and excess wear. Payments may be higher in some states. Not available with other offers. Residency restrictions apply. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ so here is my math...
$10,764 + $1,529 total payments for 3 years.. -$7,500 federal tax credit (i pay above this amount for my federal taxes and I don't itemize my deductions) = $4,793 total money of out my pocket..?! that's $133/month... which sounds way too good to be true.. Please tell me I am wrong, or I am going to lease this car tomorrow morning...
P.S. I know there's a TTL.. but I can't see it adding that much $$$ to my bottom line..
Witold
Ancient Member
posted: Oct. 1, 2012 @ 12:40a
joedaddy123 said: Please tell me I am wrong, or I am going to lease this car tomorrow morning...
When you lease a vehicle you don't own that vehicle. The leasing company owns that vehicle. Consequently, you do not get a tax credit for purchasing the vehicle.
But even if you did, your math would be wrong (most likely). You can't just consider 7500 deduction as if it was additional tax deduction on top of your current situation. You have to look at it in light of your standard deduction. If you owe 5K in taxes currently and standard deduction is 4500 (or whatever it is), then you are paying $500 in taxes. If you suddenly have a 7500 credit, you have to itemize and you lose your standard deduction. So 7500 credit offsets your 4500 standard deduction you had before for doing nothing. Before, you paid 500 in taxes, now you pay 0 - improvement for sure, but not the drastic change you have in your example. Depending on the details, it could be a big change or a small change.
joedaddy123
Broke Member
posted: Oct. 1, 2012 @ 2:08a
Witold said: joedaddy123 said: Please tell me I am wrong, or I am going to lease this car tomorrow morning...
When you lease a vehicle you don't own that vehicle. The leasing company owns that vehicle. Consequently, you do not get a tax credit for purchasing the vehicle.
But even if you did, your math would be wrong (most likely). You can't just consider 7500 deduction as if it was additional tax deduction on top of your current situation. You have to look at it in light of your standard deduction. If you owe 5K in taxes currently and standard deduction is 4500 (or whatever it is), then you are paying $500 in taxes. If you suddenly have a 7500 credit, you have to itemize and you lose your standard deduction. So 7500 credit offsets your 4500 standard deduction you had before for doing nothing. Before, you paid 500 in taxes, now you pay 0 - improvement for sure, but not the drastic change you have in your example. Depending on the details, it could be a big change or a small change.
dang.. i guess the $7,500 is already included in the lease promotion then... i knew something was up with a 3-year lease has a ~25% depreciation.. silly me.. now this deal seems worse than impossible..
bippie
Senior Member - 1K
posted: Oct. 1, 2012 @ 4:58a
Witold said: joedaddy123 said: Please tell me I am wrong, or I am going to lease this car tomorrow morning...
When you lease a vehicle you don't own that vehicle. The leasing company owns that vehicle. Consequently, you do not get a tax credit for purchasing the vehicle.
True, yet in Illinois (and maybe other states) they require us to pay the sales tax on the full purchase price of the car when leasing. I guess they use the logic that the leasing company purchases the car and someone must pay the sales tax....
Joe2836
Member
posted: Oct. 1, 2012 @ 6:58a
Thanks
Mickie3
Ancient Member
posted: Oct. 1, 2012 @ 7:23a
kshell said: clearanceman said: rsuaver said: If I have to charge it at home (assuming less than 30 miles r/t commute), how much would I spend on electricity? If I had a free charger at work, it would be great, as I would not have to charge it at home, but it's not the case for me.
Depends on your rate for electricity. However, it's generally much cheaper than the cost of gasoline.You need to drive more than 30 miles from time to time to use and refresh the gasoline in the tank; otherwise, it'll go bad. The cost for that repair will be more than the cost for few gallons a month for gas.
Its not all that bad, although I would run the tank mostly empty once every 6 months or so. (Just throw a couple of tbsps. or so of Stabil in the tank when you fill up and you are good for 6 months or so.) I use that mixture at home now and seems to work just fine in gas devices (tractors, lawn devices, generators, etc.)
peas
Thrifty Member
posted: Oct. 1, 2012 @ 9:08a
ClearanceItem said: Count me as one more FW member fed-up with the faux praise of this travesty of an automobile.
The Volt is powered by one thing: snake oil.
They were lighting on fire; GM recalled all of them. Not exaggerating. Again, they were lighting on fire. GM recalled all of them.
Politics aside, it is a symbol of disastrous failure. But politics can't be set aside when you choose to drive one. Lack of reading comprehension + sensationalist journalism = tinfoil hatters. The issue occurred after the car was flipped - CNN said: The fires, which happned one to three weeks after the crash tests, were sparked after the cars had been slowly rotated as part of a post-test procedure causing the coolant to come into contact with circuit boards.Flip any gas car like that and it's gonna have problems. Heck if you continue driving a car that's been in an accident and flipped, you've got more serious problems to worry about. People easily forget how volatile gasoline is, that there are many more gasoline car fires. Recalls happen with every make & model vehicle but I guess people will read whatever they want into news stories. And please keep politics out of deal discussions.
skarydrunkguy
Dismembered Member
posted: Oct. 1, 2012 @ 10:21a
yeah, $0 down if you trade it a new car for $8k value which covers the down payment and knocks $$ off your monthly, or use up a ton of GM card credit...
This is not a "true" $0 down and cheap monthly payment lease.
faw169
Senior Member
posted: Oct. 1, 2012 @ 10:34a
With potential $200-300 per month savings on gas (minus electricity bill), you could actually make money on this deal, only if you can find it. Carpool lane and bragging for being green are plus.
WorkerAnt
Broke Member
posted: Oct. 1, 2012 @ 10:47a
saladdin said: Legit question here. Is getting access to the car pool lane that much of a big deal? I ask because I don't live in CA and curious.
I was there, yes it is a "big deal". Most slow drivers in CA like to spread out to take up all the lanes. So everyone are crawling. The car pool lane is about 10mph faster... usually. IMO it's faster cause there are less slow drivers.
Anyway, our road setup encourage slow drivers. Faster is wrong, slower is right. Slow driver should really go back to horse riding, max speed 30mph.
peas
Thrifty Member
posted: Oct. 1, 2012 @ 10:47a
joedaddy123 said: 2013 CHEVROLET VOLT Chevrolet National Lease Offers Example based on survey. Each dealer sets own price. Your payments may vary. Payments are for a 2013 CHEVROLET Volt with an MSRP of $39,995. 36 monthly payments total $10,764. Option to purchase at lease end for an amount to be determined at lease signing. plus $350 or turn in vehicle and pay $395 termination fee. Lessor must approve lease. Take delivery by 10-31-2012. Mileage charge of $0.25/mile over 36,000 miles. Lessee pays for maintenance, repair and excess wear. Payments may be higher in some states. Not available with other offers. Residency restrictions apply. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ so here is my math...
$10,764 + $1,529 total payments for 3 years.. -$7,500 federal tax credit (i pay above this amount for my federal taxes and I don't itemize my deductions) = $4,793 total money of out my pocket..?! that's $133/month... which sounds way too good to be true.. Please tell me I am wrong, or I am going to lease this car tomorrow morning...
P.S. I know there's a TTL.. but I can't see it adding that much $$$ to my bottom line..With a lease, the dealer gets the tax credit because they own the car. You can't take the tax credit if you don't have ownership of the vehicle. The tax credit is one reason why dealers are pushing leases. It's easy money for them and less upfront cost for customers.
clearanceman
Senior Member - 10K
posted: Oct. 1, 2012 @ 1:08p
It's probably a fake story to make Volt sales look more successful than they are. Anything is possible in an election year. It's not called the silly season for nothing.
mpattdu
Senior Member
posted: Oct. 1, 2012 @ 1:19p
faw169 said: With potential $200-300 per month savings on gas (minus electricity bill), you could actually make money on this deal, only if you can find it. Carpool lane and bragging for being green are plus.
I don't think that's a reasonable expectation for most drivers given the Volt's 35 mile range. Maybe if you're giving up the Hummer.
clearanceman
Senior Member - 10K
posted: Oct. 2, 2012 @ 10:00a
Yeah, if you're saving that much gas, you are way over the mileage limits on the lease.
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