Purchasing a gun the FW way

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My wife and I are looking to purchase a gun and the recent deal on the Walther P22 struck my interest enough to actually dare to ask the question.

I have not really used any firearm since I was a teenager in Boy Scouts (about 15 years ago), and my wife is less experienced than me. My wife has a concern about our right to bear arms and wants to buy a gun without the government knowledge. (Potentially have a family member buy the gun for us and we buy from them.) Personally I don't think they are that concerned about citizens like us with guns, and if we get a concealed weapons permit (very probable) it's not like it's going to be a secret anyway.

I'm thinking a 22LR pistol and a shotgun. I know the pistol isn't a big one, but I've read for home safety they are the best because you get less recoil with them and more accuracy in a tense situation which makes them better for home defense. Also I'm more concerned about the cost of ammo than I am about the gun and will be able to financially fire more rounds through a 22LR than a 9mm. (Not that you can actually buy ammo right now.)

This website list a couple of players in the competition pistols that interest me. I've found that everyone loves their Mark III's. They are a bit on the pricey side, and it sounds like they are too hard to dissemble. A local gun store has the Buckmark for $300. The Baretta Neos from buds has caught my eye. I've heard the trigger isn't that nice on them, but it might be a great start for me. I live in Oregon. Anyone have an estimate on how much the FFL/Shipping/Background check will add onto buds cost? I've heard that Cabellas sells the Neos for $270 but it's a good 2 hr drive for me.

For shotgun, I'm thinking 20 gauge? It has more than enough power for me, and ammo is cheaper than the 12? WalMart has some decent pump guns for cheap. I definitely want pump for the sound effects if I need it for personal safety. This will eventually be used for hunting.

I am willing to buy used, but live in central Oregon and the next gun show isn't until the end of the year.

Also I have a major concern about my kids. I live in an 850sqft apartment with two toddlers aged 18mo and 3. I will need someway to keep it away from them. I plan on getting a safe before a gun. Getting the right safe is important to me because about 5 years ago my brothers friend broke into my Dads house, grabbed a grinder and eventually got through his safe. Stole the shotgun, ran to his girlfriends house, police came and killed the kid.

Where is the best place to get a good safe? What will I be looking for in a good gun safe? Recommendations? Price range? Any other child/gun advice would be greatly appreciated as it's my biggest concern.

Also please note that our we are not rich folk and cannot afford the beautiful guns that a lot of our peers here at FWF will be able to consider.

Lastly please keep this on topic. This is something that I am sincerely interested in and do not want this thread locked because someone isn't respectful to the topic.

Any advice is appreciated.

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This is incredibly irresponsible. There isn't a single 5 year-old alive on the planet who is sufficiently mature to han... (more)

lousygolfer (Feb. 06, 2013 @ 11:02a) |

Sorry for trying to crack a joke. Thanks for everyone's advice anyway! This is an important topic for me and has changed... (more)

Table83 (Feb. 06, 2013 @ 3:14p) |

And you're completely certain no-one will be harmed, right? Got Drano? Matches locked up? Hammers put away? Forks go... (more)

Rax (Feb. 10, 2013 @ 11:25a) |


buying without government knowledge depends on your state and the secondary market, if you find a gun show with private sellers, you can typically buy with little or no paperwork, usually a generic bill of sale, just stating your not a felon for the sellers records only.

22LR for home defense is not ideal, especially for a novice, while it's popular with professional assassins for many reasons, for someones wife wanting to STOP a bad situation, this would not be my choice.

you are correct on recoil, but the same can be said for a large frame 9mm. the 22 ruger would be a great trainer, for you and the wife to learn your way around it, but for home defense, grab a cheap hi-point 9mm with some hollow points, they are big and ugly, but they work.

check your local gun ranges for demo units, so you can try the different platforms, and possibly a gun safety course for the 2 of you

First thing, it is illegal for someone to buy a gun for you and ultimately not necessary. The secondary market for common sense guns right now is completely stupid right now with people buying up everything they can get their hands on and even buying out stores of .22 ammo. If you buy right now you likely pay a premium though shop wisely and you should be good. Start at www.armslist.com This is a local marketplace for FTF face to face deals. No paperwork filed though person will likely ask for bill of sale but nothing is filed. They just keep it in case the gun is later used in a crime and traced back to them. Your shot gun is all you need for home defense, unless you are going to have it under your pillow or on your night stand. If you have to get to safe to grab a gun, it will be the boom stick.
Shotgun, you can get something like a Maverick 20 inch barrel personal protection shotgun for around $200 brand new, super short, point and pull. It has no hunting applications though. Potentially want to hunt then grab something like a Remington 870. What you would ideally want is a combo where you have a short "turkey or deer barrel" 24 inches or so for home defense and a regular field barrel, normally 26 -28 inches for bird, rabbit, squirrel what have you but even just one longer barrel would be fine. Other options for a good pump gun incl: Mossberg, Stoeger but most you really can't go wrong with. It's a simple proven design and most will function flawlessly so find something you like in your price point, ideally with removable chokes. Chokes control the pattern of the gun so removable chokes means more options for more applications.
Most importantly, if you are new to guns, take a safety course, and get out and shoot the thing, get use to it. Go shoot some clay pigeons, have someone take you hunting and if you don't know somebody then find a place that does "put and take" hunts. You pay for pheasant, quail, or chukar to be put out in a field and they guide you on a hunt for about $100 it's a pretty day and they taste wonderful. Then introduce someone else to shooting or hunting. It's a lot of fun and the only way to protect our heritage. Good luck.

Wouldn't worry about staying under the radar with your gun purchase. With hundreds of millions of guns in private homes in this country, they (gov't) are not going to worry about YOUR gun. As another poster stated, take a safety course, go to a range where you can rent guns and buy something that you are comfortable shooting. Lastly, enjoy your right to keep and bear arms.

Do yourself a huge favor and don't buy a gun based only on internet reviews. You should go to a range that allows you to rent guns, and try shooting them with you and your wife. You should each like the feel of the gun before you buy. No internet review can answer that question for you.

For a real safe; Read this. This will give you the best advice, because ultimately you don't just want a metal locker; you want a safe. Also, please go with your wife to a gun safety class as you can never be too educated about guns. If you are spending under $500, chances are you are not quality safe.

As far as kids go, keep the safe in a closet, and replace the doorknob with a deadbolt. That should more than suffice for now.

For the shotgun I can recommend the Remington 870 20 gauge youth model, considering that your wife will be able to handle it better than a 12 gauge. Ours is loaded with #3 buck in the house, and makes an excellent dove gun outside. I consider locking a home defense gun in a safe to be totally useless. Join the NRA (gets you insurance for your guns too). Training your kids about firearms can start as soon as they can understand responsibility. My 5 year old granddaughter has her own 22 rifle (uses under strict supervision). The parents attitude toward firearms will be reflected in their children. My opinion is that if they can reach it, they should know how to use it.

The cost of the background check should be included in the FFL transfer when you purchase a weapon from Buds and have it transfered to a FFL holder in your area. As to what those fees are, there is a link on Buds website that has their "approved" FFL's that will transfer a weapon for you. Just click on thelink and they will ask for the zip code and then will present you with the list in your area. IF they have the FFL holder on their list Buds already has a copy of their FFL on file and it is as simple as ordering/paying Buds for the weapon, calling the local FFL holder and letting them know your are ordering from Buds and usually the local FFL holder will call when the weapon arrinve. The cost of the shipping is usually included in the posted price on Buds, but not always..just read the site and it will state shipping included or not.

As others have stated please take a gun safety course and keep the guns locked away from the kids.

I've had great success with gunbroker.com. Also check Gander Mountain, their customer care is quite helpful and informative, they even did the chekcing for me on my last long rifle purchase here in NY to make sure it was compliant.

Table83 said:   
I have not really used any weapon since I was a teenager in Boy Scouts (about 15 years ago)


Minor Nit, but a "weapon" is some object you use to assault someone with.

You probably mean firearm

Research your local city/state gun laws. What the media won't tell you is that they vary by state and also usually by city. It's a really convoluted mess with local politicians and police department doing whatever they feel like :-P

When your kids are old enough, teach them not to touch guns when they see them, then the safety rules when they get old enough so that they treat firearms w/ respect because they can be dangerous (no different than teaching them not to cut their hands off w/ power tools).

I would actually recommend a Mossberg 500 shotgun. The model I have has a short 18.5 inch barrel for home defense and a easily swapped out longer barrel for occcausional pheasant hunting. You might be able to find LE trade in s as they are used by many police and sheriff's departments.

For the pistol a 9mm, as others have recommended (I prefer Glock myself) or have you considered a revolver in .357 Magnum? They're mechanically simpler, robust and a .357 will also accept .38 rounds for cheaper practice and better control for your wife.

Lastly I'll jump on the bandwagon and recommend a basic safety and perhaps a marksmanship course for both you and the wife.

Minor nit, a 'weapon' is an object or item that when used in its intended manner will likely cause death, including long knives and firearms. So, whether you use it to assault (or more likely battery) someone, if its intended use includes causing death, it is a weapon. Granted, that makes my chef's knife a weapon in some jurisdictions, I assume.

Having said that, buying something when everyone else is panicing and buying it is a bad idea.
Buying a gun because you're afraid they'll be banned, and not because you really want a gun, is a bad idea.
Buying a firearm because you want one and have figured out how to keep it safe with your kids around is fine, but I'd wait for the manufactured panic to end first.

There are many types of gun safes. Almost all of them can be breached without too much effort unless you move up significantly in price.

Whatever you buy, whenever you buy it, if you buy it, make sure you budget enough to take it to the range regularly.

I have a Ruger sr22 and I love it. It is very similar to the Walther. My only problem at the moment is trying to find .22lr ammo....

My father in law has the Walther. I have a Ruger sr22. We bought them just for using in target practice. We are both happy with the guns, but I like the Ruger a little better. One thing to remember though is there is a serious shortage of ammo going on. If you don't already have any .22lr sitting around the house then I wouldn't expect to be able to shoot it any time soon.

Just get a permit to purchase.. No need for all that illegal crap. Apply for one through your local PD.

I would recommend a 12 gauge. I bought a 9mm for a home defense weapon initially, really wish I would've just bought a 12GA shotgun.

Stay away from that tiny caliber for a home defense round. Get a .357 or .45. The guy above me has the right mindset.. a .357Mag revolver.

Do a quick search to see if there's a gun forum specific for your state. You might find someone there who will let you borrow the ones you're considering to see if you like them first.

My preferred "home defense" firearm is my 10 gauge magnum goose gun. I really don't think you would ever have to fire it...I'd think most bad guys would run at the sight. And, if you did fire it indoors, I don't think you would have to worry about having to hit anything - although please be warned of probably serious hearing loss.

There's some good advice here, but its mixed in with "Bigger is better, get this,etc" which may not be a perfect fit for you. So consider this:

1) You're in 850sq ft apartment. A .22LR has a range of over a mile, and will punch through the walls to easily hit a neighbor, or worse, into the child's bedroom. A .22 is a non-starter for you.

2) Same for any of the large caliber pistols (9mm, .40, .357, .45, and so on). Even with hollow points, you'll be punching holes through drywall. See #1

3) I'd go with a shotgun. Very, very difficult to shoot yourself (speaking of you or your child) unintentionally. Smaller birdshot (7.5, 8, 9) and maybe in a whatever gauge you feel comfortable with (1st gun? 20ga is fine). Also much less likely for any mass amount of pellets to punch through two layers of drywall.

4)Afraid to get it stolen? Buy a cheap pawn shop pump shotgun.

5)Afraid to not be able to access it in a hurry? Buy thisinstead of a safe. Do NOT put one in the chamber, just in the tube (requiring a pump to fire)

6)Sold on the idea of a real safe? There's no reason you shouldn't, but I'd still keep some sort of backup (mace, etc) near it, in case you're chased down on the way to unlock your gun safe.

Good luck..!

One correction: It is NOT illegal to purchase a gun for someone else, unless you're doing so for the purpose of providing someone a firearm who wouldn't legally qualify to purchase one on their own.peacheefarm said:   First thing, it is illegal for someone to buy a gun for you and ultimately not necessary.[SNIP]

In a "tense situation", you won't notice recoil whatsoever.. Go with a 12 gauge for home defense. Nothing else comes close to the firepower and accuracy in a home invasion..

If you are inexperienced, buy a revolver. A revolver is 100 percent reliable vs. an auto.. A few people will say a high capacity 9mm, but the way I see it, If 5 or 6 .357 mags won't handle the situation, you need to be running.. A nice .357 mag will take care of any "tense situations" out there. Practice with lots of cheap .38s and a few .357s and keep it loaded with Buffalo bore ammo.

BTW I carry a LCR357 and love it...17 oz hand cannon..

I have a Walther P22 (got it for my wife), and a Ruger Mark II. Love them both, but is I had to choose one for my wife to shoot or for home defense, I would go with the walther. The Mark I, Mark II, and Mark III are all going to be much heavier than the Walther. The Ruger Mark III has a few new features over the Mark II, a coworker has both and prefers the Mark II over thew newer model. They all shoot great but the Walther will fit better in smaller hands, will be easier to shoot accurately due to the lighter weight and easier to carry concealed if you choose.

I would even consider using the walther for a concealed carry if all i wanted was a pistol to show I was armed.

Definitely go take a gun safety course and practice shooting several guns before you decide on what to get. It will be money well spent and good for you and your wife to do together.

Depending on your state I would not worry about buying a new gun from the store. My state does a background check on gun type (pistol or rifle) and then the only place the serial # is recorded is at the point of sale. The plus is you get a new gun that should function for a long time.

Best of luck to you.

This is off topic. Talk to someone you know about this, do not post in a forum.

Thanks for everyone's replies. It's been great reading. And I will look into taking a training course before we actually buy.

jerrymaynor said:   My preferred "home defense" firearm is my 10 gauge magnum goose gun. I really don't think you would ever have to fire it...I'd think most bad guys would run at the sight. And, if you did fire it indoors, I don't think you would have to worry about having to hit anything - although please be warned of probably serious hearing loss.

What I'm picking up here is that most FWers feel that spending extra money on ammo is worth the advantage of a bigger, heavier gun that shoots a bigger spread?

I just can't see a bad guy breaking into your house and saying, "Don't shoot me yet, let me look to see if you have the big 10 gauge and I'll consider whether I'm going to rob you or not. If you only have a 20 gauge I'm staying. Would you mind turning a light on so I can see which one you have?" Or that a small pistol will only slow a bad guy down it won't kill him? Playing a video game I understand why a bigger gun is better, but I'm really struggling with this concept, especially considering the cost of ammo right now. This cost dilemma is the reason why I posted here instead of a gun forum. Thoughts?

jwardl said:   One correction: It is NOT illegal to purchase a gun for someone else, unless you're doing so for the purpose of providing someone a firearm who wouldn't legally qualify to purchase one on their own.peacheefarm said:   First thing, it is illegal for someone to buy a gun for you and ultimately not necessary.[SNIP]

I should have clarified in the OP. I will not do anything illegal to obtain a gun. I currently work in a bank, and have had multiple extensive background searches done for different jobs over the years. I also am an upstanding taxpayer that does have a little bit of fear of my government.

That depends on the wall. I've shot .22LR's that didn't make it through a 2x2. Doubt it would make it through stucco. Agree that childrens' walls are a serious consideration. Home invaders won't be so considerate though.

For home defense you'd want hollow points, as they won't penetrate as far. You can also buy lower grain ammunition. There are lots of Youtube videos demonstrating what different ammunition will penetrate.

Also, Costco regularly has gun safes on sale. Can't vouch specifically, but they usually sell quality merchandise.

Interesting suggestion on birdshot w/shotgun. Not sure of stopping power though. Shotgun for home defense is a good suggestion. Anyone have any recommendations for semi-auto's? More concerned about multiple invaders than the threat value of a pump.

Logan71 said:   There's some good advice here, but its mixed in with "Bigger is better, get this,etc" which may not be a perfect fit for you. So consider this:

1) You're in 850sq ft apartment. A .22LR has a range of over a mile, and will punch through the walls to easily hit a neighbor, or worse, into the child's bedroom. A .22 is a non-starter for you.

2) Same for any of the large caliber pistols (9mm, .40, .357, .45, and so on). Even with hollow points, you'll be punching holes through drywall. See #1

3) I'd go with a shotgun. Very, very difficult to shoot yourself (speaking of you or your child) unintentionally. Smaller birdshot (7.5, 8, 9) and maybe in a whatever gauge you feel comfortable with (1st gun? 20ga is fine). Also much less likely for any mass amount of pellets to punch through two layers of drywall.

4)Afraid to get it stolen? Buy a cheap pawn shop pump shotgun.

5)Afraid to not be able to access it in a hurry? Buy thisinstead of a safe. Do NOT put one in the chamber, just in the tube (requiring a pump to fire)

6)Sold on the idea of a real safe? There's no reason you shouldn't, but I'd still keep some sort of backup (mace, etc) near it, in case you're chased down on the way to unlock your gun safe.

Good luck..!

IF your primary concern is home defense, so with a shotgun. There are a lot of good pointers so far but at the least to go a range, take a safety course and try some out. Maybe you know someone who owns a gun your interested in. Talk to them and maybe hit the range too see if you like it or not. As for safe's, I don't own one so I can't help you out there but you might ask at your local gun store. I know most guns purchased new have a trigger lock included which isn't the best option but it's only meant as a deterrence. I've seen some nice heavy duty safes for sale at costco for a decent price. Hope your find the right match!

local forum is http://northwestfirearms.com

you dont need any special permits or paperwork to buy a handgun as a private transaction face to face in Oregon.

A .22 IS NOT a home defense round. A .22 will not do ANYTHING to someone doped up on drugs. Hell a 9mm can take 20+ rounds to stop some drugged out adrenaline rushing crackhead. A 12 gauge pump is THE home defense gun to have. Loaded up with a couple 00 buck shells, then a couple slugs just in case you need that stopping power. Do not ever consider a .22 for personal defense. It is just too small. Pump over semi due to the sound alone could possibly stop an issue from happening in the first place. It is the general warning sound everyone recognizes instantly.

To add to that, it if it is strictly home defense and you will not hunt with it, get something with a short barrel and the ability to add a tactical light to it. You do not want to shoot anything in a dark home without getting a light on it. The light can also cause a flinch in the robber/attacker if you use a nice bright one.

A shotgun is fine for home defense. Slugs probably not. You would have a huge problem with overpenetration-a slug would go through a person, your drywall, a concrete block, and probably still have enough kinetic energy to kill someone.

Link to video of shotgun slug going through lots of stuff

Slugs are out for home defense, if over-penetration is a concern. Additionally, the primary virtue of a shotgun is the spread you get from firing a cloud of pellets. You give that up with slugs. 00 buck is the standard load for most people, but if you are concerned about thin walls, you could try a load of shot that is designed for large foul like geese. The smaller pellets will be less likely to go through walls etc but will still turn a home invader into hamburger.

The problem with a .22 is that it lacks enough kinetic energy to do much harm to an attacker. Its great for cheap target practice or for fun, but its not a serious self-defense round. A fundamental rule of gun safety is to never point a gun at something that you don't want to shoot and in a situation that is self-defense, shoot to kill. Having a .22 or a 20ga for "show" or to scare an attacker isn't a good policy. That's why so many of the posters are recommending some of the large calibers even though ammo will be more expensive.

Table83 said:   I am willing to buy used, but live in central Oregon and the next gun show isn't until the end of the year.http://www.northwestfirearms.com/forum.php#classifieds is open all year long, and you should be able to find almost anything you need there. I would stick with the old trusted weapons, like a Remington 870 or Mossberg 500. Revolvers are nice too, and more often that not are less expensive than semiautomatics. As others have said .22s are fun guns, but not protection guns. A 9mm should have readily available ammo, and is a good starter caliber.

Slugs in the back... My shotgun holds 7 shells, the first 4 are 00 buck. That video above is a special round, a normal 12 gauge slug doesn't have the power you're claiming. If my first 4 rounds of 00 buck do not stop the problem, you bet your butt the 3 slugs will. Obviously by then people are up and taking cover etc. You should be aware where your kids rooms are etc. If I've already fired 4 rounds of buck, chances are the issue is over, or more power is needed.

Wow there's a lot of misinformation in this thread. Anyways here's my contribution into the fray.

Depending on the state of your residence, you may or may not be able to purchase a firearm from another individual's private collection (e.g. non-FFL dealer) in a face to face transaction. Since you did not specify your resident state itís impossible for us to tell you "yes" or "no" on the legality of a face to face purchase in your situation. This is of course assuming you are not a "prohibited person" (look up a copy of form 4473 from the ATF's website and see if you fall under the prohibited person category, you'll notice it doesn't include JUST a criminal conviction). If you are a prohibited person, you are looking at a vacation at club fed for possession of a firearm. If the face to face sale is legal within your state, the buyer and seller MUST be residents of the same state that the transaction is taking place, anything other than that is considered an interstate transfer and thus illegal under existing federal laws. For your own protection, I would draft up a bill of sale and record only the sellerís name and driverís license # (the DL# also allows you to see what state issued their DL and thus ensure they are residents of the same state as you). Some sellers will not agree to providing you this information on paper, in that case just get their name and ask to see a DL to make sure they are residents of the same state as you, you can write their name down on a piece of paper later for your own record if you want to. If you decide to purchase a firearm from a private individual, for your own safety meet at a public location (e.g. Wal-Mart parking lots are great) and do not produce any cash until you have handled the firearm and verified that it is what you want (appearance, function, etc.). There are countless YouTube videos that show you what to look for when purchasing various types of firearms (revolvers, semi-auto handguns, shotguns, etc.) and how to perform a function check to ensure everything is functioning as it should.

Depending on your price range (seems like you are in the $250-$350 range), you are looking at most likely a .380 semi-auto handgun, 9mm semi-auto handgun, used .38 special revolver, or a shotgun like a maverick 88. It is not a good idea for us to recommend to you a specific firearm for your needs because everyone is different, depending on your body size, hand size, tolerance to recoil, etc. It will greatly change the best firearm for your home use. The only way you can know for sure what your personal preference is would be to find a gun shop in your local area with a rental range so you and your wife can try the various handguns to see which one suits you best (recoil, grip, control, etc.). If there are no gun shops in the area with a range, look for public shooting ranges or clubs and see if they have someone help you try out some various handguns.

There is no escaping the laws of physics when it comes to penetration. If you want low penetration into walls, you will want a slower projectile (heavier bullet or less gun powder in the shell), which equates to lower recoil but also equates to lower penetration into the bad guy. So instead of a wound that penetrates into the internal organs (e.g. heart, lungs, pelvic area, etc.) that would stop an attack instantly you will have only dealt a nasty shallow wound. If the attacker is still intent on carrying out their attack, they will have been only slowed down by the wound instead of stopped dead in their tracks. For example, bird shot will cause a grievous but shallow wound, but a buck shot will penetrate deeply enough to penetrate into the internal organs and cause instant massive shock and blood loss. As for handguns, in the calibers I listed in your price range (.380, 9mm, .38) you will want hollow point bullets so that they deliver all of their kinetic energy upon impact and have adequate penetration into the internal organs. Full metal jacket (FMJ) ammunition in those calibers could penetrate through the attacker and thus not deliver all of their energy into the attacker upon impact.

You mentioned that you live in an 850 sq. ft. apartment; most likely you do not have long hallways within the apartment where a shotgun pattern would be to your benefit. In a true self-defense situation, you will be under a great deal of stress, you don't want to have a firearm with a lot of levers and buttons to push before it can fire because you could forget to undo all the safety features before you had to use it. A semi-auto handgun can be sensitive to "limp wristing" where the grasp of the gun is not tight enough during firing, causing the slide of the gun to cycle improperly and resulting in an empty cartridge not ejecting all the way (stove piping) and preventing the cycling of the next round into the chamber to fire (jam). If you want something that is fool proof and dead reliable (pull the trigger and it goes bang), itís hard to beat a revolver as it is not sensitive to limp wristing or have these extra "safety doo-dads" that will slow you down when you actually have to use it. The down side is that it is not quick to reload (compared to a magazine change on a semi-auto) and your capacity is limited (5 or 6 rounds of .38 special). In your particular case (new firearm owner), I would recommend a revolver (Used Ruger or used S&W are good), if you only keep it in the house you can look at a K (med), L (med-large), or N (large) frame sized revolver, keep in mind the larger the frame size the heavier the gun but the less recoil you will feel (itís all a bunch of tradeoffs). If you intend to carry the firearm on your person as a CCW, a J frame or a K frame is perfect for women (holster or purse) and men (holster or pocket). Most women's pants pockets are smaller than men's, pants are also more fitting on women, so a pocket carry may not be as suitable on a woman. I do not usually recommend .357 magnum revolvers for first time gun owners as the recoil can be a bit too much for first time shooters. Most modern .38 special revolvers will be fine with occasional use of the .38+P (slightly more stout round in the same caliber but still less recoil than a .357 magnum, check the barrel to
make sure it is marked .38+P first) should you decide you need more than a standard .38 special to do the job.
Now letís address the penetration concern. Regardless of the ammunition (except bird shot but I already do not recommend it as it doesn't do a good job at stopping someone quickly), you will have penetration concerns especially with drywall. The best idea I have for you is to put a book case either on the sides of the wall where your family sleeps or the opposite wall, put some magazines, hard backs, paperbacks, dictionaries, cook books, color books, etc. on the shelves. The books on the shelves will do an excellent job of reducing penetration or preventing over penetration while serving a purpose to keep your house neat (who doesnít like to have a bookshelf full of books?).

The decision to keep a firearm for the protection of your family is a very personal decision and requires a lot of choices that are not ďone size fits allĒ. I would highly recommend that you find someone who is willing to give you some pointers (most firearms owners love to introduce others to the joy of target shooting, practical shooting, etc.) and try a few models before you decide.

Good luck!

Edit: Sorry I just noticed you mentioned you are in Oregon, just check your state laws to make sure a in-state private transaction is ok.

Sorry, didn't notice that you said you are in Oregon.

No cops carry .22's... There is a reason for this. Practice is the key here.

I second armslist - then again I dont like to buy brand new things at full retail. Local FTF is ideal for gun transactions due to the red tape of mailing/interstate. Look into local gun shows.

If you're brand new to the hobby, you should consider renting some different models or going shooting with a friend to try theirs.

robrath said:   Now letís address the penetration concern.

I jumped on a deal a couple months ago and don't have penetration problems anymore.
http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/hot-deals/1248839/

just plain dumb. i have no more to say.
ignore this guy guys..

JOIN http://www.northwestfirearms.com .

Don't just lurk.

There will be a wealth of inforamtion, and helpful people.

Also, FTF transactions are much safer between members. When members are involved deals are often conducted at someone's home. MUCH safer and wiser than Craig's List.

Deals conducted in McDonald's and WalMart Parking Lots are very likely to generate a 911 Call from some "Concerned Citizen". With awkward results.

If you want to browse firearms and prices, BudsGunShop.com is useful.

I buy local when I can, but I always check prices at Bud's first to make certain I'm not overpaying.

Skipping 4 Messages...
lousygolfer said:   
This is incredibly irresponsible. There isn't a single 5 year-old alive on the planet who is sufficiently mature to handle a firearm, regardless of the level of adult supervision...

I started teaching my daughter how to use a rifle when she was 5-6. After seeing the damage it could do, she gained a great respect for it, and does to this day. Not all kids are slow with substandard intelligence.

I don't have any sort of firearm in my house...
And you're completely certain no-one will be harmed, right? Got Drano? Matches locked up? Hammers put away? Forks got safety tines? Outlets plugged? If not, quote "This is incredibly irresponsible." unquote.



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