I put up an auction for the spamkiller software and they had it removed for copyright violation. I emailed them but they won't tell me why the auction was removed. Typical. Meanwhile stupid eBay says my account may be suspended if I do it again. Do what again?
I titled my auction Mcafee Spamkiller 4. Other than that and the photo of the item (taken myself) there were no references to Mcafee. I didn't even describe the item other than saying it was new software in retail box. I figure people bidding know what it is. How can I auction the spamkiller software if I don't say what it is? Am I supposed to say I'm selling a Canon digital camera?
Senior Member - 3K
posted: Jul. 19, 2003 @ 1:45p
did you use any information taken from mcaffe. Like features, requirements, etc. If not, you can sell it if you want to. Just put a "*" and say that mcaffe is a trademark, blah, blah, blah. eBay can still remove it if they want to. It's their site.
Senior Member - 6K
posted: Jul. 19, 2003 @ 1:54p
that makes no sense. i see auctions all the time with name brands (how can you sell something w/o it). maybe they think it is an illegal copy, e-bay does have policies about selling software. maybe you should e-mail/call them back.
posted: Jul. 19, 2003 @ 1:59p
McAfee has been doing this for years, There are other threads here about this, They even have an employee Chris whose job it is to shut down eBay auctions. If mcAfee asks, then eBay must obey by federal law! They don't have to explain. Clearly it is to stifle cheap competion to their high retail price, but there is absolutely nothing you can do, There are threads about this on eBay safe harbor forum too! Just search that forum for the word Vero.
Moral fo the story....never ever get McAfee software with the intention to resell it. Maybe, never, ever get it period!
BTW, Norton and Microsoft rarely do this underhanded stuff!
Senior Member - 3K
posted: Jul. 19, 2003 @ 2:07p
sloppy is right. there are other companies that do this too. Can't remember them but I know there are some clothes companies that will try to shut down all auctions saying people are selling fake products even if they are real. Not much you can do about. eBay doesn't have to shut them down but it is easier to just comply with all of the companies complaints than spend money investigating on whether they are genuine products or not, or spending money fighting the companies in court.
Senior Member - 2K
posted: Jul. 19, 2003 @ 2:49p
"If mcAfee asks, then eBay must obey by federal law!"
That isn't true. If they're invoking the DMCA (which is most likely), then they can claim a DMCA copyright violation. However, the hosting entity (in this case Ebay) is supposed to allow the seller a chance to send a DMCA response saying that they will take responsibility for the auction and to delegate jurisdiction to a US District Court in the area where either the copyright holder or the "violator" lives.
Senior Member - 2K
posted: Jul. 19, 2003 @ 3:53p
>"BTW, Norton and Microsoft rarely do this underhanded stuff! "
Before someone else jumps on this statement, you need to clarify it.
Norton AND Microsoft ROUTINELY shut down auctions under the ePay VeRO program.
However, their shut downs are inline with law and licencing agreements. They only shut down auctions where OEM or Student software (or other special software) is being offered to the general public without hardware or proof of student status/etc.. If you have full retail boxed products with holograms, licence keys, etc.. they won't shut you down, unlike McAffee which does.
However McAffee is just joining the ranks of others like Dell who are now routinely shutting down auctions for copying text or images from web pages or computer manuals (RE)selling their products.
This has NOTHING directly to do with DMCA... It's ePay's own internal Verified Rights Owner program where any company can claim that others are in violation of WHATEVER TERMS the company decides, and ePay will shut the auction down immediately. It is GUILTY until proven innocent.
I had bought an Apex DVD player a couple years ago and then upgraded to a Daewoo (No, not the infamous ones with macrovision disabling/etc..) Tried to sell it. Philips corporation told ePay to cancel my auction. Said it was illegal to sell Apex units in America since they were in violation of some $1.10 licencing agreement with Philips. Yeah.. that's ALL it was. ALL at the same time I could go to Sears, Circuit City, Best Buy, K-Mart AND Wal-Mart and buy the EXACT SAME PLAYER legally. Yet Philips refused to let you sell Apex Players on ePay between November 2001 and April 2002 until they settled with Apex for not paying them $1.10 per player. THAT'S HOW screwed up the ePay VeRO program is.
posted: Jul. 19, 2003 @ 4:50p
Mcafee needs to employ Chris to send out rebate checks from almost 4 months ago instead of stopping auctions in a retail box.
Senior Member - 3K
posted: Jul. 19, 2003 @ 5:47p
Yea Chris firstname.lastname@example.org
That's the guy who won't respond to why your auction was removed.
Just to be clear on my auction, I used "Mcafee Spamkiller 4" in the auction title, nothing much in the description, probably repeated that. Also took my own photo of the item. So, they got me on one or the other. It was sealed in retail box. Interestingly, I've done several of these before without a problem. Never included a picture in those.
Senior Member - 4K
posted: Jul. 19, 2003 @ 8:07p
Kirk, here's the problem. eBay's VeRO program is horrible on so many levels.
(1) As said above, despite the questionable legalities, eBay will jump through hoops for any big corporation. This leads to the next problem.
(2) eBay does not even take the care to evaluate the VeRO complaint. Obviously, your auction is not a VeRO problem. But McAfee said it was. Therefore, eBay says "okey dokey" and shuts down your auction. When you complain to eBay, they pretend to not hear you - and absurdly tell you to contact the very company which made the complaint.
(3) There may not even be a complaint. You heard me! eBay has automated a lot of VeRO take-downs. McAfee may have complained enough that certain auctions are automatically taken down. eBay then claims there is a complaint, even there may not actually be one. There was a newstory recently about a guy who kept having auctions for his own music taken down. eBay insisted there was a complaint. Was there one? Nope. It was their automated system which just assumed that someone "might" complain.
Senior Member - 9K
posted: Jul. 19, 2003 @ 8:07p
add Sony to your list of c-suckers.
Senior Member - 3K
posted: Jul. 19, 2003 @ 9:29p
They don't even bother to have a human look at the auction listing, it's just some lame keyword search program that finds the results then reports it to eBay. You'd think with all the outrageous fees on eBay they could at least have a human double check things before doing something about it, but nope, eBay is all about maximizing their profits.
posted: Jul. 19, 2003 @ 9:54p
Network Associates pulled my listing about a month ago, had a copy of McAfee Virusscan and tried to post it. Item was brand new, retail box, UPC intact, etc, and they pulled with no reason. Simply stated it violated the VERO clause. I've been emailing eBay about it and you can file a counter claim. Reply to the VERO violation email with the subject line of "Counter-Notice Request". They will send you a form, which you must sign to counter the claim. I would NOT recommend reposting the item. If you do, it will get you suspended for too many VERO violations.
That email@example.com email address will get you no answers. I emailed this person for weeks, every day, with no response. I think eBay is a great forum for selling and buying items, BUT I think they will get a wakeup call at some point with a large lawsuit. You can't continue to practice business like an ostrich with your head in hole.
Senior Member - 1K
posted: Jul. 20, 2003 @ 1:41a
Interesting enough eBay has the exact item - exact title up for bid now. Along with a photo.
Senior Member - 9K
posted: Jul. 20, 2003 @ 2:30a
I have had auctions pulled and I'm 99% certain a competitor reported me.
posted: Jul. 20, 2003 @ 11:09a
Don't Repost McAfee Software on eBay. I did comply with NEW Retail Box with UPC intact and MY OWN AD nothing copied and I was BANNED from eBay for a week. Had to say how sorry I was for doing something wrong (didn't know what it was). Asked for an explanation from eBay and that Chris guy, but no response. I agree, McAfee is a bad company to deal with and eBay is gonna get themselves a lawsuite soon and people are gonna leave for auction sites that don't charge those outragous fees...they will price themselves out of the market at their current rate. They are peaking now and trying to get every penny they can. It won't last especially with their poor customer policies.
Senior Member - 2K
posted: Jul. 21, 2003 @ 10:35a
> "I would NOT recommend reposting the item. If you do, it will get you suspended for too many VERO violations. "
Technically, you will be permanetly suspended if you relist the same (type of) item you were previously suspended on NO MATTER HOW LONG. (e.g. I was VeRO'd on the Apex dvd player do to Apex's spat with Philips. Lets say now that Sony gets into a spat with Apex, and I list another Apex player and Sony VeRO's it now.... I will be permanently suspended as I have 2 VeRO's on "APEX DVD" even though the previous one was 2 years ago)
You can have multiple VeRO shut downs if on different products, but there is a limit.. no one knows if it's 5, 10, 20, etc...
If you are a Power Seller however, you can have virtually unlimited VeRO's without worrying about suspension. That's the sad part. ANd the sadder part is, as CrazyTree stated... often time it's power sellers turning in non-power sellers to stifle competition, even if there is nothing wrong with the competitions auction.
Senior Member - 10K
posted: Jul. 21, 2003 @ 11:11a
If you use a manf's photo they can shut your auction down. Take your own photo.
posted: Jul. 21, 2003 @ 10:39p
where else but ebay,
was a site called haggle something ....
is that still around ??
posted: Sep. 29, 2003 @ 4:50p
Subject: RE: VeRO NOTICE: eBay Listing(s) Removed - VeRO Program From: <Shawn_Stephenson@NAI.com>
Once the End User License Agreement (EULA) is accepted, which was done in removing the UPC seal from the box, the license is non-transferable. This means that any attempt to sell the software is distribution of intellectual property without license and is a violation of both the EULA and US copyright law punishable by up to $150,000 per incident.
posted: Sep. 29, 2003 @ 5:16p
I just got the same thing from half.com for trying to sell a McAfee software. Original software, but it was a pretty old one and I was only selling it for like 5 bucks!! It was listed for a couple of months before I got the email from half.com saying how the listing was removed due to violation of the Vero stuff, blahblah. However, I successfully sold a Norton software without any problems. So I guess if you are very lucky, you might have a successful transaction. Or it could be that McAfee stepped up their vero enforcement. (maybe hired more employee to monitor auction sites online?)
posted: Sep. 29, 2003 @ 7:43p
I didn't realize that removing the UPC code was considered acceptance of the EULA! Why not just say opening or damaging the box certifies acceptance - and cut out the accept/deny dialog box in the install process.
Why stop here at UPC cutting? It could be stretched to as soon as you pay for the software in store, you are accepting the EULA as soon as you buy the software.
Crazy. I've had legit copies of NAV or McAfee through the years given free after rebate deals - but crap like that just makes you want to not deal with that work and just borrow someone's copy to install and not deal with the rebates.
posted: Sep. 29, 2003 @ 11:25p
I had a problem this summer with McAfee VERO, as well. They claimed that I was selling my product without UPC, however, I was selling brand new retail product. I even but in my auction in bold letters, "Attention eBay: This auction contains the UPC, and as such, meets your VERO requirements here (I added a link)."
You guessed it--my auctions were pulled, anyway. I concur that the e-mail address they gave us to voice complaints is probably DOA--I never got any response or acknowledgement.
posted: Sep. 30, 2003 @ 7:27a
<< Why stop here at UPC cutting? It could be stretched to as soon as you pay for the software in store, you are accepting the EULA as soon as you buy the software. >>
Why stop there? You were born and accepted the EULAs of this world. :-|
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