count26,

looks like the auto you want is pretty popular so you may not get as much off. but good luck and come back tell us the outcome.

Ask about the low end pilots first. Get the dealer to think you're shopping cheap. Then after awhile, hit him with the deluxe model and tell him, "its really nice, but a just alittle out of you range... what kind of deal can you do?"

That got them when I was shopping for my Mustang and got a good deal on a GT instead of a V-6.

Good Luck

Count26 said:I've tried the playing i want the cheapest model and then ask about the upper end models to get a discount. I've also tried "can you beat that deal." I think what I need to do now is play walkaway at the dealer that gives me the lowest deal until they give in to what i want. I think if I spend like over 10 hours say like 2-3 hours per visit and I do like 3 or 4 visits, making them spend a major amount of time and effort on me, which means they have to break me a deal. Do you guys see where I'm going with this?

btw for the naysayers. My friend recently bought a EX-L Pilot w/DVD, running boards, crossbars, cargo net, and wheel locks for 29,100. I tried going there to get a similar deal but they didnt have my color plus they lied to me. I was told 29,800 over the phone which i was almost ok with but when i came in they did a switch-o-roo on me had another salesman come over with a price of 34,000. I was kinda of upset by the way they decieved me.the new salesman didn't know that you have spoken with another so that's why he said $34k hoping to work it down a couple of ks. you should have laughed at him and told him that he's cheating you out of $4k+ for commission and ask for the one you spoke to on the phone.

that's what i did with the purchase of an old acura legend. my hubby and i went on a sunday and scope out everything they had in the lot (new and used). we settled on a used legend with sticker price of $14,200. we called the next morning and got the salesman to agree to $12,600 total drive out. we came back really late in the evening to look at the car but didn't ask for the salesman we spoke to. well, another one came out because he saw us looking at the legend and told us that legend is discounted to $13,700 if we were to buy today. we looked at each other and cracked out laughing and told him to get "david" because "david" already sold us the car for $12,600 total drive out. of course, this salesman walked off with shame and got "david" for us.

since then, we bought 2 more brand new autos (2002 acura 3.5rl - sticker price $43,600 - drove out $36,000; 2004 nissan maxima 3.5 se - sticker price $33,200 - drove out $30,000 - finance through them for 0.9%) by negotiating to the phone (settled on drive out price) and go there to do paperworks and drove out with our cars. no more wasting time/money going from dealers to dealers and get jerked around with crooked salespeople.

be serious and willing to stick to the price you can pay/afford and of course, this will work really well if you've got great credit ratings.

This is so funny to me. When I was a salesman and finance manager we practiced how to over come all these so called "tactics" I'm reading here. Confidence is your biggest asset! If you dont believe you are going to pay invoice they will smell your fear like a pack of wild dogs. The car business is hurting right now. Dealers are happy with their "holdback". Its the salesman that are starving. STOP NEGOTIATING WITH THE SALESMAN! Its a fact that the average car salesman only sales 8-10 cars per month. Its also a fact that a "flat", the money a salesman is going to make on a new car sales with no profit(invoice) is $50-$100. So do the math thats only $800-$1000 in commission per month. Thats why dealer are always hiring salesman. Its also why salesman are constantly getting fired.
GET THE SALESMAN ON YOUR SIDE! Tell him up front he's not gonna make any money on you, this will be an invoice deal. Tell him you'll slip him a $100 after the deal if you get your price. So when he goes up to the "salesdesk", he's fighting for you. When the salesman comes back to you with numbers on the paper, they call it an "a" sheet. Cross it out with a big "X", flip it over right your number on the back, next to it write "T/T out the door", then underline it. The first number you write should be at least $2000k below invoice. His manager will either send someone over or come his self. This is a good sign it shows that you werent talking to a "closer". He might even write a note, asking where r you getting your numbers. If this happends, write "I was thinking the same thing about you numbers".
Typically his second number will be $2000 above invoice. If it is, you write," Split the difference, with T/T, out the door" They usually will jump at it.

What I am telling you is based on 5 years in the business and personal purchases.

Tips:
DONT BE SCARED TO WALK AWAY.
CONFIDENCE IS KEY.
DONT DRIVE THE VEHICLE FROM THE DEALER YOU ARE BUYING FROM.
DONT DISCUSS CREDIT, FINANCE, INTEREST RATE, ETC BEFORE YOU GET INVOICE PRICING.
(THESE ARE BUYING SIGNALS, THEY WILL SMELL IT LIKE BLOOD TO A SHARK)

DONT LISTEN TO YOUR FRIENDS. EVERYBODY CLAIMS THE GOT A GOOD PRICE. MOST DONT KNOW WHAT INVOICE IS.
DONT ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS DURING NEGOTIATING FOR INVOICE.
(YOU MAY GIVE AWAY A BUYING SIGNAL WITHOUT KNOWING)

SHOPPING DURING THE LATTER PART OF THE MONTH CAN WORK TO YOUR ADAVNTAGE.
(DEALERS HAVE A PROJECTED SALES IN UNITS THEY NEED TO MEET, SO DO BANKS. THEY TYPICALLY WILL WORK BETTER DEALS AT THIS TIME TO MAKE THEIR MONTH)

IF YOU SUBMIT YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS TO A DEALERS WEBSITE LET THEM KNOW "NOT TO CALL YOU, NOT TO NEGOTIATE, YOU WILL ONLY ACCEPT INVOICE W/TAX&TAGS, IF THEY DO CALL YOU, YOU WILL NOT DEAL WITH THEIR DEALERSHIP, IF THE EMAIL YOU ANYTHING OTHER THAN INVOICE, YOU WILL NOT DEAL WITH THEIR DEALERSHIP" THIS IS THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY TO NEGOTIATE, AS OPPOSE TO IN PERSON.

THEY KNOW IF YOU NEGOTIATING THIS WAY YOU ARE A SERIOUS BUYER.

THEY WANT YOU IN THE DEALERSHIP SO THEY PLAT THE "GAME" WITH YOU. ITS SET UP TO WORK AGAINST YOU. LIKE A CASINO THE HOUSE ALWAYS WINS.

MOST DEALERS HAVE THE "NEGOTIATING" TABLES IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DEALERSHIP OR OPEN OFFICES.
(THIS CREATES A "BUYING FRENZY")

IT HELPS TO HAVE YOUR FINANCING ALREADY DONE BEFORE YOU SHOP FOR THE CAR.

------------------------
HOPE I HAVE SHEDDED SOM LIGHT ON THIS TOPIC.

mrblackpcs2:

Thanks for your insights. This is what I've been looking for. I can read about the tactics that other people are doing, but I think it's the psychological component that makes or breaks the "best" deal and you touched upon it.

When you say, "DONT DRIVE THE VEHICLE FROM THE DEALER YOU ARE BUYING FROM," what do you mean? Would this fall under "giving away buying signals".

I'm going in tomorrow to negotiate...wish me luck!

Howie said:I just thought I would chime in on this....

I have a friend who has worked for Ford for over 25 years, so I discussed this with him before going out to buy my last vehicle. I bought a "program car" which is a vehicle that was driven by an employee of the dealership. Therefore, it was used, but it only had like 4200 miles on it.

Here are some things we discussed (this does not mean they will work in all cases, but they worked for me when negotiating)

1) Do your research. It is very easy online to find out what the vehicle is worth, and in many cases, you can see exactly what the dealer pays for it.

2) Check multiple dealers. This will give you a feel to the actual price ranges that your vehicle should fall into.

3) When you start to negotiate, be prepared to negotiate. The salesperson likes you there as long as possible, so that he/she can make you feel like he/she is trying to get the best deal for you. YOU HAVE TO GET THE BEST DEAL FOR YOU. Get angry if you need to. As an example, my mother is a very kind person, and never seems to get mad at anyone, but she gets really really nasty when it comes to negotiating for a vehicle.

4) Give them a lowball offer. When I went to purchase my vehicle, I knew about what it should cost, and then told them, I am not spending more than XXXXX (which I knew was much less than their cost). Spent about $200 above my lowball offer when it was all said and done.

5) Leave the dealer a few times. If the dealer still knows they can make money, they will follow you to your car and try to convince you to continue to negotiate. Pretend like youre leaving. When you sit down again, the price should be lower. If they decide not to follow you out to the parking lot, the dealer probably feels it is not "worth it" to sell it to you at that cost. If your salesman continues to leave the office to ask his supervisor something, he really isnt doing that. He is going nowhere, but wants you to think he is talking to his supervisor. If this occurs, tell the salesperson you dont want to deal with him, and for him to bring the supervisor into the office.

6) Tell the dealer you will NOT pay dealer fees and all the extra crap they like to tack on. The salesman who I was negotiating with was telling me that the vehicle would come with a SPECIAL Ford Roadside assistance package, worth $600. I told the salesperson that I didnt want it since I buy extended warranties through outside companies. I left, and I came back since his manager said he could take off $500. My friend at Ford said that the roadside assistance costs the dealer about $75.

7) If you have a trade in, dont tell them until you have negotiated on a price. I did that, and my salesperson was very angry, but they gave me fair value for my trade.

8) Inspect the vehicle. Check everything. If you are getting a more expensive vehicle, tell them you want a FULL SPARE tire, instead of what comes with the car.

9) When you agree on a price, read the contract very very carefully. Make sure they didnt add dealer fees or too much tax!

10) From what I have noticed, the end of the month is the best time to buy a vehicle. The salesperson who sold me my vehicle needed to sell one more car to get his bonus. Therefore, he was willing to do more than usual to get his bonus.

DISCLAIMER: I have used these tactics multiple times, as I help my friends negotiate when purchasing a vehicle. They are not guaranteed to work, but they have worked for me the majority of the time.

this pretty much what i have been saying, But more expanded in process. Same concept however.

Its rare to meet someone in the dealership who has been in the car business that long now a days. Most car salesmen now are young guys. If they have been selling cars 2years they are considered "seasoned vets" where 15 years ago salesman where old gray head guys in plaid shirts

i guess you were surprised it went down like i said it would almost word for word huh?

Your belief in yourself will come with practice. Remember these salesmen get training and practice every day. Its like poker, your going to the table with 8 3 off suit, the saleman has a pair of jacks, the flop is a k q. You have to make him believe you are holding big slick(a K).

Dont tell em you want to pay around invoice. Tell em invoice tax and tag or i'm gone.

What state are you in? Depending on what tax and tags are there 1000k over might not be bad.
In South Carolina tax and tags is capped at $329 some states have a %. And when they ask where did you get your price you say "I was thinking the same thing about your price" Now when he said its 1000k over invoice I would have told him to show me the invoice at that time. He wasnt very experienced. a "seasoned salesman never mentions invoice. A "vet" would have came back with "
mr customer we both know this is a fair price, lets do business"

Also keep your cool. Dont get emotional. Stay calm, put on your poker face. Stick the plan it will work. If you have questions let me know.

Count26, wow! I could feel the tension! It's a lot to remember in order to successfully bargain. You'll get it next time now that you have some practice.

I guess buyers shouldn't be taken aback when the manager gets huffy or even angry, like you said be cool and confident. I look at it this way since these salesmen get training and practice every day (like mrblackpcs2 says)... we, as buyers, must know what we want, at what price we want it, be willing to walk away (it's harder to get a customer back on the showroom floor once we walk out the door), be firm, and not be intimidated. Easier said than done, of course.

The abusive attitude the manager had must have been a "scare tactic". Think of it as total BS and stick to your guns. The less we say the better. Because it boils down to cold hard cash that you and I worked really hard to make. The dealer will get their's, no worry there.

To know that the system works against us right when we walk into the dealer showroom really bothers me.

If certain things fall into place soon, I'll be using everyone's recommendations in late September to see what I can do. I do have to say, this is a very informative thread... well, at least for me.

(a) Yeah... Sticker aka MSRP would be $32,870 and invoice is $29,568
(b) Remember that while some cars sell for under invoice, others don't. The price you see at Edmunds doesn't include the T,T&T (tax, title, tags). IMHO, offering $2k under invoice on the pilot out-the-door wouldn't be met with the kindest of responses.