how to negotiate a great deal on a new car?

I try doing a search and was not able to find any thread on this topic. I checked carbuyingtips.com but wanted feedback from fellow on what to do and what not to do.

what im looking for:
Honda Pilot EX-L w/Navi, runningboards, and crossbars.
thanks
count26

shop around, ask dealers on their prices. first of all, you need to know what kind of car you want and with what options. then check carsdirect or some other places online (kbb, edmunds) to get a price quote. u can also try going to a dealer and ask them to meet another dealer's price, or possibly beat that price (maybe throw in some extra options). good luck

Be flexible. Think "four door sedan," not "2004 Honda Accord EX V6."

My point? You may find a better deal on a car that meets your general needs that you would by trying to get a specific model.

Also, don't underestimate (or overestimate) the value of zero percent financing.

Count26 said: well Im looking to get a Pilot EX-L w/nagvi, running boards, and crossbars. I think invoice on it is 29,500 but the closest i got is 31,000. I think they can do better than that because 05 models are coming out next month plus they have holdbacks and rebates from manufacturer to move the cars.it doesn't matter if 05 is coming out soon. if the pilot is a very popular car, you may not be able to negotiate better. on the other hand, if the pilot isn't that popular and available a plenty, then you have a great chance.

also, if you know and have test drive the car already and definitely wanting that pilot, try negotiating through the phone. you can always hang up if price is not in your favor. instead of driving to dealer to dealer and ended up with none.

Count26 said: Thanks for the advice. That's why I'm negotiating prices over email.

Wrong. You will get the best deal in person.
Tip: Go to them and tell them your offer. Check edmunds to see if they have holdbacks or factory to dealer incentives...if they do, even if they sell AT retail they make money. If not, offer them 30k. If a dealer doesnt match it, try this line (once you find a dealer that has exactly the car you want..make sure that you filled out some papers with your phone # etc)
"Well, I am willing to spend 30k. If you can not make me this offer, I will go to another dealership. If they match my offer, you just lost my business...but if this is the best price around then I will be back tomorrow"

Or just simply say the price they are asking for is too high. I have done that, and after 10min of leaving the dealership saying (when their offered price was $1k more than what i offered) "you don't have the color I was looking for anyway", i got a phone call. "What would it take to bring you back to our dealership?" i said "Nothing, you don't have the color i want, or the price." After 5min on the phone , i was offered they bring in the color i want, AND match my offered price ($200 over invoice).

Sorry for the long post, just trying to point out that E-mail will NOT get you the best offer cause you're not there to sign the papers of the eager-to-sell salesmen.

forget the nav you'll get a better unit aftermarket. go to a dealer(after they close)find the one u want. right down every option including the codes if available. go to edmunds.com to find the invoice. start negotiating from 2k below that price. do not pay more than invoice including tax and tags. i'm an ex finance manager for a large ford dealer in sc. i just bought a 2004 suburban that stickered at 49k, i paid 40,0029 including tax and tags.

ps you want to be at invoice before any rebates. the dealer is not gonna give up hold back. they gotta eat too.

do not negotiate finance, trades, etc. invoice(including tax/tag)-rebates(dealer and factory) plus an oil change before delivery.

ynotme said: mrblackpcs2 said: forget the nav you'll get a better unit aftermarket. go to a dealer(after they close)find the one u want. right down every option including the codes if available. go to edmunds.com to find the invoice. start negotiating from 2k below that price. do not pay more than invoice including tax and tags. i'm an ex finance manager for a large ford dealer in sc. i just bought a 2004 suburban that stickered at 49k, i paid 40,0029 including tax and tags.

ps you want to be at invoice before any rebates. the dealer is not gonna give up hold back. they gotta eat too.

do not negotiate finance, trades, etc. invoice(including tax/tag)-rebates(dealer and factory) plus an oil change before delivery.

pilot is not like suburban, it's a very popular model, at least here in so. cali.
the salesman don't even come to you unless you ask them politely

i went nissan dealer in cerritos for armada, after talking to sales rep for about 10 minutes about the car i gave him 38k, with big smile his face he said 42k, and second shot he turn back and just walk away
he said they sold 42 of them over the weekend

well every else in the world suburbans are more popular. and the car business isnt exactly booming anywhere. The tactic i stated will work. he may considered going out of states to save a few grand.

I disagree with the statement about best price in person. You are just wasting your time driving around different dealership. Here is what I would suggest you do.

1. Go to the hondapilot.org website. The website's members are usually owners of this particular vehicle. These members knows their car and their experience with the purchase is going to be much better than anyone from this forum.

2. Look up some of the dealer ratings from the website. See if any of the dealer is in your area.

3. Get the number for a few of the dealer and call them up with the price you want to pay for the vehicle. Leave them your email address or phone number. Let them come to you instead of walking to the dealership negotiating. Make sure you tell them that the price you are offering to pay is fixed. You don't want to pay for any prep package etc. If they decided to throw it in for free, fine but you are not going to pay for it. If they can't do your price, they will tell you the price they want. Write that number down. Use that number to compare it to what other dealers are offering.

4. Don't be shy to ask for a quote from a dealer 100 miles away. The number they give you will give you a bargaining power for local dealers. Remember, you are not driving out there so it doesn't cost you anything to ask.

5. Buy the running board and any accessories you are interested from hondacuraworld.com. If you are not a handy person, fine. Print out their prices and take it to the dealership to see if they can match the price and charge you reasonable labor rates. You will be shocked with the markups.

The above advices are based on my experience from purchasing a Acura TL in 2002 and 2004 MDX in 2003. I used the TL and MDX websites and they are very similiar.

BTW. The statment about honda pilot being popular and hard to negotiate is not accurate. Yes it's a popular vehicle but drive to a honda dealership and see how many are sitting around. There are lots of similiar SUV in that class to compete with the pilot now so they will negotiate. You should definitely pay invoice or close to it for a 2004.

Here is an example of one thread. Noticed that someone mentioned side curtain airbag for the 05 and transmission upgrade.

2004 Pilot at invoice

Bring in other offers that are printed, ones you may have not even looked at and say how much better they seem compared to the offer you are getting(don't let them call your bluff). Always take the second offer they give you, you know the one after thier BS best they can do line, and drop it by $300 to $500. They won't let that little margin stop them from selling a car, this applies to cars that are 12-15k of course.

Pilot is very hot SUV in the market right now..Like oddessy in 2001 people paid 1500 over MSRP and wait for few months. I just bought mine 2004 oddessy EX with leather for 25,700, invoice was 26000+ and MSRP was 29,900.Very Nice minivan for Very good price.

My dad got his the 7th day it came out in 2003. he paid msrp + ttl. It was the 9th pilot the dealer sold in 7 days.

When negotiating, first and most important rule is "be willing to walk away"

I bought a car recently and they keep telling me "That price is way too low, there is no way we can do that."
I replied: Okay, thanks I will think about it first. Chances are he will call you back in. I had to walk away 4 times before we finally came to an agreed upon price.

Also, be patient. The dealers are trying to test your limit, they lower the price little by little.

Also, it is easier adding options to the car than lowering the price.

I've tried the playing i want the cheapest model and then ask about the upper end models to get a discount. I've also tried "can you beat that deal." I think what I need to do now is play walkaway at the dealer that gives me the lowest deal until they give in to what i want. I think if I spend like over 10 hours say like 2-3 hours per visit and I do like 3 or 4 visits, making them spend a major amount of time and effort on me, which means they have to break me a deal. Do you guys see where I'm going with this?

btw for the naysayers. My friend recently bought a EX-L Pilot w/DVD, running boards, crossbars, cargo net, and wheel locks for 29,100. I tried going there to get a similar deal but they didnt have my color plus they lied to me. I was told 29,800 over the phone which i was almost ok with but when i came in they did a switch-o-roo on me had another salesman come over with a price of 34,000. I was kinda of upset by the way they decieved me.

I've tried the playing i want the cheapest model and then ask about the upper end models to get a discount. I've also tried "can you beat that deal." I think what I need to do now is play walkaway at the dealer that gives me the lowest deal until they give in to what i want. I think if I spend like over 10 hours say like 2-3 hours per visit and I do like 3 or 4 visits, making them spend a major amount of time and effort on me, which means they have to break me a deal. Do you guys see where I'm going with this?

btw for the naysayers. My friend recently bought a EX-L Pilot w/DVD, running boards, crossbars, cargo net, and wheel locks for 29,100. I tried going there to get a similar deal but they didnt have my color plus they lied to me. I was told 29,800 over the phone which i was almost ok with but when i came in they did a switch-o-roo on me had another salesman come over with a price of 34,000. I was kinda of upset by the way they decieved me.

Have you talked to a few dealer and expressed to them that the most you want to pay for the vehicle? Don't negotiate with the sales people. Talk to a manager and make sure they have your info. Don't keep going back to the dealer hoping they will cave in at your price. Just sit at home and wait. The bottom line is that they may try to move vehicles at the end of month and they will give you the price you want.

I pre-order the 2004 MDX from my local Acura dealer last August. They wanted MSRP and I was going to pay that since I really wanted the side curtain airbag. I spoke to and emailed a few other dealers in the area and I aked for $1500 off msrp. I received a call from one of the dealer with $1000 off. I took that information and gave it to my local dealer when I went in for the deposit. They had no problem giving me the same discount. I was at the dealership last week for service and guess what...I found out the lowest price I can get on a 2004MDX is right around invoice. The majority of the people who are coming in are paying about $1000 off msrp. What does this mean? Yes, the vehicle is popular but invoice is very possible. I know I am talking about the MDX here but they are essentially the same vehicle.

Keep on trying.. and yes a lot of sales people will tell you one thing one the phone and something different in person (that is there job).. Make sure you tell them that you are not a sucker and you can pretty much shut them up if you show that you know more about the vehicle than he/she. Bring up issues about TSB, etcs.. and they know you are an Internet person. You should see the face of the service and sales people when I took my MDX in for a TSB with a TSB letter that I downloaded from the Internet.

around $32k is a reasonable price.

samdave1 said: mrblackpcs2:

Thanks for your insights. This is what I've been looking for. I can read about the tactics that other people are doing, but I think it's the psychological component that makes or breaks the "best" deal and you touched upon it.

When you say, "DONT DRIVE THE VEHICLE FROM THE DEALER YOU ARE BUYING FROM," what do you mean? Would this fall under "giving away buying signals".

Salesmen are tought to make sure customers drive the vehicle before negotiating, to get you "hot" for the vehicle. It makes it easier to switch you to a vehicle you really dont want. Different color, different options, etc. If you happend to really like the vehicle after driving it, you are more likely to fall for the "game" they play.

So go to a smaller dealer to test drive it. Drive the other vehicles in the same class before you settle. You might be surprised.
For example I remember a customer came into my dealership comarison shopping a camry ce, 5sp with the ford taurus. I told him lets compare aples to apples. The camry he wanted stickered at 27k they quoted him 24,900 all in. To make a long story short I sold him a Ford Contour sVT, fully loaded, leather, moon roof, 6 disc, etc for 23.999. Much better vehicle than the camry for the same money.
So you never know.

Always try to buy from the larger dealerships. They are more willing to move inventory than the smaller ones.

I just thought I would chime in on this....

I have a friend who has worked for Ford for over 25 years, so I discussed this with him before going out to buy my last vehicle. I bought a "program car" which is a vehicle that was driven by an employee of the dealership. Therefore, it was used, but it only had like 4200 miles on it.

Here are some things we discussed (this does not mean they will work in all cases, but they worked for me when negotiating)

1) Do your research. It is very easy online to find out what the vehicle is worth, and in many cases, you can see exactly what the dealer pays for it.

2) Check multiple dealers. This will give you a feel to the actual price ranges that your vehicle should fall into.

3) When you start to negotiate, be prepared to negotiate. The salesperson likes you there as long as possible, so that he/she can make you feel like he/she is trying to get the best deal for you. YOU HAVE TO GET THE BEST DEAL FOR YOU. Get angry if you need to. As an example, my mother is a very kind person, and never seems to get mad at anyone, but she gets really really nasty when it comes to negotiating for a vehicle.

4) Give them a lowball offer. When I went to purchase my vehicle, I knew about what it should cost, and then told them, I am not spending more than XXXXX (which I knew was much less than their cost). Spent about $200 above my lowball offer when it was all said and done.

5) Leave the dealer a few times. If the dealer still knows they can make money, they will follow you to your car and try to convince you to continue to negotiate. Pretend like youre leaving. When you sit down again, the price should be lower. If they decide not to follow you out to the parking lot, the dealer probably feels it is not "worth it" to sell it to you at that cost. If your salesman continues to leave the office to ask his supervisor something, he really isnt doing that. He is going nowhere, but wants you to think he is talking to his supervisor. If this occurs, tell the salesperson you dont want to deal with him, and for him to bring the supervisor into the office.

6) Tell the dealer you will NOT pay dealer fees and all the extra crap they like to tack on. The salesman who I was negotiating with was telling me that the vehicle would come with a SPECIAL Ford Roadside assistance package, worth $600. I told the salesperson that I didnt want it since I buy extended warranties through outside companies. I left, and I came back since his manager said he could take off $500. My friend at Ford said that the roadside assistance costs the dealer about $75.

7) If you have a trade in, dont tell them until you have negotiated on a price. I did that, and my salesperson was very angry, but they gave me fair value for my trade.

8) Inspect the vehicle. Check everything. If you are getting a more expensive vehicle, tell them you want a FULL SPARE tire, instead of what comes with the car.

9) When you agree on a price, read the contract very very carefully. Make sure they didnt add dealer fees or too much tax!

10) From what I have noticed, the end of the month is the best time to buy a vehicle. The salesperson who sold me my vehicle needed to sell one more car to get his bonus. Therefore, he was willing to do more than usual to get his bonus.

DISCLAIMER: I have used these tactics multiple times, as I help my friends negotiate when purchasing a vehicle. They are not guaranteed to work, but they have worked for me the majority of the time.

I went to 2 dealers today due to time constraint. I did almost everything mrblackpcs2 said to do. I think I fell a little short b/c of my confidence level. First dealer I went I told the salesman, I am looking to pay around invoice and I would also kick him a little extra if he could help me get it. He comes back after talking to the sales manager with a quote of 31,000. I crossed it out and wrote on the back "28,500 t/t out the door." Then comes the sales manager just like mrblackpcs2 foretold. But the manager came with an abasive atitude as if I insulted his mother. "where did you get this price" he demanded\\and I replied "where did you get your price?" =) He said his price is 1k over invoice I said well my price is 1k under invoice! =) He seemed annoyed and bothered. I played it as cool and confident as I could but I can tell I wasn't on my game. I did however get the salesman on my side and the salesman went back to the manager and got me a price of 30,058. BUT there was one problem I freaking forgot to mention the running boards! I then played dumb telling the salesman I thought that the EX-L(top of the line model) came with running boards. He comes back with a price of $705 for running boards. Right there i knew I blew it, I just the lost the advantage. His manager wouldnt budge and I didn't think the deal was hot enough so I left.

BF & I both bought new cars last year & we were very happy with our negotiations. We got great deals even though we both knew exactly the car we wanted & weren't very flexible. Of course we live in a major metropolitan area with lots & lots of dealers so YMMV. Anyway, here's what we did:

My car: We asked for low price quotes, mostly via e-mail, from lots & lots of dealers, then followed up by phone. I kept calling back salesmen, asking them to beat the lowest offer I'd received, until they all bowed out but one. Then I talked that one into taking a few hundred more off. And once they've talked to you a few times & put in some time & effort, they don't like to see you walk away so they're quite willing to negotiate.

BF's car: First he checked out all the newspaper ads for the entire tri-state area. He ripped out the ads with the lowest prices, even though we knew some were slightly used or dinged or included rebates that we weren't eligible for. Then we went to the closest dealers, clutching our dirt cheap ad prices, and looked at brand new cars in perfect condition. We double teamed the poor salesman & stubbornly insisted we wanted to buy the car for the price in the competitor's ad. We let them try to reason with us ("that ad price is for a used car!") & talk us up from that price. It worked so much better than trying to negotiate downward from their sticker price. And if they weren't willing to come close to our offer price, we just moved on to the next dealer.

And be really careful that you don't get suckered into buying a lot of worthless extras. That's where they really try to make their money.

mrblackpcs2...can you please answer to the following:

(A) The invoice price...is it the same usually for a car that you find on Edmunds.com...so for example the 2004 Pilot AWD, EXL w/Navigation has a sticker of $ 32,870.00 with an invoice of $ 29,568.00.

(B) Let's say for argument sake, I write down $ 27,568 "out the door t/t"

Is that what you mean?? $ 2k below invoice...or did you mean something else. Also Tax & Tag..can you please elaborate?? Sorry, if it sounds really DUMB, but we have 5% sales tax here in Mass...you don't mean inclusive of sales tax do you?? Boy, that could be really insulting..

Thanks in advance for your response.

Best regards,

Vinnie
==========
P.S : By the way, you had the BEST response of anyone out there......thanks for your input !!

debating between infiniti g35 vs audi a4 2.0 any suggestions anyone seen good deals on a new one?