Sfortier17 said:mrblackpcs2 said, "So why doesnt the website show any negative numbers if they are preselling or taking orders. Which you typically see inh the case of "HOT" cars? Again I never said every dealer, in every state plays trick with the inventory. But obvious some in my area are because I know what I saw."

I can't explain the lack of negative numbers, but can say this about there only being a handful at my chicago-area dealerships... In the case of the SP23, they had stopped taking orders for it sometime in February. This was apparently mid month if Mazda Corporate did not lie. So therefore the numbers would not necesarily be showing negative because all the cars have been ordered already and are waiting to be produced or already being delivered to the dealerships. So, the handful that the dealerships were able to order for themselves, for the lot or showroom, are the ones that have been delivered and are showing up on inventory right now.

The way the inventory works is if they sell a car(even an order) would show up as a unit sold.

For example:
Dealer A has 0 in stock
They sell(order) 1
Inventory shows -1

Now I have seen delears do this and then immediately stock in the unit if they actually had it to begin with. They do this so they always show 0 or a small number.

An ordered has to be sold before they ship it. Sometimes dealers promis you a car the already have ordered. But when you "order a car" it is built to the order and has to be sold first. So when a unit is sold when its not in inventory it has to show up as negative. I think you your are misunderstanding dealer actual inventory versus mazda corporate inventory. Also I cant see a MFG stopping dealers from selling cars, not taking orders. I really think you are confused on how dealers order and report inventory. I'm 100% sure of what I'm saying. All Ford dealers including mazda and volvo use the same system. So any ford dealer can actually look up a mazda dealers inventory and vice versa. Regional inventories usually update weekly and national/corporate are a little slower. They do this to account for transfers and sales. Now you also have another type of inventory which transfers in/out which include recalls service, sold, current stock as reported by the dealers, freight transfers from the mfg. The prior is typically more accurate because the dealers cant change what was sold. Thats is what gives the indication of who's playing tricks because you will see the negative numbers. FYI...


And taking you at your word for dealers playing tricks, they would not bother to enter into the system the sp23's that had been ordered specifically for a customer because the customer would be picking it up rather soon after its delivery right?

Again the way the sytem works they cant control this. If they sell[order] the car it will show.

And as you said... not putting it in the inventory would increase its hype. Or in this case increase the so called hype and it would be pointless since it has already been purchased. Also, I am no computer whiz, but I know its not difficult to set up a system so that it won't show negative numbers, especially since it is a system used by consumers that would waste mazda's time with emails questioning negative amounts. Now that previous paragraph I wrote was definetly a guess, but does it make sense to you too?

The benefit of them doing this comes when you are in a dealer and they bring a printout over to you you see low numbers available. Thats where the hype comes in to play. The system is designed by Ford not the individual dealers.

Back to the question I raised last post:

Ok, so we have established that the regional adjustment is accurate. Now, do you know why it is accurate? In the military we call question like this nuking it. Nukes tend to focus on little pointless stuff. I try to make this thread as simple as possible. So when you go to negotiate you dont get caught up. Just follow the advice on this thread and you will go into the dealer way ahead of the game. This question is kinda like explaining money factors of lease terms to a novice. You just arent ready for that much info and it probably wont help you anyway. Hope this helps

gleeb said:MDX
Hey MrBlack there is no spoon!


I'm a NJ (Cedar Grove) Matrix fan too! Read all your awesome posts, tanx. I am looking for a 2005 Acura MDX Touring MDX. Edmunds TMV is 38510, is invoice (35,605) T/T out the door possible! It may not be hot as it was but is still very popular. I also want runnings boards, spoiler, towing, and wheel locks.

Keep up the great work!

You should be pretty close. Also consider the Pacifica

gleeb said:Wow, ur fast! Pretty close to invoice or TMV?
invoice including t/t is the number you want to negotiate for...


Pacifica is cool, but MDX got great CR ratings.

go here and compare vehicles

oh and the sec package is not just an alarm system, according to edmunds:

SP23 Security Package - Includes Anti-Lock braking system with electronic brake force distribution, dual front seat-mounted side-impact air bags, side-impact front and rear air curtains, Xenon High-Intensity Discharge headlights, tire pressure monitoring system and theft deterrent security system.

aww man, cut him some slack - he was just dishing out some info on the sp23. that's ok.

workerrobot said:oh and the sec package is not just an alarm system, according to edmunds:

SP23 Security Package - Includes Anti-Lock braking system with electronic brake force distribution, dual front seat-mounted side-impact air bags, side-impact front and rear air curtains, Xenon High-Intensity Discharge headlights, tire pressure monitoring system and theft deterrent security system.

We covered this!!! But I guess you knew that since you read the thread....

Dont take me wrong, I just hate repeating the same info, especially when it was just posted a few days ago.

Thank you for this thread. It has been very informative. I originally planned to use the fax attack, but have now reconsidered. One question that I hope you can help with is the price I should shoot for on the Honda Odyessy (2005). I am specifically looking at the touring edition.

Edmunds Link

No DVD/Navigation - no other options. I am in zipcode 91360. Looking at carsdirect and the edmunds site, it doesn't look good for invoice. I've also been scanning the local papers and haven't seen this minivan advertised with a specific price. mrblackpcs, what do you think? What price would you shoot for (and realistically expect to get)? Thanks.

FYI: Data point for anyone shopping for a Toyota Corolla

Recently purchased a Corolla S, 5 speed, silver streak mica color, with options (codes on Edmunds): VP, SR, EV, CF, C1. Edmunds link: Text Zip Code: 92020

Paid $14,922 (includes the $500 incentive), which is about $700 under invoice (or $200 under invoice before taking into account the incentive)

did this thread help? Hot car...I love the corolla

I actually discovered this thread after buying the car. But I agree with the info posted in this thread. And Fatwallet introduced me to carbuyingtips.com and edmunds.com, which I used extensively to buy the car.

(Here's my car buying story if anyone's interested, apologies for it being so long)
The biggest thing I learned is to use the Internet, understand the dealer's cost, and that every car buying situation - no matter how it appears - can have unexpectedly favorable outcomes. For example, the Corolla I wanted was in very short supply because it was a 5 speed (Toyota just doesn't make too many, especially that come equipped with very many options). So it was like trying to buy a really high in demand car. I had already given up on trying to buy a Mazda 3 for that same reason (simply too hard to find the one I wanted). And for the Corolla I wanted, there are more than a dozen Toyota dealers within a 50 mile radius of me, but I couldn't find a 5 speed with a moonroof and alloy wheels in stock and I even had dealers searching each others' inventory to no avail. I was thinking, here we go again.

Then I found Fatwallet and had Edmunds contact local dealers to provide me with e-mail quotes. Out of nowhere, "Dealer A" says he has only one in stock and quotes me a price that Edmunds said was $200 under invoice. I thought it was total BS, especially since no other dealer showed he even had the car in stock. Figured he just wanted to get me on the lot and screw me. But after a few phone calls back and forth where he reiterated his offer, I decided to go check it out. I stopped by another dealer for a gut check on the way over. This place had just received a white Corolla w/the specs I wanted (but I didn't particularly want a white car). I thought I'd test drive it anyway, and while I'm waiting to test drive it it gets purchased! So I didn't even get to try it (yes, popular car). Then I tell the salesman about the offer I received from the other place. He says there's no way it's legit, that Dealer A will probably bait and switch me, that it can't be configured as claimed, and that no Toyota dealer in their right mind would sell that car for that price when they can make a lot more on it, citing the white Corolla that just sold before my eyes...etc. He even told me to call him after I got to Dealer A and tell him the VIN to make sure it was totally legit.

Well, I got to Dealer A and everything was legit as claimed! Blew my mind, blew the other dealers' mind when I called him on my cell and told him the VIN. I paid cash, and even put $2k of it on my credit card (for airline miles) because the Internet sales guy said I would be able to. The financing manager had to ask his boss for permission to do that, calling the deal a "loser" and having to argue with the sales rep and manager if they wanted to still let me pay part with credit card (dealership eats the credit card fees). Ultimately they allowed it, since the salesman did promise it.

In the end I asked Dealer A how they could sell me the car for a loss, I was still perplexed! His explanation was as follows:
1.) Their allocation from Toyota improves the more cars they sell, and the better the customer feedback and response rate is from the new car purchaser survey that Toyota sends directly to you. As such, they even gave me a free tank of gas for filling out the survey, and bringing it back for Dealer A to mail.
2.) They take this favorable allocation of new vehicles from Toyota and sell it at a good margin to people who don't use the Internet to shop for cars. They also primarily make their margins by selling trucks and SUVs, not passenger cars.
3.) Dealer A's Internet Sales Department is structured accordingly - salespeople are on "flat" commissions and thus have no incentive to sell you a car at a high price. They only want to sell lots of cars.
4.) If I walked in off the street, I would not have gotten the same deal, ever, period. It would undermine their business model.

It was quite an eye-opening experience. Hopefully I will have just as good an experience next time I have to buy a car!

MrBlack you are the oracle but I don't agree with your choice of the Pacifica. A coworker just got a 2005 Pacifica and already had to bring it to the shop twice (leaked some crap on his driveway = not good). By the way, what are you getting out of all of this? You doin' penance for your car selling days? lol. Sorry for getting' off topic but just wondering. Anyway, thanks again.