Couple weeks ago I saw one of the hot deals for me, and it is RocketVoip. It offers me "Unlimited minutes to call the US, Canada, and the 50 countries (Including Indonesia). Yes it's true I am a college student from Indonesia.
Finally I registered and got all the devices and start calling. The service was great, because I don't need to buy more Phone cards for doing international calling. However, Yesterday I received and e-mail from them, saying that :
You have calling patterns that are inconsistent with normal residential usage patterns. According to section 1.2 of our terms and conditions these calling patterns violate the terms of service.
1.2 Residential Use of Service and Device If you have subscribed to WQN's Residential services, the Service and Device are provided to you as a residential user, for your personal, residential, non-business and non-professional use. This means that you are not using them for any commercial or governmental activities, profit-making or non-profit, including but not limited to home office, business, sales, tele-commuting, tele-marketing, autodialing, continuous or extensive call forwarding, fax broadcast, fax blasting or any other activity that would be inconsistent with normal residential usage patterns. This also means that you are not to resell or transfer the Service or the Device to any other person for any purpose, or make any charge for the use of the Service, without express written permission from WQN in advance. You agree that your use of the Service and/or Device, or the use of the Service and/or Device provided to you by any other person for any commercial or governmental purpose will obligate you to pay WQN's higher rates for commercial service on account of all periods, including past periods, in which you use, or used, the Service for commercial or governmental purposes. WQN reserves the right to immediately terminate or modify the Service, if WQN determines, in its sole discretion, that Customer's Service is being used for non-residential or commercial use.
Fortunately, we have developed a more suitable program that we believe will better meet your needs. This is the best value available with superior quality. For only $14.95 per month, you receive:
§ 500 minutes to the US, Canada, and over 30 countries that you can also use with your cell phone § Lowest per minute rate plan for all international calls (see attached) § Unlimited rocketVoIP to rocketVoIP calls § Unlimited inbound calls.
I have just use it for about 2 hours a day, but they said I am not a reasonable caller, in fact, my Fiancee and my Family are of course back home in Indonesia. I tried to call them, explain them all the things, but they said "The system has detected that I am over limit, and will terminate the Service" and They can't do nothing about it except change the plan or terminate the service. I tried to ask them to talk to their upper management, but they said They can't be reached. The Question is: What is the Meaning of Unlimited? Is that means I can't use it for about 2 hours a day? I am very upset about this problem. I did sent an email to the upper management, but didn't get the reply yet. What should I do now? Can anyone help me?
If you are calling 011-6221 or 011-6231, I think you have a valid argument with them. Otherwise, it seems that unlimited means 1 hour free per month?
This is America, sue them.
Antz
Member
posted: Apr. 9, 2005 @ 3:11p
That't True... The One I am calling is the Unlimited one, 011-6221 The one that is only has 1 hour limit is the Cell Phone Number 011-6281 because in Indonesia, Cell phone rates are much Higher so that's the reason they limited to 1 hour. But of course I use it only to 011-6221 the unlimited one.
I don't know how to report this problem?
jayK
Senior Member - JayK
posted: Apr. 9, 2005 @ 3:11p
Unlimited never really means unlimited. If everyone was on the phone 2 hours per day (that's extensive use IMHO) then they would have to raise the price.
The contract says that you can't use the service in a way that "would be inconsistent with normal residential usage patterns". WQN determines what "normal residential usage" means, in its sole discretion, so I don't think you have much leverage here.
Antz
Member
posted: Apr. 9, 2005 @ 3:18p
So is that mean I am limited to some minutes? I think it should be reasonable to use the phone for 2 hours a day. Moreover, I think instead of saying unlimited for residential users, why don't they just define the limit?
Actually my GF is thinking about using this service (24.95 pm) and "unlimited" means a maximum of 1200 minutes a month according to the CS. (This point was brought up from the discussion in the Hot Deal forum.)
So this means you can use the phone for 40 mins a day and be on the limit of your "unlimited" account.
I can see nowhere at all in any terms and conditions that this is specified - even the CS was clueless. However the online chat CS did say that it was limited to 1200 minutes per month on the unlimited plan - the session is anonymous but this is a very strange business practice.
It reminds me of Netzero back in 2001 who hounded me for months using their free service to upgrade to the unlimted Platinum service - which I did - then a month or two later I was suspended for excessive use...!
jayK said: Unlimited never really means unlimited. If everyone was on the phone 2 hours per day (that's extensive use IMHO) then they would have to raise the price.
The contract says that you can't use the service in a way that "would be inconsistent with normal residential usage patterns". WQN determines what "normal residential usage" means, in its sole discretion, so I don't think you have much leverage here.
If unlimited never really means unlimited then what else does not mean what they expressly mention then?
Normal residential use for many families they days is hours of yapping about nothing to friends and family god knows where in the world from my experience.
40 mins a day is not normal by any stretch of the imagination in 2005.
30 mins is "normal" to be on hold waiting for CS with musak in the background
If they mean 1200 minutes a month then that is what should be advertised...pure n simple.
Antz
Member
posted: Apr. 9, 2005 @ 4:23p
gtd2000 said: jayK said: Unlimited never really means unlimited. If everyone was on the phone 2 hours per day (that's extensive use IMHO) then they would have to raise the price.
The contract says that you can't use the service in a way that "would be inconsistent with normal residential usage patterns". WQN determines what "normal residential usage" means, in its sole discretion, so I don't think you have much leverage here.
If unlimited never really means unlimited then what else does not mean what they expressly mention then?
Normal residential use for many families they days is hours of yapping about nothing to friends and family god knows where in the world from my experience.
40 mins a day is not normal by any stretch of the imagination in 2005.
30 mins is "normal" to be on hold waiting for CS with musak in the background
If they mean 1200 minutes a month then that is what should be advertised...pure n simple.
Wow... that really surprised me that there is a discussion about this before. That is Absolutely True gtd2000, that's what I mean. Why don't they just Simply State 1200 Mins per Month, then I can decide whether taking their plan or not.
overama
Senior Member - 2K
posted: Apr. 9, 2005 @ 4:29p
I think it should be reasonable to use the phone for 2 hours a day.
Reasonable to speak to another country for 2 hours a day? Try that with any other service and see what they charge? You're basically looking for a freebie. Forget it and while you're at it, learn some English!!
hlie
Tired Member
posted: Apr. 9, 2005 @ 4:35p
I don't understand your statement here. What do you mean by "unlimited never really means unlimited?"
AFAIK, unlimited means infinite; having no boundaries; unrestricted. Unless, off course, corporate America has "changed" the term to their convenience -- for their advantage.
IMHO, 2 hours/day of phone call for residential-use is not across-the-board. There are people here who have strong bond with their family, lovers, friends. So, they want to keep in touch everyday, as much as possible -- especially when they are across the oceans.
If a business decided to offer an unlimited phone service, they would have had considered the possibility of residential users using 2 hours of their service/day. If the business can't take that as a consistent usage patten, then they shouldn't have offered the service from the start. At least they should have defined the "inconsistency of residential usage patterns" and stop the BS with "in its sole discretion." How in the world we (customers) would know what the company wants? That's deceiving, IMHO.
jayK said: Unlimited never really means unlimited. If everyone was on the phone 2 hours per day (that's extensive use IMHO) then they would have to raise the price.
The contract says that you can't use the service in a way that "would be inconsistent with normal residential usage patterns". WQN determines what "normal residential usage" means, in its sole discretion, so I don't think you have much leverage here.
hlie
Tired Member
posted: Apr. 9, 2005 @ 4:42p
I would try that with other service IF that company offers UNLIMITED international call service. Freebie my balls. Customers pay for what RocketVoip offers -- in this case UNLIMITED international phone call.
Put yourself in other's shoes before talking will you. Have you ever thought of yourself being away in other country and you are still learning their language. Jeez...
overama said: I think it should be reasonable to use the phone for 2 hours a day.
Reasonable to speak to another country for 2 hours a day? Try that with any other service and see what they charge? You're basically looking for a freebie. Forget it and while you're at it, learn some English!!
Antz
Member
posted: Apr. 9, 2005 @ 4:47p
overama said: I think it should be reasonable to use the phone for 2 hours a day.
Reasonable to speak to another country for 2 hours a day? Try that with any other service and see what they charge? You're basically looking for a freebie. Forget it and while you're at it, learn some English!!
I'm sorry, but I am not trying to argue with people. I used to use phone card which is not very expensive, but by using VoIp I don't have to always press the PIN number. And again, THIS IS VOIP! It Always Cheaper Using VOIP, because I Have to pay the High Speed Internet Access myself.
AND, I AM NOT TRYING TO INSULT U OR SOMETHING, BUT MY PROBLEM IS ABOUT THE SERVICE, NOT ABOUT MY ENGLISH.
By the way, do you have a cell phone? I believe you have heard about "Unlimited Night and Weekend". Is there any limit for using that???
overama said: I think it should be reasonable to use the phone for 2 hours a day.
Reasonable to speak to another country for 2 hours a day? Try that with any other service and see what they charge? You're basically looking for a freebie. Forget it and while you're at it, learn some English!!
"Reasonable" would be calling all the unlimited plans "restricted" to a certain number of minutes.
The whole "look at me" aspect of rocketVoip is that ii proclaims unlimited calls. That's a fact!
It is perfectly "reasonable" for people speaking English or not to talk as long as they feel the need to speak on an unlimited plan.
How can it be a "freebie" if you are paying $25pm for a feature that they advertise proudly? Hell they even have a video shouting about it as soon as you enter the webpage
If your cell hone provider gives you "unlimited nights and weekends" are you expecting to only speak for 30-40mins maximum? No! - that's the answer, you are not expecting any limit or restriction! - You are expecting with the correct use of English that it means you can talk as long as you bloody well want
I'm off to bed now (I'm in Israel!) 12:51am and got to get up for work tomorrow
I'd use this service a lot personally as I'm British/Scottish but work for an American company and always travel around these days. I had considered getting the upgrade to the business plan so I can call from my laptop but it seems like false advertising.
You can tell I'm tired by the amount of typos in my other post...
Give 'em hell Antz and no need to apologise to anybody mate!
Antz
Member
posted: Apr. 9, 2005 @ 4:57p
gtd2000 said: I'm off to bed now (I'm in Israel!) 12:51am and got to get up for work tomorrow
I'd use this service a lot personally as I'm British/Scottish but work for an American company and always travel around these days. I had considered getting the upgrade to the business plan so I can call from my laptop but it seems like false advertising.
You can tell I'm tired by the amount of typos in my other post...
Give 'em hell Antz and no need to apologise to anybody mate!
try broadvoice, i'm glad i read your post of 1200 a min as unlimited, ludicrious, they should be reported to the bbb or whoever has the power to shut them down for false advertising
kaiotes said: try broadvoice, i'm glad i read your post of 1200 a min as unlimited, ludicrious, they should be reported to the bbb or whoever has the power to shut them down for false advertising
The problem is, that there is nowhere listed in any of the links on the website - certainly none that I could see.
The CS agreed there was a limit of 1200 mins but could not offer any link to this situation.
The CS was then asked how this was an "unlimited" plan? After a delay (...speaking to an enlightened supervisor no doubt!) the final reply and clarification was to allow unlimited "incoming" calls
At this point, the chat session was terminated (at my end) without typing another word and the only positive point was that it made me laugh
Forget what people are commenting on with their opinions of two hours a day on the phone being excessive, and that you are looking for a freebie, etc. That is all B.S. and irrelevant.
Bottom line is, they advertised "unlimited" on their website. You signed up, and the company did not deliver what they advertised.
Sounds like deceptive and fraudulent business practices to me.
Antz
Member
posted: Apr. 10, 2005 @ 3:03a
I was trying to contact the upper management, but they seem don't let me reach them by phone. They said I can email and they will forward it to the upper management. but I don't think they will change their mind tho. It seems that they are very confident with their "terms and conditions", which is totally Not Making Any Sense.
If they attempt termination charges, you should dispute them through your credit card company.
You're right, they're wrong, and don't let any one complain about your English. I wish I could speak on language other than English half as well as you do
Do you have any student support groups where you study?
They might point you in the direction of people who can advise you about consumer issues. This is more about the principle of the offered service than actually getting the advertised unlimited plan and will more than likely be a waste of your time.
At the end of the day, the best idea is to stop the service and sign up for another Voip company.
Does your family have a broadband connection in Indonesia? If so, you could possibly use a Voip connection there and get a local "US number" for their house
Then you make "local calls" to that number on any phone
There is always more than one way to skin a cat as they say...
Antz
Member
posted: Apr. 10, 2005 @ 11:31a
ellory said: I think your best bet is to terminate service and move on to someone else.
If they attempt termination charges, you should dispute them through your credit card company.
You're right, they're wrong, and don't let any one complain about your English. I wish I could speak on language other than English half as well as you do
Thanks a lot ellory. That's what I'm gonna do if they still wanna terminate my service. I will definitely not letting them charge me for termination fee, this seems like they wanna steal customers' money. You come, you register, you pay $24.95 for 1 month service + $9 shipping charge, you use it for 2 weeks, you are terminated, and you should pay termination fee? What a "Very Innovative" Idea to start a Business.
Antz
Member
posted: Apr. 10, 2005 @ 11:38a
gtd2000 said: Do you have any student support groups where you study?
They might point you in the direction of people who can advise you about consumer issues. This is more about the principle of the offered service than actually getting the advertised unlimited plan and will more than likely be a waste of your time.
At the end of the day, the best idea is to stop the service and sign up for another Voip company.
Does your family have a broadband connection in Indonesia? If so, you could possibly use a Voip connection there and get a local "US number" for their house
Then you make "local calls" to that number on any phone
There is always more than one way to skin a cat as they say...
I haven't found that out. I think my University should have one. That's what I'm gonna do. In Indonesia, the Internet is developing, so basically there is not many cable or DSL company, and of course the services are not available in all areas (including my Fiancee and my house). I hate to use Dial Up!!! But there is nothing else I can do, except waiting for cable or DSL services.
Is there anywhere else besides BBB to report this problem online?
mike43068
Addicted Member
posted: Apr. 10, 2005 @ 1:43p
Try the FTC or FCC. I'm not sure who has authority over this.
Since THEY ARE cancelling your residential service contract, you should charge them a cancellation fee.
Antz
Member
posted: Apr. 10, 2005 @ 3:22p
mike43068 said: Try the FTC or FCC. I'm not sure who has authority over this.
Since THEY ARE cancelling your residential service contract, you should charge them a cancellation fee.
Aaaaaaaaa... That's make sense I will try FTC and FCC. Thanks
MaryMary
Senior Member
posted: Apr. 10, 2005 @ 5:23p
I can understand their pattern studies, you should call them and explain that you are not reselling their service. When we were shopping for the car we had a subscription for the unlimited reports service. We went a few times to the dealers auction, had to run through the Carfax dozens of cars in 1 evening. They send me a suspension e-mail, but after I explained what was I doing they unlocked my account. Call them up, politely and professionally explain your situation. Be calm, but firmly stand your grounds. If they wouldn't budge, explain to them that you intent to file a complaint with FCC for deceptive advertising. Do not forget to record dates and times of your conversations with the company reps, also their names and extentions. Contact an Attorney General in your state, they should have a Consumer Protection 1-800 phone and will tell you where to go next. Seems like RocketVoip taking the meaning of word "unlimited" to unheard of limits.. LOL
MaryMary said: Contact an Attorney General in your state, they should have a Consumer Protection 1-800 phone and will tell you where to go next.
If OP still has service, he won't need an 800 #
Antz
Member
posted: Apr. 10, 2005 @ 5:41p
MaryMary said: I can understand their pattern studies, you should call them and explain that you are not reselling their service. When we were shopping for the car we had a subscription for the unlimited reports service. We went a few times to the dealers auction, had to run through the Carfax dozens of cars in 1 evening. They send me a suspension e-mail, but after I explained what was I doing they unlocked my account. Call them up, politely and professionally explain your situation. Be calm, but firmly stand your grounds. If they wouldn't budge, explain to them that you intent to file a complaint with FCC for deceptive advertising. Do not forget to record dates and times of your conversations with the company reps, also their names and extentions. Contact an Attorney General in your state, they should have a Consumer Protection 1-800 phone and will tell you where to go next. Seems like RocketVoip taking the meaning of word "unlimited" to unheard of limits.. LOL
Actually, when I call them I've already tried to explain politely about my case. But their answer is always the same: "I'm sorry sir, but there is nothing I can do about it. It's all automatically detected by the system when you use the phone in a certain limit, and you should either change the plan or disconnect."
I told them about reporting to BBB, and they told me that I always has that option. It seems that their CS don't really care about it.
MaryMary
Senior Member
posted: Apr. 10, 2005 @ 6:16p
Antz said: Actually, when I call them I've already tried to explain politely about my case. But their answer is always the same: "I'm sorry sir, but there is nothing I can do about it. It's all automatically detected by the system when you use the phone in a certain limit, and you should either change the plan or disconnect."
I told them about reporting to BBB, and they told me that I always has that option. It seems that their CS don't really care about it.
They thought you are bluffing, but you have follow up on your words. They fail to do a proper contract disclosure and the customer should not be a victim of their misleading advertising. So do what you told them you would: file a complaint with all agencies possible: FTC, FCC, BBB, PlanetFeedback, etc. Get the address of their physical office, send them a letter with delivery confirmation. In all letters state the facts with dates, times and names of the people you've spoke to. Do not forget to remind them that you've signed up for the unlimited use, nowhere in the contract or documents says about any limits, no such limits were mentioned to you at the time of sign up. You didn't violate the rule they said you did, you are just not their typical customer, but this is not your problem.
Antz
Member
posted: Apr. 11, 2005 @ 2:21a
MaryMary said: Antz said: Actually, when I call them I've already tried to explain politely about my case. But their answer is always the same: "I'm sorry sir, but there is nothing I can do about it. It's all automatically detected by the system when you use the phone in a certain limit, and you should either change the plan or disconnect."
I told them about reporting to BBB, and they told me that I always has that option. It seems that their CS don't really care about it.
They thought you are bluffing, but you have follow up on your words. They fail to do a proper contract disclosure and the customer should not be a victim of their misleading advertising. So do what you told them you would: file a complaint with all agencies possible: FTC, FCC, BBB, PlanetFeedback, etc. Get the address of their physical office, send them a letter with delivery confirmation. In all letters state the facts with dates, times and names of the people you've spoke to. Do not forget to remind them that you've signed up for the unlimited use, nowhere in the contract or documents says about any limits, no such limits were mentioned to you at the time of sign up. You didn't violate the rule they said you did, you are just not their typical customer, but this is not your problem.
Thanks a lot MaryMary... I greatly appreciate your help. I will definitely do what you've told me (I've never file a complaint before) I hope this will work. Again, Thanks a lot MaryMary, I will keep updating the progress in the this forum. : )
1. To lead in the wrong direction. 2. To lead into error of thought or action, especially by intentionally deceiving.
Got it now?
AnnEX
New Member
posted: Apr. 15, 2005 @ 8:42a
overama said: I think it should be reasonable to use the phone for 2 hours a day.
Reasonable to speak to another country for 2 hours a day? Try that with any other service and see what they charge? You're basically looking for a freebie. Forget it and while you're at it, learn some English!!
Antz: Please let me know when you're going to file a complaint. I'm one of their victims as you are. I believe there are some other customers that have the same problem as we do.
Overama: You're a senior member and I believe you've been using this site for quite a while which means you're looking for deals too.
Please please don't yell to other people who look for freebie at this website. Indeed, we're paying for the service and agree to their agreement. I use the service to call my family members and my girl friend which is not for a business purpose!!
I'm wondering how many language you speak anyway and I wonder how fluent you speak that language. I think you've been racist here and that's rude!!!
Thanks and I'm sorry for my long posting and bad language. I appreciate all these people who make their comments
Antz said: gtd2000 said: jayK said: Unlimited never really means unlimited. If everyone was on the phone 2 hours per day (that's extensive use IMHO) then they would have to raise the price.
The contract says that you can't use the service in a way that "would be inconsistent with normal residential usage patterns". WQN determines what "normal residential usage" means, in its sole discretion, so I don't think you have much leverage here.
If unlimited never really means unlimited then what else does not mean what they expressly mention then?
Normal residential use for many families they days is hours of yapping about nothing to friends and family god knows where in the world from my experience.
40 mins a day is not normal by any stretch of the imagination in 2005.
30 mins is "normal" to be on hold waiting for CS with musak in the background
If they mean 1200 minutes a month then that is what should be advertised...pure n simple.
Wow... that really surprised me that there is a discussion about this before. That is Absolutely True gtd2000, that's what I mean. Why don't they just Simply State 1200 Mins per Month, then I can decide whether taking their plan or not. exactly; it is either limited or unlimited; cant be both at the same time
well the problem is they don't really state what the means of normal residential usage. I believe I use my service for personal use only (i.e., calls to my family and my gf). If I talk to them more than 1200 min, does that consider a business use? I just doesn't make any sense.
I think this matter needs to be brought to their upper level management and make sure they treat their customer as they said on the ads.
Skipping 11 Messages...
Antz
Member
posted: Apr. 27, 2005 @ 1:58a
Interesting News... RocketVoIp sent me an email couple days ago and says that They have changed the Unlimited Plan. Calling to Jakarta, Indonesia is now only limited to 1 hour/month. The other is still the same "Unlimited" (Of Course with LIMITATION)
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