2002 Volkswagen Jetta GLS TDI
55952 miles
zip=40475
color=black
Edmunds link

2002 Volkswagen Jetta GL TDI 4dr Sedan (1.9L 4cyl Turbodiesel 5M)
Trade-In Private Party Dealer Retail
National Base Price $11,911 $12,948 $14,677
Optional Equipment $359 $391 $493
4-Speed Automatic Transmission $359 $391 $493
Color AdjustmentBlack $-59 $-64 $-73
Regional Adjustmentfor Zip Code 40475 $-56 $-61 $-69
Mileage Adjustment55,952 miles $-451 $-451 $-451
Condition AdjustmentOutstanding $746 $773 $896
Total $12,450 $13,536 $15,473


Certified Used Vehicle $16,638


Black Book Report
Clean $12,050 $14,575 No body scratches, dents, rust or other signs of wear. Interior is perfect. Very low mileage. Very few vehicles qualify for Clean when a vehicle is traded in.
Average $11,325 $13,425 Body is very clean with only a few minor scratches, no dents and no rust. Interior is very clean with very little noticeable wear. Mileage less than 15,000 miles per year.
Rough $9,340 $12,050 Body is very rough with many scratches, dents, rust or hail damage. Interior is dirty and shows excessive wear. Mechanically needs work. High mileage.
Original MSRP in 2002 $18,950
Edmunds link

Yes, sorry. What should I offer and what is the most I should pay?

Mrblackpcs,

I just wanted to thank you for your advise. I ended up buying the 2005 Explorer for $20,300 out the door. The vehicle had several options on it that weren't listed in the ad so I re-ran the numbers after looking at it and "guessed" a real trade in by looking at Edmunds, KBB and NADA and local private sale ads. I did manage to get the dealer to drop the "processing fee" but he wouldn't budge any on the last price he countered with + taxes. It "booked out" at almost $25,000 at the bank when I asked them to run the numbers for me before making a final decision. Original Sticker was $35,000+ according to Ford.

I probably could have gotten it a little cheaper if I had persisted, but I already had the old vehicle sold (well my wife did..) and I was ready to either walk or buy...she really wanted it so I bit.

Well, I went to the dealer and low balled them at $14,900 T/T OTD. They came back and tried to pull a tad over 22,000 OTD and I was thinking "are you kidding??". I should've walked at that point, but then I wrote 16,500 T/T OTD, the Sales Consultant came at that point and gave me a spiel. They kept trying to negotiate w/o including T/T. Got them to $18,800 not including T/T so I walked. In retrospect I should've been a little more patient and calm and play more hardball, but it was my first time so I think my nonconfidence was showing.

When telling the Salesman you'll slip him the $100 after if you get your deal, is it beter to show it to him when telling him. The salesman I dealt with didn't seem like he was very helpful after I just told him. Maybe I wasn't showing enough confidence?? I guess we'll see if they call me back or not. Should I go back and try again? Or just try and go and get a new one at invoice?

mrblackpcs said:asianguy said:

Well, I went to the dealer and low balled them at $14,900 T/T OTD. They came back and tried to pull a tad over 22,000 OTD and I was thinking "are you kidding??". I should've walked at that point, but then I wrote 16,500 T/T OTD, the Sales Consultant came at that point and gave me a spiel. They kept trying to negotiate w/o including T/T. Got them to $18,800 not including T/T so I walked. In retrospect I should've been a little more patient and calm and play more hardball, but it was my first time so I think my nonconfidence was showing.

When telling the Salesman you'll slip him the $100 after if you get your deal, is it beter to show it to him when telling him. The salesman I dealt with didn't seem like he was very helpful after I just told him. Maybe I wasn't showing enough confidence?? I guess we'll see if they call me back or not. Should I go back and try again? Or just try and go and get a new one at invoice?

so you ended up 3k over target price?

Adding on T/T it would have ended up being just a a little over 20,000 total, so about 1,500 over the target price. I don't know how popular Elements are, so I don't know if the market is driving the price up currently. They kept trying to shove some wholesaler number into my face telling me that they could sell the car to a wholesaler for between 19,000-20,000 so that's why they weren't budging. Is that just more smoke?

mrblackpcs said:asianguy said:

mrblackpcs said:

asianguy said:

Well, I went to the dealer and low balled them at $14,900 T/T OTD. They came back and tried to pull a tad over 22,000 OTD and I was thinking "are you kidding??". I should've walked at that point, but then I wrote 16,500 T/T OTD, the Sales Consultant came at that point and gave me a spiel. They kept trying to negotiate w/o including T/T. Got them to $18,800 not including T/T so I walked. In retrospect I should've been a little more patient and calm and play more hardball, but it was my first time so I think my nonconfidence was showing.

When telling the Salesman you'll slip him the $100 after if you get your deal, is it beter to show it to him when telling him. The salesman I dealt with didn't seem like he was very helpful after I just told him. Maybe I wasn't showing enough confidence?? I guess we'll see if they call me back or not. Should I go back and try again? Or just try and go and get a new one at invoice?

so you ended up 3k over target price?

Adding on T/T it would have ended up being just a a little over 20,000 total, so about 1,500 over the target price. I don't know how popular Elements are, so I don't know if the market is driving the price up currently. They kept trying to shove some wholesaler number into my face telling me that they could sell the car to a wholesaler for between 19,000-20,000 so that's why they weren't budging. Is that just more smoke?

target was around 16500 right? either way you over paid for this vechile. If they could sell this to a wholesale they would have.

I guess I wasn't clear in my post about whether I bought it or not, sorry about that. I didn't buy it. I laughed in their faces and walked. I figured the same thing on wholesaling (even with my limited experience), that if they wanted to sell wholesale for whatever price they were showing me...why didn't they just do that? Thanks for your advice and for providing the tools, it's been a major education for me.

lucidcolour said:Me again. I walked on the last Subaru because she wouldn't budge with the dealer fees and stayed put at 17,200(including tax and tag. She said the car was sold, then said the deal fell through but to not even bother offering her a lower price, I spoke to her manager and he agreed to sell me the car for less - but at that point I didn't trust the dealer at all. On to another car ...
I have seen this car in person. It looks great and drives really nice. It has a 30 day dealer warranty. They are asking $17,995. What should I offer. Please know that I have also tried to use the used car tool - however I am unable to download, and am unable to open this kind of file.

2003 Subaru Forester XS
all weather package (heated seats), moon roof
35,000 miles
zip 14850
color - red
Edmunds-
2003 Subaru Forester XS AWD 4dr Wagon (2.5L 4cyl 5M)
Trade-In Private Party Dealer Retail
National Base Price $13,901 $15,103 $17,105
Optional Equipment $853 $929 $1,168
Power Moonroof $360 $392 $493
Brush Guard $133 $145 $182
4-Speed Automatic Transmission $360 $392 $493
Color Adjustment
Dark Red $34 $37 $42
Regional Adjustment
for Zip Code 14850 $-30 $-33 $-37
Mileage Adjustment
35,000 miles $-39 $-39 $-39
Condition Adjustment
Clean $0 $0 $0
Total $14,719 $15,997 $18,239

Black Book-

2003 Subaru Forester 4D Utility w/Prem

Condition Trade-In Value Retail Value Description
Clean $16,280 $19,075
Average $15,900 $18,250
Rough $13,510 $16,650
Original MSRP in 2003 $24,695

Tax 8.375%
Tags $50

I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND HELP!!! THANKS SO MUCH!

MSRP or ASKING PRICE= 17995
Black Book Retail=18200
EST.Invoice(Black Book Trade in)=15900
Dealer Prep=500
EST. True Invoice(Invoice + Dealer prep=16400
Tax tags(% x true invoice)+(tags=$100est)=1423
Low ball(true invoice - 2k + tax)= 15823
Target Price(Sale price - Low ball offer / 2 + low ball offer)=16909
Good Price(Target Price >Black Book Retail)=16909>18200
Too High? Anything Over=18200
Edmunds.com TMV(NOT INCLUDING TAX/TAGS)=18200

assuming this car books out at average

Hi Mrblack. I'm shopping for a '04 Lexus RX 330 AWD.
This dealer I'm talking to has this car in Dark Blue with 17,992 miles on it. His price is $33,795 + tax and tags. I haven't seen the car, just the pictures of it. The car supposedly has the Premium Plus package
What should I offer for it?

- 2004 Lexus RX 330 AWD
- 17,992 miles
- clean title and history
- zip 11762
- color: dark blue
- http://www.edmunds.com/used/2004/lexus/rx330/100243307/options.html?tmvaction=vdpresult&tid=edmunds.u.options.utmv.vdpoption.1.Lexus*

- Edmunds pricing report: trade-in $30,840, private party $32,216, dealer $34,903
- Tax is 8.625% and I don't know how much tags are. What's included in tags and how much can it be?
- Asking $33,795

How much should I offer for a similar scenario without the navigation system?
Thanks for all your help!