WDEagle said:Here's an article on Stovetop espresso makers. It lists some of the plusses and minuses of this type of maker.

WDEagle

Bear in mind that most folks don't consider a Moka pot an espresso maker at all..it's a variation somewhere between conventional percolation extraction, but with steam rather than water. A Moka pot definitely makes great coffee, esp. when compared to lesser methods, but one is simply incapable of producing a rich, thick 'pull' of wonderful oils from the grind using steam pressure...simple as that. I'm not knocking a Moka pot for what it does, as it does it very well, and very cheaply...they're GREAT for travel, for instance (beats 'shop' coffee by miles)..but if you love real espresso, you understand it's limitations.

No. You can approximate it by adding hot water to a shot for an Americano.

HokieOkie said:WDEagle said:Here's an article on Stovetop espresso makers. It lists some of the plusses and minuses of this type of maker.

WDEagle

Bear in mind that most folks don't consider a Moka pot an espresso maker at all..it's a variation somewhere between conventional percolation extraction, but with steam rather than water. A Moka pot definitely makes great coffee, esp. when compared to lesser methods, but one is simply incapable of producing a rich, thick 'pull' of wonderful oils from the grind using steam pressure...simple as that. I'm not knocking a Moka pot for what it does, as it does it very well, and very cheaply...they're GREAT for travel, for instance (beats 'shop' coffee by miles)..but if you love real espresso, you understand it's limitations.

No argument here, I just had a double shot that I made in my Baby D. I prefer an automatic or semiautomatic machine but just wanted to provide the link for others that might be considering the cheaper alternative.

WDEagle

Heads up: some locations are already selling these for $99 today. I called a few places in MA to place one on hold for me and I was told in several stores that they are all out because they are selling them at a closeout price of $99.99. I finally found one and put it on hold and went to pick it up right away. It scanned at 199 but I told them that I called several stores around the area and they where selling them at 99. The girl at the register said that they where not suppose to do it till tomorrow, but that is not a problem and they adjusted the price manually for me to $99.99. You also get a complimentary pound of cofee of your choosing essentially making this machine even lower!

Thank you for the post OP... now I need to pick up a decent burr grinder and start my addiction

What is SD?

dp004i said:I bought one for $199 about a week ago, is there any chance of them refunding the difference? I doubt it, but I'm going to call and ask tomorrow for the hell of it. I would have waited 8 days if I'd known about the reduction.

Quick review of this machine after a dozen shots in the past few hours...I scored one in Sausalito (thanks Gabriel!) early for $99, stainless steel.

Firstly, this is an absolute steal at $99..nothing more to add on this!

Pro's and Con's are pretty much intertwined, based on my experience with a semi-auto (Rancilio Sylvia) with Mazzer Mini.

This is a pressurized porta-filter, so there is no tamping your load, pressure 'packs' your load for you...this is difficult to get used to if you're a seasoned pro used to doing everything manually. This means a significant element of control is taken away, but so the same with automatic machines as well. This essentially means the grind must be within spec to get the desired 25-30 second pull for 2oz, and grind-surfing will be routine with this machine moreso than a machine w/o a pressurized porta filter. Other quibbles also involving this cheesy porta-filter..it feels cheap (spring-loaded?), and I'm afraid to de-puck on my knockbox for fear of breaking it! Plastic parts on a porta-filter? What's up wit dat? I guess I've got to follow the instructions and 'carefully spoon out the spent grounds', as there is no real puck. This porta-filter is thin metal, cannot hold any heat, and attaches to a chintzy group head, also thin metal (no brass here!). With no significant metal mass to hold heat, we have to rely soley on the boiler to deliver proper temps during extraction, and afaik no boiler is designed with this in mind, just a thermostat with great variability between on and off. All of this means no true temperature stability, no consistency between shots, and hit-n-miss esspresso quality. If you're just gonna add milk and sugar, this may not be an issue.

Overall, the design on the machine appears top-notch, a tad too much plastic for my tastes, but that's subjective. Machine heated up quite fast (since there's no metal-mass to pre-heat) and after initial priming, was ready for a shot in a few minutes...I keep Sylvia on 24/7 so I don't have to wait for her to heat up every morning, which would take approx. 1/2 hour. My grind (Sulawesi roasted to Full City+ last night) was just right, having been set earlier for shots with Sylvia, and my first shots were quite impressive-heavy crema, lots of oils, and rich flavor...may even be better tomorrow with another days rest on the beans. Successive shots however began to show the variability one will come to expect on this machine..same grind for a few, then began to notice some sourness. Tightened up the grind a tad to correct, and pulled few more. By the time I was all done, I'd say better than half my shots were not only drinkable, but very good. A few shots were just okay, and several were throw-away as I was surfing grind. FWIW, I was dosing the filter full, leveling off with the scooper handle, and doing a quick downward tap to pack the filter, not a tamp...the instructions say to leave 1/8 to 1/4 inch headroom..and a quick tap gave me this easily.

This machine is great for $99...ridiculous @ $350..it's MSRP. It's far better than a steamtoy, a moka pot, and of course drip, and is a fine starter machine paired with a decent grinder, but will leave the aficianado wanting more in no time at all..temp. stability, and a real port-filter among them.

Edit: Have discovered a REAL Portafilter exists for this model thru Saeco..will post more on this soon. Also, I love the swivel steaming wand...very cool touch, wish Sylvia had this!

Non-pressurized PF HERE

PF porn and mods HERE scroll down to see PPF turned into regular PF.

Ulka#5 pump rehab and porn HERE

Oh..I forgot another tidbit:
The DeLonghi Magnifica is ALSO GOING ON CLEARANCE---$450!!!..tomorrow officially, but as we've seen with a little sweetness, managers are giving up the goods. Was told MSRP was 1400.00, but I'm not certain which exact model,etc. as I'm totally disinterested in an automatic due to espresso quality concerns.

Gorby911 said:HokieOkie said:Quick review of this machine after a dozen shots in the past few hours...I scored one in Sausalito (thanks Gabriel!) early for $99, stainless steel.

Firstly, this is an absolute steal at $99..nothing more to add on this! ...


Without quoting everything - thanks for a great review!! And WOW, do I have a long way to go This is really my fist espresso machine (well, I had a real cheapo $30 one before which broke) so a lot of what you said is way over my head. One thing for sure though, I guess I personally should be satisfied with this thing for a while

Yes...this machine is perfect for you, for the time being...it makes fine shots with only a little skill req'd. Enjoy!

Devyan1 said:HokieOkie said:Oh..I forgot another tidbit:
The DeLonghi Magnifica is ALSO GOING ON CLEARANCE---$450!!!..tomorrow officially, but as we've seen with a little sweetness, managers are giving up the goods. Was told MSRP was 1400.00, but I'm not certain which exact model,etc. as I'm totally disinterested in an automatic due to espresso quality concerns.

any more info?

The manual @ *$ says it's the 3500:
*$ Manual for Magnifica

This is a slightly older model than the 44/4500 models:
Mag3500 @ DeLonghi