Starbucks Closeout sale - Barista espresso maker for $99, Delonghi Magnifica for $449

samjoandco said:

Which screw is Leroy referring to in the post above?

the big round tool with a screw bit on the end is used to tighten/loosen/unscrew a metal plate on the underside of where the coffee comes out (when the handle is not installed, of course).

FOLKS! You MUST have a decent espresso grinder. Drip grind WILL NOT work. Solis Maestro DJSpray mentioned is absolute bare minimum for any espresso machine.
You MUST grind AT THE TIME you are preparing your shot..can't buy pre-ground coffee, even out of a Lavazza can, and expect fresh crema espresso..even vacuum-sealed grind oxidizes too fast to retain essential oils and flavor (the whole point behind espresso). 25-30 second pulls are absolutely essential to have a full-flavored cup...the first few seconds are usually occupied by the shower screen wetting the puck (in this case, wetting the 'sludge mass'! ), so the instant you hit the brew button, you need to be counting/timing the shot, since you've just exposed the grind to hot water. If you can squeeze out a shot of 1-1.5 oz. in 15-20 seconds with no blonding, you've just done a 'ristretto' shot, aka 'shortshot'. Enthusiasts shoot quality double-ristretto, or regular double-pulls for their own consumption, as a coffee bar/barista will generally have a routine for production purposes/speed..often a single or double automatic(timed)pull at whatever grind the grinder happens to be at in that moment. Better bars/baristas are always tweaking their grind as they notice the shots behaviour..as home enthusiasts, it's pretty much all we do..adjust grind repeatedly until we can 'match' the qualities of the oil/oxidized state of the beans at that moment. The grind setting I tweak to in the next hour will not work on the same beans this evening..I'll need to tweak the grind to compensate for the state of the beans tonight. Insane?...yes...most likely. Best you'll ever have?...yes...most likely, but EVERY roast, EVERY pull is a new and exciting experience, and that god-shot is always right around the corner. Kinda like life itself, isn't it? You get out of it what you put into it.

Chisand said: This may be a really silly question but how much coffee are you putting in? You don't have the pod basket in, do you?
i put 1 tbsp of coffee. this was enough for my earlier krups to make 4 cups of strong espresso

samjoandco said:


Do you tighten the screw for slower brewing or loosen it?

my guess is you tighten it, constricting waterflow thereby slowing throughput, and thus slowing brew time.

i need to play with this thing myself.
ive been brewing big double-shots, but i need to make sure my brew time is right since there's no other way to know if you're letting it go for too long --- or is there another way?

samjoandco said: matthewf01 said: samjoandco said:

Which screw is Leroy referring to in the post above?
the big round tool with a screw bit on the end is used to tighten/loosen/unscrew a metal plate on the underside of where the coffee comes out (when the handle is not installed, of course).

Do you tighten the screw for slower brewing or loosen it?

There is a lot of weird information in this thread. As the poster pointed out above, the problem you are experiencing is due to not having the correct grind. The grinder is actually much more important than the espresso machine since getting the grind correct is critical. If you are trying to use pre-ground coffee your results will not be that great. If the shot is coming out too quickly then you are using too coarse of a grind. Those pressure inserts are supposed to help but most people do not like them. The only way to get truly good espresso is to grind the beans yourself, get the grind correct and tamp with the proper pressure.

The screw for the brew head screen does nothing to control the brew length. Don't do anything with it. It is there to keep the brew head screen on. The tool is provided so you can periodically clean the brew screen. The only factors that affect the length of time it takes to pull a shot are the coarseness of the grind and (to a lesser extent) the pressure you've tamped at.

The Starbucks DVD guy is Pulling the at the same speed as I am.

Leroy said: The Starbucks DVD guy is Pulling the at the same speed as I am.

I have no need to watch the DVD..misleading, and will instill bad habits, trust me! You NEED 25-30 seconds, accomplished with a decent grinder. Blonding is only acceptable at the final few seconds. The entire pour should be a nice reddish foam, with thin 'mousetails' as it fills your cup.

sholling said: For those interested and lucky enough to get the Food Network - Alton Brown's episode about getting the getting the perfect espresso brew airs twice this week. For those that don't maybe a friend will record it for you. I've seen this episode before and if you can deal with his slightly manic style it's pretty interesting.

Good Eats - Episode EA1018 - "Espress Yourself" - 30 minutes
We could all use some education about true espresso. Join Alton Brown as he explains how the beans, the grind, the machine and the hand make up the essential components.Airs
August 30, 2007 11:00 PM ET/PT
August 31, 2007 2:00 AM ET/PT

Espress Yourself

Has anybody figured out how to keep the milk from caking on the wand?

Youtube-3parts

samjoandco said: Chisand said: This may be a really silly question but how much coffee are you putting in? You don't have the pod basket in, do you?
i put 1 tbsp of coffee. this was enough for my earlier krups to make 4 cups of strong espresso

4 cups, I only get one shot from two tablespoons, perhaps I'm wasting my pilon and cafe' bustello.
I find using these preground espressos works better than trying to grind my own, but i do have organic beans I grind up too. Now the krups isn't even a pressure machine so maybe thats why you can run four cups out of it.
and whats this abot mousetails and cameltoes in my cup? never seen them before, just an occasional roach that crawled in there and got brewed to taste floating in my cup.

(just kidding, lol) though a friend once made me a cup and had a cockaroach floating in the cup eeeyewh!

I use this burr grinder: Krups Burr Coffee Grinder I set it to smallest setting. Seems to produce very fine (and appears consistent) grind. But what do I know. Do I HAVE to get a more expensive one or should this one be ok..?

HokieOkie said: Youtube-3parts

Just watched..couple of observations:

Grinder-he points to the innards and shows the chute and says beans go in here, when in fact they come out the chute, beans are fed in above (gravity) the burrs.

Machine-He bypasses a Sylvia (or Gaggia knockoff?), and selects a PPF model, like we have in this thread (Barista), then proceeds to teach us tamping, which for all intents is pointless with a PPF (light tamp perfectly acceptable) as the PPF dictates the pressure/extraction rate of the grind. Had he chosen the Sylvia, he'd need an entire show just to describe how to get a great shot from it!

Grind-His grind is not fresh, as even with a PPF, he should have had rich crema flow fill his glasses, ending with at least a third crema. Notice the watery drips coming from the PPF at the end..a sure sign of a stale grind, or coarse grind (which makes sense since we just watched him tamp it to 50lbs and he still had low crema despite proper timing). The thin crema he achieved (and what we will also achieve from time to time with the PPF of the Barista) is a direct result of the PPF, not proper extraction. That is why I said earlier in the thread that grind-surfing will be needed to maintain a consistency with quality shots, with thick real crema.

Still, a good primer for introducing espresso to new Barista owners.

HokieOkie said: HokieOkie said: Youtube-3parts

Just watched..couple of observations:

Grinder-he points to the innards and shows the chute and says beans go in here, when in fact they come out the chute, beans are fed in above (gravity) the burrs.

Machine-He bypasses a Sylvia (or Gaggia knockoff?), and selects a PPF model, like we have in this thread (Barista), then proceeds to teach us tamping, which for all intents is pointless with a PPF (light tamp perfectly acceptable) as the PPF dictates the pressure/extraction rate of the grind. Had he chosen the Sylvia, he'd need an entire show just to get a describe how to get a great shot from it!

Grind-His grind is not fresh, as even with a PPF, he should have had rich crema flow fill his glasses, ending with at least a third crema. Notice the watery drips coming from the PPF at the end..a sure sign of a stale grind, or coarse grind (which makes sense since we just watched him tamp it to 50lbs and he still had low crema despite proper timing). The thin crema he achieved (and what we will also achieve from time to time with the PPF of the Barista) is a direct result of the PPF, not proper extraction. That is why I said earlier in the thread that grind-surfing will be needed to maintain a consistency with quality shots, with thick real crema.

Still, a good primer for introducing espresso to new Barista owners.

Dude you should write a guide.

Here is a vid of shots...this one from Livia 90, a semi-auto w/ commercial grouphead and portafilter (we do not have this on the Barista), that shows well the role of timing with shot quality.

The fast shot was gound too coarse for beanstate, and/or improper tamp pressure. The slow shot suffers from grind too fine for beanstate, and/or improper/uneven tamping..also likely since you can notice the pull favor one side over the other as the shot progresses. He nails the third shot, with even tamp, rich crema at the proper duration. I would have tossed the first fast shot into the garbage, added water (Americano) or milk to the slow shot to keep it drinkable, and savored the final perfect shot. The Barista is capable of shots like this, but only with proper grind, bean freshness, and technique, allowing for the PPF, which will cause some thin aerated crema at the end of shot. Further research on this model is beginning to yield some more shortcomings with this model, namely the boiler not quite reaching 202F, but I'll need to hack my thermocouple to verify if this is a problem on my model..the sourness I was getting in yesterdays review might be explained by this.

Edit: Also, I finally attempted to froth, with less than ideal results..I suspect the boiler was exhausted after the first 35-40 seconds(light swithed back on during steaming), despite starting as soon as the light switched on initially...boiler capacity may limit frothing to only a cup of milk or less.

Edit:#2 (caffeine-driven) This shot vid also contrasts with Alton's vid earlier, in that Alton mistates to start counting once once you see drip...obviously incorrect as once you throw the brew switch, your grind is in instant contact with water from the shower screen and you are indeed extracting the puck immediately(aka preinfusion)..despite any 8-10 second delay from first drip. Following Alton's statement, you'd rarely arrive at a drinkable shot on the Livia 90.

why don't people just use the expresso pods sold at starbucks? seems to save alot of hassle and $$$ on a new grinder.

why don't people just use the expresso pods sold at starbucks? seems to save alot of hassle and $$$ on a new grinder.

We would go broke that's why!

I have the gasket with my portafilter. I think you would really know if it was missing.

HokieOkie, thanks for all the links and information. I am wired today because of all the testing. I figure that once I learn what I need to know about the cycle, I should be good going forward.

The difference in the draw time does come down to the grind. I have been looking into a grinder and I like this one here
That would be if I can find it for under a 100.00. Yes there will be a difference. But I am not in a hurry. I pulled some pretty good shots today. Overall, the drink taste better than the Starbucks in town. So I completed my first part of the mission.

Leroy said:
The difference in the draw time does come down to the grind. I have been looking into a grinder and I like this one here
That would be if I can find it for under a 100.00. Yes there will be a difference.

I'm also looking into the same grinder, but the black model since it's $89 everywhere instead of $139 for stainless steel or chrome. That grinder gets very good reviews.

I've had my Barista for a week now and still haven't made a shot that seems strong enough to me in my capuccinno. I upped to two shots and use less milk than I used to with a steamer and still it's not strong enough! I guess I can blame that on the grind (?). My 11 year old Mr. Coffee burr grinder probably isn't cutting it (although it's been a workhorse for daily use that long). I have it on the finest setting, but it's not really the consistency of sugar.

djspray said: My friend at Starbucks just told me that her store in Columbus,OH just put them on sale further for $50. I don't know when this madness will stop. I'm going to swing by mine on the way home and see if they changed there at all. They must really be trying to get rid of them...

I am trying to substantiate this, but having a hard time. Anyone else find anything out about this?

likeyakn0w said: djspray said: My friend at Starbucks just told me that her store in Columbus,OH just put them on sale further for $50. I don't know when this madness will stop. I'm going to swing by mine on the way home and see if they changed there at all. They must really be trying to get rid of them...

I am trying to substantiate this, but having a hard time. Anyone else find anything out about this?

I just got back from the McCarthy Ranch location (Milpitas, CA) and it was $99. I couldn't pass up this deal and grabbed the last stainless one they had. So no further discount as of an hour ago.

What was left was two black, one demo'ed and one just dusty, both no box nor manuals. The gal said she'd take only 15% off these before she remembered that she had grabbed the SS new in box one from the Great Mall location and it was in the back of her car.

So using $35 in free GCs from the free forum, got the Barista for about $78.

They also had a couple new in box DeLongi's (sp?) for $450 still there if anyone is interested.

I have a Magnifica on hold for me in Kirkland WA ($450). I have changed my mind. If anyone wants it, I can let one of you know what/where etc. I will give you my name, store location and Partner I worked with (she had to call to get it).
Indycanard.

Anybody know of a Starbucks in the Portland, Oregon area that still has the Baristas? I've had no luck finding one, whaddya expect from a latte, machiato, mocha sipping state like Oregon.