Microsoft Live Cashback Denied Discussion – legitimate complaints only please

I wanted to start a thread that could be a central place of discussion for those that have had legitimate problems with Microsoft’s CashBack program. This is specifically for those of us who have NOT broken the terms of service, but have been denied CashBack anyway.

The point is to help provide information to one another in an effort to get the CashBack that we have earned.

Please keep your messages on topic.

Please post your experience in this thread if you have had problems such as those below.

• Received emails stating CashBack has been denied (sham transactions, TOC violation, etc)
• Requested CashBack and waited well past the promised payment date
• Contacted both Microsoft and Paypal only to have been sent in circles, with each denying responsiblity
• Bought gold, coins, and/or sold these items
• Bought more than one of a particular item
• Any other problems with Microsoft trying to withhold your CashBack
• Especially those who have successfully fought with Microsoft and received your CashBack

Also, if you have posted your problems in another thread, please repeat your post here so we can consolidate the information.

With a focused and diligent group effort we should be successful in preventing Microsoft, PayPal, and eBay from exploiting and disregarding us.

Edit by Moderator: Thank you for your participation. Please note that there is also discussion about this topic Here.

I started the program in July and made many purchases of gold coins and other items. Some of them I sold, some I didn’t. All transactions were from people I didn’t know.

At this point there were no limits on the CashBack you could receive, and no limits on the number of eBay accounts you could create. We were encouraged specifically by the CSRs to create multiple accounts.

Ebays rules, which superceded those terms laid out by MS, allowed for the buying and SELLING of purchased goods.

My payment requests (actual “pay me” requests after the 60 day wait) date back to September 6th. I received the first one for $221, and have been denied all of the following:

September 17, 2008 $1062.75
October 4, 2008 $3660.99
October 10, 2008 $944.75
November 4, 2008 $4890.75
November 5, 2008 $1200.00

As you can see it’s approaching 4 MONTHS since my initial purchases. I have contacted MS and PP repeatedly only to be told that they 1)can’t help 2)aren’t responsible 3)are working on it.

ok, I'm going to join the new thread also:

I have received casback twice since the program started to my paypal account with no problems.

I now have a new CashBack available and clicked the "Pay me" button. I waited 7 days and then got an email that said:

"Hello, ULTIMATE!

We need your help to complete your Live Search CashBack payment. When we tried to pay you, we couldn't verify the PayPal account details below..."

I verified the paypal address (which was always correct to begin with), and clicked the "Pay me". 7 days later, I got the same email from CashBack saying they weren't able to process my payment.

I've sent 3 emails to support and haven't heard anything back yet.

Finally today, I clicked "Pay me" again and chose a different PayPal account and am now waiting for another 7 days!

This sucks. There is no way to contact them other than email, which they never reply to.

was it "denied" for a violation of ToS, or was it like mine where they keep saying you need to verify your paypal address?

hedwigdaowl said: I had one "Pay Me" request denied too. No response from live email support.

I've got a CashBack story that appears to have been resolved - still waiting on the cash to actually show up, but it has been promised as of last week - so here's what happened and what I did to get here...

I would caution anyone reading this NOT to COPY my language into your complaint - I really doubt there's more than one or two people working BBB cases at MS, and if they suspect you're being helped by internet forums they'll probably trashcan your complaint and you'll need to go to another level - either your state's attorney general/consumer affairs office or hire a lawyer to get your money. Use you own words, explain YOUR situation, maybe it'll help you, possibly it could help MS get their act together.

This is long, but I wanted to provide some detail of my situation in case others may be similar. I'd also like to say that my wife and I each have 1 live/eBay/paypal accounts, the eBay/paypal accounts are several years old with no funny history. We did not use any "cached links", we didn't know the seller we bought from, and we bought gold without CashBack as well as with CashBack - at the time the limit was 3 transactions per person and that's all we did. We never sold anything on eBay during this time period. In fact all of the searches we did to generate the CashBack "gleam" were for "gold coin", so it's not like we "gamed the system" by searching for one item and buying another...anyway, here it is...

In the beginning of July my wife and I purchased gold coins using live CashBack. I bought 2, she bought 3, all from the same seller. The seller had thousands of good feedbacks, and had been selling gold on eBay for years. ( this might have been part of the problem from paypal's perspective, but hey, he had the best price and seemed reliable) Also, at some point AFTER our purchases, the seller was bounced off eBay and is "no longer a registered user"... Paypal's "fraud department" called my wife the day after her purchase to make sure her account wasn't hijacked.

The CashBack posted properly, sat in pending for 60 days, and I requested "pay me" on Sept 6th. Mine came, no problem. I began using live online chat to check on hers after a couple of weeks because it didn't ever post to her paypal account. MS Live chat kept telling me there was a "system issue" on the day I requested CashBack, and just keep waiting.

On Sept 18th, my wife received an email from "live CashBack team" stating

"We regret to inform you that Microsoft is unable to pay the CashBack savings you requested due to a violation of the terms of service of eBay or PayPal. If you have any additional questions, please contact PayPal directly, 1-888-221-1161."

I spoke to MS live AFTER the email was sent ( I never saw it) and they kept telling me to keep waiting. I "escalated" the case with MS live and then the live support guys started telling me they couldn't do anything since the case was escalated, and the "super reps" would contact me later, no ETA for when that would happen was given.

I opened a BBB case against MS, as a "contract dispute" on 9/30, requesting my CashBack

They responded on 10/17 to the BBB with...

The information provided in your complaint was forwarded to PayPal's CashBack Team for further review. We have been informed that eBay or PayPal have found a violation of the Terms of Service and Microsoft is unable to pay the CashBack you requested. We have asked the PayPal CashBack Team to contact you directly to discuss your concerns or you may call PayPal at 1-888-221-1161 and ask for the CashBack Team. I have enclosed the section of the Service Agreement that applies and also included a link to the site. http://help.live.com/help.aspx?project=tou&mkt=en-us We apologize that your issue could not be resolved as you expected. Although I understand this offers no comfort to your situation, at this point, there is nothing further we can do.

They also cut-n-pasted the ENTIRE TOS to the response.

On the same day I got an email from live customer support,

Thank you for contacting Live Search CashBack Customer Support. We have verified that PayPal has denied your payment under section 17 of the Terms of Use. We have also asked that PayPal contact you to further explain their decision. If you are not contacted by a PayPal representative, please feel free to follow-up directly with cashteam@microsoft.com.

I responded to the BBB with...

Microsoft's response is unacceptable. They have still not provided a reason for denying payment. Referring me to another company (eBay/paypal) is unacceptable since my contract is with Microsoft, not paypal. If Microsoft thinks I violated the terms of the contract they should say what I did, not just quote the whole contract. Microsoft's response is pure boilerplate and does not address my complaint in the slightest. Microsoft, please pay me the money you OWE me.

Microsoft responded with...

I received your follow up response dated 10/20/2008, regarding the above referenced Better Business Bureau case. Please allow me to include the specific part of Section 17 of the Service Agreement that applies in this case: ''There may be additional limitations on purchases on certain merchant sites, and those limitations will be disclosed on the merchant site. Your participation in the Live Search CashBack service on such merchant sites will be subject to these terms and conditions as well as any additional ones disclosed on the merchant site. In the event of a conflict between any of these terms and conditions and those disclosed on the merchant site, the ones disclosed on the merchant site will apply and control.'' When you participate in the Live CashBack program you are subject to the Terms and Conditions of the merchant site as well as the Live CashBack program. As stated above, in the event of a conflict, the terms on the merchant site will apply. When your request was received, information was sent to PayPal/eBay for verification. The CashBack Team at PayPal indicated that the CashBack was denied due to a violation of their Terms of Service. This information is proprietary and not shared with Microsoft. Therefore we have asked PayPal to contact you directly to discuss your concerns and also advised that you could contact PayPal and ask for their CashBack Team to address this matter. We regret that your customer service experience has not been to your satisfaction and apologize for any frustration this has caused.

This kinda made me mad, so I responded to Microsoft's response...(names obliterated to protect the innocent!)

(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.) I called Paypal today, the 24th of Oct. 2008, at 2pm. I spoke with CXXX, JXXX ( a supervisor) and TXXX. They all agreed that I had NOT violated Paypal's TOS, in direct contradiction to Mrs. XXX's response. They said my transactions were "flagged" because the SELLER "may have done something fraudulent" and HE was being "investigated" by Paypal. Mrs XXXXX said in both of her previous responses that she would have "the CashBack team at Paypal" contact me. It's been a week, they haven't done so. I did nothing wrong. I honored my end of the contract. Microsoft has not. Microsoft did not lift a finger to investigate this issue - according to the 3 people I spoke to at Paypal, there is NO "live CashBack team". I want help with this issue. Microsoft could resolve this issue with a simple phone call to Paypal, but evidently that is far too much effort. If anyone at the BBB can help, please contact me.

on the 6th, I got the following from the BBB...

We received your follow-up response from the Better Business Bureau of Alaska, Oregon and Western Washington regarding the above-referenced case number. When the report was received your case was reopened and we once again contacted PayPal on your behalf and asked for a thorough investigation of the denied transactions. PayPal re-inspected the account and was unable to confirm their prior determination of collusion on the transactions in question. We have been notified that PayPal is reversing their determination. Due to this reversal, we will ensure that the previously rejected rebates are re-submitted for payout, and will remove your accounts from the ban list. Please note, due to privacy reasons, PayPal/eBay does not share any proprietary information with Microsoft. If you have any questions or concerns regarding this matter, you will need to contact PayPal. We appreciate your patience while resolving this situation and apologize for any inconvenience. Sincerely,

So, evidently Paypal thought we were "colluding" with some dude from 1000 miles away??

I don't know who to believe as to why the CashBack never showed up - from my perspective it was a nightmare scenario for me to buy @ over spot price and get ALL of my CashBack denied, especially when I was so careful to follow all the rules. I am still pretty mad that all these people "investigated" the matter and denied me time after time, and I also think it was more luck than anything else that someone at paypal finally told me the issue was the seller and not me - had it not been for that, I believe I would have had to sue to get my money.

Anyway, as of this minute, no money in the account, but I'm hopeful, and I would recommend the BBB 100% as an option to anyone who followed the rules and got ran over by eBay/paypal/microsoft, it looks like MS actually trys to resolve issues @ BBB.

And thanks to dealforme for starting the thread - I see you're already getting reds from the MS Fanboys and shills, people need to know that "unfortunately there is nothing more we can do" is a canned response from a drone, and there IS something else they can do - PAY UP!

bryanus said: Nice work! But what I don't understand is how you were even able to maintain a dialog with them! I have sent 3 emails in the past 3 days and haven't even received an auto-reply yet!

There MUST be a way to get through to someone at M$ directly. Does anyone have any ideas??!!

In my case, the money was not denied. It's ready to be paid to me! But they keep saying my PayPal address is wrong, but it's not!! I've used the same address for like 5 years! And they paid me twice before already to that same account! WTF??!!

Use the live chat

they told me that they didn't registered a click thru their site and that even though i bought something from their vendor i didn't have a claim and so wouldn't pay me.

SuperET said: they told me that they didn't registered a click thru their site and that even though i bought something from their vendor i didn't have a claim and so wouldn't pay me.

Was this an eBay purchase or a purchase through another site? I'm honestly not that familiar with the Live discounts going through other sites, I've only done it once.

Do they have banners like eBay?

dealforme said: comprx said: dealforme said: My payment requests (actual “pay me” requests after the 60 day wait) date back to September 6th. I received the first one for $221, and have been denied all of the following:

September 17, 2008 $1062.75
October 4, 2008 $3660.99
October 10, 2008 $944.75
November 4, 2008 $4890.75
November 5, 2008 $1200.00 Are those are the CashBack amounts or the purchase amounts for which you should have received a percentage in Cash Back? If the latter, what were the Cash Back amounts claimed?


Those actually my CashBack amounts. Yes, I'm aware that I spent a LOT of money. I don't need to hear it about the amounts - I behaved according to all the rules, just on a bigger scale than most. Remember, in the beginning there were no limits.

I am sorry you do not want to hear about amounts but you are out over $11,700. How did you get there on a $200 cap and 12 limit cap per account?

I think you need to get on the phone. Good luck.

So, I just found out about the live CashBack 10 days ago. What is in the ToS that you can't do that is commonly happening? Reselling? Because I am planning on do that. eBay states that it does not limit the reason for your purchases, and states an example of buying to resell. Am I reading that right?
"eBay does not limit purchases eligible for CashBack Rewards by the purpose for which they are acquired (e.g., purchases acquired for resale)."
Honestly, I am a little freaked out now because as of last night, my CashBack acount hit $2400!
I hit this amount with 13 transactions between two eBay accounts. It was suppose to go to two different Live accounts, but somehow they would only go to the same live account even though the eBay accounts had different names and email addresses. How did that happen?
What are the rules on Husband and Wife accounts? Can't we each get our $2500/12/$200 max?

Also, what is all this about gold coins? Were you buying gold coins, getting 25% off, and then cashing them in at the bank?

I purchased gift cards and stamps and maxed out my CB to $2500. At one point near the middle of all this I got an email from paypal saying that they invalidated my CashBack and took an action to contact MS about invalidating it due to "sham transactions"...which isn't true. Purchased from all different sellers, and broke none of the TOSs. However, that was more than a month ago and I was beginning to think that my CB was all OK. Now I'm wondering if they will let me wait until I request CashBack and then they will deny me. I would lose about $950 if I don't receive any of my rebates. Still have about 30 days to go.

I'm quite sure it was discontinued as well...not as though it was any help though. I was told that a manager would contact me within a couple days of talking to them the second time...haven't heard anything after 3 weeks. I am simply trying to get 250 from one purchase that I made legit back in late June, and it is sick how big of a deal they make out of it. The most common response I got was that my messages were going to be forwarded to the "technical team" and that I would hear back within 48-72 hours...never heard back anything from 3-4 responses such as that. After waiting the whole 60 days to cash out, I then was able to make a request for the cash out, waited 14 more days (their stated max), and then received an email stating I wasn't getting my Cash Back due to violation of the TOS. However, it seems like everyone I talk to can't give me a specific reason and "they don't have access to that knowledge". It really is a huge scam they are trying to pull. I think I am just about to contact the BBB about this whole thing, seems that is the only way to truly make them care.

dealforme said: comprx said: dealforme said: My payment requests (actual “pay me” requests after the 60 day wait) date back to September 6th. I received the first one for $221, and have been denied all of the following:

September 17, 2008 $1062.75
October 4, 2008 $3660.99
October 10, 2008 $944.75
November 4, 2008 $4890.75
November 5, 2008 $1200.00 Are those are the CashBack amounts or the purchase amounts for which you should have received a percentage in Cash Back? If the latter, what were the Cash Back amounts claimed?


Those actually my CashBack amounts. Yes, I'm aware that I spent a LOT of money. I don't need to hear it about the amounts - I behaved according to all the rules, just on a bigger scale than most. Remember, in the beginning there were no limits.So all the purchases for which you were denied came before they imposed account limits? That doesn't sound right. The final two requests would cover purchase around the end of August/early September, no? Weren't the account limits in place by then or no? Were they split across multiple MS Live accounts?

Note that I am not criticizing -- just wondering if there is any legitimate reason for them to deny the CB, which seems to be in the spirit of this thread.

comprx said: So all the purchases for which you were denied came before they imposed account limits? That doesn't sound right. The final two requests would cover purchase around the end of August/early September, no? Weren't the account limits in place by then or no? Were they split across multiple MS Live accounts?

Note that I am not criticizing -- just wondering if there is any legitimate reason for them to deny the CB, which seems to be in the spirit of this thread.

(edited)
Okay, I was finally able to access the live webpage. My last purchase was on Sept. 5th. Which would coincide with the 60 days to November 5th "pay me" date. But if you look at the other thread, you'll see that there was no mention of a $2500 limit in the terms until Sept. 19th.

So they modified the terms I would think somewhere around the 19th. As an absolute worst case, I would say no earlier than Sept. 1 because I don't think it would have gone unnoticed for 3 weeks. So as you can see most all of my purchases were made before the limits were imposed.

Crazykole5 said: I'm quite sure it was discontinued as well...not as though it was any help though......It really is a huge scam they are trying to pull.

Exactly, they were no help at all. Canned answers and empty promises. And things were getting worse. In the beginning you could talk to someone in 15 minutes, then longer, then longer, next an hour, and finally nothing.

We have to try everything we can think of to prevent MS from scamming us. I know contacting the BBB has been discussed, so I think that's the first place we should all start. I'm going to be contacting them by this weekend.

Everyone with legitimate complains needs to file complaints with the BBB.

klozoff said: rzyzzy said: The million dollar question is can they prove that you knew the seller, or had some agreement to "create" an auction for the express purpose of getting the rebate. In my mind, in a "sham transaction", I wouldn't expect to see you actually pay for an item, and I wouldn't expect a seller to ship an item. If you bought something from someone you didn't know, paid for and received the item, the seller paid the fees, etc - it doesn't seem like a "sham transaction" and the burden would be on Paypal to prove that the transaction was a sham. Which I think might take some real effort on Paypal's part, effort I wouldn't expect them to actually expend, since Microsoft is the one paying the bills anyway.

Unfortunately Paypal doesn't feel they need to prove anything, they take action then claim the reasons for it are proprietary and can't be discussed. It seems from your BBB response that that's the runaround they even give MSFT when they ask about denied transactions, if their response is to be believed.

Have you had any change in status of the CashBack you successfully complained about? You seem to be the only one on these boards with an apparently successful appeal against a denial, so please keep us posted.

Yeah, coming from a customer-service background the canned answers are REALLY tortured.
"Proprietary" = "I don't know why and don't care to FIND OUT why",
"Nothing more we can do" = "We don't wanna"

Bottom line is it's the same as any other business transaction with a large corporation, they'll let the drones try to blow off as many as possible, but when you go to the BBB, your state's attorney general/consumer affairs board, or hire an attorney, then the grown-ups all stand around going "Whocoodanode?", and "it was all just a misunderstanding"....

Just checked now and still no' money...

comprx said: nautique said: ShaneM: So did you buy $10,000 of cards and stamps to resell? Did you know that eBay's TOS say you can only sell one gift card per week with a max of $500 per card?Outdated information. See here.

Hmm, you are correct. The funny thing is that I read that last week on eBay site when I was looking at listing a gift card and they told me to read the gift card TOS... Thanks for the new info.

nautique said: I am a little freaked out now because as of last night, my CashBack acount hit $2400!
I hit this amount with 13 transactions between two eBay accounts.So you and your wife were selling each other stuff ... good luck getting your CashBack

I went back to check my live account. My single eBay transaction (<$5 CB) has disappeared from the pending category! I'm now very leary of using this thing. I've had no problems using FW's CashBack system. I'm waiting for a reply. If the response isn't satisfactory, I won't be using them again. This is ridiculous!

glockophile said: comprx said: nautique said: ShaneM: So did you buy $10,000 of cards and stamps to resell? Did you know that eBay's TOS say you can only sell one gift card per week with a max of $500 per card?Outdated information. See here.
Actually, not outdated, just conflicting information. I posted a gift card transaction last night using eBay's web site (not turbolister), and received a warning that only one gift card was allowed per week. This was after I had already seen the site you linked to. I will post the exact language the next time I list another gift card...
Yeah it is conflicting information. However, as posted and discussed in the other thread, it is one per week and the listing script that you see when listing a gift card simply hasn't been updated yet.
I spoke to a Platinum Level Powerseller representative who confirmed it is one at a time NOT one per week. As others have stated, their script that appears when you list a gift card simply hasn't been updated. The policy was changed sometime in Aug. or Sept. I agree that they really need to get this updated in their listing scripts as it has caused some confusion and is misleading.

email from eBay confirming this:

"Dear XXXXX,

It was a pleasure speaking with you this afternoon. As provided over the
phone regarding the Gift Card Policy. Checking with my Trust and Safety
team you are able to list a gift card on the site one at a time. Example
if you list a gift card on the site and it sells, you are able to at
that point list another gift card.

If you have further questions or concerns at any time. Please let us
know. I will be happy to assist you with any further questions you may
have.

Thank you for being a valuable member of the eBay community. Have a
wonderful time shopping and selling on eBay!

Sincerely,
XXXXX

eBay Customer Support"

Also, has anyone received any CashBack payouts to paypal within the last week or so? Have some payout requests that have been pending for almost 2 weeks now, although I have not received any denial emails and have received all other cashbacks just fine so far from the past 4 months.

I have had the same problem. I purchased watches from Ashford.com and earned Cash Back of $2531.00, they approved my CashBack. However while I cashed out my check through paypal, I sent it to my nephew's paypal account. (Since I am uncomfortable using paypal) He already has a bing Cash Back account, so now they are denying it saying that it s a violation of Section 17. I dont see how it is a violation, its my money I can choose who gets the money, it is not their business what I do with it. This is just plain fraud. I am soo pissed with bing CashBack, it has been a total pain in the butt. First they asked me to prove I am a us resident after I did that now this. Looks like this is a bait and screw by bing. This is ridiculous, I will defnitely complain about this to the BBB and I will go on every forum/blog and talk about this if i have to.