jayK said:pryan67 said:jayK said:pryan67 said:What does the term "annual" mean to you?In this context, it means whatever it is defined as in the Costco renewal terms. Do they even use the term "annual" in the renewal terms?


You're the one that seems to have it memorized...why don't you tell us?The fact that I was asking whether the term "annual" was even used in the renewal terms should be a pretty good clue that I don't have the complete T&C in front of me.

And you're the one who is basing your argument on your interpretation of the word "annual". Nice attempt at ducking the question though.

I'm not ducking any question...I'm not a member of costco or any other "membership club" I'd rather shop where I want to and not have to pay a fee to do so...personal preference...

where are you getting the "3 month prorated" btw? According to the complaint (and yes, I HAVE read it...most recently the ammended complaint as of 3/31/09....unlike yourself apparently) it's SIX months...

however, I do NOT approve of companies ripping off consumers like it appears Costco has done...

jayK said:pryan67 said:I'm not ducking any question...I'm not a member of costco or any other "membership club" I'd rather shop where I want to and not have to pay a fee to do so...personal preference...You are perfectly free to do so, but you should really weigh the potential cost savings vs. the membership fee before you make a decision. My wife and I save about $50/month in produce alone by buying from Costco.

where are you getting the "3 month prorated" btw? According to the complaint (and yes, I HAVE read it...most recently the ammended complaint as of 3/31/09....unlike yourself apparently) it's SIX months...Again, you need to read more carefully. In March 2009 (before this settlement) Costco changed their policy so only memberships renewed up to 2 months after their expiration would keep the same expiration date.

So if your membership expired in April 09, and (worst case) you renew at the end of June 09, your membership would be valid until April 2010. This means you would lose out on April, May, and June 09: that's three months. (Not sure if the expiration happens at the beginning or the end of the month, if it's at the end then worst case would be losing out on two months.) But if you renew in July 09, your membership would be valid until July 2010. This information is on page 4 of the settlement document.

we only spend ~200 a month total on groceries...so the savings would be minimal for us IMO...now, if I were to purchase a big ticket item, and the savings would offset their "membership fee", sure..I can see doing it...but for now, it's not something that would directly benefit me.

so...AFTER the suit, they changed their policies...which has no bearing on the suit itself...

but even assuming it WOULD have anything to do with the suit filed, then let's turn it around and say that the "worst case would be Costco losing out on 2 month's membership fees without providing a service"...so why couldn't they do that, and avoid the legal fees?

Costco has been dragging this out in the courts, not the consumer

jayK said:pryan67 said:but even assuming it WOULD have anything to do with the suit filed, then let's turn it around and say that the "worst case would be Costco losing out on 2 month's membership fees without providing a service"...so why couldn't they do that, and avoid the legal fees?Actually, the worst case for Costco is a member canceling the day before their expiration date, in which case Costco would lose out on almost 12 months of membership fees. I have no idea why Costco prorates the renewals of lapsed memberships, but it probably offsets the cost of allowing members to get a full refund for their membership fees.

If I were Costco, I would want to keep that membership refund in policy in place (not to mention the very generous product refund policy) without having to raise prices. Prorating lapsed memberships is one way to do that without affecting loyal customers who don't let their memberships lapse.

but there's never been any mention in this suit concerning members canceling just prior to the expiration of their annual membership...so again, it has nothing to do with the case at hand...

if you'd like to discuss the merits of Costco doing so, I'd be happy to, but perhaps this thread should stick to the suit, and not go off onto tangents....

jayK said:pryan67 said:but even assuming it WOULD have anything to do with the suit filed, then let's turn it around and say that the "worst case would be Costco losing out on 2 month's membership fees without providing a service"...so why couldn't they do that, and avoid the legal fees?Actually, the worst case for Costco is a member canceling the day before their expiration date, in which case Costco would lose out on almost 12 months of membership fees. I have no idea why Costco prorates the renewals of lapsed memberships, but it probably offsets the cost of allowing members to get a full refund for their membership fees.

If I were Costco, I would want to keep that membership refund in policy in place (not to mention the very generous product refund policy) without having to raise prices. Prorating lapsed memberships is one way to do that without affecting loyal customers who don't let their memberships lapse.

FYI Costco chooses to prorate memberships for lapsed Costco memberships because your Costco membership gives you access to many other membership benefits besides access to Costco's warehouse clubs for general merchandise purchases. For most of those supplemental benefits such as theme park discounts, onsite movie ticket discounts, car wash discounts etc.. it is simply not cost-effective or proper CS etiquette to require each of their partners offering these supplemental benefits to Costco members to verify their current Costco membership status each time and at the time a Costco member wants to use them. Most simply need to see your Costco membership card to get their Costco partner discounts. For lapsed memberships Costco simply has no way to verify you have not been using those membership benefits. The other reason for prorating is that the cost of Costco’s liberal return policy is based on contiguous membership in their club. Costco gives you ample time and mail notifications to cancel your Costco membership when your renewal time is near if you choose not to continue your membership. Simply ignoring those renewal notifications is not cancelling your membership. Once again READ the Tems of membership. Also remember there is HUGE difference restarting previously cancelled Costco membership and simply renewing a lapsed Costco membership

pryan67 said:have you read the court documents? I have...

Costco could have settled this LONG ago...they've refused to do so...What in the court documents supports your claim that Costco was the one dragging this case out rather than the class lawyers?

pryan67 said:cnIsfg said:jayK said:pryan67 said:but even assuming it WOULD have anything to do with the suit filed, then let's turn it around and say that the "worst case would be Costco losing out on 2 month's membership fees without providing a service"...so why couldn't they do that, and avoid the legal fees?Actually, the worst case for Costco is a member canceling the day before their expiration date, in which case Costco would lose out on almost 12 months of membership fees. I have no idea why Costco prorates the renewals of lapsed memberships, but it probably offsets the cost of allowing members to get a full refund for their membership fees.

If I were Costco, I would want to keep that membership refund in policy in place (not to mention the very generous product refund policy) without having to raise prices. Prorating lapsed memberships is one way to do that without affecting loyal customers who don't let their memberships lapse.

FYI Costco chooses to prorate memberships for lapsed Costco memberships because your Costco membership gives you access to many other membership benefits besides access to Costco's warehouse clubs for general merchandise purchases. For most of those supplemental benefits such as theme park discounts, onsite movie ticket discounts, car wash discounts etc.. it is simply not cost-effective or proper CS etiquette to require each of their partners offering these supplemental benefits to Costco members to verify their current Costco membership status each time and at the time a Costco member wants to use them. Most simply need to see your Costco membership card to get their Costco partner discounts. For lapsed memberships Costco simply has no way to verify you have not been using those membership benefits. The other reason for prorating is that the cost of Costco’s liberal return policy is based on contiguous membership in their club. Costco gives you ample time and mail notifications to cancel your Costco membership when your renewal time is near if you choose not to continue your membership. Simply ignoring those renewal notifications is not cancelling your membership. Once again READ the Tems of membership. Also remember there is HUGE difference restarting previously cancelled Costco membership and simply renewing a lapsed Costco membership

Does the costco card have an expiration date on it? As I said, I'm not a "member"...so I don't know...I would think it DOES, because otherwise I could get a membership for a year...and keep the card handy for all the other discounts

Perhaps as you don't shop at Costco, do not know what it offes and appear not to care, and do not know all the facts of the case or the terms and conditions of membership, which btw is a revokable priviledge, perhaps you should continue to shop elsewhere and refrain from commenting based on limited knowledge. Costco is a great solution for many, for some it may not work and those who join and find it does not meet their needs can get their membership fee refunded at any time during the year.

horizon6 said:pryan67 said:cnIsfg said:jayK said:pryan67 said:but even assuming it WOULD have anything to do with the suit filed, then let's turn it around and say that the "worst case would be Costco losing out on 2 month's membership fees without providing a service"...so why couldn't they do that, and avoid the legal fees?Actually, the worst case for Costco is a member canceling the day before their expiration date, in which case Costco would lose out on almost 12 months of membership fees. I have no idea why Costco prorates the renewals of lapsed memberships, but it probably offsets the cost of allowing members to get a full refund for their membership fees.

If I were Costco, I would want to keep that membership refund in policy in place (not to mention the very generous product refund policy) without having to raise prices. Prorating lapsed memberships is one way to do that without affecting loyal customers who don't let their memberships lapse.

FYI Costco chooses to prorate memberships for lapsed Costco memberships because your Costco membership gives you access to many other membership benefits besides access to Costco's warehouse clubs for general merchandise purchases. For most of those supplemental benefits such as theme park discounts, onsite movie ticket discounts, car wash discounts etc.. it is simply not cost-effective or proper CS etiquette to require each of their partners offering these supplemental benefits to Costco members to verify their current Costco membership status each time and at the time a Costco member wants to use them. Most simply need to see your Costco membership card to get their Costco partner discounts. For lapsed memberships Costco simply has no way to verify you have not been using those membership benefits. The other reason for prorating is that the cost of Costco’s liberal return policy is based on contiguous membership in their club. Costco gives you ample time and mail notifications to cancel your Costco membership when your renewal time is near if you choose not to continue your membership. Simply ignoring those renewal notifications is not cancelling your membership. Once again READ the Tems of membership. Also remember there is HUGE difference restarting previously cancelled Costco membership and simply renewing a lapsed Costco membership

Does the costco card have an expiration date on it? As I said, I'm not a "member"...so I don't know...I would think it DOES, because otherwise I could get a membership for a year...and keep the card handy for all the other discounts

Perhaps as you don't shop at Costco, do not know what it offes and appear not to care, and do not know all the facts of the case or the terms and conditions of membership, which btw is a revokable priviledge, perhaps you should continue to shop elsewhere and refrain from commenting based on limited knowledge. Costco is a great solution for many, for some it may not work and those who join and find it does not meet their needs can get their membership fee refunded at any time during the year.

AH....so because I choose NOT to shop at Costco...paying for the privledge of perhaps saving a few cents...plus driving a half hour each way to shop...I can't have an opinion?
Even though it appears that I'm the ONLY one here who's actually bothered to actually READ the case in question?

pryan67 said:horizon6 said:pryan67 said:jayK said:pryan67 said:jayK said:pryan67 said:What does the term "annual" mean to you?In this context, it means whatever it is defined as in the Costco renewal terms. Do they even use the term "annual" in the renewal terms?


You're the one that seems to have it memorized...why don't you tell us?The fact that I was asking whether the term "annual" was even used in the renewal terms should be a pretty good clue that I don't have the complete T&C in front of me.

And you're the one who is basing your argument on your interpretation of the word "annual". Nice attempt at ducking the question though.


I'm not ducking any question...I'm not a member of costco or any other "membership club" I'd rather shop where I want to and not have to pay a fee to do so...personal preference...


where are you getting the "3 month prorated" btw? According to the complaint (and yes, I HAVE read it...most recently the ammended complaint as of 3/31/09....unlike yourself apparently) it's SIX months...

 


however, I do NOT approve of companies ripping off consumers like it appears Costco has done...

'it appears' -- to you it may wrongly appear -- settling does not mean they did something wrong, only that lawyers were making money -- if all companies behaved towards their employees and customers as Costco does, we'd all be better off -- and fortunately you have a choice, if you don't like it shop elsewhere as there are other places where you will be ripped off


Correct...settling doesn't necessarily mean that they did anything wrong...

 

but then again, even if this went to court, and the judge decided in the consumer's favor (which, reading the complaint and other court documents is highly likely), that STILL doesn't mean they did anything wrong, does it?

Perhaps if the lawyers for the plaintiff were as certain as you that the judge would have decided in the plaintiff's favor, they would not have settled.

Yes, you are correct if the judge decided either way, it would not be definitive that the side chosen by the judge was correct within the law. Unfortunately, our legal system has become overly complex with layers of appeals and extremely expensive. The system in some cases even prevents good companies and good people from doing good because of fear of legal costs/consequences. There should be a better way. Ask your physician; unless of course they have given up their practice.

The problem I have with this is that there has been no claim that the named plaintiff or others could not have canceled their membership and received a refund for the what has been referred to as 'annual amount'. Were the 'terms and conditions' of membership' hidden or not available to the plaintiff. Were they given a copy? This they ask for one? How did they decide the term was a fixed term of one year. BTW, look here -- http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=3164&whse=BC&topnav=&browse=〈=en-US&s=1

It seems like there could have been a simple solution to this that did not involve huge legal fees which benefited only the lawyers. How much money did they plaintiffs receive?

That does not mean there is not a place for lawsuits. Sometimes individual suits; sometimes class actions. Indeed, I expect consumers are ripped off quite frequently.

If every person in our country were really 'ripped off' just one dollar on one day, it would total approximately 300 millions dollars. As none of those who were actually 'ripped off' could take action in court individually because of the cost, a class action would be appropriate if other action to resolve it were not available.

It appears that you've come to a conclusion without every experiencing Costco. While in some ways what appears to be a bias in your writing in this thread, leans me to strongly suggest you shop elsewhere, I would suggest you try Costco. Go with a friend, if you don't like it don't join. But perhaps you'll get a different perspective--maybe even buy inexpensive something with your friend, decide whether you like it and see whether some time later you can return it. Or buy a membership and try it and if you don't like it see whether you have any difficulty returning it.

BTW, I'm pretty sure you are not the only one who read the case.

BTW, rules of evidence may mean that not everything is reported in the 'case'. Judges/jurors may be prevented by law from collecting evidence not presented or considering some evidence, but as a watching observer, you can can review other information. For example you could observe an actual Costco.

BTW, while many think Costco sells only in very large quantities, and much of what they sell are hot in very small quantities, much is not. Milk in the Costco 'warehouses' near me is sold in gallon containers. It is generally about one dollar less per gallon at Costco than at area supermarkets. This price difference may vary from area to area because of many factors but using this example, just buying a gallon of milk each week saves the cost of the fifty dollars membership over a 52 week period.

BTW, with your paid Costco membership, as long as you qualify for the credit card financially, Costco members can get a True Earnings (R) American Express Card from Costco with no annual credit card fee. That card gives you 3 percent back on gasoline purchases up to 3,000 dollars per year, 3 percent back on restaurant purchases, 2 percent back on travel purchases, and 1 percent back on all other purchases including those at Costco. http://www.costco.com/Service/FeaturePage.aspx?ProductNo=1126481 Yes, there are limitation and this is subject to 'terms and conditions' and anyone who considers it should read the 'fine print' of the agreement .

And yes, I am biased in favor of Costco, as I have shopped there and as I said earlier in this thread, it regularly meets my expectations and its commitments to employees and customers first with shareholders benefiting because of this over the long run. On very very rare occasion when I identify some room for improvement to them, I contact them and find there is appropriate follow through on its part, simple, without lawyers and legal fees.

Good wishes and good luck

jayK said:pryan67 said:but then again, even if this went to court, and the judge decided in the consumer's favor (which, reading the complaint and other court documents is highly likely), that STILL doesn't mean they did anything wrong, does it?What in the court documents makes you think the judge would have decided for the plaintiff?

What in the court documents supports your claim that Costco was the one dragging this case out rather than the class lawyers?

Thanks much for your participation in this thread. I suspect many people unfortunately make decisions based on limited information which they have partly processed based on some previous biases.

If you'd like, see my just previous comment, which also quoted a response from pyran67.

jonjones said:I had a similar situation where I asked Costco to cancel my membership after the 12 month expired and to open a new account and they told me as long my info is in their computer system, they cannot open a new account and only can renew it from the date it had expired previously. I did not renew and opened a new account at a competitor wholesale club. This was a few years ago and I have not gone back to Costco.

Enjoy what works for you.
Costco does not try to be for everyone.
The crowds in Costco NY area warehouses demonstrate it does very well for very many.