Paypal is not just a service that you can voluntarily choose from many options and should then compare which is preferable to use. Paypal is a MONOPOLY. It is effectively the only way to get paid on eBay, and other than having a full credit card processing option is the only method of accepting payment on a website that doesn't look suspicious to most buyers. Try requiring a non-credit card, non-paypal payment method on a website, you'll get flooded with people refusing to buy and each of those people reflects many more people who you are losing as customers. Since they are a monopoly, Paypal is legally and morally required not to act like the big jerks that they are.

jayK said:jolma said:Since they are a monopoly, Paypal is legally and morally required not to act like the big jerks that they are.No court would find that Paypal is a monopoly given the market consisting of "methods of payment on eBay that don't look suspicious to buyers", and as such they have no legal requirement not to "act like big jerks". If you don't like it, don't use eBay.

JayK, that was a useless comment. Jolma was right. Paypal gets away with way too much and is only allowed to because they are really the only option to continue to do business on eBay nowadays.

Eh, I feel we've gotten away long enough with the personal accounts. It was just a matter of time before they clamped down on it. I do agree that the lack of notification and transparency is pretty shameful, but that's business.

I started to increase my PayPal use over the past year because I liked the buyer protection part of it. Or, at least, that's what I thought. I had a serious dispute with a vendor where the vendor was very clearly in the wrong. Paypal says, "talk it out." After that goes nowhere, they say (and only at the tail end of the process), "since this wasn't an eBay item, we cannot help you any further."

That's my own story. But other people (such as the OP) are coming up with story after story of how PayPal has set their expectations one way, and delivered something different. Or shifted the sands below people's feet. I should have listened to all of the complaints from others, but I was always, "Oh, this doesn't affect me. I'm not doing _X_ and I know that if I do, I just need to do it different than they did."

Well now, for me, doing business with this company is a liability. Not only has PayPal not earned my business, they've earned a quarantine due to their unpredictable nature (without hiring a legal team to track updates and interpret contract language into real-world scenarios).

tinkleondabeach said:I offer personal services like a subscription to my forum :

And all you need to do is post this information to 300 newsgroups moving OP's name up one on the list and you too will make $64,000. The Pay Pal fees now move this from a hot deal to only luke warm tho.

TowHead said:It's kind of like my old dumb brunette girlfriend back in College. I explained to her the terms of credit (nothing like a dumb girlfriend to reinforce your own conviction with regard to credit - much to her credit), and explained to her that she's the one borrowing the money and therefore it is the borrowers responsibility to understand the terms and return the money in due course as agreed upon. Granted, the credit card was pushed and of course, being dumb, she figured that by filling out the information in the little squares, she was entitled to free money.

That's not how it works, I explained. When you borrow money, it isn't like calling your Mom to get sprung out of jail for wreaking havoc and not paying back your Mom.

Likewise, if you use a financial service, the onus is on the user of the financial service to know what they're using and to what advantage they can use it. Sure, Paypal's a bit sneaky, always changing their terms of service, and I agree that hiding the fees into a lump sum is even more sneaky, it's still a service you do not have to use at all and choosing to do use it, you should jump in with both eyes wide open.

Don't be like my dumb girlfriend. Ex-girlfriend, that is.

since eBay is a monopoly (yes you can sell certain items like books, cds, dvds, ect on fixed price sites like Amazon, ABE, ect, many items, and unique items you can't) and eBay, which owns Paypal now forces you to receive payments ONLY BY PAYPAL for almost everything sold on eBay, people who may only sell a couple of items now and then to get rid of them, for example, are forced to either use Paypal, or thrown their salable crap in the garbage. Not everybody has a garage, yard, or sidewalk of their own to have a garage sale. For many people eBay is their only opportunity to have a garage sale, just as for others a front lawn or garage is their forum. As you say people have a choice to use paypal, people who have a garage sale are required to collect and pay sales tax on all sales, plus income tax on the appreciated value of what they sold over what they paid for it. what is your opinion of people who choose to have garage sales and not pay taxes to the monopoly government. eBay and Paypal are monopoly's you can choose whether to use or not but being the only choice in town, they are taking full advantage of their monopoly status with ever changing rules to their financial benefit.

jayK said:You're dead wrong about paying sales tax, since sales tax for items sold at a garage sale has already been paid at the time of original purchase.Wrong. In most states you have to pay sales tax on the transaction. Doesn't matter if the item is new, used, or how many times it has been sold.

jolma said:Paypal is not just a service that you can voluntarily choose from many options and should then compare which is preferable to use. Paypal is a MONOPOLY. It is effectively the only way to get paid on eBay, and other than having a full credit card processing option is the only method of accepting payment on a website that doesn't look suspicious to most buyers. Try requiring a non-credit card, non-paypal payment method on a website, you'll get flooded with people refusing to buy and each of those people reflects many more people who you are losing as customers. Since they are a monopoly, Paypal is legally and morally required not to act like the big jerks that they are.

Whoops. I didn't notice your comment when I basically repeated it later. BUT...since I didn't see, and therefore didn't plagiarize it, and definitely agree with it, I'll leave it up, but you get credit for posting it first.

Moonsea said:I signed up for Revolution Money Exchange in February 2008. They are a totally free money transfer service.

that's all well and good but even the old diner's club had better acceptance with merchants than revolution money exchange. i just transferred the $25 bonus they paid me to an account where i can actually spend the money.

I don't like the way this was handled. It's a PERSONAL account, and up until the change early this month, non credit card payments of any kind were not subject to fees. They changed their definition of personal to reflect the kind of transaction not just the type of account. Along with that, the default choice for sending money is now "Purchase", which is classified as a chargeable amount. If when you send money you click on the "Personal" tab, AND the payment is made from a bank or balance transfer, there should not be a fee. But I think this was done pretty sneaky, as this is a pretty huge change and should have been broadcast more readily than it was.