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dhodory
- Addicted Member
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posted: Jul. 1, 2009 @ 9:49a
Anyone have any luck getting out based on the increased Admin Fee alone? |
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npep
- Tired Member
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posted: Jul. 1, 2009 @ 9:56a
I am awaiting a call back from verizon. I went as far as a supervisor, he understood everything that I laid out for him, but said that verizon has sent out notices telling all supervisors to NOT let anyone out of their ETF with this increase. I am still pushing due to the multiple fee increases in 2009 alone, so we will see what happens. |
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kdanderson
- New Member
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posted: Jul. 1, 2009 @ 2:11p
Keep us updated, npep. I'm interested to hear how it goes. I'll be calling in the next few days to cancel service. I can't believe they are supposedly issuing notices telling their employees to not honor their own contract. I know we've beat this over the head a million times, but the admin. fee is not a tax, Verizon even admits that. The increase *is* a material adverse difference in our bills, and should therefore be bound by their own agreement. I agree with the previous post stating they may have a class action lawsuit against them if they keep fighting this. I would have no problem whatsoever with this if their contract stated that taxes AND fees were not subject to the material adverse effect clause...but that's not the case. |
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kevinaz123
- New Member
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posted: Jul. 1, 2009 @ 4:11p
Yes. I completed this yesterday, successfully, based solely on “Administrative Charge” increase. My Verizon service will remain active until the end of my billing cycle at which point, I will receive a final bill without an Early Terminations Fee. If you are unclear as to what this fee increase is and would like clarification, please call 888-684-1888, option # 3. I have been a Verizon customer since 2000 and had over 1 year left on my contract. It is time for me to part ways, due to another increase, which is a “Verizon initiated charge”, not a taxation required by the FCC or Federal/Sate law. If this were the case, Verizon does not honor the requests to cancel without receiving a ETF. Petty and humorous it may be - the rate increase will allow you out of your contract under Verizon’s own contractual terms. To cancel my Verizon service, it did take 1.5hrs on the phone, allot of patience, speaking with 2 different CSR’s and 2 different Supervisors, and me not accepting any other offers they presented me with to remain a Verizon customer. Multiple times in our conversations, the Supervisors stated that they would like to do research and call me back. Do not allow them to do this. Clearly state to them that this is unacceptable and you would like the matter resolved immediately. "Geeky One", the self proclaimed Verizon supervisor, is in clear violation of his employer/employee contract with Verizon. To come on here and make false statements, which he has, could cost him his job; especially if this ends up on the desk of the CSO (Smile). While "Geeky One" means well (to be debated), the customer retention scare tactics he is using, are completely false. If this happens to anyone, please contact the BBB and your local State Attorney Generals office. Action, although delayed and slow, shall be taken against the denial of a contractual obligation. If enough claims are filed, this could also help initiate the process of a rightful Class Action Lawsuit. Verizon, by law, is required to honor this request for up to 60 days, after the notification to the customer. In this case, I received notification on my June statement and at that point, I have 60 days to cancel, without receive an Early Termination Fee. Verizon, by law, is bound to their own contract which clearly states the following: “Our Rights to Make Changes Your service is subject to our business policies, practices and procedures, which we can change without notice. UNLESS OTHERWISE PROHIBITED BY LAW, WE CAN ALSO CHANGE PRICES AND ANY OTHER CONDITIONS IN THIS AGREEMENT AT ANY TIME BY SENDING YOU WRITTEN NOTICE PRIOR TO THE BILLING PERIOD IN WHICH THE CHANGES WOULD GO INTO EFFECT. IF YOU CHOOSE TO USE YOUR SERVICE AFTER THAT POINT, YOU'RE ACCEPTING THE CHANGES. IF THE CHANGES HAVE A MATERIAL ADVERSE EFFECT ON YOU, HOWEVER, YOU CAN END THE AFFECTED SERVICE, WITHOUT ANY EARLY TERMINATION FEE, JUST BY CALLING US WITHIN 60 DAYS AFTER WE SEND NOTICE OF THE CHANGE.” Verizon clearly exercised their right to make a change, increasing a Verizon initiated fee and then notifying the customers of the increase. We, as customers, have 60 days from that notification, to exercise our right to end our Verizon service, without receiving Early Termination Fees. Verizon chose not to define “Material Adverse Effect”, so even if it is a $.01 increase, Verizon has no way, or law abiding rights for that matter, to judge the direct effect this has on you. Funny this loop hole may be, but this is basic law and the way Verizon instituted their contract. If you end up with a CSR or Supervisor, who is unaware of your rights to cancel your contract without the ETF, politely ask to speak with someone else who can assist you. I would advise you to set aside at least 1 hour, to complete this process. Good luck and bring some extreme patience to the table. |
Message edited by: kevinaz123 on 2009-07-01 16:27:26 CDT
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Janosik
- New Member
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posted: Jul. 1, 2009 @ 5:44p
Anyone from PA know if this was on our bills more than 60 days ago, if at all? I just looked over my bill for May 15 - June 15 and couldn't find anything about an Administrative Charge increase. |
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Instigator
- Member
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posted: Jul. 1, 2009 @ 7:46p
I'm in PA. It will show up on your next bill. |
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cufel
- New Member
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posted: Jul. 2, 2009 @ 10:33a
Does this work for Ohio ? |
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kdanderson
- New Member
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posted: Jul. 2, 2009 @ 2:15p
Was just released from my contract at the end of the billing cycle due to admin. fee increase. Customer service rep. was very friendly and helpful. It sounded like she was unfamiliar with this clause in the contract, though, as I was on hold for a good portion of time while she researched the issue. She then came back and told me I would need to bring in proof of what the contract says to a retail store as she can't see the contract. I directed her to the VZW website's Customer Agreement page where she then found the clause, put me on hold to talk with a supervisor for a few minutes, and returned to offer me a credit for the difference in the increase. At that point, I declined and she allowed me to cancel without penalty. All in all, 31 minutes well spent, and with a very friendly and helpful rep...something I can't say I've always had. Now, I'm curious. I understand that I'll be responsible for paying this month's full bill since she put my end date on July 25. Can I, however, go ahead and port out next week and be okay? Or would I be better off going ahead and getting a temporary new number from AT&T and then porting my current VZW number on or around the 25th? I'm scared to wait too long, though, as I assume my number will be lost if I don't port by 7/25. |
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sachinshah
- Thrifty Member
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posted: Jul. 2, 2009 @ 2:45p
I have a family plan with 5 lines, and I just want to get out of my contract without canceling my lines. Is this possible or do I have to cancel at least 1 line? |
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darkmeridian
- Senior Member
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posted: Jul. 3, 2009 @ 9:07a
GeekyOne said:so sorry everyone but when you sign the terms and conditions with any carrier - you are accepting that contract and its carriers policies. I deal with people who hate to take personal responsibility for a living. people who argue they shouldnt have to read their bills, or check their own accounts. people who expect vzw to call them personally when their bills are due. come on - if your bank doesnt call you when the mortgage is due and then you get all whiney about why are they foreclosing does that really argue any valid point with the bank? No - you signed a contract - you are personally responsible - blaming someone like myself (which I get wonderful customer feedback because I will work with a reasonable customer rather than one who thinks I should somehow be responsible for their bills) is merely a copout. If you dont like contracts - then dont sign them - go prepaid. Once youve accepted t&c for any contract you are legally bound to said contract or you can pay the etf to get out of the contract. Hate it all you want - but you only have yourself to blame. You're flipping the problem entirely on its head. We read the contract before we signed it. Now we want to bind Verizon to it. Read again: Verizon is the party trying to get out of the contract. Nowhere does Verizon reserve the right to fix a materially adverse change by making another change to the contract. |
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npep
- Tired Member
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posted: Jul. 3, 2009 @ 12:45p
Was just able to get out of my ETF... Took a few calls and a lot of patience, but it is done. Finally... |
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mayette
- New Member
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posted: Jul. 4, 2009 @ 2:50a
okay, I have read this entire thread, as well as a few other things on the internet about this. I have 4 lines/contracts with verizon that I would like to cancel. however, I haven't been so prompt about paying on-time recently due to financial hardships. am I still eligible to have my contracts terminated without an ETF per line? |
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mayette
- New Member
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posted: Jul. 4, 2009 @ 2:50a
okay, I have read this entire thread, as well as a few other things on the internet about this. I have 4 lines/contracts with verizon that I would like to cancel. however, I haven't been so prompt about paying on-time recently due to financial hardships. am I still eligible to have my contracts terminated without an ETF per line? |
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AbSoluTc
- New Member
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posted: Jul. 4, 2009 @ 3:43p
Just wanted to say thank you. I have been with AT&T for a year now and have been extremely happy with the service I have received. Unlike Verizon. So happy, I decided to switch over the rest of my family which is 3 more lines on AT&T. I called Verizon (we have been customers since early 07) and told them I wanted to terminate all lines of service. Told them about the price increase as noted by the OP. I explained that and also the fact that we have had nothing but horrible customer service (this is true to the point where I want to forget it ever happened). The service rep tried to keep us by offering 2 months free and waiving the EFT and reducing the contract to 1 year. I declined. She also noted that we can suspend the account for up to 3 months in case we decide we don't like the other carrier. I declined. I was put back on hold. She came back and told me the contracts were terminated and there were no EFT's. I also asked her to verify that the 2 numbers I ported 10 minutes earlier to AT&T would have no EFT's and she put me back on hold. Five minutes later she came back and stated she credited those fees as well because it was taking too long to get a hold of customer service. She verified that all contracts were canceled and no EFT's assessed. If anyone is going to do this and want to keep their phone number(s) - you need to port it BEFORE you cancel. If you don't, you will not be able to port it after. Thanks to the OP for giving us an out. We are now free of Verizon. Terrible service. |
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hockeydude35
- New Member
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posted: Jul. 5, 2009 @ 2:58p
So, I've spoken with 6 customer service representatives (4 first level and 2 supervisors) and I still cannot get my ETF waived. Every single one of them has told me that this fee increase does not constitute a material adverse change and that they can instead credit the amount (for the remainder of my contract back to me). I repeatedly told them that this is not acceptable and that my customer agreement does not outline what is considered a material change, but they just laughed that off as $.07 doesnt qualify and continued to offer the credit or nothing. Finally I told them that if they cannot help me, I would contact the BBB and FCC. They basically said ok, and hung up. This is ridiculous. Anyone have any advice. They have on my file now that i've spoken with 2 supervisors who have both shot me down, so the first level CSR's wont even really discuss it with me now. I'm getting really frustrated. |
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hockeydude35
- New Member
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posted: Jul. 5, 2009 @ 2:59p
sorry for the double post |
Message edited by: hockeydude35 on 2009-07-05 15:00:24 CDT
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kdanderson
- New Member
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posted: Jul. 5, 2009 @ 6:27p
Definitely keep to your word and contact the BBB and FCC. It wouldn't hurt to also send a letter via PlanetFeedback.com The site does wonders. Your email will go to the executive relations department. I know it's frustrating, as I've had to fight other contractual things with Verizon before. Just keep sticking to your guns and hold them to their own contract. If it comes down to it and you feel like putting a little more time and effort into it, take it to small claims court. Whatever you decide to do, just make sure you don't let them drag it on past the 60 day period, because then they will have a valid reason for not waiving the ETF. When you call customer service, above all else, be firm, but very polite. Kindly ask them to read that portion of the contract to you and ask them where the contract defines what a material adverse effect is. (Hint: the contract doesn't define it, therefore they have no real basis to back up their claim that $.07 doesn't qualify.) I would let them know that the notice in the bill specifically states to look in the contract "Our Rights to Make Changes" section for more details on the rate increase. So basically, your bill says "Hey, we're raising your admin. fee seven cents. We can do that, look at your contract." When you look at your contract, it says "Yeah, it's true. We can raise fees at any given time just by giving you written notice. If you don't want to agree to those fees, your only option for denial is to cancel service with us within 60 days, with no ETF" I did find an old article from back when text messages rates increased from $.10 to $.15. While the article is two years old and the amount of increase is different, it still applies. If you decide to go for the "less nice" route, this is a good script. Here's the main section of the script, dealing with material adverse things: VERIZON: "Still, this is not materially adverse."
REBUTTAl: "Nowhere in your contract does not give a concrete definition of materially adverse. I'm telling you this is materially adverse, you know it's materially adverse, and I'm confident a court of law will side with me that it is materially adverse. What is the point of a contract if you can just arbitrarily increase prices by 50% and then tell users they can't cancel even though it's spelled out in that very contract? " VERIZON: "Sorry we still cannot cancel your contract." REBUTTAL: "I tried to be reasonable but I have no choice to fight this. You know I'm in the right. I will file a complaint with the FCC, BBB, and my state attorney's office about what I believe is fraud. You are not honoring a contract that you agreed with me, and this is not fair. I'm asking you nicely, can you please cancel my contract without termination fee, like it says I can do in my contract?" VERIZON: "Sorry, we still cannot cancel your contract." REBUTTAL: "Can I please have you name and ID number? I will be contacting your VP of Customer Service, Barbara Trinko, and complaining about the level of service you have provided with me today. Then I will call back tomorrow, and every day after that until you decide to change your mind. I will also offer you updates on the complaints I will be filing after I get off the phone with you."" http://consumerist.com/consumer/readers/script-for-escaping-verizon-contracts-without-fee-based-on-text-message-rate-raises-234164.php Good luck! Stay persistent and courteous, and feel free to PM me if you have any questions. |
Message edited by: kdanderson on 2009-07-05 18:47:38 CDT
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hockeydude35
- New Member
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posted: Jul. 5, 2009 @ 6:54p
I just tried again, and was again denied. This was the 4th supervisor I spoke with. The CSR I had before him, was speechless for 30 seconds after I asked him to tell me where the contract defines what a material adverse affect is. Then he finally spoke again and just said "we're not waving it", so I asked to speak with the supervisor. The supervisor just kept saying the same thing and basically told me that there was no way I was going to get it waved and that I would get the same answer every time I called, no matter what. |
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kdanderson
- New Member
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posted: Jul. 5, 2009 @ 11:01p
Again, if you feel like it...I'd keep trying. I'd also definitely be contacting FCC, BBB, and utilizing PlanetFeedback.com These supervisors are breaching the contract you and Verizon both entered into. And I'm not a lawyer by any means, but you may end up doing ok in small claims court, as well. Court or not, it's worth a fight doing whatever you can. This situation is aggravating for me, and I'm not even having to fight. To see Verizon completely ignoring their own contract is maddening. Even one single penny is a material adverse effect. Sure, we can all afford an extra couple cents a month, but that's Verizon's problem for not defining what is "materially adverse." That's Verizon's issue. If they don't want to have this problem, they should add language to the clause stating the change has to be greater than __% change. The way it's worded now, one cent, one dollar...it doesn't matter, it's materially adversely affecting you. I mean, if they can act like their contract isn't worth following then why should you? |
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mayette
- New Member
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posted: Jul. 5, 2009 @ 11:24p
I really hope they don't pull this on me... I'm trying it tomorrow after having my friend assume liability for her line. A guy at AT&T said that verizon will try to play the customer's ignorance, so I suppose I just have to sound like I know what I'm doing and won't take no for an answer? |
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