astroruben said: I'm waiting until they fix the soap opera effect.
There is nothing to "fix". Its the nature of frame interpolation. Samsung allows you to to reduce judder reduction thus taking away the soap opera effect and still keep blur reduction, its in the options menu, if you want.
GBmanNC said: astroruben said: I'm waiting until they fix the soap opera effect.
There is nothing to "fix". Its the nature of frame interpolation. Samsung allows you to to reduce judder reduction thus taking away the soap opera effect and still keep blur reduction, its in the options menu, if you want.
You must not have seen Toshiba's competing implementation. It is substantially less jarring.
mungbai said: astroruben said: I'm waiting until they fix the soap opera effect.
Is this the "too real" look? Where a movie suddenly looks like local news? Plasmas don't suffer from this, right?
That's exactly what it is, the "too real" look. The only time I like to turn it on is when watching animations (Wall-E etc). Why is it that watching a real film, the too smooth/too real effect looks is a bad thing? I have no idea. It just looks strange. Some things, such as Hollywood films, are not meant to look too real I guess..
I'm sure this has been explained many times even on this hot deals forums, but I think many people don't understand it. Since I got nothing better to do right now, let me try.
Just because an LCD is a 120hz panel doesn't automatically mean everything will have that soap opera look. It's the additional frame interpolation processing that gives it that look (Sony calls it Motionflow, Samsung calls it AMP short for Auto Motion Plus, they do the same thing). There are different "potency" of the effect to choose from, on my Sony it's normal and high. On normal it's not that bad, leaving a bit of the 24p strobe, I actually like it a lot watching Planet Earth. On high everything is super smooth, with the 24p strobing completely smoothed out. The problem on high is that anything faster than a slow pan usually introduces a lot of artifacts. I'm no expert at this, but I'm guessing it's because the processor in these TVs are not fast enough to "create" the additional frames of this interpolation process on fast moving objects or scenes. Think about it, to create frames in real time like this there's some serious computing going on in these TVs. In order to keep up with the 120hz refresh, it will just display the unfinished interpolated frame as-is, resulting in the artifacts.
You don't have to enable the frame interpolation processing to see the benefit of a 120hz LCD. When watching Bluray 24p materials, 120 (as in 120hz) divides evenly by 24, so the TV simply has to repeat each of those 24 frames fives times to fit evenly in the 120hz refresh. The result is judder-free viewing of Bluray, you can easily see the effects watching the ending credit scroll. Do not confuse judder with 24p strobe (the whole issue of the soap opera look - it's missing the 24p strobe). The juddering on a 60hz LCD is much more severe than 24p strobe. This juddering happens on a 60hz TV because 24 is not divided evenly into 60. Google 3:2 pulldown telecine judder (5:5 pulldown for 120hz TVs) for many technical explanations on this.
Plasmas don't "suffer" from this because no plasmas (that I know of) have the frame interpolation processing. To eliminate juddering, some plasmas have a refresh rates that are multiples of 24 (48, 72, 96). On those plasmas it'll be 2:2/3:3/4:4 pulldown. Eliminating 3:2 pulldown eliminates telecine judder.
Great price on the 46B8000 BTW I had the B6000 in my Amazon cart and I thought that was a good price.
Jeffs386
Member
posted: Mar. 2, 2010 @ 11:53a
correct because plasmas do not need interpolation since they do not suffer from motion blur like lcd
Just a little "inside" info. 3D sets are going to fail because you need to wear glasses and people don't want to wear glasses when watching TV. People are usually doing other stuff when TV is on (eating, cooking etc...) When you are just sitting there, the glasses are heavy (I have tried it) and very annoying. And all the people that have been buying flat panels the last few years don't want to throw out there TVs already to buy a new technology. Samsung tried this already on their DLPs and it flopped miserably. People don't even know they exist because it did so bad (yes you needed glasses which were a pain). Not to mention that Panasonic is the only company to give 1 pair for free with their TVs and additional glasses cost around $200 per pair.
I would think its possible with a multilayer screen to give the illusion thats its 3D, or at least slightly 3d. I don't think that part is to hard for the tech gods to design. The hard part is, how do you design a camera to capture this live without having to edit it to work on a multilayer screen.
Consumer reports didn't rate this tv very highly in its last rating of LCDs. Not that it's a reason to pass on a great deal for this tv, but just an FYI for people that like CR's opinion.
astroruben said: I'm waiting until they fix the soap opera effect.
This is the main reason I bought my Samsung. When I watch Dark Knight and the Joker releases the green gas in the bank, it looks like it's coming out of the screen! You want a 3D TV? The Samsung is already a 3D TV. And by the way, this feature can be turned off.
But I'm telling you, watching TV with the "soap opera effect" has changed my life!
GBmanNC
Member
posted: Mar. 2, 2010 @ 6:08p
TedMetro said: Consumer reports didn't rate this tv very highly in its last rating of LCDs. Not that it's a reason to pass on a great deal for this tv, but just an FYI for people that like CR's opinion.
They rated the 6000 and 7000 higher, which doesn't make a lick of sense.They tend to do it often too. Tvs with pretty much the exact same panel get rated drastically different. I would have to question their testing methodology because it seems you could get the same results pulling numbers out of a hat.
ChewbaccaJoe said: astroruben said: I'm waiting until they fix the soap opera effect.
This is the main reason I bought my Samsung. When I watch Dark Knight and the Joker releases the green gas in the bank, it looks like it's coming out of the screen! You want a 3D TV? The Samsung is already a 3D TV. And by the way, this feature can be turned off.
But I'm telling you, watching TV with the "soap opera effect" has changed my life!
I agree with you 100%! I got a Samsung lnt5271 two years ago and I was sold on the Soap Opera effect. It was "jarring" like one poster said, but in a really good way. It still has an absolute awesome picture, but I think I may have gotten used to the effect since i don't notice it like I did in the past.
CelicaGT
New Member
posted: Mar. 2, 2010 @ 7:55p
Mine (7000 55 inch) makes buzzing sound from lower right corner (I don't think its speaker but I can be wrong.) The buzzing is not there all the time only appears from time to time and quick change of channel fixes it. I ruled out interference (moved out all device away from it and I have high end cables.) First time I heard it I checked google and behold samsung has issues with it. Mind you I still like the TV very much.
Unxpekted
New Member
posted: Mar. 2, 2010 @ 9:38p
Is this TV much better than the LN46B750. I am trying to decide between the two. I understand one is a LCD and one is LED please enlighten brilliant minds.
PS. What is this soap opera/jarring stuff everyone loves?
Just a little "inside" info. 3D sets are going to fail because you need to wear glasses and people don't want to wear glasses when watching TV. People are usually doing other stuff when TV is on (eating, cooking etc...) When you are just sitting there, the glasses are heavy (I have tried it) and very annoying. And all the people that have been buying flat panels the last few years don't want to throw out there TVs already to buy a new technology. Samsung tried this already on their DLPs and it flopped miserably. People don't even know they exist because it did so bad (yes you needed glasses which were a pain). Not to mention that Panasonic is the only company to give 1 pair for free with their TVs and additional glasses cost around $200 per pair.
I just don't see it happening anytime soon.
We have a few 3D sets at work (even the new Samsung 46C7000) and I can say they are pretty cool, but those Shutter glasses aren't too comfortable, barely adjustable, and need line of sight with a limited viewing angle. If you turned your head off angle of the transmitter you would lose the shutter and the 3D. But I will say watching sports in 3D was pretty cool. Hopefully they'll get the passive/polarized versions out eventually.
WilliamG said: Jeffs386 said: correct because plasmas do not need interpolation since they do not suffer from motion blur like lcd
Wrong. Frame interpolation is nothing to do with the refresh rate of an LCD. Don't misinform people. There's a reason 600hz Plasmas exist...
A "600hz plasma" does not mean the screen refreshes at 600hz, as in 600 frames per second. It is how many times the pixels are flashed per second, again it does not mean 600FPS. It is just marketing garbage to counteract LCD's marketing.
Not starting a plasma vs LCD thing here, but thought I should clarify myself. I prefer plasma, have a 58" downstairs (awaiting delivery of my 65" to replace it) and a 50" in my bedroom. I have a 46" LCD on the computer just so I don't have to look at IR (notice I didn't say burn-in) from the constant static image of a computer on a plasma screen.
best deal is to get a 60hz TV while you still can, all this 240hz stuff is non-sense, just look at them side by side with the same material. I'm not downplaying the LED of this set, but this whole hz thing is a scam to all but the nut case videophile who would rather tweak their TV than enjoy it, its not worth it. Just get a good LCD like Samsung or Sony and you'll be happier than say a Vizio at 240hz
Unxpekted
New Member
posted: Mar. 3, 2010 @ 12:04p
the ln46b650 is not available for the price you stated, neither is it available at frys for delivery.
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