DMCA, Black Friday - where we stand, and what we are doing about it.

Kudos, Chief Muckety Muck. We're all behind you!

And, if they successfully prevent you from posting the deals, I'm sure there will be other places to (cough) get them.

Link fixed now that Yahoo! group is gone.

I hope that the EFF will agree to help you fight this and I completely understand your current position.

Here's a thought...take it one step further. Remove ALL POSTS that contain information about DEALS or PRODUCTS at those establishments No reason why they should dictate how/when/why they get to enjoy the benefits of Fat Wallet readership!

Better yet, just put new threads stating these idiotic merchants are offering zero deals throughout the holiday season, so no need to shop there.

Maybe I'm being too simplistic, but if I own a business, the whole reason I'm advertising is to get consumers into my store. So I send out mailings. I don't see the problem if somebody copies that flyer and posts it or redistributes it...that's just more consumers reached without me having to PAY to reach them. Maybe I have to worry that the re-distributed flyer is incorrect, but as it's not an "official" flyer it can't be legally binding. I'd just have to explain to the consumer about that. But at that point the consumer is already IN MY STORE and giving me the opportunity to grab their business. What's the big deal? What am I missing??

Tim, do they specify what section of the DMCA is being infringed upon?

I'd be greatly interested in what sections of the DMCA these guys are invoking.

i can totally buy the arguement that they don't want their competition to get a leg up on their sales. But companies are responsible for not releasing their secret information. And it's not like everyone's sales weren't posted, so everyone's playing with an even deck so to speak. Let's remember back to Econ 101. Competition only works with "perfect information." I do find the whole hiding advertisements rather ironic. Understandable, but ironic.

Comparing future advertisements to mp3's or divx is a joke and only perpetuates a well deserved reputation for lawyers and our legal system. But after looking at all the sales that were listed, I can see a the real concern wuhoo addressed. People plan their shopping by these sales. There aren't any sales that are TONS better than we already get through these forums, or really the general public sees through sales. I'm guessing retailers are afraid that if the general public knew black friday was a really a thing of the past living on through past momentum, shoppers wouldn't show up. I have built one computer for parents and helped a friend build one a few months ago. There isn't a single black friday deal that is any better (or really equal for that matter) than stuff we bought weeks or months ago (thank you FatWallet!!).

i think the real thing retailers should fear is that after this year, black friday will mean nothing, or worse, Red Friday, as in Red ink. I know I have shown up at stores that have advertised huge sales only to find diddly squat. And I've never returned to those stores. Ever. Retailers should think about that rather than running in circles trying to apply a bad law to something it has nothing to do with. Maybe retailers should get rid of some lawyers to help their bottom line.

fatwallet,

Keep publishing the names of the whining stores. Hopefully, the consumer will do the rest.

I think what Walmart, Target and the like are trying to do is to keep prices secret until they are published...most will publish them this Sunday in the paper, once that happens we can put the deals up on this site. It is not like we can do anything with the products until next Friday anyway.
This is why companies have employees sign confidentiality agreement, so that information is not leaked before the company is ready to announce it themselves.

Interesting, I was unaware that research (what it's usually called when you read several works (copyrighted or not) and distill the information into a report) was banned by the DMCA.

What? You only summarized one copyrighted work? Well, the DMCA was created to protect "content" from being digitally copied and distributed. If I looked at an advance copy of SWII-AOTC and then summarized the really good parts on a forum, I'm not distributing the "content." They could rightfully deny me an advanced copy of the next movie, but I wouldn't be subject to prosecution.

BTW - does the DMCA provide for civil damages? If not, corporations are usurping govenmental powers to police the laws. But then again, I suppose if you're big enough and you've got the executive branch in your hip pocket (they control the law enforcement agencies) you can do anything!

BTW - FW, I understand your position. There are precious few small business people who have the $$$ to defend themselves against such claims, even if false. I hope the big media picks up on this and gets the story correct.

bennenite said:

<< Unbelievable!
<minor rant>
It seems counter-productive for these big companies to upset a large group of potential consumers. After all, people come here LOOKING FOR WAYS TO SPEND MONEY. Why make them mad. These prices have been set for some time- putting them up on this board a little early is FREE ADVERTISING!
</minor rant over>

I support you Chief >>

If you couple this with the fact that every store has some sort of pricematching policy, I fail to see how do any store would get a leg up on the other?

I agree with most sentiments expressed above.

The economy is already weak. Consumers are the only component holding the survival key at this point in time. Corporations such as WalMart, Target, BestBuy, Staples and others are heading for analysts downgrades if their financial numbers slump. They wanna talk cocky now and use DMCA against FatWallet ? You know what, Tim, the consumers have the freedom to choose where they shop. And you know what, consumers and pro-consumer sites such as FatWallet have the most powerful weapon against cocky corporations - Word Of Mouth ! Let's see who has the last laugh when Wall Street punishes these few arrogant companies.

FatWallet.Com said:

<< The concern that is mentioned by every merchant that I have spoken with is this - "Competition" - They don't want their competitors to have a chance to react prior to the date of the sale when the information becomes "public" >>

BULL$#!T

As someone who works in the retail industry at the exexutive level, I can say with almost complete certainty that EVERY store knows what their competition is planning. There are moles in all companies and people leave one company for a competitor and share info. with their friends at the former company.

They can also get the info. the same way that people here do--newspaper circulars are printed and delivered in advance. They are not under lock and key.

Even if they got their competitiors' prices for the first time by reading the circulars in the newspaper on Sat/Sun (or on Thanksgiving), all it takes is a simple price change in their systems and an e-mail to all of their stores to get the price changed to match/beat the competition on Sunday morning (or Black Friday).

When K-Mart has the lowest advertised price on a DVD, WalMart always ends up beating it by a few cents THE VERY SAME DAY that the price was advertised. Now how do you think they accomplish that so quickly? Psychics????

I don't suppose posting the Black Friday info on a server that is hosted in another country would violate the DMCA.. I wonder what hosting rates in Canada are like.. hmmmm

They will be back in January begging us to buy their crap. I predict that they will not have a great season this year. The black Friday sales are the worst I have seen in years. I am holding onto my money for better deals.

Casey said:

<< When will it be "ok" to post the Black Friday sales again? I wonder if this will lead to the same companies forcing sites not to list their normal weekly ads? >>

When will it be OK? Probably Black Friday + 1 (in other words Saturday).

Let's organize a huge boycott of all of these stores, go to Bananatech, Dealhour, technobargains, etc, and post:

Save the Constitution: Don't shop at these stores on Black Friday!!! (and why)


Now it truly is a Black Friday when our basic free speech rights are being abridged by a right wing government which values large corporations' rights over our basic constitutional rights.

This really makes me angry!!!!!(in case you didn't notice)

Attention: This thread has been "Slashdotted". Depending on the strength of the server, there may be some mild turbulence. Please remain seated, place tray-tables in their upright position, and remain calm. Thank you for your cooperation.

do you know how i can get to the list of things for kmart's friday sale?