In "markbers" threads or via his(her) web site he is requesting several bank sign up referrals which (I thought) was not allowed. I reported this to FW over a year ago and nothing was ever done about it. I also reported it again this morning. Sure doesn't seem fair that one person gets to request referrals and others are not allowed.
He is not asking that you sign up through his name so he can receive the money. If so, then it would not be allowed. He is telling the names of the banks and the amount you would receive if you referred a friend. There is not a problem with that.
First Internet Bank of Indiana-When directed to his site he receives $10 for each referral. Same for the ones below. After being directed to his site, you request the link from him or enter his email address so he receives the referral payment.
There are a few referral links there, but I think it's warranted, since they are deals that are only available by referral. Maybe FW should consider creating its own referral links to those banks...
There are a few referral links there, but I think it's warranted, since they are deals that are only available by referral. Maybe FW should consider creating its own referral links to those banks...
The point is NO referral links are allowed.
GBWisc
Senior Member - 3K
posted: Aug. 2, 2004 @ 12:36p
stateofmind said: jayK said: You're referring to the page he links to...
There are a few referral links there, but I think it's warranted, since they are deals that are only available by referral. Maybe FW should consider creating its own referral links to those banks...
The point is NO referral links are allowed. Well he isn't actually using any referral links on FW. He just says something to the effect of for more information click on the link above... which I wouldn't say goes to "his personal site", but rather a post he made on another board. So 1) it is two degrees of seperation for linking and 2) Like JayK said, you cannot get the deals any other way. He isn't being tricky or deceitful about the referral links, just letting you know that they are there. Again, this info isn't on FW's site, so I guess they could Mod out the link to his post on another board, but I don't think this is a flagarant violation of the referral policy. Seems to be more helpful than personally advantageous.
There are a few referral links there, but I think it's warranted, since they are deals that are only available by referral. Maybe FW should consider creating its own referral links to those banks...
The point is NO referral links are allowed. Well he isn't actually using any referral links on FW. He just says something to the effect of for more information click on the link above... which I wouldn't say goes to "his personal site", but rather a post he made on another board. So 1) it is two degrees of seperation for linking and 2) Like JayK said, you cannot get the deals any other way. He isn't being tricky or deceitful about the referral links, just letting you know that they are there. Again, this info isn't on FW's site, so I guess they could Mod out the link to his post on another board, but I don't think this is a flagarant violation of the referral policy. Seems to be more helpful than personally advantageous.
It is "markbers" PERSONAL SITE, he admits it in his other threads directing you to his site (board).
jayK
Senior Member - JayK
posted: Aug. 2, 2004 @ 12:56p
stateofmind said: It is "markbers" PERSONAL SITE, he admits it in his other threads directing you to his site (board).
That's true, he is the site admin at the board in question. However, the nature of his thread is such that referrals are necessary. If you put together a valuable collection of referral-only deals like he did, I'm sure your thread would be left alone, despite the referral links.
So chill out.
GBWisc
Senior Member - 3K
posted: Aug. 2, 2004 @ 12:57p
stateofmind said: ...It is "markbers" PERSONAL SITE, he admits it in his other threads directing you to his site (board). Hmmm... I wouldn't exactly say it's a "personal site", but OK. It is a site that is clearly administered by him. It looks more the a message board with a hundred or so users contributing to Banking Info stuff.
What is the main beef here though? Do you have a web page or forum similar to his that you'd like to direct people to? Is he a competitor of yours or something? Since you registered just to post this to the FW forum, I don't know what your motivation is for the linking thing.
Again, even in the offending thread there are only 3 or 4 links in the 75 listed that are for referrals. The links clearly state referral. The page (or post) just seems like a huge list of resources to go to for cash back on accounts.
The third-party nature of FatWallet builds our integrity. We host forums for the benefit of all consumers, providing knowledge, value and guidance along the way.
It boils down to this: Is the post for personal gain, in which the OP stands to receive greater benefit than those who follow? Or, is his post simply for the good of our community? While sometimes simple… it’s tough to measure. From what I can tell, the answer is “yes,” the community stands to benefit, yet the OP stands to benefit more.
To his credit, this OP has garnered support from fellow FW’ers, and a positive rating for his thread. Usually when an OP gains out of proportion to his contribution, our members vote and note appropriately. And it is perfectly within members’ rights to comment on any apparent personal gain in the thread.
On the other hand, consistent moderation deletes any posts that stand to benefit the poster. We will modify his post so as to clearly benefit the FW community, maintain its integrity, and yet reduce the chances of personal benefit. We will de-linkify mentions of OP's site.
We’re here to do what’s right, and we’ll consider the available information in so-doing. Feel free to weigh in with more perspectives.
Thanks for being here, everyone!
jayK
Senior Member - JayK
posted: Aug. 2, 2004 @ 5:46p
Maybe you could expand the cash back mall to include these banks, so FW can get a benefit from referrals, and users would still have easy access to these deals?
There are a number of other finance-oriented deals that depend on referrals (for example, the new offer from Citi that gives you $50 if you refer someone to get a new credit card, max of $250) that wouldn't necessarily be worth it for FW to participate in...perhaps there could be a new "referral zone" forum where referrals are allowed? Something like the gmail invitations forum, but more general.
With all due respect to the moderators, the bank account bonus thread is just about useless without the link to markber's site that was deleted. Considering there are only a few referral links out of the dozens of account bonuses that markber has compiled, and none of those are directly linked on FW, I don't see what the big deal is. It is obvious that the intent on this one was to share information and not to fish for referrals.
I am hopeful the issue will be reconsidered and one of the most useful resources on FW Finance will NOT be killed.
markber
Senior Member
posted: Aug. 5, 2004 @ 2:42a
I can remove all "referral deals" from the bank bonus list on the iBankDesign.com webpage that is linked to my FatWallet post. It is not going to be a big loss because these programs offer small bonuses =< $25 and there are only five of them. Will this make a difference?
The ideal solution would be a program that could convert a text with links in BB format to a text with links in Fuse Talk format. If I had it, I could probably convert my iBankDesign post into FatWallet format without wasting too much time. Without such a program, I just can not afford to spend time on reformating all links in my post. I failed to find such a program or script online. If FatWallet admins want me to keep FatWallet community informed about bank deals, we have to find a compromise that would allow me to link an iBankDesign web page with the bank deals to my FatWallet post.
Mark
AlPicone
Senior Member
posted: Aug. 5, 2004 @ 2:01p
markber said: I can remove all "referral deals" from the bank bonus list on the iBankDesign.com webpage that is linked to my FatWallet post. It is not going to be a big loss because these programs offer small bonuses =< $25 and there are only five of them. Will this make a difference?
The ideal solution would be a program that could convert a text with links in BB format to a text with links in Fuse Talk format. If I had it, I could probably convert my iBankDesign post into FatWallet format without wasting too much time. Without such a program, I just can not afford to spend time on reformating all links in my post. I failed to find such a program or script online. If FatWallet admins want me to keep FatWallet community informed about bank deals, we have to find a compromise that would allow me to link an iBankDesign web page with the bank deals to my FatWallet post.
Mark
It looks like he put a lot of work into that post. If he is willing to take the time and effort to compile a list where other FW members can benefit from theses deal then why not let him benefit also. If you dont use hsi referal link then no one gets the refferal bonus. Why should it go to waste. Better in a fellow FWers pocket than a banks pocket!
To quote one FW's rules "Self-promotion and referral links are not allowed. If you would like to advertise on FatWallet, please contact advertise@fatwallet.com".
Another quote, "Do not post promotional information for a commercial website which you are an affiliate, employee, owner or otherwise receive financial benefit from".
I really don't know why FW is bending the rules for this poster. When other referral programs are posted or when posts benefit someone they are IMMEDIATELLY DELETED altogether. Either referral programs are allowed or they are not, unless FW is going to bend the rules for everyone. Also thought "Advertisements" were not allowed either.
jayK
Senior Member - JayK
posted: Aug. 5, 2004 @ 9:28p
stateofmind said: I really don't know why FW is bending the rules for this poster. The FW staff can do whatever it wants, including bending the rules for a post that provides a lot of value to the community.
I really don't know why you are so concerned about this...do you have something against this poster? Are you bitter because one of your own referrals was deleted?
MarkM
Tired Member
posted: Aug. 6, 2004 @ 6:52p
I used to be in favor of banning referral links too, but now complaints about those things are silly IMO, FW is itself posting advertising, collecting referral $ through cashback, and even transforming the words we type into links (anyone else sick of the word Gap being linkified & capitalized every time they type it?) so they have pretty much surrendered the high ground on that issue. If they would've let you keep them, you should've. The only "Gap" between what you had & what FW is doing, IMO, is that you were splitting the spoils with the person you were trying to get to click your links, and were taking referral $s that the clicker would not have been able to get anyway. In FW case, in many cases where a clicker uses their links, they could have gotten a cut of the cash FW gets if they had clicked a link at Ebates or netflip -- or even FW's own cash back mall. Note that if you are already a cash back mall participant, and click a link in a FW thread to buy something, there is no technical reason that FW could not give you a cut of their referral profit just as if you had gone through the cashback mall. They simply have chosen to implement it so that you have to explicitly show through your actions that you expect to get a cut of the referral, before they will give it to you.
ilovenoelle
Senior Member - 1K
posted: Aug. 7, 2004 @ 4:36p
Whats the big deal? It hasn't hurt anybody so why don't we just leave it alone. If the mods thought there was a problem they would have already deleted the post.
Sorry but thats just how I feel.
MarkM
Tired Member
posted: Aug. 7, 2004 @ 9:19p
ilovenoelle said: Whats the big deal? It hasn't hurt anybody so why don't we just leave it alone.I don't know why we don't. That's a very good question.If the mods thought there was a problem they would have already deleted the post.They did.
MarkM said: Note that if you are already a cash back mall participant, and click a link in a FW thread to buy something, there is no technical reason that FW could not give you a cut of their referral profit just as if you had gone through the cashback mall. They simply have chosen to implement it so that you have to explicitly show through your actions that you expect to get a cut of the referral, before they will give it to you.
The problem is not technical in nature. The problem is in expectations.
Some merchants do not allow us to use affiliate links from within forum content.
Some offers posted in the forums are not approved by the affiliate channel and thus earn no revenue.
For many links, we are not able to attach our affiliate link automatically, and can only do so manually (which can be hours after the topic was created).
Because of these reasons, we make the decision to not issue cash back on forum links... HOWEVER - if we receive a support ticket from a cash back user, we look at all traceable purchases (including forum links) and will give credit to the users cash back account if we are able to find the transaction, even if it was from a forum link.
If we stated "Earn cash back on forum links", the customer service issues would be an absolute nightmare.
Thanks for your thoughts on the subject, I hope I have addressed them fully. We will continue to look for ways to remind people to use the cash back mall whenever possible. (The simple fact is that users that use our cash back mall are more profitable than those who don't, despite giving these very same users the majority of the affiliate revenues earned)
MarkM
Tired Member
posted: Aug. 9, 2004 @ 3:41p
Thank you for the reply Tim. I hadn't thought of the "CS nightmare." I also hadn't realized that you do credit from forum links. But if some merchants don't let you use affiliate links within forums, why then the auto-genned links? I guessed I just assumed that you at least were profitting from them. They're kind of ... distracting, IMO they make it a little harder to pick out the links I really want (i.e. those created by the OP straight to the deal), those kind of links don't stand out as much anymore. Not a big deal, mind you, but if you're not benefitting from them, and (most) readers aren't, I wonder if anyone really is? Just a thought.
jayK
Senior Member - JayK
posted: Aug. 9, 2004 @ 3:44p
MarkM said: But if some merchants don't let you use affiliate links within forums, why then the auto-genned links? I'm sure the merchants still pay a fee to be autolinked, they just don't give FW a percentage of sales.
markber said: I can remove all "referral deals" from the bank bonus list on the iBankDesign.com webpage that is linked to my FatWallet post. It is not going to be a big loss because these programs offer small bonuses =< $25 and there are only five of them. Will this make a difference? ... Mark
Yes, permission granted (and communicated directly to markber).
I think markber will have link to the new page entered soon back here in the OP. I'm glad we could find a workable solution!
markber
Senior Member
posted: Aug. 14, 2004 @ 5:21p
footn200 said: markber said: I can remove all "referral deals" from the bank bonus list on the iBankDesign.com webpage that is linked to my FatWallet post. It is not going to be a big loss because these programs offer small bonuses =< $25 and there are only five of them. Will this make a difference? ... Mark
Yes, permission granted (and communicated directly to markber).
I think markber will have link to the new page entered soon back here in the OP. I'm glad we could find a workable solution!
I made a special FatWallet edition of my thread without ING Direct, Virtual Bank (even though I do not offer refferals for Virtual Bank), FirstIB, PCBanker and US Bank (even though I do not offer the bonus for US Bank) bonuses and posted the link to that page in my thread. I hope that FatWallet will find a way to obtain/write a program that would convert a BB post to the FuseTalk format so we could solve this problem permanently and my post would not make anybody feel treated unfairly. I would like to thank all members who supported the "Active Bank Bonuses" thread in this discussion and FatWallet admins for willingness to find a compromise solution. Mark.
SeriusBlack
Senior Member - 4K
posted: Aug. 18, 2004 @ 11:20p
stateofmind, I think your Daddy ought to take you out behind the woodshed and beat your butt into a bloody mess!!!! markber has taken the time to publish an excellent thread that beneifts the entire FW community. Anyone that knows about referrals would still gladly give him any credit for finding such good deals.
I vote that markber be allowed to publish the direct links to those sites. It would benefit ALL of us; and yes, markber as well. He deserves it.
stateofmind has 11 posts in total. Looks like he came to FW just to stir up trouble!!!
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