As part of our continuing efforts to improve FatWallet we are considering methods to improve our search functions. As many of you have pointed out, our search currently leaves something to be desired. We have our own opinions on how to make search better, but we'd like to hear what you have to say.
This is not open season on what's wrong with search (though we do appreciate constructive criticism), but a request for your suggestions. What tools or options would you like? Be creative! We will be rewarding the most insightful responses with FatWallet schwag
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posted: Jan. 17, 2006 @ 3:53p
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thanks for the heads up maniac
discusbabe (Oct. 08, 2008 @ 7:30a)
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dconklin2736 (Jul. 16, 2009 @ 5:16p)
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Nice that this didn't get archived. It's kind of fun to read through and see what suggestions were actually incorporated... (more)
ThursdaysChild (Jul. 23, 2009 @ 3:25p)
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Gaiamera
Broke Member
rated:
posted: Jan. 17, 2006 @ 4:21p
the date! put a filter for posting date/last reply date please when i need to search something i dont want to see those 276 days old topic on top!
Take me to the first post of a thread where my search term appears. This would be especially useful for long threads where my term appears on page 87. Currently the only way I know of to do this is searching the "text only" version of the topic.
There's a choice of active or archived. I suggest adding a choice of both.
There's a choice of title or body, title only, body only. I suggest adding a choice of OP first post into the mix (& include Quick Summary in that choice). I also suggest this be converted to be checkboxes (like other sections in Search) instead of a dropdown (to make choices more obvious to those who don't look). Choices could be: Title Opening Post & Quick Summary Entire Message Body All of Above
There are likely many not familiar with Search Operators. Create an option of an Advanced Search similar to Google (must contain, not contain, all words, this phrase).
Now the biggest suggestion. An automatic 'intelligent' search on any OP post in FS & HD. On top of result would be "Please check the following to see if you might be reposting." This should be set to a high standard of match. Include in that a FW definition of a Repost (how old an OP date or last posting in thread date is not a repost).
1. can you guys please put a link for "advance search" below where the big search bar located on top right corner.
2. if i searched my id, it would be nice if you categorize search results by section and not by some random subjects. it has proven to be very ineffective. make it so, it will categorize my posts by what forum section I have posted on. Or at least provide it as an option. my id is just an example, but it could be anything else.
For my id: I get the following category on the left. Shipping (38) Card (15) Sale (13) Pdxor, Mart (8) Giveaway, 0utsidaz (8) Best Buy (6) Online Auctions (5) JediFreeStuff, Billrubin (4) DVD, Ktg (4) Arribasn (4)
As you can tell, they are not a big help in finding the correct post. It would have been better, if it was categorized by "hot deals", "computers", "offtopic", etc... instead.
3. Can you do something for "hot deals" so if I typed "WalMart", I get all the latest posts. Some people will post it as "WM", "wallymart", "china mart", or whatever. I shouldnt have to guess all these words to find ALL of the deals.
Another example of this is CC. Some people use this on their title while other will spell out the store name. So, if I am doing the search, i would have to spell it both ways.
4. I find the "hot deals" forum posting very confusing since people write Initial Headline different ways. Can you guys standardize the title? Like Only certain way to spell the store, followed by short description, follwed by price + ship, plus YMMV or price mistake initial.
I think this will it easy to read the titles and help to optimize the search.
5. can you also have link of "help" section for search. so, we know if any neumonics can be used. if it available, make it more available by placing a link on "advance search" page or Search results page.
Thanks for the opportunity... How about adding the ability to sort results ? Either by last post date, original post date, # of replies, even perhaps "rating" (fair, good, etc...)
Longhorn2k4 said: very confusing since people write Initial Headline different ways. Can you guys standardize the title? Like Only certain way to spell the store, followed by short description, follwed by price + ship, plus YMMV or price mistake initial.
I think this will it easy to read the titles and help to optimize the search.Bad Titles very much tie in to the OP's subject of improving Search.
It would be neat to have a choice in every OP post in FS & HD that says suggest Subject Title change. Clicking it would yield a 'special' PM to the OP. When OP opens the PM they should have choice of Accept or Decline or Modify. Accept would be 1 click & automatically change the Subject Title to the suggestion. Modify would allow OP to instantly edit & change. This special PM would contain a FW header explaining this. A final point I'd solicit feedback on is should this change automatically take effect if OP doesn't Decline within a certain amount of time? If yes, how much time? If yes, I'd suggest a minimum of 10 days as to not upset OPs who don't login that often.
I've often seen in other sites that too many aren't even aware of PMs or aren't aware of how/where to read them (sad but true). Perhaps there should also be an opening screen on login saying "You have x# of Private Messages. Would you like to read them now? Click Yes or No."
andywierling said: Thanks for the opportunity... How about adding the ability to sort results ? Either by last post date, original post date, # of replies, even perhaps "rating" (fair, good, etc...)
Thanks !
Should be able to click the heading to change the sort order to that criteria.
Also ake a hint from the popularity of digg.com, use the rating to develop a "front page" and allow users to see what other members rated and create a community of friends and watch what they rated high as well.
Gaiamera said: the date! put a filter for posting date/last reply date please when i need to search something i dont want to see those 276 days old topic on top!
bingo!!! pain in the butt to click on date everytime i search to get latest
Go back to incorporating all the search criteria in the resulting URL, so that we can simply use the browser's Refresh function, instead of the annoying "refresh" link that I have to search for and click on!
First, and its not a big deal, when I search I am searching for recent information. This is a deals site, and deals are time sensitive. Sort the results list by most recent posts first.
Second, and this one drive me NUTS: Allow and/or in searches. If I search for Home Depot, I get Dell Home, Office Depot, Pioneer Home Theatre, etc.
SOmetimes you NEED more than one word to better define/restrict your searches. My only way to search for Home Depot searches is to search for depot, then skim over the Office Depot posts.
edbenckert said: First, and its not a big deal, when I search I am searching for recent information. This is a deals site, and deals are time sensitive. Sort the results list by most recent posts first.What he said. I imagine that 90%+ of searchers know the approximate date of something they are looking for. Make date the default sort method. A thread's score means nothing to me and is not going to be remembered.
edbenckert said: Allow and/or in searches. If I search for Home Depot, I get Dell Home, Office Depot, Pioneer Home Theatre, etc.
SOmetimes you NEED more than one word to better define/restrict your searches. My only way to search for Home Depot searches is to search for depot, then skim over the Office Depot posts.
PLEASE add 'AND' to your searches! This proves 1 of the things I said. That's why systems need to provide the lowest common denominator & then allow customizing for higher denominators.
edbenckert, see on Search page: search phrase search tips
Blip said: Go back to incorporating all the search criteria in the resulting URL, so that we can simply use the browser's Refresh function, instead of the annoying "refresh" link that I have to search for and click on!I second this...if the criteria are in the URL, it lets us link to search results in posts.
zoomerton said: It would be neat to have a choice in every OP post in FS & HD that says suggest Subject Title change.A spell checker that contains the correct names of retailers would work just as well. When a poster hits the submit button, the spell check would run, and changes could be suggested right then.
Definitely add sort function - Orig post, recent post, etc. Also add AND function, so I can select Depot and Headphones to find all of the deals at HomeDepot and OfficeDepot that have headphones. Now I have to search for one of those words. If I search for both, I get all Depot hits as well as all headphone hits. Thanks!
jayK said: zoomerton said: It would be neat to have a choice in every OP post in FS & HD that says suggest Subject Title change.A spell checker that contains the correct names of retailers would work just as well. When a poster hits the submit button, the spell check would run, and changes could be suggested right then.Much more is involved than just the retailer name or free site name (& they wouldn't all be in the search database).
zoomerton said: Much more is involved than just the retailer name or free site name (& they wouldn't all be in the search database). You're right, but I don't like your idea of encouraging members to send me PMs with title suggestions. No thanks. And what happens when someone posts a really great deal with a really bad title? That may be annoying, but it isn't an excuse to flood that person with PMs. And how could the title be automatically changed, as you mentioned, if there are 50 different suggestions? And what if a suggested title is something worse than the original? I don't believe anything like this could work, but I think that a slightly better concept would be to have the title suggestion visible in the thread. Then X number of votes by other members would change the title of the thread (similar to the dead flag). But that still wouldn't solve the problem of bad suggested titles. I just don't think there is a good way for title changes to be automated. And considering what I've seen members do with the Quick Summary, I really don't think they can or should be trusted to change thread titles. People would suggest titles like "DEAD DEAD DEAD!!!!!!" and "Not Hot."
Currently, if I search for for a particular user's posts (including my own) in other people's threads, the search returns the entire thread, then you have to open the thread, click "print" to open the entire thread in one window and search again using Windows "control+F" to find posts by the individual user name. I'd like the search feature to give me the choice of the entire thread, or just the posts made by the user name I specified in the first place. So, if I search for posts by "titewad", then I have to option to have only the content of my individual posts appear in the results.
Topic Alerts may not be considered searches, but I think they are, so I have a suggestion for them too. Topic alerts should only alert to "words", not part of a word. For example, if I setup a topic alert for "free", I get alerts for "freedom", "stayfree maxie pads", etc., which is not what I want. Also, topic alerts are returning hits on the content of a post instead of the thread title. I'll let others chime in on this, but I think the alerts should only search the title, not the entire post as it does now.
I have another suggestion which is somewhat search related by not directly. In order to mark a thread I'm interested in, I have to subscribe to it which means I get a notice every time someone posts to it. I'd like to see another option for "bookmarking" a thread. Yes, I know I can bookmark in Internet Explorer, but if the thread is moved, and we know how much that happens at FW, then my bookmark is no longer valid. I'd like to be able to click a "bookmark" button which would cause the thread to appear in the "Today" FW forum under a new section called bookmarked threads, and let FW automatically update the the links if the threads are moved from one forum to another. Bookmarking threads would greatly reduce my need for searches and I'm sure other users would feel the same way, plus I don't get an email for every new post.
edbenckert said: Second, and this one drive me NUTS: Allow and/or in searches. If I search for Home Depot, I get Dell Home, Office Depot, Pioneer Home Theatre, etc.
SOmetimes you NEED more than one word to better define/restrict your searches. My only way to search for Home Depot searches is to search for depot, then skim over the Office Depot posts.
PLEASE add 'AND' to your searches!
I agree, this is THE biggest annoyance. Being able to use typical search criteria such as Quotes, +, -, would be a HUGE improvement. I've tried it here and it just doesn't work.
MechanicalMan said: zoomerton said: Much more is involved than just the retailer name or free site name (& they wouldn't all be in the search database). You're right, but I don't like your idea of encouraging members to send me PMs with title suggestions. No thanks. And what happens when someone posts a really great deal with a really bad title? That may be annoying, but it isn't an excuse to flood that person with PMs. And how could the title be automatically changed, as you mentioned, if there are 50 different suggestions? And what if a suggested title is something worse than the original? I don't believe anything like this could work, but I think that a slightly better concept would be to have the title suggestion visible in the thread. Then X number of votes by other members would change the title of the thread (similar to the dead flag). But that still wouldn't solve the problem of bad suggested titles. I just don't think there is a good way for title changes to be automated. And considering what I've seen members do with the Quick Summary, I really don't think they can or should be trusted to change thread titles. People would suggest titles like "DEAD DEAD DEAD!!!!!!" and "Not Hot."OPs with good titles wouldn't likely get many or any edit suggestions. OPs with poor undescriptive titles could learn after awhile.
As to how the title could be changed, as I said OP gets PM that includes Accept or Edit or Decline (unless sender is on their Ignore list). There could possibly be a customization choice to not receive any special Title PMs. People who use customization are likely to be better at titling posts too. If any Title PMs were annoying or abusive they could be saved (not deleted) & reported to a Moderator. Those abusing this idea could be prevented from further using it.
As to multiple title change suggestions, OP could choose which if any they want to Accept or Edit. Multiple suggestions do negate my idea of automatically implementing if OP doesn't login for x # of days. There, you have a good point.
I disagree with your thought of voting on title changes, as voting is too easily abused. Also, title suggestions placed in the thread would not help the forum view in deciding whether to open a thread.
What I believe many of us can agree is that fixing the title/subject current situation is a significant part of fixing the whole poor search mess as you can't do a good search for something that's not there to be found. So perhaps starting a thread should also include certain checkboxes & certain fields to fill in.
zoomerton said: OPs with good titles wouldn't likely get many or any edit suggestions. OPs with poor undescriptive titles could learn after awhile. I think you're wrong.
As to how the title could be changed, as I said... You want to send these people PMs. And how is that going to help? If they were present and interested in changing the titles, they would do it when a title change is requested in a thread. What makes you think that a PM will get a different result? There's no reason to believe that would be effective. And people won't appreciate being flooded with PMs.
I disagree with your thought of voting on title changes, as voting is too easily abused. Members are already able to vote for a dead flag, rate threads, rate replies, and change the QS...right?
Also, title suggestions placed in the thread would not help the forum view in deciding whether to open a thread. Seems like you missed the point. Anyhow, I said it wasn't a good idea. Nothing like that would work well.
MechanicalMan said: If they were present and interested in changing the titles, they would do it when a title change is requested in a thread. What makes you think that a PM will get a different result?
Members are already able to vote for a dead flag, rate threads, rate replies, and change the QS...right?You're question assumes that people who create poor titles even khow how to Edit or that they even go back to read all comments in the thread just because they were the OP. That's why I think it's different.
I do see how opposed you are to the suggestion & that's why I added to allow opting out in customization. That would allow those open to help the opportunity to receive it in an easy way with a 1 click Accept or Decline (or Edit).
Your statement above on voting is yes accurate but doesn't address the point that it's flawed (not the topic here but I was just replying to your earlier point on voting title changes could be abused even more than other voting).
zoomerton said: What I believe many of us can agree is that fixing the title/subject current situation is a significant part of fixing the whole poor search mess as you can't do a good search for something that's not there to be found. So perhaps starting a thread should also include certain checkboxes & certain fields to fill in.
I agree with this suggestion and in fact, I emailed Tim a few years ago with the same suggestion. I recommended that titles be created by filling out out a form that requested manufacturer name, model, item desciption, price, store, and start and end dates - if applicable, plus check boxes to indicate AR/FAR/PM/AC/B&M etc., and free form text that would tacked onto the end of the title. Wouldn't it be nice to have relevant, consistent, searchable titles without "Hotter than the sun!!!!" and other irrelevant prefixes? This way, all the pertinent info is right at the begining of the title, which even makes reading the titles and detemining if the deal applies to you much easier. How many threads have you opened just to find out the deal was only available at Fry's or Microcenter B&M when you live nowhere near the retailer?
Using this method, we would see thread titles like this:
Sony DEF825 MP3 player 29.99 @ BB 1/15-1/21 AR Belkin FD2031 G Router 0.00 @ CC 1/22 1/29 FAR Kitchenaid FP1025MX 5-quart Mixer $149.99 @ Amazon AC, plus free 3-piece cutting board set.
Obviously, not all hot deals are store bought merchandise, but the free form text option would be the only thing that would be displayed in the title if the other fields were left blank so titles like, "Free MS Office 2003 for attending xx event" would still be able to be posted.
titewad said: I agree with this suggestion and in fact, I emailed Tim a few years ago with the same suggestion. I recommended that titles be created by filling out out a form that requested manufacturer name, model, item desciption, price, store, and start and end dates - if applicable, plus check boxes to indicate AR/FAR/PM/AC/B&M etc., and free form text that would tacked onto the end of the title. Wouldn't it be nice to have relevant, consistent, searchable titles without "Hotter than the sun!!!!" and other irrelevant prefixes? This way, all the pertinent info is right at the begining of the title, which even makes reading the titles and detemining if the deal applies to you much easier. How many threads have you opened just to find out the deal was only available at Fry's or MIcrocenter B&M when you live nowhere near the retailer?
Using this method, we would see thread titles like this:
Sony DEF825 MP3 player 29.99 @ BB 1/15-1/21 AR Belkin FD2031 G Router 0.00 @ CC 1/22 1/29 FAR Kitchenaid FP1025MX 5-cup Mixer $149.99 @ Amazon AC, plus free 3-piece cutting board set.
I for one love the idea. I want to know the store, the item, the price, and any details (PM, AR). I dont care if it's smoking hot. I dont care if it's lukewarm. I don't care for junk like "You wont believe this deal!" I just wanna know what the item is.
edbenckert said: titewad said: I agree with this suggestion and in fact, I emailed Tim a few years ago with the same suggestion. I recommended that titles be created by filling out out a form that requested manufacturer name, model, item desciption, price, store, and start and end dates - if applicable, plus check boxes to indicate AR/FAR/PM/AC/B&M etc., and free form text that would tacked onto the end of the title. Wouldn't it be nice to have relevant, consistent, searchable titles without "Hotter than the sun!!!!" and other irrelevant prefixes? This way, all the pertinent info is right at the begining of the title, which even makes reading the titles and detemining if the deal applies to you much easier. How many threads have you opened just to find out the deal was only available at Fry's or MIcrocenter B&M when you live nowhere near the retailer?
Using this method, we would see thread titles like this:
Sony DEF825 MP3 player 29.99 @ BB 1/15-1/21 AR Belkin FD2031 G Router 0.00 @ CC 1/22 1/29 FAR Kitchenaid FP1025MX 5-cup Mixer $149.99 @ Amazon AC, plus free 3-piece cutting board set.
I for one love the idea. I want to know the store, the item, the price, and any details (PM, AR). I dont care if it's smoking hot. I dont care if it's lukewarm. I don't care for junk like "You wont believe this deal!" I just wanna know what the item is.Agreed. Plus list location IF very limited like 1 City or Metro Area or State.
For Free Stuff, checkoffs for things like call-in, SASE, email, B&M, SW download, printables.
i would like the search to autmatically search through archived threads and just highlight them a light blue or something to indicate they are archived threads and not active. Or maybe even have an icon next to it.
It would be nice to be able to save our search words and phrases, so that if we can't find what we're looking for one day we can come back later and just click on that saved phrase and it will do a new search instantly.
Once you are inside a Hot Deal topic or any topic, you should be able to search just that topic only. For example one of the topics I am reading has 1700 posts in a weeks time. I would like to search just that topic.
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You should be able to "order" searches by date of original topic
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searching is just too difficult on FW
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I agree with titewad's suggestion also many people are just too vauge with their posts........
Maybe the first search attempt gives me what I want, but it also returns a lot of other results that aren't what I want. I would like to be able to conduct another search only within the results of the first search. That way, I could successively weed out the bad results. Allowing boolean AND in the search terms would be equivalent to this I think, but searches within results might be more intuitive for some.
If you don't want to make the default for everyone to be "sort by date", let users set their own default prefs. Personally, I find it annoying to do a search and each time have to hit the "date" link to get the newest deals first. . . .
Being able to restrict a search to a specific thread and display the actual messages which contain the keywords would be nice.
In other words, the current search only tells you which threads contain the keywords, but some threads (the most popular/useful ones) have thousands of posts. We need to be able to find exactly which posts contain the keywords.
Forgive me if someone else already addressed this (I'm steamed over the Barnes & Noble fraud and didn't read the whole thread ) but here's what's on my wishlist:
TAKE ME TO YOUR LEADER (er, make that PAGE heh) HILIGHTING, TOPICS, SEARCHES Would like to be paroled from having to wade through 35 pages of posts (at 100-per!!) just to find the one lousy occurence of (eg) FRYS in the whole thread. Really I'd like to see a menu of post snips spill out so I can quickly shop the results but . . . I'm greedy. Just get me to the page and I'll take it from there.
SEARCH RESULTS By default sorts on DATE OF LAST POST -- or if that cannot be provided, then please provide the URL string I can use to force it because SCORE is significantly less valuable than (anything) TIME STAMPED.
Nice that this didn't get archived. It's kind of fun to read through and see what suggestions were actually incorporated into the new search function.
Suggestion (in addition to the feedbacks I sent you) -- put search instructions somewhere visible. Perhaps the Search button could take you to an instruction page, and you could set preferences to skip that page once you know what you're doing.
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