We think a Hot Deals Posting Wizard could help in a number of ways:
Promote a uniform format with all desired elements included, improving readability and leading to better search results. Allow posters to do first-level deal categorization. Provide coaching toward quality posts. Discourage reposts (with a checker).
Besides moderating to encourage positive behavior, we think better OPs will reduce the flame-bait and non-constructive critical comments too.
What do YOU think? Vote this topic and comment!
UPDATE: April 24, 2008 See here for summary and plans (moving to design with your input).
Before commenting on this one, can you please explain what fields you would include in this wizard?
jayK
Senior Member - JayK
posted: Apr. 8, 2008 @ 7:48p
IAmStingRay said: Before commenting on this one, can you please explain what fields you would include in this wizard?The community should probably determine which fields make the most sense.
My ideas: - Item Name - Item Mfr - URL - Type (high-level: e.g. technology, food, automotive, home decor, service, etc. with cascading subtypes) - Retailer (autopopulate link to resellerratings.com) - Price (before rebate/PM/etc.) - Rebate amount (yes/no checkbox + amt field + rebate form URL field, allow multiple) - PM amount (yes/no checkbox + amt field + PM retailer name field) - Coupon amount + coupon code (yes/no checkbox + amt field + coupon code field, allow multiple) - Shipping cost - Region (national, regional, state with dropdown menu) - YMMV (yes/no checkbox) - FatCash (auto-populated)
It would be great if a spellchecker feature could somehow be added.
It gets aggravating when people misspell the name of a store or a product such that it becomes impossible to find via search. Should reduce reposting a little bit.
Or, an easier way for the error to be corrected by the community - not restricted to words but also $ calculations, etc. OPs don't always return to their topics to fix errors.
jayK made a good list. I would add, for the region part, if there is a list of states, please make it easy to 'select all' or 'select none' - that way it is quicker to select all but 2-3 states (as is often the case for contests, excluded in NY, FL, and RI, e.g.). A different tool than a regular drop-down where the control key is used to select multiple items would be appreciated, but I don't know what options there are.
Speaking of contests, this type of posting wizard would be VERY good to implement in Contests and Sweeps. Since fewer fields are needed, maybe you could test it there. (e.g. begin date, end date, frequency(daily, monthly, once), etc)
jayK said: My ideas: - Item Name - Item Mfr - URL - Type (high-level: e.g. technology, food, automotive, home decor, service, etc. with cascading subtypes) - Retailer (autopopulate link to resellerratings.com) - Price (before rebate/PM/etc.) - Rebate amount (yes/no checkbox + amt field + rebate form URL field, allow multiple) - PM amount (yes/no checkbox + amt field + PM retailer name field) - Coupon amount + coupon code (yes/no checkbox + amt field + coupon code field, allow multiple) - Shipping cost - Region (national, regional, state with dropdown menu) - YMMV (yes/no checkbox) - FatCash (auto-populated)
Using this type of framework, how do you deal with the hot deals which are not for a specific product (e.g., 20% off coupon for store X, target clearance, etc.)?
jayK
Senior Member - JayK
posted: Apr. 9, 2008 @ 11:22a
IAmStingRay said: Using this type of framework, how do you deal with the hot deals which are not for a specific product (e.g., 20% off coupon for store X, target clearance, etc.)?All fields would be optional. If there's no specific item, leave the item name and mfr blank.
I'm assuming the thread title would be auto-generated based on the results of the posting wizard, something like: <item mfr> <item name> at <retailer> for <price>
TM1
pi๑ata
posted: Apr. 9, 2008 @ 11:56a
Just a random thought here... what good is a wizard if the potential for most of the feilds beings left blank exists? I understand the concept and it appears to be good on paper, but you also lose the individuality of the members by making them use a template. More often than not the members tell the OP to update this infor or that info, what is so horrible about that? Playing devil's advocate does not mean I don't agree with the ideas, I am just trying to see all sides of them, good and bad.
I think the repost checker could be implemented without a posting in a template, right? That seems like a valuable feature.
TM1 said: Just a random thought here... what good is a wizard if the potential for most of the feilds beings left blank exists? I understand the concept and it appears to be good on paper, but you also lose the individuality of the members by making them use a template. More often than not the members tell the OP to update this infor or that info, what is so horrible about that? Playing devil's advocate does not mean I don't agree with the ideas, I am just trying to see all sides of them, good and bad.
I think the repost checker could be implemented without a posting in a template, right? That seems like a valuable feature.
That is why it would be optional.... or that is how I understand it. We don't want to force people to use it, but if we do it right, they will want to use it (better for the entire community). I could be wrong, and i might be corrected by a FW staff member that knows more about it.
TM1 said: ...More often than not the members tell the OP to update this infor or that info, what is so horrible about that? ..."Bad" posts, including those missing information, are frequently the ones leading to harsh comments and red voting. With a template/wizard, we think less experienced posters might learn what's required to make it good. We could also include some notes or guidelines.
MarsdenFubar said: That is why it would be optional...
If that's the case, it seems reasonable to try it out and see if it helps. I'm against making a wizard the only way someone can post to HD, but if it is an optional tool, it would only help. The only decision to make is whether it is the best use of someone's time to create it.
IAmStingRay said: MarsdenFubar said: That is why it would be optional...
If that's the case, it seems reasonable to try it out and see if it helps. I'm against making a wizard the only way someone can post to HD, but if it is an optional tool, it would only help. The only decision to make is whether it is the best use of someone's time to create it.
I think that is the basic idea.
TM1
pi๑ata
posted: Apr. 9, 2008 @ 12:37p
footn200 said: TM1 said: ...More often than not the members tell the OP to update this infor or that info, what is so horrible about that? ..."Bad" posts, including those missing information, are frequently the ones leading to harsh comments and red voting. With a template/wizard, we think less experienced posters might learn what's required to make it good. We could also include some notes or guidelines.
That makes sense. We all know that an established member could post the EXACT same deal as a n00b and the old member will get flooded with green and the n00b will get red and many nasty comments. A wizard will never eliminate all of that, but it might encourage n00bs to post again if the process is less painful.
Promote a uniform format with all desired elements included, improving readability and leading to better search results. That is really needed--great idea. Allow posters to do first-level deal categorization. ? Don't understand ? Provide coaching toward quality posts. Yes. Discourage reposts (with a checker). Yes.
Besides moderating to encourage positive behavior, we think better OPs will reduce the flame-bait and non-constructive critical comments too. I don't really understand this. FW seems to be a great, free and useful service--why do we have to read the kind of junk people wrote about the recent Omaha Steak deal? They should be put in a virtual 'time out!' I'm not sure if you guys just don't have enough moderators (I can udnerstand that), or the rules aren't strict enough, but perhaps things can be altered. i don't blame FW--I blame the posters. THanks!
Gertrude23 said: Promote a uniform format with all desired elements included, improving readability and leading to better search results. That is really needed--great idea. Allow posters to do first-level deal categorization. ? Don't understand ? Provide coaching toward quality posts. Yes. Discourage reposts (with a checker). Yes.
Besides moderating to encourage positive behavior, we think better OPs will reduce the flame-bait and non-constructive critical comments too. I don't really understand this. FW seems to be a great, free and useful service--why do we have to read the kind of junk people wrote about the recent Omaha Steak deal? They should be put in a virtual 'time out!' I'm not sure if you guys just don't have enough moderators (I can udnerstand that), or the rules aren't strict enough, but perhaps things can be altered. i don't blame FW--I blame the posters. THanks!Thank YOU! We are working toward coaching more positive behavior in the forums.
First-level deal categorization refers to the feature in modern (and beta) to customize a hot deals view. Toward that end, we categorize every hot deal by product category, store, manufacturer and deal type. With a wizard, members could take the first shot at that categorization.
Steve
jayK
Senior Member - JayK
posted: Apr. 11, 2008 @ 12:13p
Gertrude23 said: FW seems to be a great, free and useful service--why do we have to read the kind of junk people wrote about the recent Omaha Steak deal?You don't have to read the junk, just set your ratings filter to "poor".
jayK
Senior Member - JayK
posted: Apr. 11, 2008 @ 12:14p
footn200 said: First-level deal categorization refers to the feature in modern (and beta) to customize a hot deals view. Toward that end, we categorize every hot deal by product category, store, manufacturer and deal type. With a wizard, members could take the first shot at that categorization.I'd like to see an easy way for the community to add/modify categorization as well.
bozo007 said: I like the idea. While populating the fields may be optional, it at least forces the OP to put some more thought into the posts.
This is kind of what I have in mind when I think of a template for a Hot Deal post... if it's done right, it'd serve as a checklist even for experienced posters.
I'd also like to think more uniform topic titles would enhance the process of scanning deals.
jray225 (Staff)
Moderator
posted: Apr. 14, 2008 @ 2:06a
Another Idea was to use the fields to auto-populate the title and post, but still leave the title and post field available for edit. So you could still customize your topic however you like, but the fields would be there to give you a basic format/layout.
Dejapooh said: as long as it is optional it might be okay. i dislike a terribly long interrogation though just to post!
Yeah nobody wants a form six miles long just to make a post. Optional and simple would both be critical. Ideally something that'd be convenient/efficient enough that you'd *want* to use it.
jayK
Senior Member - JayK
posted: Apr. 19, 2008 @ 4:01p
Perhaps additional fields could be category-specific. For example, I'm looking for a flash drive, and it would be great to be able to sort threads by capacity (this would be category-specific) and price.
At the bare minimum price should be a required field (with a "n/a" checkbox next to the field) to allow for sorting by price, this would be a huge value-add.
So I'm hearing a lot of great features to include, but some concerns that it not get too long or complicated. Nobody wants a form three pages long.
We plan to implement this feature by the end of the quarter and want your feedback before it gets sent off to design.
It sounds like the basic (optional) fields would be: -manufacturer -item -price -store -coupon code -link
Check boxes for: -price match -ymmv -rebate (FAR/MIR) -B&M
These fields would auto-generate an editable title.
There would be some kind of spell-checker / auto-suggest for stores and manufacturers.
Auto-repost checker...Digg-style? Before you post a new topic, it compares the deal info you entered against existing topics. Lists the top matches for you. If no repost, proceed with posting.
jayK
Senior Member - JayK
posted: Apr. 24, 2008 @ 1:42p
nunaliorte said: These fields would auto-generate an editable title.Would appropriate metadata be added to threads to allow for sorting and filtering?
I think a "rebate amount" field should appear if the rebate box is checked so users can enter the amount of the rebate.
It should also be made clear that the price should be before rebates, and I'd like to see a place to enter shipping costs.
It would also be nice to automatically grab the reseller rating for the retailer.
It sounds like the basic (optional) fields would be:
-manufacturer
-item
-price
-store
-coupon code
-link
Check boxes for:
-price match
-ymmv
-rebate (FAR/MIR)
-B&M
I'm with JayK on the rebate thing... Maybe if Rebate is checked there's a field for the amount or something? If the 'price' field indicates it's before rebate/coupon codes, the title generator would take care of the math:
Or whatever. That's totally not how it'd look, just illustrating.
TM1
pi๑ata
posted: Apr. 25, 2008 @ 6:59a
The only other thing might be a box to incorporate the it is local, regional, etc. Some deals are for a specific state or retailers in a particular region. Some are nation-wide. Make sense? Not sure if it is even important, just thinking of things that come up in titles. I have seen plenty of times when people ask OP to put a correction in title to reflect local deal, etc.
i think that it's about time that all the bad posts were linked into a common thread to demonstrate what a TERRIBLE POST looks like and to point out the way to make good posts.
would you like me to create such a thread? it would be better than the majority of the posts in hot deals, and make things work better.
the terrible posting here at fatwallet is DESTROYING FATWALLET. people are leaving, and i have to say that i am starting to look elsewhere myself.
the QUALITY of a thread has to be the most important, not the least. if a person spends hours here, they should leave with something other than getting a lead on a free coke or some other crap. the blending of everything in hot deals has made it anything but "hot" most of the time.
it really boils down to you and if you want to be at the wheel when fatwallet goes into a steeper downhill degradation or if it can be pulled out of it.
don't be seduced under the false illusion that things just need to be maintained and they keep going. that formula died long ago, and we are in uncharted territory in the business world. it's changing very fast, and those who do not keep up with innovation fall by the wayside.
there is no guarantee that fatwallet will even exist in the coming years of massive financial upheaval with costs and supplies of necessary goods skyrocketing out of reach for most.
"i want to think about it" are the key words in failure today. while thinking, others are changing with the flow and staying above water instead of drowning.
Hoped to have a draft for you to review by end of last week, but it needed some improvements. Our designer is out this week so it'll probably be a little longer before your sneak peek. Thanks for your patience and passion in the meantime.
i just noticed the "animated demo" and watched it.
why don't you have an animated demo for how to post?
having a demo would really fix a lot of huge problems here with all the terrible posts.
you could give helpful ideas to those posting, such as rule #1, what is the location? too many people are posting what amounts to bragging about a deal they got, and then everyone clicks on it only to find bullshit.
making a link is easy enough for an 8 year old, ONCE THEY KNOW HOW TO DO IT. using the other features should be covered as well.
you have the capability of doing it, and them making sure everyone knows about it, especially new members.
if it were up to me, i would have the tutorial and a TEST AFTERWARD to make sure people know what they are doing. i would even make everyone who has been here take the test before they post anything else.
the bottom line is that we need to vastly improve the quality of the posts, and people will be able to spend less time hassling about finding the details for the bad posts and find other deals.
you might even want to create a tutorial to show people how to FIND DEALS TO POST. it seems that many people have a lot of time on their hands and it would be better to have them posting QUALITY posts.
people seem to be too hung up on reposts. just because someone has put up a title such as "Staples Weekly Deals" with a myriad of deals, DOES NOT mean that the deals are good ones. the one or two "hot" deals should be able to be reposted, especially if it is a deal that is being PRE posted days or weeks in advance.
not all of us use the system in which the latest reply on a post 3 months old pops back up. mine only shows the new posts as they come up so i can keep up, but things hidden in one of the many posts which describe multiple deals, can be forgotten easily, especially if they are posted in advance. Again, reposts can be good.
if it's so important to people to get credit for their posts, then there should be some sort of reward for those who put up lots of good quality posts. i remember years ago a person known as "jokersmoker" who was absolutely amazing.
maybe we can also have a feature that shows a persons previous posts. they could allow it or not allow it, but then they could "show off" if they wanted to.
Wow, some great thoughts and ideas in there! And just when I thought you were disposable
One word really stood out that I appreciate: "we"
I look forward to you (and y'all) staying involved as we develop these things. Heaven knows we don't always get it right the first time so we need your continued feedback.
disposable said: ...why don't you have an animated demo for how to post?
having a demo would really fix a lot of huge problems here with all the terrible posts.
you could give helpful ideas to those posting, such as rule #1, what is the location? ...
making a link is easy enough for an 8 year old, ONCE THEY KNOW HOW TO DO IT. using the other features should be covered as well.
you have the capability of doing it, and them making sure everyone knows about it, especially new members.
if it were up to me, i would have the tutorial and a TEST AFTERWARD to make sure people know what they are doing. i would even make everyone who has been here take the test before they post anything else.
the bottom line is that we need to vastly improve the quality of the posts, and people will be able to spend less time hassling about finding the details for the bad posts and find other deals.
you might even want to create a tutorial to show people how to FIND DEALS TO POST. it seems that many people have a lot of time on their hands and it would be better to have them posting QUALITY posts...After further review... I STILL like how you're thinking. We're re-writing our Hot Deals FAQ right now, and we can include a Posting Tutorial as you suggested... and maybe get it somewhere more accessible also. While we definitely hear what you're saying about requiring passing a test before posting, we'd rather coach and inform rather than add barriers to posting. I know what you're saying; just hoping for a less restrictive tactic. Once you (y'all) have reviewed the current FAQ, let us know what specifically we can add to promote higher quality posts. There's certainly a lot of room for improvement!
disposable said: if it's so important to people to get credit for their posts, then there should be some sort of reward for those who put up lots of good quality posts. i remember years ago a person known as "jokersmoker" who was absolutely amazing.
maybe we can also have a feature that shows a persons previous posts. they could allow it or not allow it, but then they could "show off" if they wanted to.These are high on our priority list right now. Any specific suggestions are more than welcome.
please stop with the money giveaways and use money to reward people for their posts.
one idea: have a monthly contest in which the top 3 to 5 posts getting cash rewards. also have a quarterly and annual determination as to the best deals and pay them as well.
i think a budget of $1000.00 per month, $1000.00 per quarter, and $5000.00 annually will bring in so much more revenue from the FatWallet Cash Back that fatwallet keeps that it would easily pay for the motivational fees.
$21,000.00 annually as an advertising cost would wipe out the competition. some may post in multiple locations, but everyone would come here FIRST and with the fatwallet effect, do it then.
again, fatwallet has to think in terms of motivating members to post, there are more than enough armchair quarterbacks here already.
in business, you are either growing or you're shrinking, and that is a hard, cold fact. expansion or contraction, that is the reality, and business is war. the only way you can make money is to take it away from somebody else. right now, sites like sd are taking it from you.
so what do you think fatwallet? do you have the guts to make the tough calls for the future? remember, the only thing you can count on is for everything to change, and fast! things are moving very rapidly. no more planning out the future with any certainty, but sitting on your hands is definitely suicide.
While not the topic of this thread, incentivizing hot deals posts is a Hot Topic (gotta love that autolinking @@). We're working on a formula to identify our most valuable posters and will begin to reward them in creative ways soon.
Regarding the hot deals posting wizard, we had a decent breakthrough last week in terms of the "posting" page itself. One challenge is to offer a helpful template without forcing it or causing upset to folks who post just fine with the current open option. After all, change is stressful. Design is under the gun on another project but we're still hoping for a mock to get community feedback soon. First shot will be pretty basic, to encourage complete posts and titles, and in a sensible order that'll become familiar. With some fields offering auto-completion, we're hoping for better search-ability also. We'll have to wait and see if repost checking and the like make it into early versions.
jayK
Senior Member - JayK
posted: Jul. 1, 2008 @ 11:06a
footn200 said: While not the topic of this thread, incentivizing hot deals posts is a Hot Topic (gotta love that autolinking @@). We're working on a formula to identify our most valuable posters and will begin to reward them in creative ways soon.When putting together an incentivization strategy, don't forget that a lot of the value FW provides lies outside of the HD forum.
jayK said: footn200 said: While not the topic of this thread, incentivizing hot deals posts is a Hot Topic (gotta love that autolinking @@). We're working on a formula to identify our most valuable posters and will begin to reward them in creative ways soon.When putting together an incentivization strategy, don't forget that a lot of the value FW provides lies outside of the HD forum.Point well-taken. I'll PM you for some ideas.
footn200 said: jayK said: footn200 said: While not the topic of this thread, incentivizing hot deals posts is a Hot Topic (gotta love that autolinking @@). We're working on a formula to identify our most valuable posters and will begin to reward them in creative ways soon.When putting together an incentivization strategy, don't forget that a lot of the value FW provides lies outside of the HD forum.Point well-taken. I'll PM you for some ideas.
Why bother posting this? Either PM them to him or if you want feedback from the community, post the ideas to the thread - don't post that you're going to PM him.
jayK
Senior Member - JayK
posted: Jul. 7, 2008 @ 11:59a
IAmStingRay said: Why bother posting this? Either PM them to him or if you want feedback from the community, post the ideas to the thread - don't post that you're going to PM him.That's a good point. This was my reply via PM:
Regarding the comment about value outside HD, I was referring to the suggestion I made a while ago for offering a "reward" (monetary or otherwise) for answering people's questions, similar to Yahoo Answers. I was thinking that it would mostly apply to DD, but Finance and the Computers forum would also benefit. The reward could simply be "points", or a token amount of FatCash donated by FW, or FatCash donated by the person who asked the question, or some combination.
footn200 said: Wow, some great thoughts and ideas in there! And just when I thought you were disposable
One word really stood out that I appreciate: "we"
I look forward to you (and y'all) staying involved as we develop these things. Heaven knows we don't always get it right the first time so we need your continued feedback.
Just had a light bulb moment, T'shirts should have said "Be The WEvolution" or "BE THE WE"
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