I sure hope you bring it back. I was an avid user of this forum. Here 24/7 and got a lot of great info and contributed too. I made wonderful trades with users I still keep in contact with today. I know we could build this site back up to its wonder days again.

TM1 said:tlaxson said:Perhaps buy/sell/trade deserves its own thread for discussion.


Doesn't selling coupons violate the terms printed right on every coupon? I am just asking because there are many ways to "spin the languange" and get around it.

They are not spinning the langauge on eBay though? I don't mean to argue, but I just don't understand if it's illegal then how are they getting away with it?

Beboparoo said:TM1 said:tlaxson said:Perhaps buy/sell/trade deserves its own thread for discussion.


Doesn't selling coupons violate the terms printed right on every coupon? I am just asking because there are many ways to "spin the languange" and get around it.


They are not spinning the langauge on eBay though? I don't mean to argue, but I just don't understand if it's illegal then how are they getting away with it?

They get away with it by referring to it as a delivery and handling fee for sending you the coupons when it is nothing more than selling you the coupons = spinning the language. That doesn make it legal, it just makes it difficult to enforce under the given terms.

I am not sure what we are discussing here, but I am pretty sure I could find someone operating a "coupon location and delivery service" on eBay if I wanted to take a look.

cents-off.com: < look towards bottom >

AUTOMATES FRAUD
New Internet technologies have automated fraud, observed CIC Operations Manager Bud Miller, CPP. The spread of Get Rich Quick Schemes; No Risk Investments; Chain Letters and coupon scams make it almost impossible to use the Internet without someone trying to con you. The growth of the Internet has brought clever con artists, who pitch their snake oil for the cost of a few cents, into the homes of millions of potential victims. Unfortunately, the people who can afford it the least are often the victims of these criminals. This type of fraud threatens the creditability of this developing media.

We are pleased to continue our partnership with The Federal Trade Commission to help educate consumers and entrepreneurs about coupon related Internet scams.

Consumers and potential investors are urged to access our new web site at www.cents-off.com before getting involved with any "Business Opportunity" involving coupons.

Facts About Coupon Fraud

How much fraud is there?
No precise studies are available. However, industry sources estimate that losses due to coupon fraud exceed $500 million annually. The CIC has successfully worked with law enforcement officials on individual coupon fraud cases ranging from a few thousand dollars to more than $87 million.

When does a fraud occur?
A coupon is valid only when presented by a consumer to a retailer in conjunction with a purchase of the brand, size, and quantity of the product specified by the coupon. If submitted in any way other than that detailed by the issuing manufacturer, a misredemption occurs. Misredemptions can constitute a violation of Federal and/or State law.

How are coupons obtained for use in frauds?
They are stolen or otherwise obtained from newspapers that carry coupon inserts; from magazine wholesalers; from newspaper vending machines, and from recycling centers. They also are collected in other ways for example, from members of organizations such as church groups and other charities that are paid to collect and cut the coupons. There are even companies that advertise that they purchase pre-cut coupons. There also have been several cases of coupons being counterfeited.

I have been asked to buy or sell
Coupons as a business opportunity.

What should I do?
This is not a legitimate opportunity.
1. Do not confront the con artist! Your physical well being is more important than any money that may be stolen from you.

2. Save everything! Make sure that you retain any agreements, training materials, invoices, notes, and any other documents or correspondence that you have sent or received from the con artist. If possible, retain the envelopes that were used to send these materials.

Contact the CIC. Our phone number is (703) 684-5307. We can put you in touch with the appropriate law enforcement officials in your area.

Exercise Caution. Since con artists often exchange lists, someone else may obtain your mailing address and attempt to defraud you.

Just say "No." There are no legitimate business opportunities in selling coupons. You may inadvertently get involved in illegal criminal activities. Be polite and do not get confrontational. Your safety should be your number one concern.

Do not pay an advance fee. Some con artists are so brazen they charge their victims a fee supposedly for instructions on how to make money by selling coupons. This is just another way to get your money.

Consumer and Corporate Protection
A Corporate Responsibility

Manufacturers should recognize their corporate responsibility to fight coupon fraud. Many such manufacturers work through the CIC with Federal, State, and local law enforcement agencies to combat this problem. These proactive manufacturers understand the vital need to protect consumers, as well as their own corporations and shareholders, from the illegal activities of scam artists and criminal organizations.

Coupon fraud is an industry-wide challenge that is best addressed by proactive companies dedicated to protecting both their customers and their own bottom lines.

The Federal Trade Commission’s Bureau of Consumer Protection can provide consumers with valuable information about these scams. The FTC can be reached at (202) 326-3650 or at www.ftc.gov.

Facts About-
The Coupon Information Corporation
115 South St. Asaph Street, Suite D
Alexandria, Virginia 22314
(703) 684-5307

The Coupon Information Corporation (CIC), a not-for-profit association of consumer product manufacturers that issue coupons, was formed in 1985 to encourage integrity in the coupon redemption process and to advocate and support law enforcement investigations of suspected coupon misredemption.

According to estimates of industry analysts, manufacturers that issue coupons suffer losses in excess of $500 million annually due to coupon fraud.

The CIC operates the Coupon Information Center in Alexandria, Virginia.

The Center serves as a central point from which law enforcement officials can obtain information from manufacturers. Under guidelines established by the manufacturers, the Center's activities with regard to its law enforcement liaison functions are limited to the computerized processing of data and communications with public officials.

Since the Center began operations in late 1986, it has encouraged and/or supported coupon misredemption inquiries in scores of States and localities. More than 300 individuals and organizations have been successfully prosecuted for coupon fraud in actions in which the CIC has provided supporting information. These individuals were responsible for more than $250 million in fraudulent coupon submissions.

As of this date, every individual prosecuted for coupon fraud as a result of CIC efforts has pleaded guilty or been convicted; not one has been acquitted.

You can contact Bud Miller, CPP at (703) 684-5307 for more information.

TM1 said:
As of this date, every individual prosecuted for coupon fraud as a result of CIC efforts has pleaded guilty or been convicted; not one has been acquitted.

You can contact Bud Miller, CPP at (703) 684-5307 for more information.


I think that is why Fatwallet has lawyers, I have never seen any of Bud Miller's threats come true. It never looks like he really goes after housewives in Baltimore.

If people want it, I'm just saying I don't think it is that big of a deal. Bud Miller's site is cents-off.com, but centsoff.com is a group that sells coupons (they don't hide the fact). eBay seems to not have a policy against it, and those do not even bother trying to skirt the rules with their wording on their auctions.


I know the arguments for and against, but with a new GC then maybe the issue should be looked at again. Where does cents-off list off "WHAT is coupon fraud?". This is a pretty good article on a bigger issue then Suzy Q selling a couple of enfamil coupons to Margie...

http://promomagazine.com/mag/marketing_cleans_away_dirt/

The Breen sting revealed three primary forms of coupon fraud:


Owners of single-store locations were submitting coupons under multiple business names in an effort to confuse anyone trying to track misredemption.

Stores were submitting coupons under true names, but for more coupons than they had proof of purchase, or in the case of Breen, redeeming coupons for product not stocked.

Coupon rings were assembling inventories of coupons from fund-raising groups or dishonest printers, then selling these at 50% of face value to retailers. Store owners then redeemed the batches as coupons that had gone through their own tills.

PromoMagazine Link

Beboparoo said:PromoMagazine Link

sadly, that article is more than 2 years old. I don't care on a personal level, it is isn't my site, I am just showing reasons why FW might not want to go down the selling road.

MarsdenFubar said:I am totally fine dropping the product categories if you all don't see a need for them. We can work out something like bebop suggested. Store break down would be a must (CVS and the like included), along with manufacturers. I would definitely use product categories. I don't see why we can't keep both product and store categories...if you find store categories more useful, you can just ignore the product categories.

For example, I buy Tropicana OJ and soy milk every week. Before I go shopping, I'd like to be able to check the Beverages -> Juice -> Orange Juice and Beverages -> Milk -> Soy Milk categories. The deals in those categories could determine whether I shop at Safeway, Lucky, Costco, or Target that week.