I don't suppose that anyone here has any experience buying a car through any of the diplomatic programs offered by the various manufacturers. If so, I would like to ask you a few questions (Offline would be fine since this would likely apply to a pretty small number of forum members.)
VicVinegar said: ^^^Sounds find to me. I agree, I think you'll do better straight negotiating on a Ram than taking the 1% below invoice.
Regarding your previous post, I'm guessing you won't be able to do much better out west than you will in VA, MD, DE, NJ. If you lived in the middle of nowhere and had few other options than to travel, then maybe, but if you have access to a major metro area's glut of dealerships, you should do alright.
I'm actually in the Detroit area. Rams are built about three miles from my house, so it seems silly to travel a long distance to buy one, but that kinda is the fatwallet way.
I am wondering if getting out of the manufacturer's back yard would help. I'm thinking a lot of the sales here are to their own employees, so somewhat of a captive market. Dealers don't have to work hard to sell a Ram pickup to a Chrysler employee since the price is fixed, and they are not going to buy a Ford or GM truck they have to park in the back of the lot at work.
Tom9999 said: VicVinegar said: ^^^Sounds find to me. I agree, I think you'll do better straight negotiating on a Ram than taking the 1% below invoice.
Regarding your previous post, I'm guessing you won't be able to do much better out west than you will in VA, MD, DE, NJ. If you lived in the middle of nowhere and had few other options than to travel, then maybe, but if you have access to a major metro area's glut of dealerships, you should do alright.
I'm actually in the Detroit area. Rams are built about three miles from my house, so it seems silly to travel a long distance to buy one, but that kinda is the fatwallet way.
I am wondering if getting out of the manufacturer's back yard would help. I'm thinking a lot of the sales here are to their own employees, so somewhat of a captive market. Dealers don't have to work hard to sell a Ram pickup to a Chrysler employee since the price is fixed, and they are not going to buy a Ford or GM truck they have to park in the back of the lot at work.Also Detroit area. My friend drove to Ohio to buy a car ...
Another thought - which I might have already read here. Chrysler is offering a $2000 trade in allowance for a competitive vehicle. I don't see this as a true $2000 since they would probably low-ball the trade in value.
Say I negotiate a price without a trade in, then roll up in a 1980 Ford/GM Beater and say I want to trade it in. Would the dealer HAVE to give me the trade in allowance? Looks like getting a title, plates and insurance for a month would be about $75 in Michigan. The only rule I see on the program is that it has to be titled to me for 30 days to qualify. If I can get a $200 non-Chrysler beater, I net $1700.
Tom9999 said: Another thought - which I might have already read here. Chrysler is offering a $2000 trade in allowance for a competitive vehicle. I don't see this as a true $2000 since they would probably low-ball the trade in value.
Say I negotiate a price without a trade in, then roll up in a 1980 Ford/GM Beater and say I want to trade it in. Would the dealer HAVE to give me the trade in allowance? Looks like getting a title, plates and insurance for a month would be about $75 in Michigan. The only rule I see on the program is that it has to be titled to me for 30 days to qualify. If I can get a $200 non-Chrysler beater, I net $1700.
There aren't any $200 cars that don't need to be towed in. Factor the towing in to the cost.
I'm actually in the Detroit area. Rams are built about three miles from my house, so it seems silly to travel a long distance to buy one, but that kinda is the fatwallet way.
I am wondering if getting out of the manufacturer's back yard would help. I'm thinking a lot of the sales here are to their own employees, so somewhat of a captive market. Dealers don't have to work hard to sell a Ram pickup to a Chrysler employee since the price is fixed, and they are not going to buy a Ford or GM truck they have to park in the back of the lot at work.
And the UAW averages the delivery fee so you pay $850 for that truck to be delivered 4 miles while the guy in CA pays the same $850. If I spend a day driving and picking it up and save $1000 my time is $125/hr on an 8 hour day. That is the FWF way.
When I was shopping around for a new car, I had good luck with truecar.com. No one could beat the price quoted from a truecar dealer including surrounding states even though the dealers said they had a "price match" policy. I had also checked costco, edmunds, etc.
First hurdle passed in getting an instant pre-approval from Penfed. Blank check is in the mail.
I also filled out the info for the PenFed car buying service - figured it couldn't hurt. Got phone calls from both dealers they referred me to within minutes.
I stopped by my closest dealer to try to get a test drive, but both of the trucks they had that were close to my specs were sold. He did tell me there is a $2000 rebate for a competitive trade and $1000 for any trade (even Chrysler), and they stack - so basically $3000 rebate for trading my car in. I need to get some bondo repaired under warranty, so it will be in the collision shop next week to get fixed up before I worry about appraisals.
Does anyone know if a trade in HAS to be used to reduce the cost of the new car? Penfed approved me for $38K at 1.74%. The truck I want will probably be about $33K and my trade is worth say, $13K. I would rather throw that $13K against my mortgage at 5.625% rather than reduce the auto loan at $1.74%. Having them give me the $3000 rebate and cut me a check for $13K would be best.
Few questions for you folks from a complete car-buying greenhorn. I was planning on getting a new Hyundai end of June (similar attack plan as Tom9999, email carpet bomb with PenFed pre-approval in hand), but there's an extra $500 rebate I could get if I waited until July. The separate $500 loyalty rebate that I'm eligible for is set to expire the first of July, but I'm guessing that's just marketing and there'll be a new one immediately afterwards (?) Otherwise, as far as I can tell, waiting to grab the extra $500 means missing the end of the quarter (not sure how much that matters), the possibility that PenFed's rate changes, and not having the new car for an extra month (not a big deal). I'm on the fence about pulling the trigger vs waiting -- what do people think?
Many rebates expire monthly. Chrysler's apparently expire the first Tuesday of the month. It makes sense from the manufacturers view since they can adjust prices based on the market. The rebates on the truck I am looking at increased by $500 in June vs. May, but expire (and will get reinstated at some level) on July 2.
How do you know a new rebate is being offered next month? That is usually a secret until they are announced. They don't want people delaying purchases waiting for bigger rebates.
I would expect the loyalty rebate to stick around. Those are usually long term things. For vehicle specific rebates, you can look at inventory on the lots on the internet. If there is a ton of it they will increase rebates to move it. If not much, they may lower. The new model year could play into it. If the 2014 is coming out soon, they may bump rebates on 2013s to clear the lots.
Also visit a dealer to figure out exactly what rebates you are eligible for. Yesterday I found out I can get a $3000 trade allowance. I knew there was a competitive trade rebate of $2000, but also an any vehicle trade rebate of $1000, and they stack. (Still have to make sure they don't lowball a trade by $3000) There was also a $500 supplier rebate I didn't know about and couldn't find on any of the websites. There was an additional $500 that I might qualify for but even the sales guy didn't understand the exact criteria.
Since I signed up for the Penfed auto buying program when I got the loan, I am going to visit those two dealers next week to lock down the rebate situation. I figure I will then add that information to my carpet bomb e-mail to prompt dealers to look at everything. The car buying program looks like a good start. They guaranteed $7000 off a sticker of $41,300. That didn't include the $3000 trade allowance and at least one of the $500 rebates. Looks like invoice minus 1-2% from my quick calculation.
And a question on the Penfed car buying service...
Am I limited to the two local dealers they pointed me to? Is there any advantage to adding "I am a member of the Penfed Car Buying service" to my carpet bomb e-mail?
Tom9999 said: Many rebates expire monthly. Chrysler's apparently expire the first Tuesday of the month. It makes sense from the manufacturers view since they can adjust prices based on the market. The rebates on the truck I am looking at increased by $500 in June vs. May, but expire (and will get reinstated at some level) on July 2.
How do you know a new rebate is being offered next month? That is usually a secret until they are announced. They don't want people delaying purchases waiting for bigger rebates.
I would expect the loyalty rebate to stick around. Those are usually long term things. For vehicle specific rebates, you can look at inventory on the lots on the internet. If there is a ton of it they will increase rebates to move it. If not much, they may lower. The new model year could play into it. If the 2014 is coming out soon, they may bump rebates on 2013s to clear the lots.
Also visit a dealer to figure out exactly what rebates you are eligible for. Yesterday I found out I can get a $3000 trade allowance. I knew there was a competitive trade rebate of $2000, but also an any vehicle trade rebate of $1000, and they stack. (Still have to make sure they don't lowball a trade by $3000) There was also a $500 supplier rebate I didn't know about and couldn't find on any of the websites. There was an additional $500 that I might qualify for but even the sales guy didn't understand the exact criteria.
The loyalty rebate is the only one that I care about that's listed as expiring on 7/1, and as far as I can tell that rebate has existed for about forever, so I assume it'll come right back. I'm definitely planning on visiting a local dealer to make sure I'm eligible for everything I think I am (and see if there are any things I'm not aware of).
Tom9999 said: I would rather throw that $13K against my mortgage at 5.625% rather than reduce the auto loan at $1.74%.
This is off topic, but you *really* should look into refinancing. While current rates have climbed a bit, they should still be way under what you are currently paying!
I'd also leave "I am a member of the Penfed Car Buying service" out of your email - IMHO, it would just confuse things for dealers that aren't getting leads from Penfed.
Back to the e-mail strategy... The deals PenFed sent me are for at least $1000 off of invoice - about 2.5% below - which looks pretty good. That is before all rebates. I am going to meet at least one of the two before I send the e-mail to firm that up against an actual vehicle, but still stall on the buy. There are plenty in the area if I lose the first one to someone else.
Is it worth putting in the e-mail something along the lines of:
I will only consider deals that are at least 3% below factory invoice before all rebates and incentives. If you can beat this offer, please submit your one-time, best offer along with the vehicle details for consideration.
I'm thinking it will weed out the dealers that have no intention of making a good deal and prevent either of us from wasting time. On the other hand, it might make them target that 3% instead of 6 or 8%. Thoughts?
Tom9999 said: Back to the e-mail strategy... The deals PenFed sent me are for at least $1000 off of invoice - about 2.5% below - which looks pretty good. That is before all rebates. I am going to meet at least one of the two before I send the e-mail to firm that up against an actual vehicle, but still stall on the buy. There are plenty in the area if I lose the first one to someone else.
Is it worth putting in the e-mail something along the lines of:
I will only consider deals that are at least 3% below factory invoice before all rebates and incentives. If you can beat this offer, please submit your one-time, best offer along with the vehicle details for consideration.
I'm thinking it will weed out the dealers that have no intention of making a good deal and prevent either of us from wasting time. On the other hand, it might make them target that 3% instead of 6 or 8%. Thoughts?
Seems like you are making it more complicated than it needs to be. Lead with the price you want to pay, for the OTD/on the road price.
Figure out the true cost of the car from Edmunds. Dealer invoice - incentives - holdback + destination + state tax + your tags/registration fees.
I start with the dealerships I am least likely to purchase from (furthest away usually) and email and ask for their best on the road price. I do this with 5-10 dealerships I am at least 75% certain I'll never buy from. Also, keep in mind it's June 18th. You are way better off waiting another week as not only is it the end of the month, but the end of a quarter. Dealerships are going to be more likely to sell for a loss to hit monthly or quarterly quotas/targets and you should find better deals across all dealerships.
Once they respond, if they are above your target OTD price, ask if they can get you to your target price. Chances are at least 1 or 2 of 10 will, with no shenanigans involved.
Once you have a dealership willing to honor your target price, and they've put it in email, then you can start searching for counters. Start with the dealerships you are unlikely to buy from. Then, if you are finding dealers with a good reputation are able to beat your target price, there is probably a good chance there's a hidden incentive you're not aware of.
At this point, figure out your updated OTD price based on your interactions with the dealerships you're unlikely to buy from. Don't worry about % off anything. Figure out what the market is for your vehicle (it may be higher or lower than where you want to be). At this point, email the dealer you'd like to buy from, and ask them if they can meet or beat the most serious offer you have from a dealership you aren't likely to buy from.
Once you have the best offer from the dealership you want to buy from, then make a decision.
I'm getting ready to send emails out for a purchase at the end of the month. When looking for the internet/fleet sales email, I have noticed that some dealers don't have a person that handles this. Should I just email the sales manager instead or pick a random sales person?
Using any kind of "request feedback" or "get your internet price" form from the dealer webpage seems to generate an automatic e-mail reply from the internet sales manager that will include their e-mail address - at least with Ford and Chrysler. I think I am just going to copy and paste my narrative into those web forms if I don't already have a human's e-mail.
Be sure to set up a special e-mail just for this project. I am also using a Google Voice phone number that I have set to go straight to voicemail.
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