cheapsaket said: I have some questions regarding leases.
I have read in many places to negotiate the price of the car as if one is buying and then at the end, tell them that you want to lease it. That way one has a low capitalized cost for the vehicle. Has anyone been able to do this?
Also I read about trying to get Multiple Security Deposits to lower the rates and the monthly payment. Most of the leases I see advertised have zero security deposit but a down payment.
Any advice would be appreciated. Yes I do this all the time on the BMW's we buy. I am open up front though that I will lease the car because otherwise there are too many moving parts. What if you agree on the price but they markup the lease factor afterwards with the full allowed amount (easily another 1-2k out of the door for the term of the lease) or give you a a higher acquisition fee or spring with a ridiculous doc fee at the end.
What I do (works for BMW and if you go to the forums most people do the same for this type of car) is to go in and tell them I am looking to lease this type of car. Then I ask them if they agree on an 'invoice plus' deal and I give them the 'plus' I am willing to pay (after doing some research). I also ask for the money factor and the acquisition fee to see if they mark it up. Also I ask for any and all other fees and tell them 0 down (except first payment and 'real' title tax etc.). They can then run a quick lease calculation for you (I tend to not throw MSD's into the mix here yet since a lot of client advisers (fancy word for sales guy at BMW) don't understand them well and try to screw you over telling you to rather make a down payment). I also make sure I get all the rebates that are know (holiday credit, drive off allowance etc.), ok, at least the ones I can research on the various forums.
Before doing this I have all the numbers already plugged into my lease spreadsheet and have the expected number already. If there is a difference I will dig until I fully understand it.
There is always a chance you agree and the finance guy at the end tries to put one over you. Make it up front clear that this is it and you will not buy any tire protection, super duper leather protection or what else they try to sell you. Or if you want them (e.g. wheel protection, I self insure though) those can be bought cheaper from online dealers or you can also negotiate them quite well.
In summary make sure before you even put foot into a dealership or negotiate with them that you know ahead of time what you are supposed to pay to get a good deal. Also watch because things can change from month to month and there are certain times of the year where better leasing deals can be had. Leasing just has a lot more moving parts and therefore more profit opportunities for the dealer.
(I did not go into lease vs buy, obviously for strictly monetary considerations +1 on getting a Crown Vic)
Last week, I purchased a 2014 MDX for my wife. I sent out emails asking for bids 5 years ago when we purchased our last car, but I found an even better deal this time by finding other buyers online and combining our purchasing power when negotiating with dealers.
My research helped me determine the best deals that others were getting (Edmunds forums were most helpful, also used acurazine and mdxers), and I entered my buying phase with a Target price based on that research. I sent out my emails and monitored the responses. However, there were also buyers on the forums interested in pooling their efforts to negotiate a killer deal. The Target numbers one guy was throwing out seemed crazy, but it turned out he knew what he was talking about. Six buyers ended up joining our group, and this guy took the lead in negotiating the purchase of six MDXs. He contacted the highest volume dealers in the area--DC and VA, for him--and got a crazy good price for us all.
MSRP for the MDX equipped with Tech package is $49,460 including destination. Dealer invoice for that car, also including destination, is $45,824. We got our cars for $44,275, including destination, all dealer fees, and state title & license. The only thing we paid on top of that was state sales tax. We bought outside of DC, and had buyers in the group travel from VA, PA, NJ, and CT to get their cars. (I took the train, DC metro, and a cab to pick up my car, and it was well worth it.) This was $1800 under my Target price, based on my research.
My suggestion, if you can, is to combine with other purchasers, and negotiate hard. The fact that we bought our cars at the end of the year certainly helped us, but I'm not sure how much; I think the multiple sales were far more important to the dealer.
I also saved another $3000 or so b/c my wife wanted all the dealer installed accessories, and I convinced her to let me order them online (33% off MSRP) and install them myself, but that's another story. Good luck!
(Ed.: Sorry about the Target.com links in the post, not sure how to remove them.)
that's a great story. where did u meet the other buyers? did everyone purchase the tech package or similar packages? seems it would be harder to negotiate different packages...off topic, when we looked a couple of years ago, read about problems with tech package and didn't seem worth the price.
The other buyers were people posting on the forums, we all came together around the purchase timing, geographic location, and the idea of negotiating as a group. All were located in the East and indicated privately that they'd hold up their end of the deal (by actually buying the car, rather than using the negotiated price as leverage with other dealers). Four buyers purchased the Tech, and two purchased the base. One wanted to get a Tech + Entertainment, but those are selling fast enough (and stock is low enough) that the dealer wouldn't go there, so he dropped down to the Tech. Agreed that negotiating the different packages could make it harder, but the dealer was willing to work with us on both base and Tech models. YMMV.
RE: your off-topic concern about the Tech package, it's a no-brainer (for me at least) with the upgrades that Acura rolled out for the next generation MDX with the 2014 model year. After 1500 holiday travel miles, the car is great; the only issue is that Acura's handsfree text & email reply function doesn't sync with Apple iOS7/iPhone 5. That is obviously a very small problem.
Wanted thank everyone for their input, here is what I did. I am on the East Coast of Florida (Central Florida) so I wanted to set a radius to capture some of the larger markets. I choose 150 miles from my zip code. I used dealerrater.com to create the list of Toyota dealers within 150 miles. They don't offer a 150 mile increment but it you choose a mileage other than the standard you can change the mileage in the URL (address bar). This gave me 40 which is too many so I set dealerships with at least a average rating of 4 out of 5. I created a excel sheet with these 30 dealerships with the following columns for sorting: # (chronological rating order from dealerrater.com), Dealership (name of dealership), Website (hyperlinked), Location (city and state), Distance (from me), Date/Time (email request sent). Most the dealerships do not offer a direct email address to make initial contact they use web forms instead. I downloaded RoboForms to make the web forms as painless as possible. It took 1 hour to configure RoboForms and message all 30 dealerships. The text below is what I included with the initial contact. Me said: Internet Sales,
I am going to purchase a new 2013 Toyota Prius Two. This will be a cash sale with no trade in. I expect to finalize the deal and to pick up the vehicle on or before Saturday, January 25th.
My specifications: New 2013 Toyota Prius Two Exterior Color - Any expect Sea Glass Pearl Accessories - Minimal, preferably none
I am sending this request to dealerships in a 150-mile radius. Please provide your best out-the-door price for a vehicle that will be on your lot within my time frame. My zip code is *my zip code* for pricing calculations.
Please provide me with your direct phone number so I may call you if your out-the-door price is competitive. I will not take telephone bids, please provide them via email only.
*my name* I created a disposbe gmail account just for this process. I created a sub folder for each dealer to organize their emails. I also create a disposable phone number for this purpose, some of the dealers web forms required a phone number. The disposable phone number was set to go straight to voice mail. About half the dealers replied via email with a price the other half called. I listen to the first few messages and they were bs tactics to get you into a sales pitch on the phone, I never listen to any more after the first few. I never called any dealerships except the one that won my business. All dealerships that provided a real bid I emailed thanking them for their business and they I was proceeding with the low dealer. I had three that were low and within $100 of each other. One of the low dealers that wasn't selected emailed me back asking how he was not lowest. I told him that he and two other were within $100 of each other, he proceeded to try to beat them out how ever possible. The dealer I selected was prompt, courteous and never tried to force a telephone call. For $100 I wanted to deal with a business minded person not a at all cost sales person. He was not giving up so I stopped responding to his emails. The dealership I selected handled everything via email and phone. I went and met up last night and in less than an hour was out the door.
Everyone comparison shops by email these days so what is the unique essence of the OP's method? It seems to be that one should be very explicit about the vehicle one is looking for, as well as all available incentives, and to spell those out in the first email (this conveys that the purchaser is informed and won't easily be yanked around); and also to provide a tight and firm deadline as well that happens to be when the dealer needs to make a deal (ie, end of month or quarter). These factors seem to tip the playing field firmly in your favor by creating urgency on the dealer's part, rather than yours. Is that it?
1. I am busy. I've done negotiations inside the dealer, but if I've got to be in the mood. I will say you can likely have more negotiation power if you do this right b/c you have a human connection (albeit possibly a short one) and aren't someone the person can't see nor imagine. I did a negotiation for my dad for a sticker price BMW 328 for 43k and got it for 38,500. 2. Email is too easy to dismiss someone as just fishing around. Sure you can say you contacted X dealers and got X price, but again they can't see nor hear you so they can dismiss you quicker b/c again less emotional connection. 3. I think phone is a good medium. It allows you to actually talk to someone, but for the people that don't like confrontation, allow you to be more assertive w/o you being scared and then backing off and not sticking to your guns. The main tactic of mine is time restraint. I always tell my friends (usually girls b/c they suck at this) to find the exact car and get their card and tell them they are just driving to see if they like this car or not. I do this too so car people don't bother me too much. Then I tell them to get best price when they leave. This gives me a starting point and tells me how negotiable it is. Then I tell them to email them and tell them I am calling at X time. I like to pick a time when I am free or when it is dead in the middle of the day so they are more willing to deal. Then I tell them I have 15 mins b/c I am on lunch break, going to the gym, whatever reason I want. I tell them I have called multiple dealers including outside the city b/c I am from there and visit there a lot and can buy the car there, but prefer to do it here for obvious reasons. I tell them if the price is right, I will buy rt now with 500 CC deposit and come over there later to pay for it. If they balk, I say OK and will call the next dealer. Easy as that.
Confidence is relayed through the phone even if they can't see you. I man up and act more jerky and talk pretty forcefully and will cut them off sometimes. Same tactics they use to you. I'm a car negotiation ninja.
BTW I personally just bought for myself a used 2000 Audi S4 with K04 turbos (and believe it or not, 60k worth of maintenance and upgrades/modifications from 1 single owner) making 450 HP. I negotiated this, but not too much. Saved 400 talking for 5 mins. This is a specific car to get and there's really no real true pricing on it. TMV private party is 6k for stock non-modified car. Ad is 11,900. I pay 11,500. 820 HP in my garage from 2 cars! How about every hundred dollars you save me over the trueCar Target price, I'll split 50:50 with you?
hoodrep said: Are the incentives already included in the Dealer Invoice Price, or the FMV/TMV prices provided by Edmunds or TrueCar?
Or are the incentives separately calculated? The research that I purchased from fightingchance.com states that there are many things included in the invoice price including incentives but dealers don't have to tell you about them. we used to be able to look up dealer cost online but that is no longer available on the web. We can find MSRP and Invoice pricing online via separate sites.
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