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cheapsaket said:   I have some questions regarding leases.

I have read in many places to negotiate the price of the car as if one is buying and then at the end, tell them that you want to lease it. That way one has a low capitalized cost for the vehicle.
Has anyone been able to do this?

Also I read about trying to get Multiple Security Deposits to lower the rates and the monthly payment. Most of the leases I see advertised have zero security deposit but a down payment.

Any advice would be appreciated.

  Yes I do this all the time on the BMW's we buy. I am open up front though that I will lease the car because otherwise there are too many moving parts. What if you agree on the price but they markup the lease factor afterwards with the full allowed amount (easily another 1-2k out of the door for the term of the lease) or give you a a higher acquisition fee or spring with a ridiculous doc fee at the end.

What I do (works for BMW and if you go to the forums most people do the same for this type of car) is to go in and tell them I am looking to lease this type of car. Then I ask them if they agree on an 'invoice plus' deal and I give them the 'plus' I am willing to pay (after doing some research). I also ask for the money factor and the acquisition fee to see if they mark it up. Also I ask for any and all other fees and tell them 0 down (except first payment and 'real' title tax etc.). They can then run a quick lease calculation for you (I tend to not throw MSD's into the mix here yet since a lot of client advisers (fancy word for sales guy at BMW) don't understand them well and try to screw you over telling you to rather make a down payment). I also make sure I get all the rebates that are know (holiday credit, drive off allowance etc.), ok, at least the ones I can research on the various forums.

Before doing this I have all the numbers already plugged into my lease spreadsheet and have the expected number already. If there is a difference I will dig until I fully understand it.

There is always a chance you agree and the finance guy at the end tries to put one over you. Make it up front clear that this is it and you will not buy any tire protection, super duper leather protection or what else they try to sell you. Or if you want them (e.g. wheel protection, I self insure though) those can be bought cheaper from online dealers or you can also negotiate them quite well. 

In summary make sure before you even put foot into a dealership or negotiate with them that you know ahead of time what you are supposed to pay to get a good deal. Also watch because things can change from month to month and there are certain times of the year where better leasing deals can be had. Leasing just has a lot more moving parts and therefore more profit opportunities for the dealer.

(I did not go into lease vs buy, obviously for strictly monetary considerations +1 on getting a Crown Vic)

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chunkalunk said:   for those that have successfully emailed internet managers, would love to see your email template...just to get a sense of the tone and wording.
  
There are plenty of examples in this thread.

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Just got a new Ford Truck. They filled up the gas tank, which cost over $150 (36 gallons). They said its standard procedure with Fords. They gave me a bigger discount than Truecar showed too.

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Last week, I purchased a 2014 MDX for my wife.  I sent out emails asking for bids 5 years ago when we purchased our last car, but I found an even better deal this time by finding other buyers online and combining our purchasing power when negotiating with dealers.

My research helped me determine the best deals that others were getting (Edmunds forums were most helpful, also used acurazine and mdxers), and I entered my buying phase with a Target price based on that research.  I sent out my emails and monitored the responses.  However, there were also buyers on the forums interested in pooling their efforts to negotiate a killer deal.  The Target numbers one guy was throwing out seemed crazy, but it turned out he knew what he was talking about.  Six buyers ended up joining our group, and this guy took the lead in negotiating the purchase of six MDXs.  He contacted the highest volume dealers in the area--DC and VA, for him--and got a crazy good price for us all. 

MSRP for the MDX equipped with Tech package is $49,460 including destination.  Dealer invoice for that car, also including destination, is $45,824.  We got our cars for $44,275, including destination, all dealer fees, and state title & license.  The only thing we paid on top of that was state sales tax.  We bought outside of DC, and had buyers in the group travel from VA, PA, NJ, and CT to get their cars.  (I took the train, DC metro, and a cab to pick up my car, and it was well worth it.)  This was $1800 under my Target price, based on my research.

My suggestion, if you can, is to combine with other purchasers, and negotiate hard.  The fact that we bought our cars at the end of the year certainly helped us, but I'm not sure how much; I think the multiple sales were far more important to the dealer.

I also saved another $3000 or so b/c my wife wanted all the dealer installed accessories, and I convinced her to let me order them online (33% off MSRP) and install them myself, but that's another story.  Good luck!

(Ed.:  Sorry about the Target.com links in the post, not sure how to remove them.)

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that's a great story. where did u meet the other buyers? did everyone purchase the tech package or similar packages? seems it would be harder to negotiate different packages...off topic, when we looked a couple of years ago, read about problems with tech package and didn't seem worth the price.

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The other buyers were people posting on the forums, we all came together around the purchase timing, geographic location, and the idea of negotiating as a group.  All were located in the East and indicated privately that they'd hold up their end of the deal (by actually buying the car, rather than using the negotiated price as leverage with other dealers).  Four buyers purchased the Tech, and two purchased the base.  One wanted to get a Tech + Entertainment, but those are selling fast enough (and stock is low enough) that the dealer wouldn't go there, so he dropped down to the Tech.  Agreed that negotiating the different packages could make it harder, but the dealer was willing to work with us on both base and Tech models.  YMMV.

RE:  your off-topic concern about the Tech package, it's a no-brainer (for me at least) with the upgrades that Acura rolled out for the next generation MDX with the 2014 model year.  After 1500 holiday travel miles, the car is great; the only issue is that Acura's handsfree text & email reply function doesn't sync with Apple iOS7/iPhone 5.  That is obviously a very small problem.

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Wanted thank everyone for their input, here is what I did. I am on the East Coast of Florida (Central Florida) so I wanted to set a radius to capture some of the larger markets. I choose 150 miles from my zip code. I used dealerrater.com to create the list of Toyota dealers within 150 miles. They don't offer a 150 mile increment but it you choose a mileage other than the standard you can change the mileage in the URL (address bar). This gave me 40 which is too many so I set dealerships with at least a average rating of 4 out of 5. I created a excel sheet with these 30 dealerships with the following columns for sorting: # (chronological rating order from dealerrater.com), Dealership (name of dealership), Website (hyperlinked), Location (city and state), Distance (from me), Date/Time (email request sent). Most the dealerships do not offer a direct email address to make initial contact they use web forms instead. I downloaded RoboForms to make the web forms as painless as possible. It took 1 hour to configure RoboForms and message all 30 dealerships. The text below is what I included with the initial contact.
Me said: Internet Sales,

I am going to purchase a new 2013 Toyota Prius Two. This will be a cash sale with no trade in. I expect to finalize the deal and to pick up the vehicle on or before Saturday, January 25th.

My specifications:
New 2013 Toyota Prius Two
Exterior Color - Any expect Sea Glass Pearl
Accessories - Minimal, preferably none

I am sending this request to dealerships in a 150-mile radius. Please provide your best out-the-door price for a vehicle that will be on your lot within my time frame. My zip code is *my zip code* for pricing calculations.

Please provide me with your direct phone number so I may call you if your out-the-door price is competitive. I will not take telephone bids, please provide them via email only.

Thank you,

*my name*

I created a disposbe gmail account just for this process. I created a sub folder for each dealer to organize their emails. I also create a disposable phone number for this purpose, some of the dealers web forms required a phone number. The disposable phone number was set to go straight to voice mail. About half the dealers replied via email with a price the other half called. I listen to the first few messages and they were bs tactics to get you into a sales pitch on the phone, I never listen to any more after the first few. I never called any dealerships except the one that won my business. All dealerships that provided a real bid I emailed thanking them for their business and they I was proceeding with the low dealer. I had three that were low and within $100 of each other. One of the low dealers that wasn't selected emailed me back asking how he was not lowest. I told him that he and two other were within $100 of each other, he proceeded to try to beat them out how ever possible. The dealer I selected was prompt, courteous and never tried to force a telephone call. For $100 I wanted to deal with a business minded person not a at all cost sales person. He was not giving up so I stopped responding to his emails. The dealership I selected handled everything via email and phone. I went and met up last night and in less than an hour was out the door.

I got my financing through Alliant Credit Union at 1.49% for 72 months: http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1328633/ 

The VoIP service I use to setup a temp number is anveo.com. They offer 5 day truely disposable number but I bought a monthly number ($1 month, 3 month minimum).

I purchased a vehicle pricing report from fightingchance.com.

I test drove the car at local dealership and offered them $23k OTD prior to soliciting the other dealers.

2013 Prius Two right under $23k OTD.

*They also included the factory carpeted mats, $299 retail on their paperwork, $100 on eBay.

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Someone PMed me question. I wanted to answer it in the thread for everyone's benefit.

Q: Did you have a relationship with Alliant prior to getting the loan?
A: No.

Q: I only see 60 month options on their website, did they make the 72 month offer after you applied?
A: This shows up to 72: http://www.alliantcreditunion.org/loans/vehicle/

Bonus: I received my $100 bonus from Alliant after the dealer cashed the check, about a week after vehicle delivery. 

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Great original post and thread.

Everyone comparison shops by email these days so what is the unique essence of the OP's method? It seems to be that one should be very explicit about the vehicle one is looking for, as well as all available incentives, and to spell those out in the first email (this conveys that the purchaser is informed and won't easily be yanked around); and also to provide a tight and firm deadline as well that happens to be when the dealer needs to make a deal (ie, end of month or quarter). These factors seem to tip the playing field firmly in your favor by creating urgency on the dealer's part, rather than yours. Is that it?

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ingenue007 said:   I do phone for a couple reasons:

1. I am busy. I've done negotiations inside the dealer, but if I've got to be in the mood. I will say you can likely have more negotiation power if you do this right b/c you have a human connection (albeit possibly a short one) and aren't someone the person can't see nor imagine. I did a negotiation for my dad for a sticker price BMW 328 for 43k and got it for 38,500.
2. Email is too easy to dismiss someone as just fishing around. Sure you can say you contacted X dealers and got X price, but again they can't see nor hear you so they can dismiss you quicker b/c again less emotional connection.
3. I think phone is a good medium. It allows you to actually talk to someone, but for the people that don't like confrontation, allow you to be more assertive w/o you being scared and then backing off and not sticking to your guns. The main tactic of mine is time restraint. I always tell my friends (usually girls b/c they suck at this) to find the exact car and get their card and tell them they are just driving to see if they like this car or not. I do this too so car people don't bother me too much. Then I tell them to get best price when they leave. This gives me a starting point and tells me how negotiable it is. Then I tell them to email them and tell them I am calling at X time. I like to pick a time when I am free or when it is dead in the middle of the day so they are more willing to deal. Then I tell them I have 15 mins b/c I am on lunch break, going to the gym, whatever reason I want. I tell them I have called multiple dealers including outside the city b/c I am from there and visit there a lot and can buy the car there, but prefer to do it here for obvious reasons. I tell them if the price is right, I will buy rt now with 500 CC deposit and come over there later to pay for it. If they balk, I say OK and will call the next dealer. Easy as that.

Confidence is relayed through the phone even if they can't see you. I man up and act more jerky and talk pretty forcefully and will cut them off sometimes. Same tactics they use to you. I'm a car negotiation ninja.

BTW I personally just bought for myself a used 2000 Audi S4 with K04 turbos (and believe it or not, 60k worth of maintenance and upgrades/modifications from 1 single owner) making 450 HP. I negotiated this, but not too much. Saved 400 talking for 5 mins. This is a specific car to get and there's really no real true pricing on it. TMV private party is 6k for stock non-modified car. Ad is 11,900. I pay 11,500. 820 HP in my garage from 2 cars!

  How about every hundred dollars you save me over the trueCar Target price, I'll split 50:50 with you?

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Are the incentives already included in the Dealer Invoice Price, or the FMV/TMV prices provided by Edmunds or TrueCar?

Or are the incentives separately calculated?

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hoodrep said:   Are the incentives already included in the Dealer Invoice Price, or the FMV/TMV prices provided by Edmunds or TrueCar?

Or are the incentives separately calculated?

The research that I purchased from fightingchance.com states that there are many things included in the invoice price including incentives but dealers don't have to tell you about them.
we used to be able to look up dealer cost online but that is no longer available on the web. We can find MSRP and Invoice pricing online via separate sites.

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I used the letter posted here and sent it to 50 dealers. I got some nice quotes but how do I tell which quote is legit? I checked their inventory on their site and none of them have my exact car on the lot, and the ones who do quoted me a higher price. Thanks in advance.

Also, anyone have luck with their local dealer matching? Thanks

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cola262 said:   I used the letter posted here and sent it to 50 dealers. I got some nice quotes but how do I tell which quote is legit? I checked their inventory on their site and none of them have my exact car on the lot, and the ones who do quoted me a higher price. Thanks in advance.

Also, anyone have luck with their local dealer matching? Thanks

  
I required them to give me a VIN number and sticker.  With Chrysler, all I needed was the VIN to pull it up online so the sticker just saved me a step.  Through my research I was able to determine the invoice price of all options was a percentage of the MSRP - 82% IIRC.  Base was 92% or so.  From there I built a spreadsheet where I entered the vehicle base and options totals and calculated an invoice price.  This would get me within +/- $20 of the actual invoice you could build at Edmunds and the other sites, so it was close enough to save a ton of time building individual trucks.  From there it was easy to calculate what percentage below invoice they were offering.  I even threw in a pickup cost field to adjust for picking it up 200 miles away vs. 20. 

I ended up with about 12 solid leads.  I printed the stickers and grouped them based on the options I required and didn't really want.  Trucks can be more complicated than cars since you have so many options available (two engines, three transmissions, three axle ratios, with or without anti-slip, trailer brake, towing mirrors, ......)  That got me down to 3 or 4 on the A list.  Best was 6% below invoice but turned out to be a bait and switch d-bag dealer.  Next best was 4% and where I ended up buying. 

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Tom9999 said:   
cola262 said:   I used the letter posted here and sent it to 50 dealers. I got some nice quotes but how do I tell which quote is legit? I checked their inventory on their site and none of them have my exact car on the lot, and the ones who do quoted me a higher price. Thanks in advance.

Also, anyone have luck with their local dealer matching? Thanks

  
I required them to give me a VIN number and sticker.  With Chrysler, all I needed was the VIN to pull it up online so the sticker just saved me a step.  Through my research I was able to determine the invoice price of all options was a percentage of the MSRP - 82% IIRC.  Base was 92% or so.  From there I built a spreadsheet where I entered the vehicle base and options totals and calculated an invoice price.  This would get me within +/- $20 of the actual invoice you could build at Edmunds and the other sites, so it was close enough to save a ton of time building individual trucks.  From there it was easy to calculate what percentage below invoice they were offering.  I even threw in a pickup cost field to adjust for picking it up 200 miles away vs. 20. 

I ended up with about 12 solid leads.  I printed the stickers and grouped them based on the options I required and didn't really want.  Trucks can be more complicated than cars since you have so many options available (two engines, three transmissions, three axle ratios, with or without anti-slip, trailer brake, towing mirrors, ......)  That got me down to 3 or 4 on the A list.  Best was 6% below invoice but turned out to be a bait and switch d-bag dealer.  Next best was 4% and where I ended up buying. 

  Wow, thanks!

I think I have a couple of top contenders. I do want to purchase locally, but I couldn't find a thread on how to approach a local dealer to match. I have a feeling they wont'

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How does one find out the specifics of the vehicle from the VIN? I'd like to compare cars that are being quoted.

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Just bought a 2014 Prius 2 with carpeted floormats for $20,400 + TTL. Local dealer (Claremont Toyota) had 5 in stock on a Thursday. Went in on Sunday and they still had 3 in stock. Sticker was $24k and Invoice was $22k and there was a $1500 manufacturer rebate.

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Thank you for this thread. I followed the instructions and got a local dealer to match, about $3k below invoice.

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I followed the process and sent quote request emails to 10 vendors. Nine of them wanted to play ball and submitted quotes. I sent a second email to all of the dealers with prices higher than the, currently, winning dealer. One of the higher vendors wants to see the email quote from the lowest bidder.

How should I handle that?

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armature said:   I followed the process and sent quote request emails to 10 vendors. Nine of them wanted to play ball and submitted quotes. I sent a second email to all of the dealers with prices higher than the, currently, winning dealer. One of the higher vendors wants to see the email quote from the lowest bidder.

How should I handle that?


Do you mean you sent round 2 with prices LOWER than the current low bidder???

Remember emails (and offers contained within) are editable. Get out you eraser. The worst they can say is no.

(You may still want to be somewhat rational in your offers so you don't have to start over). I never give my real name or email address until the very end, that way no harm done if you need to abandon the process.

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cheapdad00 said:   
armature said:   I followed the process and sent quote request emails to 10 vendors. Nine of them wanted to play ball and submitted quotes. I sent a second email to all of the dealers with prices higher than the, currently, winning dealer. One of the higher vendors wants to see the email quote from the lowest bidder.

How should I handle that?


Do you mean you sent round 2 with prices LOWER than the current low bidder???

Remember emails (and offers contained within) are editable. Get out you eraser. The worst they can say is no.

(You may still want to be somewhat rational in your offers so you don't have to start over). I never give my real name or email address until the very end, that way no harm done if you need to abandon the process.

  
No, my second round email used the exact numbers from my lowest bidder and said,
Dear [name of sales clown],

I appreciate your response to my quote request. I have received three acceptable offers at separate dealerships. These offers are defined as an acceptable color combination and accessories. The best initial offer (initial, since I have not counter offered yet) is an out-the-door price of $x.

The break-down in the numbers is:
Vehicle: $x
Accessories: $y
TTL & Documentation: $z
The dealer provided a specific color vehicle with a verifiable VIN/stock number and less than 25 miles on the odometer.

The quote you provided is somewhat higher. I would like to understand if you are flexible in your offer. Is there a better offer you could make that would affect my decision? As I stated, I have not counter offered yet, so I expect the final price or package (maybe throw in some accessories that I want for free) will get better. If this is something that you cannot do, I totally understand and I will not take up any more of your time.

Thanks,
---me


In response to that email, the 5th place bidder requested the email that I received from the 1st place bidder so s/he could use give it to his/her management team to work out a deal.
 

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Used the method in the OP for the second time last month and got great results yet again.

This may have been covered earlier but it's getting increasingly difficult to get direct e-mail addresses for the internet sales departments - they've all gone over to web forms. I purchased a Nissan, and used the Nissan website dealer locator to find the names all dealerships within a 250 mile radius of me. Then I Googled each one and found their contact us web form, and cut and pasted my mass e-mail into the comments box of the web forms. About 75% of the web forms require a phone number, but I said in the comments that I was at work and could only respond to e-mails, and put the dealers own phone # in that field.

Almost all the dealers sent me back some kind of a form response initially, and judging by the early responses very few of the dealers were actually reading what I was putting in the comments of the web form. So I started replying to each of the form responses with my initial e-mail just to make sure they got it.

One other note was that the best price I was able to get was spot on the price TrueCar said it could get me. It was a limited availability car with very high demand, so I don't think finding a small dealership that needed to meet payroll was really on the table, as only the big dealers have the pull to get their hands on the car I was looking for right now.

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In a similar vein to jpsultan above. The initial e-mail to dealers didn't yield too many positive results. I was able to use Truecar to get a few dealers attention and ended up being able to pit 3-4 dealerships within a 250 mi radius in to a war $500-1,000 at a time I was able to buy @ considerably < Truecar's supposed best price. It was all about finding the weak dealership then getting e-mails to use as ammo. No wonder dealerships like to go "we're a no haggle" dealership.

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CokeSlurpee711 said:   In a similar vein to jpsultan above. The initial e-mail to dealers didn't yield too many positive results. I was able to use Truecar to get a few dealers attention and ended up being able to pit 3-4 dealerships within a 250 mi radius in to a war $500-1,000 at a time I was able to buy @ considerably < Truecar's supposed best price. It was all about finding the weak dealership then getting e-mails to use as ammo. No wonder dealerships like to go "we're a no haggle" dealership.

Remember that dealers have to pay a commission on a sale to the name of the person who provided their info to truecar.

So you have a little more wiggle room if you are creative.

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Yup, sometimes need to submit via the forms (with a far more generic email) and wait until the Internet Sales Manager to reply. Usually the reply will have their email address and/or direct phone line.

I did this 2 weekends ago first, then once I had all the email addresses, sent the BCC email message with the exact car I wanted. Got great results.

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Will be purchasing a LS460 a month from now for a family member and will let everyone know how it goes and the price using this specific advice as posted by ilikebtmoney

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Used this thread to purchase a CRV this weekend. 5 dealers in my area. All responded with 48hrs.

2014 LX FWD w/tint for $22.4 OTD

Thanks everyone!

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I will share my experience here as a long time FWF memeber... I didn't really follow all the techniques described in this thread but had a very successful deal (IMHO).

Bought a 2014 Toyota Sienna XLE in the Charlotte, NC area. Traded in my RAV4.

Keep in mind, we had a long time to do this as we were not in hurry, but you can follow many of these steps quickly and get the deal done within a day or two.

  • Two months before we bought the car, we first test drove two different models and even Honda Odyssey to make sure which car we want. We also narrowed down to a particular series (XLE) in Sienna and a few acceptable colors and optional features (some were must-have, some were good-to-have - but never ever let your dealer know which ones are must-have features for you). At the first visit to the dealership we got really stupid prices because the salesman directly wanted to go to monthly payments making a calculation from the price of the car we wanted to buy minus the trade in and the interest etc.
  • Always break out the deal in 3 steps, if you're trading in: 1) the final, OTD price of the car you want to buy 2) the trade-in price of the vehicle you're sellign and 3) finance options (if any). Never try to do all three in one...they will change things around and screw you over...but as FWF member you know all these.
  • Went to carmax and got a no-negotiation quote for our RAV4
  • A week before we were ready, I first looked at TrueCar through AMEX and got "guaranteed savings certificates" with fancy barcodes and stuff. That set off alarms at 3-4 dealerships and I got a bunch of e-mails. I then tried to do the deal over the phone with all of them and 2 of them gave me a good price. I now had a good idea of what price I should pay. ~15% off the MSRP is a good deal....in most cases.
  • I then went to the nearest dealer. They had one Sienna for ridiculous price on their website. $35,598 MSRP, $28,977 selling price or 18.5% OFF msrp. But that was in lieu of all discounts. They'd honor the price but won't budge on giving us the carmax price for our RAV4. Nor would they offer 0% financing.
  • I walked out 3 times and finally a week later I went back but this time that particular car was gone. The next closest option was at $36,098 and I asked for the same selling price. We quickly settled on $29, 997, 19.6% OFF MSRP. They also grudgingly offer $400 less than carmax for my car. I mostly paid the difference in cash but rest of it was a loan from my credit union at only 1.74% APR


Summary: 
2014 Toyota Sienna XLE, 8-passenger sedan with all leather, sunroof, premium sound, BSM (Blind spot monitor) & RCTA (Rear-cross traffic alert)
$36,098 MSRP
$28,997 OTD price
 

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DW wants a hybrid, we need enough space, decided on 2014 Toyota Prius V two.

Test drove it on 13th, drafted a  screening email based on inputs in this discussion, sent it to dealers within 100 miles ( we are in SouCal) a week ago. Got about 7-8 replies within three days,

Sent follow-up emails 4 days ago (again based on the template here), only three dealers were willing to negotiated though email or/and phone.Even though we want to purchase from the closer dealer, the internet manager kept flipping flopping about the price. We went to the other dealer, took 90 minutes to have all paper work done, took the $1,000 rebate, instead of $500 plus 0% for 5 years.

Final tally:
MSRP: 27,878
Invoice: 26,412  (Minus 1,000 rebate)
final OTD: 25,995

I also took my friend to the same dealer, she is getting the same price plus 500, since she will finance it .at 0% for 5 years

Thank you all for extremely helpful tips . Otherwise, I may use my bank or costco.
 

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After car browsing for months, decided on a new Camry. Local dealers trying to blow them out, 2015 all redesigned. I tried the techniques here but also searched auto trader for cheapest 2014 or 2014.5 Camrys in the country.

Ended up price matching a local large dealer's out the door price (Boch Toyota in Norwood, MA), with a dealership a few miles down the street from my house, then leasing based off that price. Why lease, some may ask. Well I was able to put down less money and payments will be low for next 2 years. $81/month lease vs $276 if I purchased with same money down.

The specifics:
MSRP: $24,005
INVOICE: $22,296
SELLING PRICE: $18,296

2014.5 TOYOTA CAMRY LE
PRICE INFORMATION
$18,296 Vehicle Price
$369.00 Doc Fee
$1,167.00 Mass Sales Tax (6.25%)
$135.00 New Plate/Registration/Title
$19,967 TOTAL PRICE OUT THE DOOR

$3,400 out of pocket and like I said $81/month. End of 2 year lease buyout price is ~$15,400.

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Picked up Jaguar XJ Supercharged yesterday.  MSRP, Tax, title, License, etc was ~$97,500 and we ended up getting it out the door for $85,000 exactly.  

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