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posted: Jul. 22, 2010 @ 7:49a
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posted: Jul. 22, 2010 @ 12:13p
Can you provide any insight as to why you might want to create a lien for yourself?
UCC-1 forms are used to create liens, but I can't say I have ever heard of anyone filing a lien against themself (you are loaning money to you and want you to perfect a security interest against property owned by you. you get it?)
Senior Member - 2K
posted: Jul. 22, 2010 @ 12:16p
I don't know either.. I wonder if secondary liens might change how recovery actions take place against assets...
A little more research indicates that this sets the lien holder first in line in terms of asset protection at time of bankruptcy. I suspect filing on yourself might give the indications to other creditors that they're 2nd and 3rd tier.. Maybe make them much more willing to negotiate.
Legal? Dunno.. Doesn't sound like it.
posted: Jul. 22, 2010 @ 1:57p
This is a conspiracy theory that falls under the "sovereign citizen" movement (also sometimes called "freeman on the land," usually in the UK). Its based on 1970s far right/white supremacist movements that sought to declare themselves "free" from government jurisdiction. Redemption - based on a completely false reading of the law and based on wholly made up legal documents - was one of their methods.
Its not only a scam, filing all the frivolous and baseless legal documents you need for "redemption" is likely to get you into court trouble, as the courts do not take lightly to frivolous lien filings. The redemption scam becomes popular in cycles in sync with the economy, since when the economy is down more people are looking for free money.
Simple answer: Stay far away unless you enjoy filing frivolous legal documents and having court actions taken against you. The success rate of the redemption movement is at 0%:
SPLC said: As the creator of the "Redemption movement," a bizarre fusion of conspiracy theories and financial chicanery, Roger Elvick claims he has liberated his "straw man," a secret doppelganger created by the U.S. government to capture the economic value of U.S. citizens who, according to the Redemption doctrine, have unknowingly been sold into slavery to a Jewish-run international banking cabal. But while Elvick's straw man is free—at least in his own mind—the rest of him is back in prison. In April, Elvick pleaded guilty to one count each of forgery, extortion and engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity, and was sentenced to four years in an Ohio state penitentiary. The 68-year-old far-right extremist and former Aryan Nations associate was charged for aiding and abetting a ring of Redemption scammers based in Akron, Ohio, home to Right Way Law, a clearinghouse for the Redemption movement's pseudo-legal shenanigans. http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2005/summer/patriots-for-profit
More information: http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2009/spring/return-of-the-sovereigns http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/scm.asp?xpicked=4 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redemption_movement
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posted: Jul. 22, 2010 @ 2:01p
Unfortunately, I know quite a bit more about this than I would like. Essentially, the redemption crowd thinks that the number on the back of your birth certificate is tied to an account at the treasury. This number is assigned a value based on the "value" of an american citizen. I heard it's 1-3 million dollars. You write bonds against this account to draw from the value of your treasury direct account. I personally know some of leading "redemption" experts, and they are always in trouble with the IRS or local taxing authorities. It doesn't end. Once you go down the redemption hole, you're stuck.
I think the exact form they use to start this whole redemption process is the UCC-1-203, and you must file this as a "freeman". A "freeman" is someone who is not a fourteenth amendment citizen. These people believe the fourteenth amendment changed freemen to citizens living under the color of law, ie "colored" people. Crazy. Really. Stay away.
posted: Jul. 23, 2010 @ 1:03a
Wow, these guys make the run of the mill tax deniers (16th Amendment wasn't ratified, income tax only applies in DC, etc. etc.) sound positively sane...
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posted: Jul. 23, 2010 @ 2:54a
I won't out anyone not currently in jail. However, here is a well respected man in the 'redemption' movement. text
BTW, did you know the British fought the war of 1812 to make americans slaves to their banks?
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