So they have companies in California like Sungevity and SolarCity leasing solar panels for 20 years or so. Let me give you a rundown of a recent quote I received from SolarCity in Los Angeles.
This is for a small 2.15kW system. My electricity bill is usually $40/month for $1600sqft (3BR, 2BTH) in Pasadena, CA. It's hot here but even at the peak, July was only $67. You guys should know that SolarCity leases already factor in rebates and tax credits. Also, at the end of 20 years they say you can buy it at 10% it's market value or give a low ball offer like a few hundred dollars and they will probably take it (says 2 consultants I spoke with). After 90 days they need to pick it up. If they don't it's yours. of course maybe in 20 years we can transport to the moon.
Anyway, here's the 4 options based on my scenario: 1. $0 down, $43 month to SolarCity, $12 electric bill for 20 years (increase of 3.9% a year for lease) 2. $2400 down, $23 month to Solar City, $12 electric bill for 20 years (no increase) 3. I pay $4200 for 20 year lease w/no monthly charge and I can own the system almost for free at end of 20 years. 4. purchase system for $8k.
He also said he'd pass on an employee 5% discount to me. he usually has to check with his boss but he can just let it slide this time. Is this feasible and if so, would option 3 be best?
lancelot916 said: So they have companies in California like Sungevity and SolarCity leasing solar panels for 20 years or so. Let me give you a rundown of a recent quote I received from SolarCity in Los Angeles.
This is for a small 2.15kW system. My electricity bill is usually $40/month for $1600sqft (3BR, 2BTH) in Pasadena, CA. It's hot here but even at the peak, July was only $67. You guys should know that SolarCity leases already factor in rebates and tax credits. Also, at the end of 20 years they say you can buy it at 10% it's market value or give a low ball offer like a few hundred dollars and they will probably take it (says 2 consultants I spoke with). After 90 days they need to pick it up. If they don't it's yours. of course maybe in 20 years we can transport to the moon.
Anyway, here's the 4 options based on my scenario: 1. $0 down, $43 month to SolarCity, $12 electric bill for 20 years (increase of 3.9% a year for lease) 2. $2400 down, $23 month to Solar City, $12 electric bill for 20 years (no increase) 3. I pay $4200 for 20 year lease w/no monthly charge and I can own the system almost for free at end of 20 years. 4. purchase system for $8k.
He also said he'd pass on an employee 5% discount to me. he usually has to check with his boss but he can just let it slide this time. Is this feasible and if so, would option 3 be best? Where does the $12 electric bill come from in options 1, 2? Is it because the solar system cannot supply all the required power? In option 3, do you still have an electric bill?
Are they responsible for maintenance when you lease? Is there a separate charge for that. What if the system breaks down? What happens if you need to sell the house in option 3? Is there any commitment in option 1 (or 2)?
uutxs said: Where does the $12 electric bill come from in options 1, 2? Is it because the solar system cannot supply all the required power? In option 3, do you still have an electric bill?
Are they responsible for maintenance when you lease? Is there a separate charge for that. What if the system breaks down? What happens if you need to sell the house in option 3? Is there any commitment in option 1 (or 2)?
great questions! $12 electricity bill is estimated amount I'd owe current utility company (for night-time or when weather is bad). this is true of all options. most companies don't provide battery so that it can store electricity for later use. it's just use during day.
through leasing, both and most companies provide - free 24/7 online monitoring - free repairs and maintenance - system guarantee or money back - can upgrade to new system at end of lease
when you sell house, you can either: - sell house and transfer lease to buyer - prepay the rest of the amount and add that to your selling price - take it with you to new property but you pay out of pocket for removal
all lease options are 20 years via SolarCity and right now 10 years through Sungevity but I hear they are passing policy change soon for 20 years as standard...
Option 1 : like a loan of $4200 at 10.5% apr Option 2 : like a loan of $1800 at 14.5% apr Option 3 : $4200
Of all options, option 3 looks the best however given your energy bill savings of only ~$40 a month it seems the system will be pretty close to a wash. Have you checked with other solar companies the price to buy a system who don't lease?
lancelot916 said: He also said he'd pass on an employee 5% discount to me. he usually has to check with his boss but he can just let it slide this time. Red flag.
RedCelicaGT said: lancelot916 said: He also said he'd pass on an employee 5% discount to me. he usually has to check with his boss but he can just let it slide this time. Red flag.
Ditto, completely independant of solar, or leasing, or solar leasing, this guy sounds like he's scamming you.
lancelot916 said: great questions! $12 electricity bill is estimated amount I'd owe current utility company (for night-time or when weather is bad). this is true of all options. most companies don't provide battery so that it can store electricity for later use. it's just use during day. Dont you typically "sell" your excess electricity to the utility company throughout the day (your meter runs backwards), which then offsets any you draw from the utility when your system isnt producing enough?
"...And people who don't use a lot of electricity aren't likely to see savings, SolarCity says. In California, for instance, that's anyone with electric bills under $150 a month..."
Thantoz
Member
posted: Sep. 1, 2010 @ 9:19a
Here's an interesting site I came across last month when doing some light research into solar leasing:
http://solarflowenergy.com/lease_purchase.html
This other company charges:
$1,000 deposit $120 lease payment a month for 15 years $0 electricity bill (assumes you typically spent around $72 a month on electricity)
They charge $42,650 to just buy it instead of lease.
It's not an apples to apples comparison since Minneapolis very different then Pasadena, but it does put your quote into perspective. Your numbers seem suspiciously low.
$1,000 deposit $120 lease payment a month for 15 years $0 electricity bill (assumes you typically spent around $72 a month on electricity)
They charge $42,650 to just buy it instead of lease.
It's not an apples to apples comparison since Minneapolis very different then Pasadena, but it does put your quote into perspective. Your numbers seem suspiciously low.He already said the lease already factors in credits/rebates, which I'd assume your quote does not. And the size needed in CA is going to be much smaller than one needed in MN to get the same results - besides day-to-day, also consider year-round results (have to produce enough in the summer to offset lost production due to blizzards in the winter...).
lancelot916 said: So they have companies in California like Sungevity and SolarCity leasing solar panels for 20 years or so. Let me give you a rundown of a recent quote I received from SolarCity in Los Angeles.
1)Also, at the end of 20 years they say you can buy it at 10% it's market value or give a low ball offer like a few hundred dollars and they will probably take it (says 2 consultants I spoke with).
2)After 90 days they need to pick it up. If they don't it's yours. of course maybe in 20 years we can transport to the moon.
3)He also said he'd pass on an employee 5% discount to me. he usually has to check with his boss but he can just let it slide this time. Is this feasible and if so, would option 3 be best?
1)What value does statement one hold for you? Assuming you lease it, 20 years from now, there will probably be either: much more advanced and efficient solar panels, more expensive to upkeep and fix then the purchase price, different rules and regulations, no one from the company being able to check what Bill from '10 promised to you or the end of the world. Pick one, but none of them are good for you.
2)It is obvious the company does not have concrete plans for what will happen 20 years from now...
3)Are you just such an outstanding person that you get 5% discounts all the time, or is there a commission involved?
What will happen if the company goes out of business or is bought out, or something else? It almost seems like they are telling you whatever they can to push you to buy under the assumption that they will deal with it 20 years later.
"...And people who don't use a lot of electricity aren't likely to see savings, SolarCity says. In California, for instance, that's anyone with electric bills under $150 a month..." This. Why on earth are you considering solar for such a small utility bill? I understand there's personal satisfaction in investing in solar, and you're doing good for the economy, but if your electricity bill is only $70 a month in summer *in California*, there's very little reason for you to do this.
Also, the 5% employee discount thing *does* sound like a bit of a red flag. Not a scam red flag, but a "gotta get this guy to close the deal for my commission" red flag.
- cjspangler
dcg9381
Senior Member - 1K
posted: Sep. 1, 2010 @ 2:03p
Glitch99 said: Dont you typically "sell" your excess electricity to the utility company throughout the day (your meter runs backwards), which then offsets any you draw from the utility when your system isnt producing enough?
Yes. This is the correct way to do it. The grid acts as the piggy bank / battery, because it can actually roll backwards. You do NOT want batteries, unless you're completely off grid.
I'd want to know: 1) What type (brand / model) of panels they use. 2) Who is responsible for the install and the grid tie? 3) Who is responsible for the permitting? 4) What brand / type of inverter. 5) What happens if you move. Who is responsible if the inverter fails or if the panels degrade?
To me, this isn't about if you have a $70 bill or a $700 bill, it's either financially sound or it's not...
When they tell you what's going to happen after 20 years, that -my dear- is BS because these guys havent been around long enough for any of the sales drones to know about that.
tyrone3971
Cranky Member
posted: Sep. 1, 2010 @ 2:30p
Given that this is a finance forum ... I'll tell you that none of those options save you any money or time.
Cheezu
New Member
posted: Sep. 1, 2010 @ 2:33p
Actually, you probably know exactly what is going to happen in 20 years...
Based on "After 90 days they need to pick it up. If they don't it's yours." It is probably a good guess that the worn out panels are yours to keep. The company won't want to go through the effort of demounting and disposal. When you factor in the cost to dispose of these panels on your own dime, it's probably not a hot deal.
dcg9381
Senior Member - 1K
posted: Sep. 1, 2010 @ 2:39p
Cheezu said: Actually, you probably know exactly what is going to happen in 20 years... Based on "After 90 days they need to pick it up. If they don't it's yours." It is probably a good guess that the worn out panels are yours to keep. The company won't want to go through the effort of demounting and disposal. When you factor in the cost to dispose of these panels on your own dime, it's probably not a hot deal.
Where are you guys getting this stuff? How about we contribute to posts that we know something about instead of coming up with dooms-day theories?
Even panels that perform at 50% can easily be sold or given away.
Given, there is some solar technology that starts to degrade after about 5 years, but most panels made by reputable providers have significant warranty periods. The Sharp panels that I just installed on the last project have a warranty (performance based) of 25 years. Usually this warranty means that they will not drop past 80% of rated output. I call that pretty good lifespan. It's also why I asked the question about make/model of panel.
Again, it doesn't matter if your utility bill of $70 or $700 - there is a scale factor for solar and the math is pretty simple. And note, I'm not pro-solar in every case, but the economics are fairly easy to figure out, but usually depend on how long you'll be at that location.
dcg9381 said: Cheezu said: Actually, you probably know exactly what is going to happen in 20 years... Based on "After 90 days they need to pick it up. If they don't it's yours." It is probably a good guess that the worn out panels are yours to keep. The company won't want to go through the effort of demounting and disposal. When you factor in the cost to dispose of these panels on your own dime, it's probably not a hot deal.
Where are you guys getting this stuff? How about we contribute to posts that we know something about instead of coming up with dooms-day theories?
Even panels that perform at 50% can easily be sold or given away.Thats a tough assumption to make for 20 years in the future.
Cheezu
New Member
posted: Sep. 1, 2010 @ 3:23p
We're a little touchy. You may not have realized it but I was actually lending support to your comment...
"When they tell you what's going to happen after 20 years, that -my dear- is BS because these guys havent been around long enough for any of the sales drones to know about that."
The OP pretty much stated that the company is a little loose on the end of contract issues. You may be 'in the industry' but OP obviously isn't so the resale may be more of an issue. Twenty years from now, maybe a system with significantly higher efficiency will replace the current. Even if the drop in performance due to aging is insignificant, simple advancement in the technology will make the current less desirable. It's just an item to consider and it's hardly doomsday.
Regardless, the OP would probably be better served with a contract that is a little more concrete.
dcg9381
Senior Member - 1K
posted: Sep. 1, 2010 @ 3:42p
Cheezu said: We're a little touchy. You may not have realized it but I was actually lending support to your comment...
"When they tell you what's going to happen after 20 years, that -my dear- is BS because these guys havent been around long enough for any of the sales drones to know about that."
Fair enough. Note, I'm not touchy about you calling the company or contract into question. On that, you and I agree 100%. There is no way their sales "representative" can tell you how the off-lease equipment will be disposed contrary to indications in the contract 20 years from now.
I am touchy about indications that solar panels will fail to perform after a few years as it's based on conjecture. Again, the typical warranty for panels is 15-25 years, guaranteed to 80% output or better. This means (in the case of Sharp) that after 25 years that panel will still be putting out at least 80% of it's original output.
If I could get "worn out" panels that had 50% of their original power output, I'd buy them.. Discounted, of course, but the last panels I bought were about $750 each (225 watt). Unless something fundamental changes in technology, these things will still be valuable.. No not state of the art, no not highest output per inch, but they're essentially maintenance free power. Any way you slice it, energy demand has gone up decade after decade. I don't think we're going to have a fundamental supply/demand shift in the next 20 years.
akbakb
New Member
posted: Sep. 1, 2010 @ 3:43p
How much would it cost to remove and then reinstall the system in case your roof needs to be repaired? Any issues with your home insurance?
I recently signed up with solar lease with SunRunHome in CO. With the costs involved and longer time involved for breaking even, I didn't feel purchase option is financially viable. With lease option, I'm locked in at about 9c/kwh for 20 yrs, protected against utility rate increases, still pay low monthly payments. For 4.8KW system, $44/month. When compared to purchase option, monthly payment comes comparable 4% interest rate (If you were to take a loan for the purchase price, $44 monthly payment comes at 4% rate). Overall, I'm happy with contract and for going Green. I'm still connected to the grid, so there will be minimum bill from utility, but I'm still OK.
I checked sungevity as well, monthly payments increase 2.5% every year, inflation adjusted. SunRunHome does not have this, at least for now. I was told this might change in future.
Leasing will get trouble free free warranty, monitoring, insurance etc. My friend who was considering purchasing option, was offered $2/panel/month for their monitoring tool which was ridiculous (Definitely this service is not needed). I heard, inverters life is about 10-15 yrs, which means leasing can replace inverters if broke. If there is any damage, it will be taken care of with min headaches (atleast, I hope to).
As with every system, this system also depreciates. Purchase option prices at every year are included in the agreement, at 19th year, I can buy the system for about $500 (1st yr started at $27k). System price at 20th year might be questionable as they might just leave it to you, it will definitely cost them more than $500 to removed system.
I recommend leasing without any second thoughts. If the company tanks, you may get the whole system for free (very unlikely though)
why 5% discount? I mentioned I knew an employee at SolarCity and asked if there are any discounts available to me since I have a friend who works there. I haven't been able to contact him but wanted to see if he could do something. that's when he offered 5%. FYI - rep also said his full name and that I can find him playing live at such and such location every tues/thurs night so he is not trying to twist my arm because I can find him in public and even game me his myspace page. Remember this is SolarCity, not craigslist.
Why considering solar? I assume if it all breaks even (this is assumption) why not help the environment if it's a possible win for all of us. this is just research phase. exploring if it is a possible win.
dcg9381
Senior Member - 1K
posted: Sep. 1, 2010 @ 4:48p
akbakb said: How much would it cost to remove and then reinstall the system in case your roof needs to be repaired? Any issues with your home insurance?
You're making the assumption that it would be roof mounted. There are specific compass bearing and tilt requirements that may or may not make a roof the correct mounting location.
In states with a lot of hail, there is no way that a composite roof will make it 20 years. Although the hail won't damage the solar equipment (in most cases) - it is an impediment when replacing the roof.
Generally the roof mounting systems go in pretty easy, assuming there isn't too much reorientation to deal with.
Glitch99 said: dcg9381 said: Cheezu said: Actually, you probably know exactly what is going to happen in 20 years... Based on "After 90 days they need to pick it up. If they don't it's yours." It is probably a good guess that the worn out panels are yours to keep. The company won't want to go through the effort of demounting and disposal. When you factor in the cost to dispose of these panels on your own dime, it's probably not a hot deal.
Where are you guys getting this stuff? How about we contribute to posts that we know something about instead of coming up with dooms-day theories?
Even panels that perform at 50% can easily be sold or given away.Thats a tough assumption to make for 20 years in the future.
I have some experience with solar panels and thought I would give my $.02. I purchased and had installed 24 BP Panels (3' X 5') almost a year ago. This is a 5.5 kw system, which is approximately 2.5 times the size of OP's. My annual electric consumption is 6000 kw/h for a 6,000 sq ft home.
Over the past year the panels have generated 7800 kw/h giving me a surplus of ~1800 kw/h. I have a passive system, meaning no batteries are involved. During the day, the meter runs backwards and during the night it rolls forward. I felt this was the best option because IMHO batteries are big, expensive, can be hazardous, and need to be replace on a regular basis. My electric company (Xcel Energy) is giving me the option of either selling the surplus energy at wholesale back to the company or having a rolling "bank" of electricity. I opted for the bank since wholesale rates are low and with 2 small kids, my consumption will likely increase.
My solar panels and inverter are warrantied for 25 years and the useful life of the panels is 50 years. These are very good panels and I would not assume that the panels you are considering are going to have the same useful life. You really need to get more information on the brand and type of panel.
I chose to purchase my panels rather than lease because there were multiple rebates and tax credit in place. The panels basically cost me $52K before any rebates or credits. There was a $35K rebate the electric company applied immediately and a $10K tax rebate that I took advantage of, bringing my total cost down to $7K.
I would check with your utility provider regarding the rebates and a CPA for the tax credits. It may make sense to actually purchase rather than lease. I am extremely satisfied with my purchase and have actually talked to two neighbors in my community that went ahead and also purchased solar panels (we were the 1st in our community). There was actually an article in the local paper this week that our Utility had the 2nd largest rate increase in the country of 24%, which really makes the purchase justifiable. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.
dcg9381
Senior Member - 1K
posted: Sep. 1, 2010 @ 5:25p
uvmgrad said: The panels basically cost me $52K before any rebates or credits. There was a $35K rebate the electric company applied immediately and a $10K tax rebate that I took advantage of, bringing my total cost down to $7K.
Shheesh.. That's a no-brainer if I ever heard of one. The wholesale vs "energy bank" is called "Net Metering" - see how these laws apply in your state.
Note, I just installed a 2.8KW system. I basically took less than 50% of the margin of a full time contractor's bid. The location where I installed it had no local rebate, no power company rebate. Federal rebate applied, but the power company actually CHARGED to allow grid connection - something about a "survey" fee. Even at cost, it's going to take about 12-15 years to recoop the investment (not counting opportunity cost) - and I'll be perfectly honest, I would not have advised to do an install in this circumstance.
However, the customer was really happy - they're "green" - have many other costly, but conservatory features... So to each his own.
A few months ago there were a few types of solar panels selling for less than $1/W (92c was the cheapest I saw) at least one UL listed and another not. Now all the low end is gone, the cheapest I can find is $1.49/W. It seems like panels in the mid range ~$2/W have only increased 10-20c but I wouldn't be surprised if supply starts drying up there too. Germany is buying ridiculous amounts of panels.
All these companies will be out of business in 5-10 years, whether it's from the economy or lawsuits or whatever.... So dont pay anything upfront
Contractors always Bk then start up under a new name
Now they may try to sell off these leases, but if they include maintenance few ppl will want to buy that obligation...so you may end up paying for just a few years and keep it for free
The same thing happened with all the tech companies giving out free devices lThen shutting down, ike virgin webplayer etc
$8K seems ridiculously high for a 2.15kW system. $4/watt installed was the price two years ago; panel prices are now a lot lower, not to mention the outrageous rebates and tax credits that are available (which is bringing the price down from $8K to $4200 -- nearly 50%.)
This whole solar-leasing business model sounds like a way to milk California and the US Government for enormous amounts of rebate money by artificially inflating the prices of the installations beyond market rates, and then have a recurring stream of revenue despite having recovered 100% of capital invested in the first year (sort of like credit sales on jewelry).
If I were Californian and didn't mind siphoning money out of its already shaky economy, I'd be tempted to lease with $0 down and bet that California will void the consumers' (its citizens') requirement to pay after a few years, reasoning that the company has more than recovered its investment and it's good public policy.
dcg9381
Senior Member - 1K
posted: Sep. 1, 2010 @ 9:30p
befalas said: $8K seems ridiculously high for a 2.15kW system. $4/watt installed was the price two years ago; panel prices are now a lot lower, not to mention the outrageous rebates and tax credits that are available (which is bringing the price down from $8K to $4200 -- nearly 50%.)
The cost of the panels is only part of the cost. And panel cost (for quality mainstream, warrantied, UL listed) has not dropped that much from a year ago. $8k sounds reasonable (ballpark) to me. Note, I'm talking about pre-rebate cost.
Sungevity is all fraud. They asked for my 12 months bills and then they showed that even in my first year, I would make money with the lease. Attaching my own personal analysis below based on my actual bills. They showed that I would net about $122 after lease payments whereas it is easy to see that I would have lost big time in the first year. So why bother asking for all the electricity bills if they are going to compute some phony savings numbers?
They also big savings based on 6.7% inflation rate on electricity costs every year which I don't buy either - definitely not for the base rate.
The leasing may make sense only if you have a huge consumption in the highest tier rate consistently throughout the year. If you are 200% of your solar at the highest tier in June and don't get in the highest tier in Nov, you still lose!
Analysis below (cut and paste from letter sent to the sales guy): ----------------------------------------------------------------
This system will approximately produce 350kwh. Since the monthly payment is $92, my per unit cost is approximately: $92/350kwh = 26c. That would not be too had if were shaving off from only my top tier rate electricity but as I look at my bills,
Bill dated - usage at rate 9/24 - 277kwh at mid tier at 0.25974 10/22 - All usage at base rate of 0.11531 11/23 - only 40kwH at 0.26, rest at 0.13 or 0.11 rate 12/23 - 117 kwH at 0.26, rest at 0.11 or 0.13 01/25 - Everything at base rate of 0.118 02/24 - Only 11.7kw at 0.27572 - rest at 0.11/0.13 03/29 - Only 3.7 kw at 0.275 - rest 0.11/0.13 04/26 - Only 16.72 kw at 0.285 05/26 - Everything at 0.11 or 0.13 06/24 - Only 29Khw at 0.28 rate 07/27 - 133KWh at 0.4 rate + lot of them at 0.29 rate
From my quick analysis above, except for the bill of 7/27, I would have every month if I had gone with your system since I am mostly paying 0.11 to 0.13 while solar will cost me 0.26 per unit. That is what is wrong with the savings that has been shown - it assumes that all the solar units shave off the top tier units which is far from the truth.
lancelot916 said: ...My electricity bill is usually $40/month for $1600sqft (3BR, 2BTH) in Pasadena, CA. It's hot here but even at the peak, July was only $67...WOW!!!
What are you running? A refrigerator and a nightlight?!?
What's your cost per kWH (Total: Delivery + Supply)?
How many kWH did you use in July?
I have a 1200 sqft ranch in Central NJ, run 2 wall-mounted A/Cs sparingly (if/when the indoor temperature rises above ~82°F, usually from late afternoon until the house reaches ~78°F), a whole-house fan at night (after the outside temperature drops below ~75°F), close the windows during the day, have three overgrown, ~45 year old maples shading the house, have CFLs installed in most 'on for several hours daily' fixtures and last month I used 1166kWH @ $213.89.
I have a 1200 sqft ranch in Central NJ, run 2 wall-mounted A/Cs sparingly (if/when the indoor temperature rises above ~82°F, usually from late afternoon until the house reaches ~78°F), a whole-house fan at night (after the outside temperature drops below ~75°F), close the windows during the day, have three overgrown, ~45 year old maples shading the house, have CFLs installed in most 'on for several hours daily' fixtures and last month I used 1166kWH @ $213.89.
My turn to ask you - do you drink electricity for breakfast or something? My situation: 3000+ sq ft home in CA - do have a whole house fan for when it is cooler outside, closed windows during day with blinds pulled down. 1223 KWh for bill dated 7/27. (I would have expected much smaller bill for you due to the smaller sized home). AC policy similar to yours though on most days, don't need to start the AC until 2-3PM due when the whole house fan cools the house down to 72 deg in the morning.
Couple of things to check:
1. What kind of dryer do you have? Electric or gas? Mine is gas. Thank god for that one - I would be otherwise be broke paying for electricity at the top tier electricity rate for that one.
2. How long do you run the whole house fan? Even though cheaper than AC, my quick observation was that my whole house fan consumes electricity at the rate of 0.5 to 1 kw/hour. So if you keep that on for the full night, that itself could be mucho kwh's for the whole month.
By the way, I pursue a two part theory on the AC and it would be interesting to see if somebody debunks it. We have a 2-story house. Part 1: During the day, when everybody is downstairs, the upstairs AC thermostat is set a high temp - effectively it is almost off. Theory being cold air is heavier and remains downstairs. Part 2: At night, when we are sleeping and if the upstairs AC is ON, I keep the doors on the room closed. My theory being that if I don't close the doors, the cold air keeps migrating downstairs. By the keeping the doors closed, I slow down the migration process. General gut feel is that this is working since with the doors open, the AC cycles OFF to ON in a shorter timer than with the doors closed.
lancelot916 said: ...My electricity bill is usually $40/month for $1600sqft (3BR, 2BTH) in Pasadena, CA. It's hot here but even at the peak, July was only $67...
Can we talk only in kwH instead of dollar amounts? Dollar amounts are meaningless since the rates between some of the electric companies are totally different. Also, due to the tiering (not sure if every electric company does this), the dollar amounts are non-linearly proportional to the consumption - so $200 electric bill does not mean that the consumption was twice as much as the $100 electric bill.
PrincipalMember said: lancelot916 said: ...My electricity bill is usually $40/month for $1600sqft (3BR, 2BTH) in Pasadena, CA. It's hot here but even at the peak, July was only $67...
Can we talk only in kwH instead of dollar amounts? Dollar amounts are meaningless since the rates between some of the electric companies are totally different. Also, due to the tiering (not sure if every electric company does this), the dollar amounts are non-linearly proportional to the consumption - so $200 electric bill does not mean that the consumption was twice as much as the $100 electric bill.
Sure here are the numbers from this year in kwH:
July - 486 June - 315 May - 234 April - 224 March - 181 February - 264 January - 249
By the way, I pursue a two part theory on the AC and it would be interesting to see if somebody debunks it. We have a 2-story house. Part 1: During the day, when everybody is downstairs, the upstairs AC thermostat is set a high temp - effectively it is almost off. Theory being cold air is heavier and remains downstairs. Part 2: At night, when we are sleeping and if the upstairs AC is ON, I keep the doors on the room closed. My theory being that if I don't close the doors, the cold air keeps migrating downstairs. By the keeping the doors closed, I slow down the migration process. General gut feel is that this is working since with the doors open, the AC cycles OFF to ON in a shorter timer than with the doors closed.
I've thought about this before, but was concerned with my AC thermostat...it's downstairs. So, in the evenings, the Bedrooms are getting pumped full of cold air, but the AC doesn't shut off b/c it's still warm(er) downstairs...
Not saying I'm right...just giving you something to think about.
dcg9381
Senior Member - 1K
posted: Sep. 2, 2010 @ 11:44a
PrincipalMember said: Can we talk only in kwH instead of dollar amounts?
Yes, that's really the only accurate way to compare. My utility company charges $20 just for the honor of being connected to the grid.
dcg's energy use. Note, I run a well pump at 500' depth and a septic system. 3/2.5, although only 2 beds and 2 baths are cooled. I'm disadvantaged as my 2/2 part of the home is upstairs and there is no foundation thermocouple. I have solar water, foam insulation and 15 or 16 SEER HVAC.
I'm in Texas. What jumps out at me is that the few times per year I have to heat the house (electric heat pump / electric back up) it REALLY costs some money. kWh 8/2009 1583 9/2009 1615 10/2009 1428 11/2009 1127 12/2009 1221 1/2010 1405 2/2010 1752 3/2010 1543 4/2010 900 5/2010 1002 6/2010 1279 7/2010 1763 8/2010 1656
Skipping 28 Messages...
Dima9
New Member
posted: Sep. 15, 2010 @ 3:36p
Can anyone recommend a NJ solar company? I'm interested in leasing. thanks!
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