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i mean if OP was for realz he could at least bet the farm on some GLD calls, that i would respect. it's not time for physical yet

motuwallet said: i mean if OP was for realz he could at least bet the farm on some GLD calls, that i would respect. it's not time for physical yet

Except he can't hide the options and slowly sell them off and use the money after declaring bankruptcy. He also can't buy options with a credit card. The point here is that as long as he is willing to commit bankruptcy fraud, the main thrust of tis strategy, he really can't lose. It's not really a gold play, it's a theft play with a gold play backdoor exit.

delzy said: Great tips. I usually play craps - pass line, maximum odds, place 6 and 8 for at least 2 units and cover the 5 and 9 on the first hit. How large of sessions do you think would be appropriate to achieve my goals?

Well, if you're a dice player, your best bet would be to look around for a floor person that would count your odds bets in your rating. They're not supposed to (because the odds bet has no house advantage) but sometimes they will.

Another fun hustle in craps is to only bet with certain shooters. That way you're getting rated the whole time, but you're only gambling part of it.

Otherwise, you'll want to just have one play-till-your-eyes-bleed long ass session. Play like 10-12 hours. Try to make diamond in one day at Harrah's. Just do this and you'll start getting mail offers from the casino you play at.

Some casinos may not register that you are there if you just use their mail offers. Let me give an example. You play 15 hours at Casino x, they think you dropped tens of thousands of dollars. Ask them for all kinds of free shit when you're there, and have a good time. Next month, Casino x sends you something in the mail saying "come get 4 nights in our presidential suite, $1000 at the steakhouse, a Rolex watch and $500 cash" (purely an example). At SOME casinos, if you don't actually use your player's card to gamble, it doesn't register that you went there, used that offer, and stiffed them. So, once a month you hit Casino X, do not gamble at all or use your player's card, and the offers will keep coming. PM me and I can tell you a few casinos you can do this.

ilikebtmoney said: #1. I'm not positive on this, but Casino Royale was the only casino I found doing 100x odds on craps. And they only do this on one table as well. It's not exactly the nicest casino but if you bet like a whale (there it wouldn't take much) I guess you could get some comps but this isn't exactly the Wynn, but it is a lot of fun there. The same people have always worked there over the past few years and most of them are a lot of fun unlike the stuck up casino's.



I believe all of the Horseshoe (Harrah's) casinos have 100x odds. There's one in east Chicago, one by Louisville, another in Tunica, and I'm guessing that the ones in Bossier City and Council Bluffs all have 100x odds, although I haven't been to those.

Lots of places in Vegas have 20x odds, especially downtown.

oh haha now i see

Rajjeq said: motuwallet said: i mean if OP was for realz he could at least bet the farm on some GLD calls, that i would respect. it's not time for physical yet

Except he can't hide the options and slowly sell them off and use the money after declaring bankruptcy. He also can't buy options with a credit card. The point here is that as long as he is willing to commit bankruptcy fraud, the main thrust of tis strategy, he really can't lose. It's not really a gold play, it's a theft play with a gold play backdoor exit.


From a perspective of committing bankruptcy fraud, the question would be: is there a better way to commit it?

RushnRockt said: Rajjeq said: motuwallet said: i mean if OP was for realz he could at least bet the farm on some GLD calls, that i would respect. it's not time for physical yet

Except he can't hide the options and slowly sell them off and use the money after declaring bankruptcy. He also can't buy options with a credit card. The point here is that as long as he is willing to commit bankruptcy fraud, the main thrust of tis strategy, he really can't lose. It's not really a gold play, it's a theft play with a gold play backdoor exit.


From a perspective of committing bankruptcy fraud, the question would be: is there a better way to commit it?


as a multinationals....my answer is hah.

Something else occurred to me. You can't buy casino chips with gold and silver rounds. Your story would be that you solf off the silver and gold to buy chips and then gambled it all away. Do you seriously expect a bankruptcy judge to let you go Chapter 7 without you providing proof of liquidation?

I'm beginning to doubt that the OP actually did this vs this being a fantasy ....

did we ever get the net price of the silver and gold purchases ??

boden11 said: I'm beginning to doubt that the OP actually did this vs this being a fantasy ....

did we ever get the net price of the silver and gold purchases ??


doubt this story? no way, lol

AU - $1448 per TO - 100 Units

AG - 27.20 per TO - 8600 Units - about 600 lbs.

All my payments have cleared and my first shipments have arrived.

When all is there, we need pics.

Delzy, do you have any other assets?

delzy said: AU - $1448 per TO - 100 Units

AG - 27.20 per TO - 8600 Units - about 600 lbs.

All my payments have cleared and my first shipments have arrived.

Hmm...a strange choice from the pure PM investor too.

You might have bought at the intermediate top, you're under water on both already.
Did you include in your price 4% premium? 4% is too high, you could have done better.

Then, the allocation: 150K in gold rounds and 234K in silver rounds - why, what's the rationale?
More silver that gold because you believe ratio will shrink? Maybe, but storing and selling of 100oz gold is much easier than 600 lbs of silver.

Then, you paid direct to gold bullion dealers online - very transparent, you should've hidden your tracks better.

Finally, why generic rounds instead of coins? Harder to liquidate to general public, most likely is sale back to dealers - with all the reporting involved.

Sorry, you get C- for the effort

"... 80% of my available credit"

You're leaving money on the table.

neophyte said: delzy said: AU - $1448 per TO - 100 Units

AG - 27.20 per TO - 8600 Units - about 600 lbs.

All my payments have cleared and my first shipments have arrived.

Hmm...a strange choice from the pure PM investor too.

You might have bought at the intermediate top, you're under water on both already.
Did you include in your price 4% premium? 4% is too high, you could have done better.

Then, the allocation: 150K in gold rounds and 234K in silver rounds - why, what's the rationale?
More silver that gold because you believe ratio will shrink? Maybe, but storing and selling of 100oz gold is much easier than 600 lbs of silver.

Then, you paid direct to gold bullion dealers online - very transparent, you should've hidden your tracks better.

Finally, why generic rounds instead of coins? Harder to liquidate to general public, most likely is sale back to dealers - with all the reporting involved.

Sorry, you get C- for the effort
Sorry. Next time I'll try harder to please you. I utilized 14 different dealers 8 online and 6 B&M. My costs listed are Net cost per unit average at my door. The mix allocation was primarily motivated by the possibility of gold confiscation (as has been done before). I don't put a lot of faith into the idea that the price ratio will return to what it was previously.

Why don't you tell me how I should have shopped out a over third of a million dollars in "coins" in a reasonable amount of time? Besides, the last thing in the world I would ever want to do is to try to is barter with the kind of people who fuss over numismatic values. Being stamped 1 troy ounce .999 silver from various well-known mints is good enough for me.

There's two kinds of people in this world - those that do and those that complain. I think the contrast is pretty obvious here.

Cheese fries are delicious.

wotus said: Dollar will remain in use, but five years from now will be worth 20% what it's worth today.As if you know.

wotus said: Dollar will remain in use, but five years from now will be worth 20% what it's worth today.

What are you willing to bet on it? IYHTA has made some drastic promises of this kind before and is now hiding in some dark corners of the internet, hopefully you'll have a better follow through

RushnRockt, my portfolio is 100% in ETFs that I believe will perform well as the dollar loses value.

I could put more money toward my bet, but I learned a while ago it's better to play with your own money, as opposed to borrowing it. At least if I lose it, I've lost my own cash, and I don't owe someone else. Takes the pressure off.

delzy said: There's two kinds of people in this world - those that do and those that complain. I think the contrast is pretty obvious here.

There's two kinds of people in this world - those who think there are two kinds of people and those who don't.

Anyone else who wants to contribute to this college application question -- there are two kinds of people in the world, what are they? -- feel free to chime in.

Also feel free to contribute any other particularly trite college application questions you may have come across.

"The Common Application is neither common nor an application. Discuss."

Since we're talking committing crimes for profit here, how about a thread on armed robbery on jewelry stores? Why split hairs? Some here seem to be giving him some form of legitimacy for being a criminal.

All this from a government conspiracy theorist, no less. Hypocrite much?

wotus said: RushnRockt, my portfolio is 100% in ETFs that I believe will perform well as the dollar loses value.

I could put more money toward my bet, but I learned a while ago it's better to play with your own money, as opposed to borrowing it. At least if I lose it, I've lost my own cash, and I don't owe someone else. Takes the pressure off.


Just yesterday you posted about how you're only making the minimum payments on $17k in CC debt so that you can pump more money into the market. How is that not playing with someone else's money?

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1043110/

Cheese fries.

delzy said: AU - $1448 per TO - 100 Units

AG - 27.20 per TO - 8600 Units - about 600 lbs.

All my payments have cleared and my first shipments have arrived.


And you say you bought these amounts with a credit card? What BS...

geebeebee said: Since we're talking committing crimes for profit here, how about a thread on armed robbery on jewelry stores? Why split hairs? Some here seem to be giving him some form of legitimacy for being a criminal.

All this from a government conspiracy theorist, no less. Hypocrite much?

Since OP feels the government is a conspiracy/evil, actions which are illegal do not have to be judged vis a vis how the government feels about them. I suspect in this worldview actions that are against the government would get some inherent "goodness points" because the government is "evil".

Not hypocritical, logical by conspiracy thinking. Just wondering if we'll ever see a CN47 style followup story when OP gets it for bankruptcy fraud (assuming the bankruptcy option happens).

kamalktk said: geebeebee said: Since we're talking committing crimes for profit here, how about a thread on armed robbery on jewelry stores? Why split hairs? Some here seem to be giving him some form of legitimacy for being a criminal.

All this from a government conspiracy theorist, no less. Hypocrite much?

Since OP feels the government is a conspiracy/evil, actions which are illegal do not have to be judged vis a vis how the government feels about them. I suspect in this worldview actions that are against the government would get some inherent "goodness points" because the government is "evil".

Not hypocritical, logical by conspiracy thinking. Just wondering if we'll ever see a CN47 style followup story when OP gets it for bankruptcy fraud (assuming the bankruptcy option happens).
Good point. Actually, the fact that delzy is doing this isn't surprising; what is surprising is the FWF faithful, usually chanting "Pay your bills, deadbeat" to some poor sap down on his luck, seemingly eating this up.

geebeebee said: kamalktk said: geebeebee said: Since we're talking committing crimes for profit here, how about a thread on armed robbery on jewelry stores? Why split hairs? Some here seem to be giving him some form of legitimacy for being a criminal.

All this from a government conspiracy theorist, no less. Hypocrite much?

Since OP feels the government is a conspiracy/evil, actions which are illegal do not have to be judged vis a vis how the government feels about them. I suspect in this worldview actions that are against the government would get some inherent "goodness points" because the government is "evil".

Not hypocritical, logical by conspiracy thinking. Just wondering if we'll ever see a CN47 style followup story when OP gets it for bankruptcy fraud (assuming the bankruptcy option happens).
Good point. Actually, the fact that delzy is doing this isn't surprising; what is surprising is the FWF faithful, usually chanting "Pay your bills, deadbeat" to some poor sap down on his luck, seemingly eating this up.


Who is? Plus most of us think that this is a troll post. If it is not OP needs some serious medication.

umcsom said: geebeebee said: Good point. Actually, the fact that delzy is doing this isn't surprising; what is surprising is the FWF faithful, usually chanting "Pay your bills, deadbeat" to some poor sap down on his luck, seemingly eating this up.

Who is? Plus most of us think that this is a troll post. If it is not OP needs some serious medication.
I, for one, don't think it's a troll post, but I could be wrong. Have you read delzy's rants in the past?

After knowing the OP for a couple of years via fWF, and understanding that he and I have been perma-bears (economy and housing market) for quite some time - and before it was fashionable among many FWF vets, and further knowing he is a charter member of the old AOR gang, I believe he did it and has the money - oops, credit - to do it. A digression: I still have over $300K in available credit after the credit cataclysm myself.

I thought he is single without kids which, while not of primary importance, does allow a man to go forth after his worldly passions with greater abandon than those of us with a wife and kids to answer to.

I also believe his instincts are in order. My issue is timing and THE VIG. He paid a premium for both the PM and the money. If he had done this via a low or 0 % AOR - with a spouse/friend/relative AOR ready in the wings to flip the debt to so to double your exposure time, his plan would be of significantly lower risk.

GOLD has not done its parabolic move yet and PM would seem - given the media, press, etc. - to be a sound call - even at these lofty levels. The country is in a frenzy on so many different levels right now and everyone is ready to overreact at the next calamity to befall us.

As many here has stated, the issue is not the gold call per se, its his lack of planning beyond the call. The high debt service cost, timing component, the weighing of risk-reward for destroying his credit future, his exit strategy (Bankruptcy as an exit strategy - thats a first??) etc.

With due respect to the OP, my biggest issue is that going all in and risking his personal credit (with BK his only answer) is just an amatuer play on both fronts.

If he had used FWF AOR strategies to build a business credit profile, and then bought some foreclosed property all under the guise of later embellishing the property and/or business value SOLELY as a front to fund his ulterior design to wager large amounts of cheese on PM, i would have respected his savvyness - He gets the money, at a low cost, gets the PM at a good value, and risks the credit rating of a shell LLC and NOT himself. Now he is playing like the big dogs and, if everything implodes, he will walk away with a perfect personal credit as he outfoxed the CCs by never making a personal guarantee.

Speaking from my personal experience, "All in" plays are novice moves that reek of desperation. The pros - and FWF vets - ususally just don't work this way.

I still think (half-seriously) that we should quantify the value of being a known whale at casinos. Even if he goes bankrupt, he could get free vacations for years until everyone figures out. None of this justifies the reckless abandon of his plan, but it is a variable to consider.

wordgirl said: I see only one flaw in the argument: The BK court is going to inquire very closely as to when, and how, that gold and silver was liquidated. Since the OP (evidently) intends to keep it, he's going to have a hard time proving he sold it to pay his gambling debts. The BK court isn't going to take the leap from "I had a comped suite at Caesar's Palace!" to "I sold all my gold and silver and gambled the proceeds away!" without demonstrating that he actually did sell it instead of stacking it in a safe-deposit box somewhere in Arizona.This is something that OP really needs to address. Aside from the general desperate sky-is-falling mentality that the whole PM hoarding and "Putting it all on the line in Vegas!" ideas are based on, the BK part is where it is really going to crumble apart here in the real world.

When the inevitable happens and you can no longer service the debt, you are screwed.

Even if you can make the gold/silver look like they were liquidated, no judge is going to take you at your word that you lost $375,000 cash in Vegas without documentation (and anyone who really did lose that much could easily provide documentation of it).

If you ask the casinos to vouch for your high-roller status, you are shooting yourself in the foot because all they will do is provide documentation that shows exactly how much you really DID lose.

This idea that being a "known high-roller in Vegas" is somehow going to fly in bankruptcy court as a sufficient explanation of where $375,000 in alleged cash went is insane.

I suppose the downside exit strategy depends on what kinds of records are kept about gambling losses by the casinos. Did you check this out, delzy? I must be chicken. All I'm doing in response to QE2 is get as much long term money at low interest as I can.

BuckarooBanzai said: wordgirl said: I see only one flaw in the argument: The BK court is going to inquire very closely as to when, and how, that gold and silver was liquidated. Since the OP (evidently) intends to keep it, he's going to have a hard time proving he sold it to pay his gambling debts. The BK court isn't going to take the leap from "I had a comped suite at Caesar's Palace!" to "I sold all my gold and silver and gambled the proceeds away!" without demonstrating that he actually did sell it instead of stacking it in a safe-deposit box somewhere in Arizona.This is something that OP really needs to address. Aside from the general desperate sky-is-falling mentality that the whole PM hoarding and "Putting it all on the line in Vegas!" ideas are based on, the BK part is where it is really going to crumble apart here in the real world.

When the inevitable happens and you can no longer service the debt, you are screwed.

Even if you can make the gold/silver look like they were liquidated, no judge is going to take you at your word that you lost $375,000 cash in Vegas without documentation (and anyone who really did lose that much could easily provide documentation of it).

If you ask the casinos to vouch for your high-roller status, you are shooting yourself in the foot because all they will do is provide documentation that shows exactly how much you really DID lose.

This idea that being a "known high-roller in Vegas" is somehow going to fly in bankruptcy court as a sufficient explanation of where $375,000 in alleged cash went is insane.
OK, kids, this isn't my first rodeo. I'm going to ask you a couple of questions and leave the answers up to you:

What is the typical percent of your credit line that is available as cash advance?

Where do you think I'll come up with the money to service my debt and finance my gambling junkets?

How long do you think it takes to lose $10k at a $25 MINIMUM craps table?

Have you ever known someone with a serious gambling problem?

How many gambling sessions at how many different casinos can one person pull off during a 3 or 5 day gambling binge?

How can a casino report the losses of an unrated player?

BTW, I'm planning on my investment being profitable and if anyone wants to meet up for a drink and discuss this at CES, PM me.

delzy said:

BTW, I'm planning on my investment being profitable and if anyone wants to meet up for a drink and discuss this at CES, PM me.


With, or without, the bankruptcy fraud?



Oh, and what is your plan to take delivery of this stuff without somebody figuring out what you're getting?
Are you picking it all up from PO boxes? Because otherwise, your real concern in all this should be the postal worker/courier figuring out that you've received at least a few hundred thousand dollars in PM that you're keeping in your house. That's where things REALLY go south.

arch8ngel said: Oh, and what is your plan to take delivery of this stuff without somebody figuring out what you're getting?
Are you picking it all up from PO boxes? Because otherwise, your real concern in all this should be the postal worker/courier figuring out that you've received at least a few hundred thousand dollars in PM that you're keeping in your house. That's where things REALLY go south.
I didn't realize that theft conspiracies were often perpetrated by delivery men. Thanks for the warning. I'll be sure not to leave my remaining parcels on my doorstep overnight and start investigating where I can keep my booty besides under my bed.

This thread is proof that paranoia can be a really bad thing. OP is convinced that the Gub is out to get him on a daily basis, so he finally snaps. Now he's possibly done something where the Gub WILL be out to get him.

delzy said: How can a casino report the losses of an unrated player?You've lost me here. First of all, a casino will not comp an unrated player so your dreams of free suites would be out the window with that one. Second, Earlier you seemed to imply that the point of the trips to Vegas would be to establish an alibi to later explain an imaginary $380,000 cash loss that would hide your PM hoard in the event that you cannot service your debt and have to declare bankruptcy.

If you intend to be an unrated player with no records of your huge "loss", what exactly are you going to provide as evidence to prove it to the satisfaction of the judge?

A BK judge has every right to ask for and expect you to provide specific documentation of an alleged 6-figure loss in Vegas simply because a loss that size by one individual normally WOULD be documented by the casino down to the last dollar.

Simply saying "I wasn't rated" is not going to fly. It doesn't do anything to prove the alleged loss, and it just raises more questions about what you were really up to in Vegas and why the casinos weren't rating someone playing at that level.

This would be like saying "I bought a Ferrari with the cash but I didn't tell the dealership my name, and I forgot to ask for a receipt. Also I never registered or insured it, and then it got stolen but I didn't report it to the police."

Try that one if they don't buy the Vegas story.

Buck, let me correct you here. I don't expect to explain an imaginary $380k cash loss. Second, casinos don't track winnings and losses at table games. They track rate and duration of play. Third, gambling in a manner worthy of a 12-step program does not occur at one place or one event.

Why must you attack something of which your understanding is so poor? Your analogy of the car purchase does not even relate. Besides all that, I don't think you even understand how a BK proceeding works. Do you think it is at all rare for gamblers and other addicts to file? How many people have documentation of the vices they spend years concealing from everyone around them?

delzy said: Buck, let me correct you here. I don't expect to explain an imaginary $380k cash loss. Second, casinos don't track winnings and losses at table games. They track rate and duration of play. Third, gambling in a manner worthy of a 12-step program does not occur at one place or one event.

Why must you attack something of which your understanding is so poor? Your analogy of the car purchase does not even relate. Besides all that, I don't think you even understand how a BK proceeding works. Do you think it is at all rare for gamblers and other addicts to file? How many people have documentation of the vices they spend years concealing from everyone around them?


There is a pretty big difference between your average gambler puttering around and losing money for years and then filing bankruptcy and someone pulling out $380k in PM and then liquidating and blowing it all in 18 months with no documentation. If the judge has any intelligence at all, I don't think it will fly. If I were a judge, I would insist on seeing something, bank statements, receipts on the gold/silver sales, something.



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