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delzy said: arch8ngel said: Oh, and what is your plan to take delivery of this stuff without somebody figuring out what you're getting?
Are you picking it all up from PO boxes? Because otherwise, your real concern in all this should be the postal worker/courier figuring out that you've received at least a few hundred thousand dollars in PM that you're keeping in your house. That's where things REALLY go south.
I didn't realize that theft conspiracies were often perpetrated by delivery men. Thanks for the warning. I'll be sure not to leave my remaining parcels on my doorstep overnight and start investigating where I can keep my booty besides under my bed.


So your plan is what? Get a safe deposit box? Seeing how paranoid you are, I highly doubt you're the type to do anything other than keep the goods in a hidden safe, or buried in a wall in the basement.

Neither is particularly effective if somebody knows you have the stuff in your house, and is willing to kill you and turn the place over to find it.


You obviously missed the story about the couple that was murdered in FL over a measly $100k that they kept in a safe.

delzy said: Buck, let me correct you here. I don't expect to explain an imaginary $380k cash loss. Second, casinos don't track winnings and losses at table games. They track rate and duration of play. Third, gambling in a manner worthy of a 12-step program does not occur at one place or one event.

Why must you attack something of which your understanding is so poor? Your analogy of the car purchase does not even relate. Besides all that, I don't think you even understand how a BK proceeding works. Do you think it is at all rare for gamblers and other addicts to file? How many people have documentation of the vices they spend years concealing from everyone around them?
I'll leave at this because it's not my intention to get into a personal argument and you have obviously already decided to proceed with your plan. I have nothing to benefit from your success or failure so I won't push the issue. The only thing I will add in my defense is that I do have some understanding of the casino part of the plan and can tell you for an absolute fact that casino player-rating software does track win/loss dollar amounts in addition to average bet and duration for table games play. I have seen such information first-hand.

This information is often provided upon request to players in the form of an annual win/loss statement, which is intended to be used as supporting documentation for gambling losses claimed to offset wins reported on W-2Gs. The IRS accepts these statements as proof of the loss.

If all goes the way you expect, this information will be moot anyway - good luck with your plan.

^^Buckaroo, I'm curious about this software. My win/loss statement from my last year's play at Harrah's was not accurate (not way off, but not correct). The statement itself says that it is not to be used for tax purposes. How could there possibly be a way to track a player's table play with precision?

I would say you are late, but on the other hand if people were not buying than the price would go down.

Thank you,

Why no platinum ?

Why no palladium ?

bigdaddycincinnati said: ^^Buckaroo, I'm curious about this software. My win/loss statement from my last year's play at Harrah's was not accurate (not way off, but not correct). The statement itself says that it is not to be used for tax purposes. How could there possibly be a way to track a player's table play with precision?

From my experience, back when I had a gambling problem, they do record how much you buy in and how much you cash out. The cash out part though was approximated. Of course if I lost everything or colored up before leaving, they would have a pretty accurate number. However, other things could happen such as putting chips in pocket or giving addict gf chips to play. Regardless, it'd be pretty hard to prove you lost 6 figs on table games without actually doing so.

Maybe you could learn optimal play on video poker, find some 100% payback machines, and rack up a few million in action on your players card. Do those players cards keep track of actual win/loss? I always thought it was just "points", but I don't know. Other option is to play both sides of games at various sportsbooks. You'll lose 10% of whatever amount you want to show losses of, but you'd have plenty of losing tickets to show as "proof".

Anyways, good luck. You got balls!

billmr said: I would say you are late, but on the other hand if people were not buying than the price would go down.

Thank you,

Why no platinum ?

Why no palladium ?


No gold pressed latinum?

"Nature decays, but latinum lasts forever."
- 102nd Rule of Acquisition (DS9: "The Jem'Hadar")

billmr said: I would say you are late, but on the other hand if people were not buying than the price would go down.

Thank you,

Why no platinum ?

Why no palladium ?

Because if shtf, people will look at those as say "wtf is this?".

"I would say you are late, but on the other hand if people were not buying than the price would go down."

You still don't get it, do you? It is never too late to committ bankruptcy fraud. Same can be said about swindling rich people with altheimers(sp?) or robbing a bank.

-

-

Speaking purely theoretically and for the sake of entertainment, not as actual advice to Delzy because I do not advocate doing anything fraudulent, dishonest or illegal, wouldn't a problem gambler just take out cash advances on his card in, uh, cash, rather than using the cash advance line to buy precious metal? And wouldn't cash cash advances play better in bankruptcy without the gambling alabi: "Your honor, I took out tens of thousands in cash, had some wild times I'm not proud of, and now it's all gone, and I really don't know what I spent half that money on, I was so messed up. There are a lot of pretty women around town with a lot of nice new things, I know that much." Get some videos of you making an ass of yourself drunk in a public place with two escorts on your arms, etc. There's one that no one can prove isn't true unless they spot you driving a Ferrari a few months later when you're unemployed or find your stash.

And, again, if shtf, people will want useful things, not shiny disks.

I'm wondering why the OP even went the route of purchasing PM if the plan is bankruptcy/gambling fraud. Couldn't you have just cash advanced your AOR and then 'gambled' it all away (as in not really) and then declared backruptcy after squirreling away your chips? If the plan is bankruptcy fraud why have both the huge gambling AND large purchases of metal -- won't this cause the judge to review the finances even more ?? The more I read this, the stupider I believe this plan was, especially because if the OP just wanted significant exposure to a large upside move in PM then options would have worked a LOT better with only 1% of the downside.

VanceWade said: Speaking purely theoretically and for the sake of entertainment, not as actual advice to Delzy because I do not advocate doing anything fraudulent, dishonest or illegal, wouldn't a problem gambler just take out cash advances on his card in, uh, cash, rather than using the cash advance line to buy precious metal? And wouldn't cash cash advances play better in bankruptcy without the gambling alabi:

Cramer said on his show last week that people should invest up to 20% (!) of their portfolio in gold. Personally, I think he just called the top.

Edit to add link: And Cramer thinks, even with gold at $1,400, that they should allocate 20 percent of their portfolio to it.

delzy said: Buck, let me correct you here. I don't expect to explain an imaginary $380k cash loss. Second, casinos don't track winnings and losses at table games. They track rate and duration of play. Third, gambling in a manner worthy of a 12-step program does not occur at one place or one event.



Casinos are required by law to track any cash-buy in of over $10k, and anything below that which is "suspicious". And if he plays rated they will keep win-loss statements, which can be manipulated in various ways to over or understate.

worm690 said:

Maybe you could learn optimal play on video poker, find some 100% payback machines, and rack up a few million in action on your players card. Do those players cards keep track of actual win/loss? I always thought it was just "points", but I don't know. Other option is to play both sides of games at various sportsbooks. You'll lose 10% of whatever amount you want to show losses of, but you'd have plenty of losing tickets to show as "proof".

Anyways, good luck. You got balls!


Unfortunately, there's no high denomination video poker that pays 100%+. Even at the $25 level it's hard to do better than full pay jacks-or-better (99.5%). I think there may be some high denomination games that are a bit better but with extremely high (40+) variance, like white hot aces or double double bonus.

And gambling machines will always keep accurate win-loss records. Even worse, if he hits a royal he'll have w-2g's to explain to a bankruptcy judge!

As far as sportsbetting, you could actually be on to something here. You wouldn't bet both sides until you had a a push available; that is, two books were offering lines so divergent that you could bet both sides and not lose anything. You would produce the losing tickets as evidence of a loss.

Again, I'm discussing this for shits and giggles, and I don't endorse fraud.

pics of the gold and silver?

Is it enough to fill a bathtub and go Scrooge McDuck?

BuckarooBanzai said:
This information is often provided upon request to players in the form of an annual win/loss statement, which is intended to be used as supporting documentation for gambling losses claimed to offset wins reported on W-2Gs. The IRS accepts these statements as proof of the loss.


No they don't.
http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/questions-and-answers/gambling/11...

Date and type of wager or wagering activity.
The name and address or location of the gambling establishment.
Names of other persons present during the gambling activity.
Amount won or lost.

calwatch said: BuckarooBanzai said:
This information is often provided upon request to players in the form of an annual win/loss statement, which is intended to be used as supporting documentation for gambling losses claimed to offset wins reported on W-2Gs. The IRS accepts these statements as proof of the loss.
No they don't.
Upon rereading what I wrote, I agree that the statement may have been misleading and is not entirely accurate as I wrote it, and I'd also like to mention I am not a tax professional so anyone following my advice does so at their own risk.

To clarify:

The tax code says that the anyone who claims a gambling loss deduction must be able to produce a personally-maintained "gambling diary" for the IRS to review in the event of an audit, and as mentioned earlier, Win/Loss statements are not considered official tax forms.

However there is more to it than that. From IRS.gov:

http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc419.html
"It is important to keep an accurate diary or similar record of your gambling winnings and losses. To deduct your losses, you must be able to provide receipts, tickets, statements or other records that show the amount of both your winnings and losses."

http://www.irs.gov/publications/p529/ar02.html
"Proof of winnings and losses. In addition to your diary, you should also have other documentation. You can generally prove your winnings and losses through Form W-2G, Certain Gambling Winnings, Form 5754, Statement by Person(s) Receiving Gambling Winnings, wagering tickets, canceled checks, substitute checks, credit records, bank withdrawals, and statements of actual winnings or payment slips provided to you by the gambling establishment."

In a real-world audit scenario, the IRS knows that someone could generate a diary whenever they wanted with whatever numbers they wanted. So while technically the diary is considered the official "proof" to support the deduction, in practice the IRS is going to be considering the Win/Loss statement or other third-party documentation as evidence of the diary's accuracy, and thereby indirectly using that as the ultimate proof of the loss.

At any rate, I apologize for taking the thread in this direction as we seem to be drifting further and further off-topic. This will be my last post in this thread unless I have further comments or questions specifically about the progress of Delzy's plan.

Delete

texasaustin said: Delete

After seeing the original in my email, glad you deleted this one.

BuckarooBanzai said: calwatch said: BuckarooBanzai said:
This information is often provided upon request to players in the form of an annual win/loss statement, which is intended to be used as supporting documentation for gambling losses claimed to offset wins reported on W-2Gs. The IRS accepts these statements as proof of the loss.
No they don't.
Upon rereading what I wrote, I agree that the statement may have been misleading and is not entirely accurate as I wrote it, and I'd also like to mention I am not a tax professional so anyone following my advice does so at their own risk.

To clarify:

The tax code says that the anyone who claims a gambling loss deduction must be able to produce a personally-maintained "gambling diary" for the IRS to review in the event of an audit, and as mentioned earlier, Win/Loss statements are not considered official tax forms.

However there is more to it than that. From IRS.gov:

http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc419.html
"It is important to keep an accurate diary or similar record of your gambling winnings and losses. To deduct your losses, you must be able to provide receipts, tickets, statements or other records that show the amount of both your winnings and losses."

http://www.irs.gov/publications/p529/ar02.html
"Proof of winnings and losses. In addition to your diary, you should also have other documentation. You can generally prove your winnings and losses through Form W-2G, Certain Gambling Winnings, Form 5754, Statement by Person(s) Receiving Gambling Winnings, wagering tickets, canceled checks, substitute checks, credit records, bank withdrawals, and statements of actual winnings or payment slips provided to you by the gambling establishment."

In a real-world audit scenario, the IRS knows that someone could generate a diary whenever they wanted with whatever numbers they wanted. So while technically the diary is considered the official "proof" to support the deduction, in practice the IRS is going to be considering the Win/Loss statement or other third-party documentation as evidence of the diary's accuracy, and thereby indirectly using that as the ultimate proof of the loss.

At any rate, I apologize for taking the thread in this direction as we seem to be drifting further and further off-topic. This will be my last post in this thread unless I have further comments or questions specifically about the progress of Delzy's plan.
I always like this type of humorous response to actual facts. The rule is a log book. I am well aware of the rule. Buck confuses his assumptions with the actual rules so his posts are just his misguided opinions.

kamalktk said: pics of the gold and silver?yep

pics with fwf screename in them, or it didnt happen.

The inventor or High Frequency Trading, Max Keiser is on Alex Jones Radio Show pimping his plan for 500 Dollar Silver. I could only be so lucky.

This forum is ridiculous. Anytime PM's are discussed there's rarely any quality discussion. OP's post is a joke. I have made a ton of money investing in gold & silver mining stocks over the past 18 months, and I'm very confident I will make much more. The joke is not on those who are prudently investing an appropriate amount of their portfolio into PM's.

nevus said: This forum is ridiculous. Anytime PM's are discussed there's rarely any quality discussion. OP's post is a joke. I have made a ton of money investing in gold & silver mining stocks over the past 18 months, and I'm very confident I will make much more. The joke is not on those who are prudently investing an appropriate amount of their portfolio into PM's.

Your post hardly raises the quality of the discussion, but we are all impressed with the size of your e-penis.

SnoopDoug said: nevus said: This forum is ridiculous. Anytime PM's are discussed there's rarely any quality discussion. OP's post is a joke. I have made a ton of money investing in gold & silver mining stocks over the past 18 months, and I'm very confident I will make much more. The joke is not on those who are prudently investing an appropriate amount of their portfolio into PM's.

Your post hardly raises the quality of the discussion, but we are all impressed with the size of your e-penis.



Making money is no joke to people who are really into making it.

nevus said: SnoopDoug said: nevus said: This forum is ridiculous. Anytime PM's are discussed there's rarely any quality discussion. OP's post is a joke. I have made a ton of money investing in gold & silver mining stocks over the past 18 months, and I'm very confident I will make much more. The joke is not on those who are prudently investing an appropriate amount of their portfolio into PM's.

Your post hardly raises the quality of the discussion, but we are all impressed with the size of your e-penis.



Making money is no joke to people who are really into making it.


I have to disagree with your OP, this has been a worthwhile discussion. Aside from the jokes about filing for bankruptcy, this topic has brought up a lot of concerns about the economy, even the ones blown out of proportion. I believe OP is for real, but I also would caution him because the more I hear people talk about PM, the more I see lambs going along with the leader to be slaughtered. I have not yet seen an exit strategy should his time line come in to play earlier than expected.

There are a lot of intelligent members of fatwallet chiming in on this thread, no matter how big of a joke you think the OP was. He would have to truly believe in the premise that lead to his decision, so much so he is backing it with, not HIS money, but his future as far as I can tell.

As for how well you have done in the silver and gold markets, leave that to impress 20 year old girls, it means nothing here.

SUCKISSTAPLES said: delzy said: Fanta said: Since you're going to Vegas anyway, you might as well take that $380k and put it all on red, and your chances of becoming rich are probably the same as doing this. On the plus side, you won't have to wait 18 months to find out the outcome.First off, I couldn't convert my credit to cash so I made purchases. Second the trips to Vegas are not for the purpose of winning, but for the purpose of becoming a known high-roller. This is my insurance policy should I go "broke" - I'll always have a room and a meal comped if you can read between the lines. Why wouldnt you just buy a $60k house outright in Vegas and put it in your mama's name?

Taking the "long slow gamble approach" was what CN47 did. If you are going to do this (and I dont recommend it)... Better just to put it all on the roulette table and know in ONE night whether youre a millionaire or broke. Get it over and done with, no 18 months of waiting and wondering.


People think the OP is a gambler, but how is this any different than taking out a HELOC on an interest-only non-recourse variable mortgaged 3-bedroom and investing the cash into financial stocks?

Oh, wait. There is a difference. Roulette tables and houses don't have printing presses.

talljay said: Cramer said on his show last week that people should invest up to 20% (!) of their portfolio in gold. Personally, I think he just called the top.

Edit to add link: And Cramer thinks, even with gold at $1,400, that they should allocate 20 percent of their portfolio to it.


Even a broken watch is right twice a day.

US Mint Reports Soaring November Month-To-Date Silver Coin Sales Surpass 2010 High Following Massive Rush Into Precious Metal

Good luck OP. I am in the process of liquidating 500ozt of physical silver that I acquired over the past 2 months.

Here's a good discussion on silver...

Beernuts82 said: US Mint Reports Soaring November Month-To-Date Silver Coin Sales Surpass 2010 High Following Massive Rush Into Precious Metal

Good luck OP. I am in the process of liquidating 500ozt of physical silver that I acquired over the past 2 months.


why oh why would you liquidate so soon after the effort of acquiring physical ...

motuwallet said: why oh why would you liquidate so soon after the effort of acquiring physical ... There's not much effort to it and a 30+% return in 2 months is good enough to take off the table until the next pullback IMO.

Beernuts82 said: US Mint Reports Soaring November Month-To-Date Silver Coin Sales Surpass 2010 High Following Massive Rush Into Precious Metal

Good luck OP. I am in the process of liquidating 500ozt of physical silver that I acquired over the past 2 months.
Seeing how December options just expired Friday I'd probably give the suppressed beach ball a couple days to pop up through the surface. Thanks for the wishes and congratulations on your investment.

TheMeliorist said: motuwallet said: why oh why would you liquidate so soon after the effort of acquiring physical ... There's not much effort to it and a 30+% return in 2 months is good enough to take off the table until the next pullback IMO.

And as impressive as it sounds, 500 ozt isn't very much silver.

Text

"The 1,000 ounce silver bullion bar is the standard industry unit and traditionally used for trading and storage, but can also be taken for personal delivery. Each bar is hallmarked to certify weight and purity. Actual weight can vary up to 10% in either direction. On personal deliveries, prices will be adjusted to actual weight."

emphasis mine. I don't think standard unit means what they think it means.

Why go all in for a buy and hold? I've been day trading gold futures for a little over a month and been doing quite well (up ~50% after fees). I do seem to get a little more out of my short trades though. But that could just be the way I'm trading.

jd1828 said: Why go all in for a buy and hold? I've been day trading gold futures
Probably for the same reason day trading anything is a bad idea. Yes, even with your 50% gain, still a bad idea.

kamalktk said: emphasis mine. I don't think standard unit means what they think it means. I'm not sure if you're picking nits or don't understand. I believe COMEX bars are poured from the silver contents of unknown purity scrap. It would add expense to separate silver into 1000oz bars exactly and have runoff that has to be rerun into later 1000oz bars. The same is true for machining bars plus that's obviously added expense and easier to counterfeit. Furthermore, it's simply not necessary since they are not sold for looks and are stamped (which can be easily verified). COMEX contracts are for 5000oz so you'll get 5 bars. The warehouse is supposed to group heavy bars with light ones so among 5 bars you end up as close to 5000oz as possible. If you don't like the bars they want to give you, you can either try to arrange something else (not likely succeeding) or just take the cash and buy silver elsewhere. Also, while I think COMEX has been a great play the last 10 years, if silver prices skyrocket dealers are going to want assay on those 1000oz bars while they still may let 10oz and poured 100oz bars fly because it suddenly becomes profitable to make very good counterfeits. Assay isn't expensive and won't increase much with silver (it will with energy which is correlated) but you never can prove if someone is cheating you in the process.



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