PMA / Wellstrade changes

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The Wellstrade/PMA combo made waves a few years ago and quite a few FW members, including myself use them for their 100 free trades/year. I received a letter in the mail about upcoming changes to my Wellstrade account. It looks like they transition Wellstrade to a new software platform (sorely needed) but there are also some fee changes. For example trades in excess of the 100 free ones now will cost 8.95$ rather than the 5.95$ they did before. Anyways, I just wanted to throw out this one to make sure I did not miss something else. I like my current deal and I hope it basically stays the way it is.

Wellstrade PM thread (archived)

Welltrade announcement/ WFC website

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Your link seems to be valid for UT and other states. For my state (CA) the fee links to a different page:
CA PM Fee link

C... (more)

feuerball (Apr. 17, 2011 @ 6:20p) |

So there is a $60 annual fee if your balance is under $50,000 as of June 30, is this a new thing?

TonySpero (Apr. 18, 2011 @ 12:15a) |

I don't think that's true. https://www.wellsfargo.com/investing/styles/wt/com_fees/fees says this:

"Accounts linked to a... (more)

govenar (Apr. 18, 2011 @ 12:23a) |

Quick Summary is created and edited by users like you... Add FAQ's, Links and other Relevant Information by clicking the edit button in the lower right hand corner of this message.

I wonder how many people actually use all of those 100 free trades in a single year...

I use more than 100 trades every year since I got in this deal in 2007. 100 trades is not that much if you like to trade in small chunks to cost average individual stocks. I use a little bit more than 100 trades each year. In my IRA account with Interactive brokers, I average ~ 300 trades annually. In taxable accounts, I try to restrain myself .

The announcement page that feuerball linked to has some fine print in note 5 that made me worry: "The PMA Package is free of the $30 monthly service fee for each month the statement-ending balances in qualifying deposit accounts, credit accounts (10% of outstanding eligible mortgages), and brokerage accounts (available through Wells Fargo Investments, LLC), total $25,000 or more. ... Accounts where you receive a statement from Wachovia, Wachovia Bank or Wachovia Bank, a division of Wells Fargo Bank, N.A., as well as Time Accounts with these companies and brokerage accounts offered by Wells Fargo Advisors, LLC and Wells Fargo Advisors Financial Network, LLC** do not qualify."

i.e., brokerage accounts at Wells Fargo Advisors, LLC, which is what our accounts are being transferred to, would no longer count towards the $25,000 qualifying balance to waive fees for PMA.

However, the "Welcome to Wells Fargo Advisors" guide that I received in the mail has different fine print on page 5: "PMA Package is free of the $30 monthly service fee for each month the statement-ending balances in qualifying deposit accounts, credit accounts (10% of outstanding eligible mortgages), and brokerage accounts (through Wells Fargo Advisors, LLC) total $25,000 or more" which sounds better. Though, it also says "Certain brokerage accounts are not eligible to be linked to your PMA Package. If your brokerage account cannot be linked to your PMA Package, the balance in the brokerage account does not count toward the qualifying PMA relationship and its benefits. To learn if your brokerage account can be linked to your Wells Fargo PMA Package, please contact us or your banker."

And page 6 of that guide says "If your WellsTrade accounts is linked to a Wells Fargo PMA Package, your account will continue to be linked and your balance will continue to be used to qualify for the PMA Package and its benefits."

So, I think this is probably nothing to worry about.

An interesting thing I saw in the "Upcoming changes to your WellsTrade account" letter I received in the mail: "If for any reason you do not accept these changes, please contact us by January 14, 2011, and there will be no fees charged to transfer your account to another broker-dealer. However, fees may apply if you transfer your account to another firm after that date."

i.e., if you want to close the account, this sounds like a way to avoid the $95 transfer/termination fee. (Though, many brokerages that you might transfer to will reimburse you for that fee anyway.)

Regarding the new software, one thing mentioned in the guide I got in the mail is Portfolio Tracker: "View 20-minute-delayed streaming quotes, news, and charts on your desktop". i.e., the thing they choose to brag about doesn't even have real-time quotes; I'm guessing that their new software is still crappy.

Weird I haven't received this. I'm in CA.

jkimcpa said:   Weird I haven't received this. I'm in CA.I'm in CA too. I just received the mail (snailmail) yesterday. You'll probably get it soon. Also, starting a few days ago, when I login to my brokerage account there's a box at the top of the page saying "Brokerage transfers and some trading will not be available online January 11-17. Find out which online services will not be available as we update the brokerage site and what you may need to do."

That worried me at first since it sounded like I wouldn't be able to trade stocks during those days; but clicking the link shows that it's not a big deal; it says stock trading will be unavailable online "Tuesday, January 11 (1 pm PT / 4 pm ET) to Wednesday, January 12 (morning)", i.e., when the market is closed anyway (though, the "morning" is kinda vague). But, mutual fund trading, options trading, and brokerage transfers will be unavailable for a few more days, "through Monday, January 17 (a market holiday)".

The letter in the mail says "For up to a week, you'll need the help of a phone agent to complete these transactions (during this period we will waive the Agent-Assisted charge; only the lower online trading commission will apply)."

govenar said:   The letter in the mail says "For up to a week, you'll need the help of a phone agent to complete these transactions (during this period we will waive the Agent-Assisted charge; only the lower online trading commission will apply)."

Does anyone know if this is lower as in free, or lower as in 8.95?

5 The PMA Package is free of the $30 monthly service fee for each month the statement-ending balances in qualifying deposit accounts, credit accounts (10% of outstanding eligible mortgages), and brokerage accounts (available through Wells Fargo Investments, LLC), total $25,000 or more. Deposit and loan products, including PMA Prime Checking account, offered by Wells Fargo Bank, N.A. Member FDIC.

The way I see it, balances in Brokerage accounts do count towards the 25k minimum. This is what distinguishes WFC PMA from BofA Brokerage requirements where only deposits count. If it comes to a point that brokerage balances don't count, I am gone, and I suspect many others as well.

feuerball said:   5 The PMA Package is free of the $30 monthly service fee for each month the statement-ending balances in qualifying deposit accounts, credit accounts (10% of outstanding eligible mortgages), and brokerage accounts (available through Wells Fargo Investments, LLC), total $25,000 or more. Deposit and loan products, including PMA Prime Checking account, offered by Wells Fargo Bank, N.A. Member FDIC.

The way I see it, balances in Brokerage accounts do count towards the 25k minimum. This is what distinguishes WFC PMA from BofA Brokerage requirements where only deposits count. If it comes to a point that brokerage balances don't count, I am gone, and I suspect many others as well.

Yeah, our brokerage accounts currently count towards the 25k. My point was that on that web page it specifically says brokerage accounts at Wells Fargo Investments qualify, while brokerage accounts at Wells Fargo Advisors do not; our accounts are currently at Wells Fargo Investments, but after the January changes, our accounts will be at Wells Fargo Advisors. But the fine print elsewhere sounds like our brokerage accounts will still count.

wellsfargo link in OP said: On January 1, 2011, we are consolidating Wells Fargo Investments, LLC into Wells Fargo Advisors, LLC. You’ll see the Wells Fargo Advisors name online starting January 15.

the PMA fee pages refer to "Investments" which will be replaced by "Advisors" starting Jan 1 ( see second sentence in the quote )

I haven't received a letter yet, but I'm definitely out, their update consists of 20 minute delayed quotes via desktop application? This from an online brokerage? One can get that from a widget.

I've had the PMA package for several years now. I was attracted because the free trades includes mutual funds, which are normally pretty expensive elsewhere. However, you need to have a checking account with the PMA package. Where I live there are no branches so the account is useless. I normally wouldn't mind except that every 11mo they mark my account as inactive since I don't use it, despite activities in other accounts, which causes you to lose access to PMA statements. Real pain.

balor124 said:   I've had the PMA package for several years now. I was attracted because the free trades includes mutual funds, which are normally pretty expensive elsewhere. However, you need to have a checking account with the PMA package. Where I live there are no branches so the account is useless. I normally wouldn't mind except that every 11mo they mark my account as inactive since I don't use it, despite activities in other accounts, which causes you to lose access to PMA statements. Real pain.Why not set up an automatic transfer in and out of that account? It should take care of that.

TonySpero said:   I haven't received a letter yet, but I'm definitely out, their update consists of 20 minute delayed quotes via desktop application? This from an online brokerage? One can get that from a widget.

Who cares about the desktop app? Same free 100 trades as before, and you can see real-time quotes on their trading platform. If you were already inclined to leave, then the change certainly provides a convenient, fee-free out. But I haven't seen anything to push anyone not otherwise inclined to leave to do so. I'm happy and staying put.

ACH transactions don't count as activity. Only deposits and withdrawals by mail or ATM.

balor124 said:   ACH transactions don't count as activity. Only deposits and withdrawals by mail or ATM.Your experience is different from mine.

TonySpero said:   I haven't received a letter yet, but I'm definitely out, their update consists of 20 minute delayed quotes via desktop application? This from an online brokerage? One can get that from a widget.

WF is definitely not for fast trading or day trading. If you have an IRA or you just buy and hold, reshift, etc, it's suffice. But I don't see what has really changed.

TonySpero said:   I haven't received a letter yet, but I'm definitely out, their update consists of 20 minute delayed quotes via desktop application? This from an online brokerage? One can get that from a widget.
livesoft at bogleheads said: All standard quotes are 20-min delayed right now. One must click on "real-time quote" to get a real-time (i.e. not 20 minute delayed) quote. Who cares about "streaming quotes" to your desktop? That is not the same as real-time level II quotes anyways.

jkimcpa said:   TonySpero said:   I haven't received a letter yet, but I'm definitely out, their update consists of 20 minute delayed quotes via desktop application? This from an online brokerage? One can get that from a widget.

WF is definitely not for fast trading or day trading. If you have an IRA or you just buy and hold, reshift, etc, it's suffice. But I don't see what has really changed.


Agreed. I came to the conclusion that the changes are probably irrelevant for most users. The 100 free trades remain, the platform itself will become somewhat better, but not much. Trades above the 100 free ones will cost more - 8.95$ rather than the 5.95$ it used to be. The reason for all this is that WFC probably want to consolidate their web platforms and save some costs.

It is and was a brokerage platform for cheapskates and this is just fine with me.

I am thinking about opening a PMA account.
From this discussion, seems like one can link brokerage account towards 25k PMA and gets 100 free trades/year.
Does it include IRA as well?
If I open regular brokerage account and IRA,do amount in both of these count towards 25k PMA to get monthly fee waived? If so, do I get 100 free trades for IRA account in addition of 100 free trades for regular brokerage account?

IamHector said:   I am thinking about opening a PMA account.
From this discussion, seems like one can link brokerage account towards 25k PMA and gets 100 free trades/year.
Does it include IRA as well?
If I open regular brokerage account and IRA,do amount in both of these count towards 25k PMA to get monthly fee waived? If so, do I get 100 free trades for IRA account in addition of 100 free trades for regular brokerage account?
Yes. Yes. Yes.

feuerball said:   jkimcpa said:   TonySpero said:   I haven't received a letter yet, but I'm definitely out, their update consists of 20 minute delayed quotes via desktop application? This from an online brokerage? One can get that from a widget.

WF is definitely not for fast trading or day trading. If you have an IRA or you just buy and hold, reshift, etc, it's suffice. But I don't see what has really changed.


Agreed. I came to the conclusion that the changes are probably irrelevant for most users. The 100 free trades remain, the platform itself will become somewhat better, but not much. Trades above the 100 free ones will cost more - 8.95$ rather than the 5.95$ it used to be. The reason for all this is that WFC probably want to consolidate their web platforms and save some costs.

It is and was a brokerage platform for cheapskates and this is just fine with me.


Made my first trade today, and got a confirmation from Wachovia. They must have inherited their system.

Transferred out, no fee.

When are we supposed to get access to our accounts again online?

jkimcpa said:   When are we supposed to get access to our accounts again online?

Looks like Tuesday (I think Monday is a market holiday anyway).

jetsfan92588 said:   jkimcpa said:   When are we supposed to get access to our accounts again online?

Looks like Tuesday (I think Monday is a market holiday anyway).


great, thanks.

How does Wellstrade stack up against Fidelity? I currently have my Roth IRA with Fidelity and the service seems to be fine. I was considering going to Vanguard but 100 free trades is tempting. As one of the posters said, I'm not concerned about timing.

Does Wellstrade offer the 100 free trades to any stock, etc, etc. on the market or is it with certain "family" of stocks?

Any stock.

jkimcpa said:   When are we supposed to get access to our accounts again online?I was able to login a few days ago (though today it's back to being unavailable). The new site seemed similar to the old one. The first time I logged in it had an option to view a tour of the new site. One new thing that sounded interesting was "One Stop": "With One Stop, you can view your Wells Fargo Advisors accounts and thousands of additional non-Wells Fargo accounts from one screen. Track your portfolio, loans, your lines of credit, and even your frequent flyer miles from one location. ... Track your payment due dates for all your online credit accounts ... View your email accounts". Maybe like Yodlee/Mint? (but I saw something saying One Stop isn't available until March).

Also "new features such as research and commentary from Wells Fargo Advisors, streaming quotes, additional alerts and more", "View Calendars of upcoming economic events, IPOs, and stock splits".

TonySpero said:   Any stock.

Hmmm, may be worth it. I was going to jump ship from Wells Fargo for banking but damn, can't beat 100 free trades.

govenar said:   One new thing that sounded interesting was "One Stop": "With One Stop, you can view your Wells Fargo Advisors accounts and thousands of additional non-Wells Fargo accounts from one screen. Track your portfolio, loans, your lines of credit, and even your frequent flyer miles from one location. ... Track your payment due dates for all your online credit accounts ... View your email accounts". Maybe like Yodlee/Mint? (but I saw something saying One Stop isn't available until March).

One Stop is Wachovia's name for the Yodlee system. They had it for all customers until about three years ago and then made it only avalable to brokerage customers. Those of you who have used Yodlee, BoA Portfolio, or Fidelity Full View have seen the system already.

specialmoose said:   TonySpero said:   Any stock.

Hmmm, may be worth it. I was going to jump ship from Wells Fargo for banking but damn, can't beat 100 free trades.


I don't think it includes pink sheet stocks.

Hello, Two quick questions:

1. Out of 100 free trades which comes with linking PMA with Wells Trade, can we buy IPO ? How if yes ?
2. Where to find the upcoming IPO in the Calender ? I tried but could not.

Thanks,
Vicky

vicky01 said:   1. Out of 100 free trades which comes with linking PMA with Wells Trade, can we buy IPO ?No.

Can we buy IPO at all through my WellsTrade account at any fee ?

vicky01 said:   Can we buy IPO at all through my WellsTrade account at any fee ?

The only way for you to get shares (known as an IPO allocation) is to have an account with one of the investment banks that is part of the underwriting syndicate. But don't expect to open an account with $1,000 and be showered with an allocation. You need to be a frequently trading client with a large account to get in on a hot IPO.

Bottom line, your chances of getting early shares in an IPO are slim to none unless you're on the inside. If you do get shares, it's probably because nobody else wants them. Granted, there are exceptions to every rule and it would be incorrect for us to say that it's impossible. Just keep in mind that the probability isn't high if you are a small investor.

Source: http://www.investopedia.com/university/ipo/ipo1.asp


Also if it's Facebook your waiting for:

Facebook IPO Will Not Be Offered to US Investors, Foreign Investors Only

Caused by SEC investigations, Goldman Sachs has limited its Facebook IPO offer to only foreign clients. SEC is investigating if reporting the IPO to the media was a violation of the ban on Promoting such offerings.

Fearing a repeat of the $550 million settlement resulting from an ealier SEC probe of Goldman Sachs practices, the investment bank decided to take the offering outside of SEC domain and not sell the IPO domestically.

Anything to do with Facebook is covered intensely by the media and it would be next to impossible for the IPO to not receive media coverage. Not selling Facebook to American clients is an unfortunate side effect of SEC vigilance.

http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=87506

For those more familiar with the rules, did Facebook actually violate any laws?

Thanks, So is WellsTrade part of Under writing syndicate you have mentioned ? Getting IPO and how much do you get it will of course will depend on several factors but first of all we need to have the proper a/c,

Well Facebook is one but I am not totally focused on that. Just looking for an a/c where I can buy when IPO comes. LinkedIn is another one which might come.

Skipping 54 Messages...
TonySpero said:   So there is a $60 annual fee if your balance is under $50,000 as of June 30, is this a new thing?
I don't think that's true. https://www.wellsfargo.com/investing/styles/wt/com_fees/fees says this:

"Accounts linked to a Wells Fargo® PMA® Package will qualify for fee waivers as follows:
* For standard brokerage Investment Accounts, IRA or Education Savings Accounts, annual fees will be waived."

(This was also mentioned in this thread about 20 posts ago...)



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