HARP 2.0 for >80% LTV and any TLTV

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*UPDATED 11/15/2011 to reflect HARP 2.0 changes made by FHFA/Fannie/Freddie*

Significant changes have been made, so if you have not done your HARP yet, you may need to read through the entire OP for all of the summarized information.

The HARP programs are the only "streamline" refinance programs currently available for homeowners who have ANY loan from Fannie or Freddie. The first mortgage can be of any LTV (typically above 80%, but can be less). HARP 2.0 removes the 125% LTV limit that has been in place. However, some lenders have their own refinance cap of 105%, 125%, etc. rather than allowing higher LTV loans.

The HARP 2.0 program will now end on 12/31/2013. This might be extended again later. However, the date of the original loan allowed to be refinanced HAS NOT CHANGED. Few additional eligible loans outside of LTV were allowed into the program.

If your LTV is over 125% or other circumstance where HARP 1.0 did not work for you, be patient. Most lenders will not take applications until sometime in Q1 2012 because the electronic systems for the loans will not be updated until late 2011.

Rates hit the lowest on record in both August 2011 and November 2011. Because there are rate penalties added for these loan products (depending on LTV and other circumstances), these loan programs are now the most attractive for many homeowners.

HARP loans are NOT modifications and are not for people who are in crisis (unable to make payments, unemployed, or other issue that would jeopardize their homeownership). HARP is designed for people with an array of credit scores who have been mostly current on their current mortgage. Credit score minimum is not as important as payment history on current mortgage.

This program does not apply to FHA loans.

Let's keep it simple first, you should consider a HARP refinance if the following is true:

-Loan is owned by Freddie (https://ww3.freddiemac.com/corporate/) or Fannie (http://www.fanniemae.com/loanlookup/)
-You have a CLTV or TLTV (that means your 1st and 2nd liens together) of more than 80%
-Your 1st mortgage can be of any value (there is no limit to TLTV for these programs)
-Your 2nd mortgage can be of any value (there is no limit to TLTV for these programs)
-You have primary, second, or investment property you want to refinance
-You have a bad ARM or balloon
-You do not qualify for either HAMP 31% of gross or the newer 24% of gross mod program
-You do not want to skip payments to get into the modification programs
-You have an average to excellent credit score
-You have not been late on more than 1 payment in the past year and none in the past six months on the current loans
-You do not want to do a full manual appraisal (but you can if it makes sense)
-You do not mind refinancing with your current lender (not a requirement)
-You are in good terms with your second lien lender (if any) and are making at least minimum payments
-You would not mind using an automated appraisal for the loan
-You have a fixed rate loan with a rate of 5.5 or higher (my opinion)

Do not go further until your property comes up at either website!

HARP 2.0 Program Details:
-You can only do a HARP once (since the loan being refinanced must have originally closed before 6/1/2009).
-I still recommend doing this only if you get at least a 1% drop
-You can drop into a lower term (10, 15, 20, and 25 are available)
-There will be closing costs, but in many states, they should not be unreasonably higher (definitely not the cheapest loan costs from a shopping around perspective)
-I would focus on getting the product as close to zero points (maybe a slight +/- partial point at the worse). Paying points in this environment on a refi is usually not recommended.
-No cash-out
-You can do a full appraisal, but it is not recommended unless you have no other way to get to the right LTV threshold.
-There are five LTV thresholds I have seen: below 80, 80-95, 95-105, 105-125, and greater than 125. Thresholds mean the rate is effectively the same within the threshold and an appraisal would not be helpful unless it brings you down to the next lower threshold.
-If your LTV is above 105%, you will have 15, 20, 25, or 30 year options available.

It is possible to go to another lender and ask them to do a HARP for you (called Open Access), but there are some serious difficulties including:
-You have to do a full appraisal
-Underwriting WILL be more complex
-You may have limitations in over 105% or 125% products
-They may have a problem funding your loan due to limitations for securitization

Here is Fannie Mae's product for HARP (Refi Plus or DU Refi Plus):
https://www.efanniemae.com/sf/mha/mharefi/

If you have a loan owned by Fannie:
-Property can be for sale
-Can remove/add a borrower from loan via process
-LPMI loans must be done via same-servicer (no open access)
-Your 1st loan can have any LTV (no minimum or maximum)
-Your 2nd loan can be of any amount as well (1st loan + 2nd loan / home value is CLTV), any CLTV
-If your LTV is over 105%, you cannot refinance into a new ARM nor new term over 30 years.
-You must have had no late payments in the past six months and only up to one late in months 7-12 on your mortgage
-There is NO waiting period if you have a previous bankruptcy or foreclosure.
-If you are doing a HARP refi where your P+I goes up by more than 20%, full credit, DTI, and verifications of income/assets will occur (basically the word streamline is removed)
-Occupancy can change and be done by same-servicer or open access

Here is Freddie Mac's product for HARP (Relief Refinance Mortgage):
http://www.freddiemac.com/sell/factsheets/relief_refi.html
Open Access HARP list (with LTV): http://www.freddiemac.com/avoidforeclosure/participating_lender_...

If you have a loan owned by Freddie:
-Can remove borrower
-Income source must be verified
-A specific product for under 80% LTV has been established
-Your 1st loan can have any LTV (no minimum or maximum)
-Your 2nd loan can be of any amount as well (1st loan + 2nd loan / home value is CLTV), any CLTV
-If your LTV is over 105%, you cannot refinance into a new ARM nor new term over 30 years.
-You must have had no late payments in the past six months and only up to one late in months 7-12 on your mortgage
-Does not appear to offer 10 or 25 year products
-Cannot go from fixed-rate to ARM
-If you are doing a HARP refi where your P+I goes up by more than 20%, full credit, DTI, and verifications of income/assets will occur (basically the word streamline is removed)
-Occupancy can change and be done by same-servicer or open access (NEW!)

I recommend calling your current servicer's refinance department and asking for a HARP rate quote for you loan first. If they give you any hassle, keep trying. You do not need to run credit until you like the rate/term offered.

If you have a FHA loan and are still reading this thread, here is a link to the FHA Streamline products available (note how they like to boast about their history of doing streamlines regardless of LTV):
http://portal.hud.gov/hudportal/HUD?src=/program_offices/housing...

Major problems that are likely to occur:
-Your current 2nd lien servicer/lender MUST subordinate to the new refinance. Typically, this is no different than the current lien setup, but it does give a second lien servicer a chance to be difficult. It would be possible for them to say no and then you either have to payoff/close the 2nd or no refinance soup for you. By the way, the payoff/close of the 2nd has to likely be done before the loan can even proceed (not done as part of the escrow closing).

-If you have a condo or other PUD type with a master insurance policy, you will likely need to have a certain percentage of building/dwelling personal coverage which may be higher than your current policy or you will need to get a policy. There is no way around this new requirement.

-If you have PMI, I hear there are sometimes problems with LPMI loans. However, you should be able to have a PMI loan that can be done in this program. Even if you current MI lender is basically out of the business, they will modify the certificate for this program regardless of new LTV.

If you are thinking that rates will stay low for a long time, you can ask for an ARM product rate quote in certain circumstances, they do exist for HARP loans, but are limited in choices.

Background
The number of HARP refinances is really terrible to date. According to FHFA, as of August 2011, the number of total HARP loans refinanced is about 900,000, but only about 72,000 loans with a LTV >105% have been refinanced. There have been almost 9 Million refinances for all Fannie and Freddie since HARP was available, so only 10% of total loan volume was these HARP target loans.

http://www.fhfa.gov/Default.aspx?Page=172 (see Foreclosure Prevention Reports)

I know the reason why the numbers are low is because servicers were really slow to get their qualification issue together, and I know that lenders were telling folks they were not eligible when in fact they were. These issues have been fixed now I believe. Also, the rate penalty (typically .5 to 1.5 off lowest weekly rate) made these not enough to justify the closing costs. Now, when you add these penalities to the lowest rates, rates are still rather decent compared to most loans done during the stated period.

Rasheed

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Lenders that you can go to outside your current servicer for HARP refinance:
AIM Loans: http://www.aimloan.com/homeaffordable/default.asp (open access servicer)
Quicken Loans: http://www.quickenloans.com/ (open access servicer)

Lenders that serve existing customers that offer HARP refinance for their own customers:

BofA: http://homeloanhelp.bankofamerica.com/en/home-affordable-refinance.html (only same servicer HARP, up to 105% LTV and apparently no non-owner occupied options)

GMAC: http://www.gmacmortgage.com/refinancing.html#tab=comparison

Wells Fargo: https://www.wellsfargo.com/mortgage/refinance/loans/descriptions/online
https://www.wellsfargo.com/homeassist/refinance

Chase: https://www.chase.com/online/Home-Refinance/mortgage-products.htm
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Somewhat off-topic, but could you provide more details (or a link) for this "newer 24% of gross mod program"?

Awesome post , I am calling my remaining rental lenders to do harp refi

rasheedb said:   
Major problems that are likely to occur:
-Your current 2nd lien servicer/lender MUST subordinate to the new refinance. Typically, this is no different than the current lien setup, but it does give a second lien servicer a chance to be difficult. It would be possible for them to say no and then you either have to payoff/close the 2nd or no refinance soup for you. By the way, the payoff/close of the 2nd has to likely be done before the loan can even proceed (not done as part of the escrow closing).

-If you have a condo or other PUD type with a master insurance policy, you will likely need to have a certain percentage of building/dwelling personal coverage which may be higher than your current policy or you will need to get a policy. There is no way around this new requirement.


Great Post!!! I ran into both of these difficulties when doing my HARP refinance. I ended up having to payoff the second but I really didnt push the issue (I didnt meet PenFeds subordination guidelines but never really checked if they would make an exception for me). I had to get personal coverage on insurance for my condo that I previously did not need. I think the biggest issue that will hold many people back is second mortgage lenders are unwilling to subordinate to a new first lien and the fact that many ppl are even well above the 125% limit.

I thought the property had to be your primary residence, is this a change? Also, I've been looking into it for my primary residence, does anyone have any reccomendations on a lender? I'm at ~110% LTV for a condo in CA with excellent credit. I could put in extra principal if needed to get to 105%.

psm321 said:   Somewhat off-topic, but could you provide more details (or a link) for this "newer 24% of gross mod program"?

Nothing concrete on the web, but it is an ALT MOD program provided by Fannie Mae. If you do not qualify for HAMP 31% because it will not help your situation, you might be consider for the 24% one. The incentives from HAMP are not in this alt mod program, and it does require the borrower to be significantly behind on payments.

The graduated interest rates, waiving late fees, etc. all seem similar to HAMP. I think the 24% is used when the gross income is not very helpful for determining household available income. This appears to apply to those who are self-employed or have significant expenses for income earned.

Rasheed

SCtrojan said:   I thought the property had to be your primary residence, is this a change? Also, I've been looking into it for my primary residence, does anyone have any reccomendations on a lender? I'm at ~110% LTV for a condo in CA with excellent credit. I could put in extra principal if needed to get to 105%.

No, it does not have to be primary residence. You can read all of the servicer/selling PDFs on the site and see every single detail on loan qualifications.

I would recommend calling current lender to at least get a rate quote. You did not say if you are Freddie Mac or Fannie Mae. There are not many lenders in each state that do these loans, so you could call them all if you really wanted to shop around. Freddie Mac lists their HARP list (noted in post).

This was mentioned in another FW HARP post after I put together my notes. Still useful too.
http://www.keaneloans.com/2009/12/18/homeowners-guide-to-harp/

Rasheed

The problem is idiot reps at your lender saying your not eligible or that it doesn't apply to rentals when it clearly does

You need to break past these idiots and find someone competent to push the right keys on their computer

I have always been told that the status had to be the same as when the house was originally purchased:
primary residence (original purchase) -> primary residence (refi) or investment (original purchase) -> investment (refi).
You can't switch between second home, primary residence, or investment.
I will continue to search for more information. Does anyone have concrete info?

Thanks for the great information. I have a 30 yr. 6 and 1/8 % Fannie Mae mortgage through Suntrust Bank. When I called, about 3 months ago, and inquired about the HARP refinance, they said I did not qualify for a streamlined mortgage and would have to get an appraisal. He said even though I qualified for HARP, Fannie Mae did not list my property as having the option for an automated appraisal. Is anyone aware of where I could get more information on this? Thanks in advance.

Thanks so much. I recently called the bank that owned my mortgage and they said I'm not eligible for refinance. I could easily save over a hundred dollars per month but property prices have dropped by 20K in my area since I bought in Aug 2010. Is HARP applicable only for pre June 2009 properties?

rawman1 said:   I have always been told that the status had to be the same as when the house was originally purchased:
primary residence (original purchase) -> primary residence (refi) or investment (original purchase) -> investment (refi).
You can't switch between second home, primary residence, or investment.
I will continue to search for more information. Does anyone have concrete info?


For Fannie, the answer is NO (no matter same servicer or open access).

See Q53 in this document:
https://www.efanniemae.com/sf/mha/mharefi/pdf/refinancefaqs.pdf

For Freddie, oddly, it is better to go with an open access lender (not same servicer) it seems:

http://www.freddiemac.com/learn/pdfs/uw/reliefrefi.pdf

For same servicer, they can do same to same or investment/secondary to primary.
For open access, they can do any occupancy change.

You do not indicate your LTV or Fannie or Freddie.

Rasheed

steveb10 said:   Thanks for the great information. I have a 30 yr. 6 and 1/8 % Fannie Mae mortgage through Suntrust Bank. When I called, about 3 months ago, and inquired about the HARP refinance, they said I did not qualify for a streamlined mortgage and would have to get an appraisal. He said even though I qualified for HARP, Fannie Mae did not list my property as having the option for an automated appraisal. Is anyone aware of where I could get more information on this? Thanks in advance.

Typically this would be due to something done wrong during the original loan package submission (may not be personally your fault) which has caused a flag to be raised. Based on your rate, assuming your LTV is below 125% even with the 'worse' appraisal, you should then consider other lenders since you are not getting the documentation advantage that your current servicer should be doing. Fannie Open Access is easier than Freddie.

Rasheed

NorthStar2020 said:   Thanks so much. I recently called the bank that owned my mortgage and they said I'm not eligible for refinance. I could easily save over a hundred dollars per month but property prices have dropped by 20K in my area since I bought in Aug 2010. Is HARP applicable only for pre June 2009 properties?

Yes, you purchased 'too late' to be considered for this program. You are likely waiting for new legislation that will allow any LTV refi. Even a one year extension of HARP next year would still put you too late (since it would then go to June 2010).

What is your current LTV? What was the LTV of your loan when you purchased? How did you go underwater so fast and on a so recent purchase (especially since underwriting was already so tough at that point when you bought)? Fannie or Freddie?

Rasheed

Hey Rasheed do you think that my low ltv (under 50 percent) is the reason they say I'm
Not eligible for harp ? Is the program only for loans above 80 % ltv?

SUCKISSTAPLES said:   Hey Rasheed do you think that my low ltv (under 50 percent) is the reason they say I'm
Not eligible for harp ? Is the program only for loans above 80 % ltv?


I am glad you ask that question. I am sure you have many reasons why you are finding it hard to use other normal refi programs and are looking for a program that does not have as much underwriting complexity.

Anyway, Freddie Mac says NO, there is no minimum LTV for Relief Refinance Mortgage.
http://www.freddiemac.com/sell/factsheets//relief_refi_faqs.html... Question 21.

Fannie is a bit more difficult to comprehend. I will just state that there are many places where it indicates 80% or less LTV on the HARP products. So, no, lender should not be balking.
https://www.efanniemae.com/sf/mha/mharefi/pdf/refiplusoptionsfac...
https://www.efanniemae.com/sf/mha/mharefi/pdf/refinancefaqs.pdf
You can call Fannie at 1-800-732-6643.

I would read this FAQ document completely, but there does not even have to be any loan value drop. I think the fact that this loan has no rules for TLTV makes it very attractive for many folks. I remember that for non-HARP refinance loans, if you had a HELOC, many lenders considered either the entire untapped potential LOC or some percentage of the untapped LOC toward the 80% max LTV which was hard to deal with from my experience.

Anyway, lender should not be giving you the cold shoulder for lower LTV. See my notes about investment property though if they did not originate as investment property in a previous reply.

Rasheed

Quick question:

I have a FHA, 4.375% 30 year fixed, LTV is about 91%. Closed before 6/1/09.

I pay PMI etc obviously.

Does this HARP get rid of PMI somehow?

Think this is something worth my time/effort?

Id love to get in on this

It looks like no cash out though.
Is there any program for people that are current that took equity out of there house back when values were higher>?

I paid 109k for my house in 2006. I did a full gut rehab due to a fire and the home appraised for 209 in 2009 so i pulled out 60k in equity, I used it to buy rental properties which now i have 7

Fast forward to today i owe 158k on the house and its worth 163k as of a march appraisal that killed the refi i was trying to do.

Id love to refi that 60k out of the heloc its on because its variable into a fixed rate loan but it doesnt look like i have any options.

I have no lates

BofA had some HARP changes recently that became more stringent. Among other things, no more investment properties. That may be the issue SIS, since I think you've indicated a lot of your loans are with BofA. Under 80% LTV isn't a problem

SUCKISSTAPLES said:   Hey Rasheed do you think that my low ltv (under 50 percent) is the reason they say I'm
Not eligible for harp ? Is the program only for loans above 80 % ltv?


If you have the equity, then why would you even do a HARP loan? A conventional loan would be cheaper anyways.

Sounds like it's exactly up my alley if I'm reading this right. I always thought I'd be unable to do this as I was told no from BofA a while ago. My loan is ~$432k (with a 5.5 first, 6.5 balloon second), house value has been fluctuating from $420k to $440k according to Zillow which I have no idea if I should even pay attention to that. I'll give BofA a call and see what happens.

Mikezilla999 said:   Quick question:

I have a FHA, 4.375% 30 year fixed, LTV is about 91%. Closed before 6/1/09.

I pay PMI etc obviously.

Does this HARP get rid of PMI somehow?

Think this is something worth my time/effort?


Well, first the HARP stuff does not apply to you. You are looking to do a FHA streamline. Based on your LTV, it is possible, but I reallly do not think the rate will be much lower. Keep surfing the rates.

On FHA, the PMI does not go away if you have the high LTV.

Rasheed

ShaftSlinger said:   Id love to get in on this

It looks like no cash out though.
Is there any program for people that are current that took equity out of there house back when values were higher>?

I paid 109k for my house in 2006. I did a full gut rehab due to a fire and the home appraised for 209 in 2009 so i pulled out 60k in equity, I used it to buy rental properties which now i have 7

Fast forward to today i owe 158k on the house and its worth 163k as of a march appraisal that killed the refi i was trying to do.

Id love to refi that 60k out of the heloc its on because its variable into a fixed rate loan but it doesnt look like i have any options.

I have no lates


I am confused. What is the rate on the 1st note? If properly subordinated, you cannot change the 2nd lien in this program. Is it not worth it to try and save at least on the 1st note?

There maybe some 2nd note programs out there, but most of them appear to be for distressed modification situations.

Rasheed

The first is at 5.49% and the second is variable and currently 4.25%
I dont care to try and cut the first 5.49% as the goal is really for me to lock in the full amount as a fixed expense rather than worry about saving 50 /month My options for locking the 2nd into a fixed rate loan seem limited at this point. Its 60k which i could presumably pay down in 18 months if i really put my mind to it but id rather not have to scrimp by.

rasheedb said:   Mikezilla999 said:   Quick question:

I have a FHA, 4.375% 30 year fixed, LTV is about 91%. Closed before 6/1/09.

I pay PMI etc obviously.

Does this HARP get rid of PMI somehow?

Think this is something worth my time/effort?


Well, first the HARP stuff does not apply to you. You are looking to do a FHA streamline. Based on your LTV, it is possible, but I reallly do not think the rate will be much lower. Keep surfing the rates.

On FHA, the PMI does not go away if you have the high LTV.

Rasheed


FHA Mortgage Insurance rates have gone up significantly since his purchase. It wont make sense for you to refinance unless rates hit like low 3s on a 30 YR. Correct me if I am wrong but he will now have to pay the new MIP rates (as well as starting a new upfront MI payment minus the small refund). Good luck!

dsru said:   BofA had some HARP changes recently that became more stringent. Among other things, no more investment properties. That may be the issue SIS, since I think you've indicated a lot of your loans are with BofA. Under 80% LTV isn't a problem
No I had no problem doing harp with my bofa loans

It's my citinortgage loans the reps say are not eligible , they say there needs to be a "check box" on their screen and it's not checked on my loans ...these ppl have no clue they are just going by what their. Computer says

soxfan1 said:   SUCKISSTAPLES said:   Hey Rasheed do you think that my low ltv (under 50 percent) is the reason they say I'm
Not eligible for harp ? Is the program only for loans above 80 % ltv?


If you have the equity, then why would you even do a HARP loan? A conventional loan would be cheaper anyways.

You try getting a no income doc rental loan with no appraisal these days

rasheedb,

Thanks for the information and links. Several loans officers erroneously have said that the occupancy type can't change to participate in HARP. According to the Freddie Relief document that you linked, that was not true. Unless the change occurred after I was last told (about 3 months ago).

LTV is ~115. Loan is backed by Freddie. Occupancy changed from owner-occupied to investment (work-related move). Current servicer is Wells at 5.875%.

A banker told me yesterday that he has heard of some people getting a lower interest rate by contacting with the servicer. It doesn't seem like that is going to happen for me at Wells.

The rub is to find a company via open access willing to refi an investment property with ~115 LTV.

I could pay on the principal to reduce the LTV to a workable number but that seems like a terrible idea.

Any suggestions?

rawman1 said:   rasheedb,

Thanks for the information and links. Several loans officers erroneously have said that the occupancy type can't change to participate in HARP. According to the Freddie Relief document that you linked, that was not true. Unless the change occurred after I was last told (about 3 months ago).

LTV is ~115. Loan is backed by Freddie. Occupancy changed from owner-occupied to investment (work-related move). Current servicer is Wells at 5.875%.

A banker told me yesterday that he has heard of some people getting a lower interest rate by contacting with the servicer. It doesn't seem like that is going to happen for me at Wells.

The rub is to find a company via open access willing to refi an investment property with ~115 LTV.

I could pay on the principal to reduce the LTV to a workable number but that seems like a terrible idea.

Any suggestions?


Here is my suggestion, this is just a guess.

1) Call Wells and ask for your Freddie Mac property ID. It should not be hard for them to get it. It should be in the same area of the system where they list who owns your loan. You could start the call to customer service with "who owns my loan Fannie or Freddie" and then ask them for the property ID assigned by Freddie Mac. This is not a requirement, but I think might help some misguided loan officers. Some credit reports also have it, but I forgot which ones do.

2) Find lender here for your state -- look for ones that have 125% next to the name (NOT 105%):
http://www.freddiemac.com/avoidforeclosure/participating_lender_... Some of them also list what they call the products in their company for this purpose (like their own name reference).

If any on the list have a wholesale or correspondent division, you might be able to get a broker to help.

Aim has rates on their website. Quicken and Suntrust have calls.

3) When you call the outside lender, say I would like to refinance my Freddie loan under the HARP Relief Refinance Program. I have the Freddie Mac property ID... This allows them to lookup the property and loan in Loan Prospector. This would tell an open access lender if they can do the refinance or not. Everything else is speculation. You can even ask them if were able to lookup the loan in Loan Prospector if they say no they cannot do it. http://www.loanprospector.com/

If you are really serious, you can read the Selling Guide on Freddie Mac's site that indicates how they determine if a loan is eligible for the Relief Refinance, but again you have to convince someone to quote you a rate.

Did you get turned down by all the lenders who do HARP 125% LTV on the Freddie site for your state? They should know what they are talking about.

If you mention what state you are in, I can google a bit for you on it to see if there is a broker who knows how to do it. (Basically Freddie Open Access <state id>.

I also agree about not paying down an underwater mortgage to get LTV down. Seems pretty silly to do.

Rasheed

Has anyone heard of any BoA FHA Short refis?

Is there a way to find out which lenders offer these loans if your loan is not with them?

It sounds like AIMloans.com can do them, but I know BOA will only do one if your loan is with them.

My lender is Chase, but they do not have the best rates. AIMloans has some decent rates, but I would like to be sure I could refi with them before applying.

I tried to Google DU Refi PLus to find out who can do them, but the results were mixed.

Thanks,

whoDean said:   Has anyone heard of any BoA FHA Short refis?

They do not have them.

rawman1 said:   rasheedb,

Thanks for the information and links. Several loans officers erroneously have said that the occupancy type can't change to participate in HARP. According to the Freddie Relief document that you linked, that was not true. Unless the change occurred after I was last told (about 3 months ago).

LTV is ~115. Loan is backed by Freddie. Occupancy changed from owner-occupied to investment (work-related move). Current servicer is Wells at 5.875%.

A banker told me yesterday that he has heard of some people getting a lower interest rate by contacting with the servicer. It doesn't seem like that is going to happen for me at Wells.

The rub is to find a company via open access willing to refi an investment property with ~115 LTV.

I could pay on the principal to reduce the LTV to a workable number but that seems like a terrible idea.

Any suggestions?


Keep in mind that just because Fannie or Freddie says it can be done does not mean a lender will do it. May lenders have overlays that they put in place to prevent what they feel is too risky or just something they prefer not to do.

Also, it is highly unlikely that a lender is telling you no because they do not want you to refinance. When you call to refi, a loan officer answers that gets paid when you refinance, not when they tell you no.

chocula said:   Is there a way to find out which lenders offer these loans if your loan is not with them?

It sounds like AIMloans.com can do them, but I know BOA will only do one if your loan is with them.

My lender is Chase, but they do not have the best rates. AIMloans has some decent rates, but I would like to be sure I could refi with them before applying.

I tried to Google DU Refi PLus to find out who can do them, but the results were mixed.

Thanks,


Seems like you are asking for Fannie HARP since you mention DU Refi Plus. You do not mention your LTV. My suggestion is to call any of the Freddie HARP open access lenders listed (link posted a few times now) -- they likely do the same LTV (105 or 125 max) for Fannie if they do Freddie. Coonsier the big guys like Quicken/Aim/Suntrust, but look at the smaller guys too available in some states. If you are below 105 LTV you obviously have many more choices than 125 LTV open lenders.

While I agree that your same lender may not have the best rates, you do have to look at a lot of factors including lower closing costs (no appraisal, potentially lower closing costs and escrow pad with same to same servicer transfer) and effectively assured closing in most cases once you can lock your rate.

Also, if other lenders are not charging you an upfront (except when it comes time to the appraisal), why not just apply to a bunch and see which one works best -- the credit hit at the same time should not hit more than 20 points I have read.

Most people in this situation (where HARP is the best option) will need to take the best option available knowing that it is not the best rate cut possible.

Remember, a new any LTV program may be around the corner. It likely will not be part of HARP/HAMP and you can do this again. The new proposal does not indicate a date limit (like this one) for the loan being refinanced.

Rasheed

rasheedb said:   chocula said:   Is there a way to find out which lenders offer these loans if your loan is not with them?

It sounds like AIMloans.com can do them, but I know BOA will only do one if your loan is with them.

My lender is Chase, but they do not have the best rates. AIMloans has some decent rates, but I would like to be sure I could refi with them before applying.

I tried to Google DU Refi PLus to find out who can do them, but the results were mixed.

Thanks,


Seems like you are asking for Fannie HARP since you mention DU Refi Plus. You do not mention your LTV. My suggestion is to call any of the Freddie HARP open access lenders listed (link posted a few times now) -- they likely do the same LTV (105 or 125 max) for Fannie if they do Freddie. Coonsier the big guys like Quicken/Aim/Suntrust, but look at the smaller guys too available in some states. If you are below 105 LTV you obviously have many more choices than 125 LTV open lenders.

While I agree that your same lender may not have the best rates, you do have to look at a lot of factors including lower closing costs (no appraisal, potentially lower closing costs and escrow pad with same to same servicer transfer) and effectively assured closing in most cases once you can lock your rate.

Also, if other lenders are not charging you an upfront (except when it comes time to the appraisal), why not just apply to a bunch and see which one works best -- the credit hit at the same time should not hit more than 20 points I have read.

Most people in this situation (where HARP is the best option) will need to take the best option available knowing that it is not the best rate cut possible.

Remember, a new any LTV program may be around the corner. It likely will not be part of HARP/HAMP and you can do this again. The new proposal does not indicate a date limit (like this one) for the loan being refinanced.

Rasheed


Thanks again. I am talking to QUicken, FirstIB and Century Point. I am going to call AIMLoans as well.

My LTV is around 100% and our scores are lower than I thought they would be.

rasheedb said:   On FHA, the PMI does not go away if you have the high LTV.Is there a reason you are conditioning this to FHA? I thought it was also true for HARP that if you already had PMI, HARP doesn't take it away (unless of course you're going below 80% LTV). I thought the only relevance with PMI was that you didn't have to pay it after a HARP refinance because of higher LTV if you didn't already have it before.

psm321 said:   rasheedb said:   On FHA, the PMI does not go away if you have the high LTV.Is there a reason you are conditioning this to FHA? I thought it was also true for HARP that if you already had PMI, HARP doesn't take it away (unless of course you're going below 80% LTV). I thought the only relevance with PMI was that you didn't have to pay it after a HARP refinance because of higher LTV if you didn't already have it before.

Yeah, the FHA mention is not relevant. Any first loan that had PMI and the LTV is still above 80% still requires PMI. If you do not use these "streamline refi" programs, you would be unlikely though to get the PMI redone on the refi I read.

Aside from not needing PMI if the 1st lien did not have it earlier, it is really the TLTV.

Frankly, I think the whole situation favors those who did piggyback loans, but it also favors those who stopped making their mortgage payments (ha!).

Rasheed

A bit of media today.

Remember, getting any new program to execution takes far longer than it should and there is no guarantee rates would make these programs attractive, but..high LTV refinancing attention is in the media again.

One funny note is they are basically looking at anyone with a rate of 4.5 has an opportunity to finance, but the lowest truly zero points loans are not much below 4.5 for 30 year. 15 or 10 year products do not really count because the payment might be too high to justify. I just stick to 1 percent rate reduction being good enough with normal closing costs.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/44269404
http://www.mortgagenewsdaily.com/channels/pipelinepress/08252011...

Rasheed

rasheedb,

Again, thanks for your help on this thread.

I called Wells to get the Freddie Mac ID. Unprompted, the Wells CSR informed me that my loan qualified for refi under HARP at a rate of 5%. This was only for primary residence. The CSR did not see the ID. There is an 18-digit number on the TransUnion and Experian credit reports. The TransUnion report had a 9-digit number on the line directly above the 18-digit number.

Some of the info on the FreddieMac website is inaccurate:
Neither AimLoans nor SunTrust makes loans in HI.
SunTrust does not make open access loans with LTV > 95%.
Quicken Loans makes loans in HI but hasn't received gov't approval to make open access loans which have PMI. My PMI company states that open access loans are okay but that the PMI amount remains unchanged.

Skipping 584 Messages...
Hello all. I am not one for rumors, but more than one source is talking about some VERY exciting HARP news coming soon.

HARP 3.0 is in the works and from what I am hearing may feature a host of changes including:
- opening the program to non-Fannie Mae and non-Freddie Mac homeowners
- extending the program's start date from May 2009 into 2011
- allowing the "Re-HARP" of an existing HARP home loan.

A HARP 3.0 bill is currently in committee in Congress. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac could wait for its passage, or release additional HARP updates on their own.
I will update as I know more.

Stay tuned;
-Adam
Old Hippy & Mortgage Pro



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