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Someone told me that I am being turned into the DEA and IRS for making a large cash deposit. I'm curious if this is really true and in reality have other people had any issues after making a large CASH deposit?

Background: My bank sent me a letter about opening a NEW savings account with new money (must be new money outside the bank, not a transfer, not a check from same bank). I went to one branch, withdrew 25K in cash (which was weird, it was much thicker than I thought since I never had that much cash ever in my hands!) then turned around and deposited it into the new savings account as new money later that day at a different branch. Both times they asked for my ID and a few other simple questions (address, dl#, and I think that is it).

Obviously, this is a legitimate transaction and I'm not a drug dealer but I was just curious how often honest people like me get questioned about this type of transaction? Anyone here have any experience in making large cash deposits?

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There's a difference between having a check for $55k vs having $55k in cash.

DiMAn0684 (Oct. 10, 2011 @ 10:47a) |

in my case the exact same questions were asked (by the computer) for the withdrawal and deposit. It was not more than 4... (more)

txbob603 (Oct. 10, 2011 @ 10:58a) |

I think you mean CTR, which are routine. A SAR is not, and is only triggered when the bank is suspicious about you.

The ... (more)

TravelerMSY (Oct. 10, 2011 @ 11:21a) |

Chase Savings account
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No. Don't worry about it.

txbob603 said:   Someone told me that I am being turned into the DEA and IRS for making a large cash deposit. I'm curious if this is really true and in reality have other people had any issues after making a large CASH deposit?

Background: My bank sent me a letter about opening a NEW savings account with new money (must be new money outside the bank, not a transfer, not a check from same bank). I went to one branch, withdrew 25K in cash (which was weird, it was much thicker than I thought since I never had that much cash ever in my hands!) then turned around and deposited it into the new savings account as new money later that day at a different branch. Both times they asked for my ID and a few other simple questions (address, dl#, and I think that is it).

Obviously, this is a legitimate transaction and I'm not a drug dealer but I was just curious how often honest people like me get questioned about this type of transaction? Anyone here have any experience in making large cash deposits?
You are more likely to have problems with the bank's internal security, for making multiple large transactions in multiple branches on the same day. A CTR was filed for each transaction, but the Feds/IRS/etc only care if the forms illustrate an ongoing pattern.

i move 25k all the time from high yield/reward checking bank to bank. don't worry about it

kloakndaggers said:   i move 25k all the time from high yield/reward checking bank to bank. don't worry about it

Do you do it by carrying a stack of $100's into the bank?

I do it with a black trash bag and a ski mask.

What would the DEA or IRS do to you?

Glitch99 said:   txbob603 said:   Someone told me that I am being turned into the DEA and IRS for making a large cash deposit. I'm curious if this is really true and in reality have other people had any issues after making a large CASH deposit?

Background: My bank sent me a letter about opening a NEW savings account with new money (must be new money outside the bank, not a transfer, not a check from same bank). I went to one branch, withdrew 25K in cash (which was weird, it was much thicker than I thought since I never had that much cash ever in my hands!) then turned around and deposited it into the new savings account as new money later that day at a different branch. Both times they asked for my ID and a few other simple questions (address, dl#, and I think that is it).

Obviously, this is a legitimate transaction and I'm not a drug dealer but I was just curious how often honest people like me get questioned about this type of transaction? Anyone here have any experience in making large cash deposits?
You are more likely to have problems with the bank's internal security, for making multiple large transactions in multiple branches on the same day. A CTR was filed for each transaction, but the Feds/IRS/etc only care if the forms illustrate an ongoing pattern.

Withdrawing 25k in cash and redepositing the cash in the same bank (even if a different branch) later that day --- there is a slight chance that the bank might deny you whatever account opening incentive they were offering.

Send him to federal pound me in the ass prison.

Not going to have a problem since you can prove the money just came from another account.

You aren't being apprehended for a large cash deposit, but banks automatically report certain cash transactions over $10k to the IRS.

see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_Secrecy_Act

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency_Transaction_Report

visorboy1974 said:   Not going to have a problem since you can prove the money just came from another account.
How do you do that? OP withdrew cash from one branch and deposit in another branch of same bank, on the same day. Can OP produce a 25k cash withdrawal receipt from another bank on or shortly before the day he made the deposit.

If you are paying your taxes and are not involved in anything shady then don't worry.

Kanosh said:   If you are paying your taxes and are not involved in anything shady then don't worry.

Never any issues with the IRS or DEA, but one more than one occasion when doing a refi, I've had to write a letter explaining large (25K-50K) transactions. It wasn't a big deal, but it held up the refi for a couple of days.

Chris.

OP, I have moved more than that in coin/bills, my pattern is larger and more repeated. I have never had a problem.

The bigger issue I would have with that strategy is receiving a counterfeit bill and then having them deny it when you go to deposit it. I have only ever seen two counterfeit notes in the wild and both times they were from a bank. First time I got burned, the second I caught it while I was still at the teller window.

It's not generally advisable to be carrying around $25,000 in cash for plenty of reasons. However, there's nothing wrong with having a CTR filed on you. In the extremely unlikely circumstance that the government shows up and wants to know where the money came from, your statement or withdrawal receipt showing the cash withdrawal should be more than enough. Of course, they're not going to show up unless they suspect you for other reasons.

If you ever have to do this again, don't attempt to break up your deposit into smaller chunks to avoid the $10,000 or greater CTR being filed, as it is illegal to do such a thing to avoid a CTR.

i'm pretty sure the best way to do it in this instance would have been to write a check.

I have to give you green for walking around with 25k in cash. I wouldn't be able to move with all the armaments I'd need to feel comfortable doing this. I think I'd rather have a cashiers check. 25K aint worth dying for, but it's definitely worth killing for. Come to think of it, I don't even go to craigslist transactions unarmed.

Regarding the cash deposit, agree with others that it's unlikely.

The government tracks deposits over 10K don't they?

dealseeker001 said:   The government tracks deposits over 10K don't they?
Yes, they use CTRs to do just that.

qcumber98 said:   I do it with a black trash bag and a ski mask.

Let me guess.. you were an absolute hit with the young ladies there?

jumblies said:   I have to give you green for walking around with 25k in cash. I wouldn't be able to move with all the armaments I'd need to feel comfortable doing this. I think I'd rather have a cashiers check. 25K aint worth dying for, but it's definitely worth killing for. Come to think of it, I don't even go to craigslist transactions unarmed.

Regarding the cash deposit, agree with others that it's unlikely.


Somehow, I can't picture going to purchase my dining room set from a 65 yr old couple with my 9mm concealed. WTF over?

My sister had a friend with a similar experience. While in the middle of buying a house, she was planning a vacation with several friends. In order to get a better deal, she booked and payed for all their flights on her credit card, and everyone reimbursed her. Well, half a dozen identical deposits in a short time, threw the mortgaging bank into a panic. It took her weeks of explaining to dozens of people, swearing she wasn't a drug dealer or something, and affidavits from everyone involved, to get her home loan back on track. And that was before the big mortgage crisis hit the fan. I'd hate to see what would happen now.


RAWR!
Disclaimer
Back in my bullion trading days I ended up buying a 1987 troy pound (yes pound) 24k gold Singapore tiger. The capsule was damaged so I popped that bad boy out of there. Got some kind of perverse pleasure from carrying it around everywhere I went. It was awesome. I miss that thing...

I wouldnt explain myself to anyone. Anything legal is none of their business. If they have issue let them prove it.

there is nothing to hide as long as you are doing nothing illegal. But I heard that IRS has records of every transactions that are at least $10k.

the someone who told you that is an idiot.

txbob603 said:   must be new money outside the bankI'd be more concerned that a 25k withdrawal+deposit from checking to savings would be disqualified as "new money" than worry about being accused of money laundering.

Banks are supposed to track down money laundering to avoid penalties from govt.
Your transaction get hi alert when you deposit money by cash. They will hunt down you if you avoid to provide ID.
In your case, you provided your ID and one time transaction. So they do not care.
In your case, i believe, the dept which deals with giving bonus/points treat that as new sales and the dept which deals with money laundering easily identifies as you transferrd money between accounts.

By the way if you do multiple deposits from different branches they will identify it.

megatard said:   txbob603 said:   must be new money outside the bankI'd be more concerned that a 25k withdrawal+deposit from checking to savings would be disqualified as "new money" than worry about being accused of money laundering.

The offer letter identifies "new money" as "new money not already on deposit with the institution or a check written outside the institution". It was someone in the bank that suggested I pull it out in cash to qualify.

Many of us have probably had CTRs or SARs filed on us from dollar coin shenanigans. I know I had a SAR once because a teller looked at me funny and started asking me all kinds of questions when I deposited a bunch of them. All the other tellers knew what was going on (more or less) and took them no problem - sometimes even without counting or unrolling them. Unless you're actually involved in drug dealing or money laundering, I wouldn't worry about it.

There are eight figures (that's right, eight figures) of CTRs each year. Typical government insanity, there just way too many reports to generate any proactive review. Unless you are generating dozens a year, you are not even a blip on the radar. CTRs are generally only used as part of investigations, initiated from other activities.

Most importantly, this whole thread is based on a false impression. It does NOT matter whether a >= 10K transaction is cash or a check, either are "cash instruments" and any will generate CTRs.

btuttle said:   There are eight figures (that's right, eight figures) of CTRs each year. Typical government insanity, there just way too many reports to generate any proactive review.
Really, you think hundreds of thousands of forms per year is not possible to analyze? You must be behind on technology.. An average Joe can get some off the shelf software to digitize them all and then this miniscule amount of data can be processed by your average smartphone in seconds.

IRS processes hundreds of millions of pages in a matter of weeks. You can be sure they have algorithms that look through data to find anomalies.

OP: Don't worry about it. Hopefully that "someone" didn't tell you to deposit $9990 next time to sidestep reporting requirements - because then you would in fact be breaking federal laws.

btuttle said:   
Most importantly, this whole thread is based on a false impression. It does NOT matter whether a >= 10K transaction is cash or a check, either are "cash instruments" and any will generate CTRs.
No, you are wrong. A CTR (Currency Transaction Report) shows only CURRENCY (U.S. and foreign) transactions. It does not include any kind of checks, wire transfers, or electronic transactions. Here is an actual copy of a CTR. Read the instructions that begin on page 3. (Casino version of the CTR)

Many people get confused because CTRs (notice the "C" stands for "currency" and not "cash") are to be filed only by banks and casinos. There is another confusingly similar form to be filed by other types of businesses (and not to be filed by banks and casinos)IRS Form 8300 Report of Cash Payments Over $10,000 Received in a Trade or Business (note that this form says "cash" and not "currency") where certain types of checks are to be considered cash. This basically includes checks that can be purchased anonymously like money orders and cashiers checks, but does not include checks drawn on a personal account. This form is NOT used by banks or casinos.

lastgaspjr said:   btuttle said:   
Most importantly, this whole thread is based on a false impression. It does NOT matter whether a >= 10K transaction is cash or a check, either are "cash instruments" and any will generate CTRs.
No, you are wrong. A CTR (Currency Transaction Report) shows only CURRENCY (U.S. and foreign) transactions. It does not include any kind of checks, wire transfers, or electronic transactions. Here is an actual copy of a CTR. Read the instructions that begin on page 3. (Casino version of the CTR)

Many people get confused because CTRs (notice the "C" stands for "currency" and not "cash") are to be filed only by banks and casinos. There is another confusingly similar form to be filed by other types of businesses (and not to be filed by banks and casinos)IRS Form 8300 Report of Cash Payments Over $10,000 Received in a Trade or Business (note that this form says "cash" and not "currency") where certain types of checks are to be considered cash. This basically includes checks that can be purchased anonymously like money orders and cashiers checks, but does not include checks drawn on a personal account. This form is NOT used by banks or casinos.

I don't dispute most of what you say, but when I've deposited a large amount of money orders at a bank, a CTR was generated. Or so I was told when I asked. (They requested some information from me to complete the form.)

Edit: Perhaps it wasn't a CTR, but some other type of record.

In my years on the Federal Public Defenders A Panel and there are two things you should be aware of:
1st
"(5) the term “monetary instruments” means
(i) coin or currency of the United States or of any other country, travelers’ checks, personal checks, bank checks, and money orders, or
(ii) investment securities or negotiable instruments, in bearer form or otherwise in such form that title thereto passes upon delivery; "

"(3) For purposes of this section, a transfer of funds from 1 place to another, by wire or any other means, shall constitute a single, continuing transaction. Any person who conducts (as that term is defined in subsection (c)(2)) any portion of the transaction may be charged in any district in which the transaction takes place. "

Any other means includes the purchase or sale of real property.

What have you done? Well you SSN has been entered in a data base(not once but twice withdrawal and deposit) by Treasury and your DIFF score for determining your probability of audit by jumped from .4% if you earn more than $250k per year to about 10%. Your telephone numbers possibly have been transferred to NSA for screening. Cell phones are not protected as land lines are by search warrant requirements(Supreme Court has just taken an appeal on warrantless GPS/Cellphone tracking). If you travel internationally you will be asked if you have cash to declare. IRS will do a look back and see if you have a reasonable source of legitimate income to have generated the cash. This is pretty much all done by computers. They are programed to look for anomalous situations like a restaurant owner who only deposited $9k cash in a year having $1.7 m in business. People do not understand how much has changed since 9/11 and with the power of today's computers.

2nd
What you better consider is 18 USC 1344 and 1346:

"Whoever knowingly executes, or attempts to execute, a scheme or artifice—
(2) to obtain any of the moneys, funds, credits, assets, securities, or other property owned by, or under the custody or control of, a financial institution, by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises; "

Extra interest qualifies. A transfer from Merrill Lynch to B of A is within the same institution. This type of transaction was covered in FIRREA in 1989 to curb "hot" money. "Representations" is the word that gets you on the jury instruction. You might want to take advantage of the safe harbor provisions and reverse the transaction before the bank discovers it. Take advantage of no harm no foul rules. This is a type of transaction that the FDIC examiners will look for in checking the internal controls of the bank. If you are in the Western District of Texas you could be one of my new clients except if you have that kind of cash they won't give you a court appointed attorney. You also get bonus points(extra time) at sentencing for more than minimal planning. This might be a candidate for Jay Leno's stupid criminals.

nsdp, you are almost giving a doomsday scenario to someone who is moving $25K from one bank account to another. Because the money was cashed out and deposited in cash form, the result is whatever reports are required, plus a CTR. It's highly unlikely this would even generate an SAR, but if so, a CTR and/or an SAR is hardly likely to bring down the wrath of the US government upon OP's head.

I've deposited significantly more then 25k in cash at one time, all in $100 bills before. Walked in with a backpack filled with stacks of 100s. Bank filled out a SAR and that was the end of it. The teller did ask if I always walked around with a backpack with $xxx all the time. LOL. If you did this on a regular basis (weekly/monthly) it might cause more then just an SAR being filled out. So don't worry about depositing 25k in cash.

If the bank filled out a SAR, you will never know about it (aside from guessing like JeebusSaves above).

Skipping 17 Messages...
I think you mean CTR, which are routine. A SAR is not, and is only triggered when the bank is suspicious about you.

The OP shouldn't worry about it. 25k is not a lot of cash in the whole scheme of things.



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