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I bank with Chase (checking w/DD, CC and car payment) and have for years -- maybe that's part of the problem).

In the past four months, we have had to deal with fraud services because of bogus charges on our Credit and Debit accounts (at least 4 total - including NEW replacement cards).

Crazy.

We don't keep the cards on file anywhere (except for our toll tag). We use the credit option instead of the PIN when using a debit card. We shred EVERYTHING. We check our accounts daily for charges (which is how we have caught some of the problems - the other ones were caught by chase).

The only good news is we haven't been liable for any of the charges.

Has anyone found any of the banks that have a more secure system than this? Or is this the new "normal"?

Should I be switching accounts every couple of years?

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The security in question here is that of our financial system, not Chase. Any other bank would expose you to the same risk of fraudulent charges. A European-style chip-and-PIN system will likely be the eventual solution to these woes in the U.S.

That having been said, I keep my cards on file everywhere and shred nothing. This probably has more to do with where you live/shop than the bank you do business with...

Why worry? If the charge is bogus just dispute. If they give you trouble then file a police report and you will win every-time.

I had problems with all 4 of my Chase debit cards from both business and personal accounts within 2 month period, also including newly sent replacement cards ( charge for 1300 at Bestbuy same week I activated it). I have a text message alert within seconds when card gets charged, so I called immediately and reported it. No liability, but what's annoying is that these funds get frozen during 2-3 day investigation and it might have caused my checks to bounce . Anyways, I stopped using debit cards altogether , now just use Sapphire credit, no problems so far, knock on wood...

Two of my accounts have been involved in fraud claims in the last year.

The most recent involved a sock drawer Chase CC hit for nearly $600 in three transactions within hours of one another. They alerted me and were able to prevent payment on two of the three. This card has been unused for years - it was an old BT AOR card actually, so no purchasing was ever done with it.

These were online transactions so one question is - how did they figure out the three digit verification code if the issuer doesn't even know it? That was something they expressly claimed not to have, pointing a finger of blame at the account holder, which is probably the real reason for that statement.

My WAG about who is behind such breaches: Chase employees or their appointed trustees.

It's an insider problem and not a retail problem. I've had AOR credit cards that I have never used be hit with fraudulent charges when they expired.

ajh5408 said:   The security in question here is that of our financial system...
Agreed. The business just see fraud as another fixed cost to be written off. It's just not enough to motivate change at this point.

After my first recent fraud experience, I've taken to removing the verification code from the back of my cards. I then replace it with another number which is related to the original - but which only I know how to reverse. This works great with ATM cards as well. Just write that four digit (alternative) number right on the back. Fun to think how a thief would think they had hit the jackpot, probably trying it a couple times or more before realizing that it's just wrong. >

money2011 said:   Why worry? If the charge is bogus just dispute. If they give you trouble then file a police report and you will win every-time.

I'm not worried. Just annoyed. It takes time to sit on the phone with the fraud folks when this isn't a problem that I've created. Lord knows I have to do that enough anyway.

babstexas said:   Has anyone found any of the banks that have a more secure system than this?

AMEX? Once, they alerted me of a bogus charge and then issued me a new account number. But sometimes they detect my charge as a false positive.

I can tell you that I get to see what happens behind the scenes on a lot of credit card systems. It's horrifying and a lot of companies just ignore PCI-DSS compliance all together or lie on the forms (although it's getting better). You really have to be careful who you do business with. It's not just a bad waiter or cashier at the store. It can easily be a poorly secured database or website. Those are bigger targets because they tend to contains lots of credit card numbers. It costs money to secure things properly and it's a place where many skimp.

For me, the best bet is to use a credit card online and whenever I go anywhere that doesn't have a proper security budget and record.

Even the best secured places can still have a breach so it's a good idea to never use your debit and only use a credit card.

qcumber98 said:   babstexas said:   Has anyone found any of the banks that have a more secure system than this?

AMEX? Once, they alerted me of a bogus charge and then issued me a new account number. But sometimes they detect my charge as a false positive.


For me they've dragged their feed when I notified them about a pending fraudulent charge. It also seems to be their policy to avoid the expense of issuing a new number until there are a few bad charges or the customer insists.

I got a Chase Amazon card a few years ago. When it hadn't arrived a few weeks after I signed up for it, I called Chase, and discovered that there was currently a balance on the card in excess of $18,000. Apparently, someone had intercepted my physical card in the mail, activated it, and used it at a bunch of jewelry stores in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. Chase was cooperative, and I obviously didn't have to pay. They changed my account number and sent me a new card.

So, I was surprised about six months later when the $18,000 in bogus charges re-appeared on my statement. Apparently, the original charges were never canceled, but were instead listed as "disputed." When six months went by without anyone at Chase logging a resolution to the dispute, their computers marked the dispute as resolved and put the charges back in my account. I was annoyed that Chase's solution was to once again require me to fill out a fraud report, identical to the one I had previously filled out. Fortunately, they reversed the charges, and I haven't had any trouble since.

It's hard to get too upset, though...I got my Amazon reward points both times. In other words, I got reward points as if I had spent $36,000 more than I had. I consider that fair compensation for all the fraud reports I had to do for them.

schop said:   qcumber98 said:   babstexas said:   Has anyone found any of the banks that have a more secure system than this?

AMEX? Once, they alerted me of a bogus charge and then issued me a new account number. But sometimes they detect my charge as a false positive.


For me they've dragged their feed when I notified them about a pending fraudulent charge. It also seems to be their policy to avoid the expense of issuing a new number until there are a few bad charges or the customer insists.


I didn't have to ask for a new account number. They insisted.



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