• Go to page :
  • 1 2
  • Text Only
Voting History
rated:
I got two traffic tickets in California last year. Attended 8 Hr. traffic school for the first ticket and got it dismissed. Traffic school option was not offered for the second ticket. So I decided to follow instructions in this thread to fight the ticket.


1. Sep 2010 - Got second ticket.
2. Oct 2010 - Requested extension and paid full bail amount
3. Jan 2011 - Requested court appearance date in June. Switched to AAA insurance for 1 year.
4. Jun 2011 - requested Trial By declaration.
5. Jul 2011 - Court sent out TBD forms which I did not receive. Court clerks sent out another set of forms and extended deadline to submit TBD.
6. Aug 2011 - Mailed TDB forms.
7. Oct 2011 - Court found me guilty (on all charges) but also offered me 12 Hr. traffic school option so I wonít get a point. I have option to request new trail within 20 days or I have up to December 2011 to complete 12 Hr. traffic school.

If I attend 12 Hr. traffic school, ticket will show as dismissed on my record and I will not get any point.

I read on internet that even though I donít get point, Insurance companies will figure out that I have received 2 traffic tickets in last 18 months and will raise insurance.
I called my AAA insurance agent who clearly said AAA will NOT increase insurance if there is no point on my DMV record.

Do you guys have any experience/knowledge how insurance companies handle this kind of dismissed ticket on DMV record? Does insurance goes up?

Member Summary
Most Recent Posts
My point is, the OP is trying to get a ticket dismissed, and it sounds like he wants to beat the system.

You offered a ... (more)

LAwoodtiger (Nov. 05, 2011 @ 10:31a) |

An update on delaying... My ticket that I got in August 2011, extended to just after Christmas, now with arraignment (da... (more)

calwatch (Dec. 23, 2011 @ 12:35a) |

Prosecutor offered me reduction to 49 in a 45 and no points. I took it since anything better was a crapshoot and unlikly... (more)

MikeR397 (Dec. 23, 2011 @ 3:40p) |

Thanks to UtahDealSeeker:

Someone had posted this on FWF a while ago and I had saved it in case I needed it:

----------------------
In California, you can request a trial by declaration on most vehicle code infractions. This is a perfect instance for that. The usual tricks are the following:

1. When you receive the ticket, note the expiration date, which is the date you must appear in court for an arraignment. It is NOT the date of the trial, or the date the officer shows up.
2. Between one week to the day of the arraignment, as shown on the ticket or on the reminder notice, request an extension. https://www.acgov.org/mvp_app/CitationServlet for citations in Alameda County (where Pleasanton is located). That gives you 60 days from the date you request the extension.
3. Prior to the 60 days being up, request a night court arraignment. Pleasanton has night court once a month, on the first Tuesday of the month. This should push you back another couple of months.
4. At night court arraignment, request trial by declaration when you see the judge. (If you can't make the arraignment, before the date of night court arraignment, ask the clerk to go for trial by declaration. Occasionally commissioners are stingy on giving TBD in person so asking a clerk a couple of days before arraignment may be better.) Be prepared to have the full amount of the fine available by cash or check (although most courts accept credit cards now).
5. Fill out the trial by declaration, and put down "I'm not guilty" (literally, just those three words, although if you want you can ask the court to find you not guilty "in the interest of justice" by pleading poverty). DO NOT try to describe why you are in the right. The officer sees that and those will be the points he will make extra-sure to cover at trial, should you go to this step (see below). Turn in the trial by declaration, in person to the clerk, the last day allowed (printed on the TBD form), or certified-mail it a week before the due date.
6. Wait for the officer to respond. Many times they are busy, can't remember, or get transferred. (If you do this correctly, you are now 6 months past the date of the incident.)
7. If the officer doesn't respond, you win and can expect a check back within 4-8 weeks. (Many times, local cops don't respond.) If he does respond, file for a "Trial de Novo" (the form is online), by the last day printed on the adjudication of the trial by declaration.
8. While filing the Trial de Novo, you can subpoena the officer's statement so that you have it in front of you prior to trial. (There are forms online for that.)
9. On the court date assigned, show up to court, and THEN plead your case.

This will drag out the process over 9 months from the date of the ticket. The longer the defendant drags it out, the more likely they will win their case.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for visiting FatWallet.com. Join for free to remove this ad.

Tbd is a joke and waste of time , in some counties it may work but in ca for
Most counties its useless. You will always be found guilty unless there is some clear error.

You then need to hope the cop doesn't show or didn't write a report , in some counties like san Francisco they often don't . But for example in san Mateo county they almost always do show. Or you'll get there and the court will reschedule if the cop is busy ,

Your current insurer won't raise your rates if you stay with them since no points will be on your record , but if you want to switch companies , yes they will see the level 2 school and know you've had 2 violations
And they may indeed surcharge for it.

OMG, just pay them their money and whatever happens happens. As if they really care if you learn a damn thing. how complicated life can be, if you want it to be.

Go for the new trial. Chances are you will get court date in March or April of 2012.
Meantime renew your insurance again for 1 year in January 2012.

If you lose in court, the DMV point will go away in one year (Sept 2013) anyway. So in worst case you will end up paying insurance surcharge for one year only.
Best case, you will win the case and get back your bail amount.

I did a TBD back in '04 in LA county (citation was in Inglewood). Was found guilty. Did trial de novo. Officer didn't show and case was dismissed.

The only thing I found missing in the quick summary was that you can make a request for discovery for the police report a couple weeks in advance of the trial de novo and hope that they do not reply to your request. If the cop doesn't show then the case is auto-dismissed. If the cop shows you can request a dismissal and/or a request of order to compel discovery and delay the trial yet again. The trick is to make sure you send the request for discovery to the right place.

I did this back in grad school when $400 was a big sum of money.

agreed, is this really worth your time? 12 hours of traffic school is a big commitment, and you have already spent a lot of time on this, I wouldn't do it unless the ticket was over $1k



JaxFL said:   OMG, just pay them their money and whatever happens happens. As if they really care if you learn a damn thing. how complicated life can be, if you want it to be.

But do try to not get any more tickets in the future...

Does California let you take 12-hour traffic school class over the internet?

vanrigt said:   agreed, is this really worth your time? 12 hours of traffic school is a big commitment, and you have already spent a lot of time on this, I wouldn't do it unless the ticket was over $1k



JaxFL said:   OMG, just pay them their money and whatever happens happens. As if they really care if you learn a damn thing. how complicated life can be, if you want it to be.


I have paid $400 in fine / bail. 12 Hr traffic school will cost me about $100 ($65 court fees + about $40 in class fees). Also my insurance might go up and total may go close to $1000

So far, I have spent only couple of hours on this. Everything was done over internet and I have not been to court yet.

lonestarguy said:   Does California let you take 12-hour traffic school class over the internet?

Probably not. Court sent me list of court approved traffic school, none of them offers 12 Hr internet class.

WesternDigital said:   lonestarguy said:   Does California let you take 12-hour traffic school class over the internet?

Probably not. Court sent me list of court approved traffic school, none of them offers 12 Hr internet class.


12-hour has to be in-person for LA County at least. Found a pretty cool guy who taught us the ins and outs of buying car insurance as well as how to get out of tickets. He had people in his class who had taken 12-hr traffic school 5-6x. I believe they might have closed that loophole now.

I had three tickets in 18 months in CA last year. Managed to wrangle 8-hr online once and in-person 12-hr twice. Decided to go the in-person court route, did the maximum extensions for the court dates.

Asked the judge to reduce fine and got all tickets pretty much halved on each occasion. It surprises me that people don't ask for a lower fine?? Most people were asking for payment extensions or arguing they were innocent.

All three tickets are listed at LA Superior Court's site as dismissed... insurance hasn't gone up. DMV record is clean.

WesternDigital said:   vanrigt said:   agreed, is this really worth your time? 12 hours of traffic school is a big commitment, and you have already spent a lot of time on this, I wouldn't do it unless the ticket was over $1k



JaxFL said:   OMG, just pay them their money and whatever happens happens. As if they really care if you learn a damn thing. how complicated life can be, if you want it to be.


I have paid $400 in fine / bail. 12 Hr traffic school will cost me about $100 ($65 court fees + about $40 in class fees). Also my insurance might go up and total may go close to $1000

So far, I have spent only couple of hours on this. Everything was done over internet and I have not been to court yet.


Simple, the higher your insurance rate goes, the lower you make your coverage. They can do as they want, and likewise you can alter your coverage.

Different state (WV). Here, insurance companies I have had (State Farm, Colonial, Geico) didn't care about the points, they only cared about the convictions. This was also a few years ago, maybe it's changed. I work very hard not to get tickets now.

kiasuchick said:   Asked the judge to reduce fine and got all tickets pretty much halved on each occasion. It surprises me that people don't ask for a lower fine?? Most people were asking for payment extensions or arguing they were innocent. All three tickets are listed at LA Superior Court's site as dismissed... insurance hasn't gone up. DMV record is clean.I thought that when you ask for a reduction of the fine you are also pleading guilty?

JaxFL said:   OMG, just pay them their money and whatever happens happens. As if they really care if you learn a damn thing. how complicated life can be, if you want it to be.

The title of the thread is, "my attempt to get traffic ticket dismissed."

WesternDigital said:   
I have paid $400 in fine / bail.

so what traffic violation was it that had you arrested and then had to bail out?

dukefanjohn said:   WesternDigital said:   
I have paid $400 in fine / bail.

so what traffic violation was it that had you arrested and then had to bail out?



In my case there was no physical arrest and bailout. Cop handed me ticket and I drove home.

The term bail is used on court papers for TBD. I think bail is just a court term for fine I paid up front while opting for TBD.

When cop stops you and writes you a ticket, you are technically arrested. If you are pleading not guilty and wish to go for court trial, you must pay the bail amount up front (usually same amount as the fine amount if found/pleading guilty).

LAwoodtiger said:   JaxFL said:   OMG, just pay them their money and whatever happens happens. As if they really care if you learn a damn thing. how complicated life can be, if you want it to be.

The title of the thread is, "my attempt to get traffic ticket dismissed."

and what should the op tell the judge? What legal angle should be played?

say what ? cop does not show and instead of case dismissed you are forced to come at other date ? is this state specific or uniform more or less ?

Also is the whole process (CA) state specific or valid elsewhere ?

Thanks!

SUCKISSTAPLES said:   
...
Or you'll get there and the court will reschedule if the cop is busy ,
...

If the cop is 'busy' then the case will be dismissed.

I would go to the courthouse and subpoena the documents that the police officer submitted. Take some time to decide after reading what he wrote. This might help you decide whether or not it is a worthwhile ticket to fight.

I'm not ignoring your questions about the insurance, I just don't know.

Thanks for the post. I've previously just used a "money back guarantee" lawyer who's done a pretty good job dismissing 2 of my tickets and one for my wife. There should be one such office in every major city.

I have beat two tickets at trial (where were baseless and the cop apologized) and one red-light ticket because of a procedural mistake the City of Los Angeles made.

Another friend got nailed dead-to-rights... but we appealed it and hit them with so much paper they just gave up and didn't bother opposing the appeal.

I always tell people that one of the few good things about being a lawyer is the fact that it is hard to give us tickets... that and the 5% discount on car insurance.

Crazytree said:   I have beat two tickets at trial (where were baseless and the cop apologized) and one red-light ticket because of a procedural mistake the City of Los Angeles made.

Another friend got nailed dead-to-rights... but we appealed it and hit them with so much paper they just gave up and didn't bother opposing the appeal.

I always tell people that one of the few good things about being a lawyer is the fact that it is hard to give us tickets... that and the 5% discount on car insurance.


That and if a lawyer tells you that you owe them money for services...you better just pay them. I spoke to a lawyer for 5 minutes on the phone and he told me to email him some contracts to look at and he would glance at them and let me know if he would be interested in taking my case. He said his rate was $250/hour and I could hire him hourly, or we could work out a fixed rate possibly and he would get in touch with me after I sent them. I sent them, and he replies two days later with a very basic paragraph of what he thought I should do (very little content) and then said, "I spent more than an hour on this, but I'll only charge for the hour. Please send a $250 check to the address below. It has been a pleasure serving you."

He knew my name, number, and could possibly find where I lived...I immediately thought, welp I lost this one.


Ironially, I'm headed to court tomorrow morning to fight a ticket I just got last week. Cop was sitting exactly 0.10 miles in from a 45mph zone and claims I was going 60 in a 45mph. My radar was going off with plenty alert, and I was not speeding. I'm aruing he read my speed while I was in the 55mph zone still and that if his radar read 60mph, it was not properly calibrated becuase my speedometer and GPS both read exactly 55mph in the 55mph and I properly slowed to 45mph when I entered that zone. I've got google earth shots showing the location he was sitting and the speed limit sign. That's the argument, not too hopeful besides him just not showing up, but it'll be fun .

MikeR397 said:   Ironially, I'm headed to court tomorrow morning to fight a ticket I just got last week. Cop was sitting exactly 0.10 miles in from a 45mph zone and claims I was going 60 in a 45mph. My radar was going off with plenty alert, and I was not speeding. I'm aruing he read my speed while I was in the 55mph zone still and that if his radar read 60mph, it was not properly calibrated becuase my speedometer and GPS both read exactly 55mph in the 55mph and I properly slowed to 45mph when I entered that zone. I've got google earth shots showing the location he was sitting and the speed limit sign. That's the argument, not too hopeful besides him just not showing up, but it'll be fun .

That's a good attitude to have. Let us know how it goes. Good luck.

MikeR397 said:   Ironially, I'm headed to court tomorrow morning to fight a ticket I just got last week. Cop was sitting exactly 0.10 miles in from a 45mph zone and claims I was going 60 in a 45mph. My radar was going off with plenty alert, and I was not speeding. I'm aruing he read my speed while I was in the 55mph zone still and that if his radar read 60mph, it was not properly calibrated becuase my speedometer and GPS both read exactly 55mph in the 55mph and I properly slowed to 45mph when I entered that zone. I've got google earth shots showing the location he was sitting and the speed limit sign. That's the argument, not too hopeful besides him just not showing up, but it'll be fun .


Although I am not a cop, I would be more likely to give a driver a ticket with a radar detector that is firmly planted on the dash. Why else would it be there? To impress the ladies?

You don't have to lie to us, you were speeding.

To the op:

It all depends on what your MVR says. You took the classes, did the class properly report this and take the violation off?

Your rate will not (should not) go up on the current term. When it renews (depending on the company) they may order a new MVR or they may not. Companies typically do not order a MVR mid term UNLESS there is a accident/paid claim, then a MVR will be ordered.

So the answer is....it depends.

"you win and can expect a check back within 4-8 weeks"

I won a 'no right turn on red' ticket .. 3 lanes, low sign blocked by traffic... by TBD

received letter Oct 5, San Mateo country ... no refund yet... fingers crossed, my son said he waited Forever for a return once.. any other experiences on refunds?

Last year I got a no turn on red ticket written by the LAPD. I ended up going the traffic school route. With the fine, at cost me over $600.

I wish I had a video camera running to film the cop as he stopped me and wrote the ticket. He was an absolute jerk, although I stopped and calmly let him write his ticket. When he walked over to my side of the car, he was immediately yelling at me like he was stopping me for fleeing a bank robbery. For a second I thought he was going to pull his gun on me. Totally unnerving and unprofessional. I now keep an inexpensive video camera with me. Next time this sh*t goes on YouTube.

theblenny said:   MikeR397 said:   Ironially, I'm headed to court tomorrow morning to fight a ticket I just got last week. Cop was sitting exactly 0.10 miles in from a 45mph zone and claims I was going 60 in a 45mph. My radar was going off with plenty alert, and I was not speeding. I'm aruing he read my speed while I was in the 55mph zone still and that if his radar read 60mph, it was not properly calibrated becuase my speedometer and GPS both read exactly 55mph in the 55mph and I properly slowed to 45mph when I entered that zone. I've got google earth shots showing the location he was sitting and the speed limit sign. That's the argument, not too hopeful besides him just not showing up, but it'll be fun .


Although I am not a cop, I would be more likely to give a driver a ticket with a radar detector that is firmly planted on the dash. Why else would it be there? To impress the ladies?

You don't have to lie to us, you were speeding.


That's cool. Personally if I was a cop I would give tickets based on whether the person actually broke the law, not on what toys they have on their dash. But every cop probably uses their own formula.

burgerwars said:   Last year I got a no turn on red ticket written by the LAPD. I ended up going the traffic school route. With the fine, at cost me over $600.

I wish I had a video camera running to film the cop as he stopped me and wrote the ticket. He was an absolute jerk, although I stopped and calmly let him write his ticket. When he walked over to my side of the car, he was immediately yelling at me like he was stopping me for fleeing a bank robbery. For a second I thought he was going to pull his gun on me. Totally unnerving and unprofessional. I now keep an inexpensive video camera with me. Next time this sh*t goes on YouTube.


Make sure the unreasonable enraged armed gentleman doesn't mistake the camera for a weapon, or you might not get a chance to put anything on youtube ever again...

NUIpIsqo said:   If the cop is 'busy' then the case will be dismissed.

I would go to the courthouse and subpoena the documents that the police officer submitted. Take some time to decide after reading what he wrote. This might help you decide whether or not it is a worthwhile ticket to fight.

I'm not ignoring your questions about the insurance, I just don't know.


I had an instance where the cop didnt show up - and sent a note to the judge who then rescheduled the case- no dismissal. It turns out they can do that if they are "servicing some emergency" or some crap excuse.

In general, the cops in our bay area cities (CA) dont have much work so they like to give tickets!

duplicate!

As the OP who shared this idea (which was in turn shared by me from others in the car enthusiast community who get tickets and refined with some reading of How To Fight Your Ticket in California by David Brown) - you can drag it out at leats a year. I talked to a co-worker who said that they are now scheduling arraignments in June, eight months from now. I recently dragged a ticket 13 months out until trial - ultimately I didn't show up to trial since I had stuff at work going on and it was more important than taking off the afternoon for a $180 ticket.

That is BS that they reschedule, though, if the cop shows up. I've never seen it happen in LA County.

theblenny said:   MikeR397 said:   Ironially, I'm headed to court tomorrow morning to fight a ticket I just got last week. Cop was sitting exactly 0.10 miles in from a 45mph zone and claims I was going 60 in a 45mph. My radar was going off with plenty alert, and I was not speeding. I'm aruing he read my speed while I was in the 55mph zone still and that if his radar read 60mph, it was not properly calibrated becuase my speedometer and GPS both read exactly 55mph in the 55mph and I properly slowed to 45mph when I entered that zone. I've got google earth shots showing the location he was sitting and the speed limit sign. That's the argument, not too hopeful besides him just not showing up, but it'll be fun .


Although I am not a cop, I would be more likely to give a driver a ticket with a radar detector that is firmly planted on the dash. Why else would it be there? To impress the ladies?

You don't have to lie to us, you were speeding.

I have three very fast cars and I speed all the time, usually get one ticket a year like clockwork, just not this time and generally not when my radar is blaring . That would just be foolish. I'm currently trying to find a way to tether my cars together for a 1,300 horsepower sleigh, but not there yet.

BTW, today was just the preliminary hearing and I plead not guilty. Waiting for a letter in the mail to see if they want to settle before trial, otherwise I'm happy to go and continue the good fight. I only have 2 pts on my license right now, so I'm hoping they'll offer to drop it with not reporting perhaps for just a small payoff, um, I mean fee.

naas said:   theblenny said:   MikeR397 said:   Ironially, I'm headed to court tomorrow morning to fight a ticket I just got last week. Cop was sitting exactly 0.10 miles in from a 45mph zone and claims I was going 60 in a 45mph. My radar was going off with plenty alert, and I was not speeding. I'm aruing he read my speed while I was in the 55mph zone still and that if his radar read 60mph, it was not properly calibrated becuase my speedometer and GPS both read exactly 55mph in the 55mph and I properly slowed to 45mph when I entered that zone. I've got google earth shots showing the location he was sitting and the speed limit sign. That's the argument, not too hopeful besides him just not showing up, but it'll be fun .


Although I am not a cop, I would be more likely to give a driver a ticket with a radar detector that is firmly planted on the dash. Why else would it be there? To impress the ladies?

You don't have to lie to us, you were speeding.


That's cool. Personally if I was a cop I would give tickets based on whether the person actually broke the law, not on what toys they have on their dash. But every cop probably uses their own formula.

I will say the cop that gave me a ticket was a nice guy and all, he was just wrong. It was night and my radar has cloaking (supposedly that is), so I doubt he knew I had a radar detector when he decided to pull me over. I also doubt he realized he was sitting so close to the change in speed sign. As I mentioned, he said "quarter mile" but it was exactly one tenth mile from him.

Radar's are perfectly legal in my state.

JaxFL said:   LAwoodtiger said:   JaxFL said:   OMG, just pay them their money and whatever happens happens. As if they really care if you learn a damn thing. how complicated life can be, if you want it to be.

The title of the thread is, "my attempt to get traffic ticket dismissed."

and what should the op tell the judge? What legal angle should be played?


My point is, the OP is trying to get a ticket dismissed, and it sounds like he wants to beat the system.

You offered a response that doesn't contribute to the solution he is trying to reach.

Lastly, you're question was, "what should the OP tell the judge, and what legal angle should be played?" Well, we don't know, and that's what we're trying to figure out...

An update on delaying... My ticket that I got in August 2011, extended to just after Christmas, now with arraignment (day court since that court does not have night court, but at least on a Friday that I have off) in August 2012. I'll request Trial by Dec, turn in my money in September 2012, turn in my form in October 2012, get my results in December 2012, do a motion for trial de novo in January 2013, and probably get a trial scheduled in March or April of 2013, 20 months after the date of the actual ticket.

I still maintain that the best way to win is by default, and not necessarily by challenging the system. SIS is right that it is unlikely to get you off but you have two bites at the apple with trial by dec and trial de novo. By pushing off the adjudication as far away as possible it greatly reduces the insurance hit and increases the chances that the cop retires, doesn't show up, misplaced his notes, etc. 18-20 months is a very long time. In FWF when someone gives you 0% BTs for 18 months with a capped fee we milk that to the greatest extent possible. This isn't any different.

Skipping 1 Messages...
MikeR397 said:   Ironially, I'm headed to court tomorrow morning to fight a ticket I just got last week. Cop was sitting exactly 0.10 miles in from a 45mph zone and claims I was going 60 in a 45mph. My radar was going off with plenty alert, and I was not speeding. I'm aruing he read my speed while I was in the 55mph zone still and that if his radar read 60mph, it was not properly calibrated becuase my speedometer and GPS both read exactly 55mph in the 55mph and I properly slowed to 45mph when I entered that zone. I've got google earth shots showing the location he was sitting and the speed limit sign. That's the argument, not too hopeful besides him just not showing up, but it'll be fun .Prosecutor offered me reduction to 49 in a 45 and no points. I took it since anything better was a crapshoot and unlikly and this court is very quick. Whatever.



Disclaimer: By providing links to other sites, FatWallet.com does not guarantee, approve or endorse the information or products available at these sites, nor does a link indicate any association with or endorsement by the linked site to FatWallet.com.

Thanks for visiting FatWallet.com. Join for free to remove this ad.

TRUSTe online privacy certification

While FatWallet makes every effort to post correct information, offers are subject to change without notice.
Some exclusions may apply based upon merchant policies.
© 1999-2014