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I'm new to the DFW area, but have heard about thee increased threat of hail damage to my roof. My roof is about 10 yrs old, but in good condition (just had everything inspected about 60 days ago)

I'm still grappling with the increase in my homeowners insurance (vs the $750/yr w/$500 ded I paid in OH). I have Farmers at ~2100/yr with 1% hail deductible, but am thinking about switching to Amica which would be ~$1100/yr, but have a 2% deductible (~300K house). Any odds makers out there that could venture a guess of me needing to make a roof claim before my breakeven period of 3 years? (all of this of course assumes I save the savings to self-insure)

Thanks!

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Obviously, in any given year, you could get pummeled, but it's not like you should expect to make claims real often. I've been a homeowner in DFW for 7 years, and made my first claim this year. The house had it's original roof from 1992, with no replacement noted by the seller (first owner) when we bought it. I think with a 3 year break even, changing is likely to come out in your favor. I'll also note that I've renewed my policy since making my claim and the premium didn't change by more than $50 for the year. So, it's probably a better financial decision to take the 2% deductible even if you have to make a claim within the next 3 years, so long as you can cover the increased deductible before the break even.

nic3456 said:   I'm new to the DFW area, but have heard about thee increased threat of hail damage to my roof. My roof is about 10 yrs old, but in good condition (just had everything inspected about 60 days ago)

I'm still grappling with the increase in my homeowners insurance (vs the $750/yr w/$500 ded I paid in OH). I have Farmers at ~2100/yr with 1% hail deductible, but am thinking about switching to Amica which would be ~$1100/yr, but have a 2% deductible (~300K house). Any odds makers out there that could venture a guess of me needing to make a roof claim before my breakeven period of 3 years? (all of this of course assumes I save the savings to self-insure)

Thanks!
well with these past storms here the last few months i have seen so many houses in the area getting new roofs so it's definitely possible it could happen again. I've lived in DFW area my whole life and there are hailstorms every year. It's up to you....if something happens do you really want to be paying $6,000 out of pocket vs. $3,000? Also, which area of DFW? northern city like Frisco? They usually get pounded with storms compared to a city located in southern part of DFW.

Thanks for the info - FYI I'm in the Flower Mound/Grapevine area

nic3456 said:   Thanks for the info - FYI I'm in the Flower Mound/Grapevine areaNP man. yeah it's up to you man. I just always watch closely when we get hail bc my truck barely fits in the garage so it stays outside unless bad weather and i notice that most of the bad weather seems to happen north of the metroplex.

many roofing companies try to work it where they repair your roof for that amount the insurance company will pay. The roofing companies have a way to save you the deductible and they do that to win your business. I'm not sure of the details as I've not done it before. I've only had folks tell me their roofs were replaced with no out of pocket. This might be a little harder to achieve with a higher the deductible as I'm assuming the roofing company eats the deductible.

nic3456 said:   Any odds makers out there that could venture a guess of me needing to make a roof claim before my breakeven period of 3 years?

You already have a pretty smart oddsmaker: the insurance company itself. They have calculated the actuarial premium of a 1% deductible vs. 2% at ~$1000 per year. Not all of the $1000 difference goes to cover actuarial risk; some of it is profit for the insurance company, agent commission, overhead, etc.

My rule of thumb with insurance is to go with as high a deductible as I can handle without having a dramatic impact on my financial situation. Actuarially, the odds are (almost) always in favor of the insurer.

If the extra $3000 would not wreck your financial situation, the 2% deductible is the way to go, statistically speaking.

If you can afford the higher deductible without any hardship then I'd go for the cheaper insurance with higher deductible. Amica is a good insurer to boot.

Here is a study that discusses frequency of hail: http://www.isws.illinois.edu/pubdoc/CR/ISWSCR2009-12.pdf

Looking at the maps on page 30 and 35 it looks like the Dallas area gets around 2 hail days /year average and that moderate size hailstones (big enough for property damage) fall during around 10-20% the storms. Hard to tell exactly looking at the maps.

So you might have a hail storm with big enough hail to cause damage every 5 years give or take, roughly speaking.

xit said:   many roofing companies try to work it where they repair your roof for that amount the insurance company will pay. The roofing companies have a way to save you the deductible and they do that to win your business. I'm not sure of the details as I've not done it before. I've only had folks tell me their roofs were replaced with no out of pocket. This might be a little harder to achieve with a higher the deductible as I'm assuming the roofing company eats the deductible.

I have had specific experience with this. I elected 2% deductible and this year my area was hit pretty hard (3-4 inches dia) with hail damaging our 50 yr presidential roof. The roofer was initially wavery with eating the whole deductible, but then agreed if I let him be the general contractor (he is licenced) for replacement of roof, gutters and paint.

With no leaks, I waited for the the demand to slow for these roofers before contacting one. This helped me better negotiate (got ridge vent upgrade and IR presidential roof for no additional cost to me). Having worked with my insurance company for other home owners, he even knew that the policy language allowed me for replacement of A/C unit with just fin damage to it.

Talk to your new neighbors, I'd bet they could tell you how often they get hit by hail.

xit said:   many roofing companies try to work it where they repair your roof for that amount the insurance company will pay. The roofing companies have a way to save you the deductible and they do that to win your business. I'm not sure of the details as I've not done it before. I've only had folks tell me their roofs were replaced with no out of pocket. This might be a little harder to achieve with a higher the deductible as I'm assuming the roofing company eats the deductible.

I am going through this right now. I have 1.5K deductible on 8.5K roof replacement. I talked to my roofer before the adjuster ever came out and he verbally told me to expect about 7K payout after deductible, and that he could do the whole job for that.
He never put it in a formal quote.

So, that's the game... never document the lower amount, and verbally agree on the lower payment with the homeowner. Technically, the difference is a bad debt write-off. Unless, of course, you accept that the verbal agreement was a contract, in which case it is insurance fraud.

Still, I'm getting a new 30-year roof for free.

OP, I think a lot of these roofers wouldn't blink at a 2K deductible or even higher. They want the business bad.

nic3456 said:   . My roof is about 10 yrs old, but in good condition (just had everything inspected about 60 days ago)

My roof - which is having 30-year shingles replaced after a recent hail storm - was about 15 years when I bought (3 years ago). According to my roofer, hail does more damage as shingles get older and more brittle. At 10 years, I expect yours will be starting to show less resiliance. And almost all of DFW will see at least light hail every year.

Still, labor here is cheap. There's guys lining up at the taqueria by my office to work roofing. (It's a lot nicer job in the cooler weather than it was a few months ago.) These roofers have lots of flexibility to swallow your deductible to earn your business.

In Texas your homeowners insurance can be cancelled after I believe 3 claims in 2 years or something like that. And replacement insurance maybe hard to get since there is an insurance claims database.

Therefore if you can afford it, you should take out the largest deductible you can conceivably afford since it would be foolish to make small homeowner's claims and risk a higher renewal premium or lose insurance altogether.

There is also a database that list troublesome homes claims so that losing insurability will prevent the sale of a home since mortgage writers would not touch it.

rpi1967 said:   In Texas your homeowners insurance can be cancelled after I believe 3 claims in 2 years or something like that. And replacement insurance maybe hard to get since there is an insurance claims database.

My understanding is that hail damage is a Catastrophe ("Act of God") claim, and generally is not chargeable. So, you should be fine with multiple hail claims unless your insurer gets spooked and pulls out of the whole area. (See this website: http://www.ampminsure.org/claims/about4518.html.

Also, I just learned from this article that "some areas of the nation's hail belt where homes have been reshingled two and three times during a 10-year period." Although, I don't really see that in DFW if you are using decent shingles.

That's right, Act of God events aren't a problem.

When we had our roof replaced due to insurance, the adjuster actually came out and found a lot more damage around the property (gutters, screens, etc.) That was more than enought to cover the deductible, upgraded shingles, and solar board. In addition, our roof replacement was WAY more expensive than expected (the original cedar shingles from 1916 were below three layers of asphalt shingle and it took them three days just to get the house ready to roof).

rmhop said:   nic3456 said:   Thanks for the info - FYI I'm in the Flower Mound/Grapevine areaNP man. yeah it's up to you man. I just always watch closely when we get hail bc my truck barely fits in the garage so it stays outside unless bad weather and i notice that most of the bad weather seems to happen north of the metroplex.

Dude, with all due respect, please stop spreading BS, non-scientific theories that hail storms prefer traveling on 635 vs. I-20 in the Metroplex. Storm patterns are not predictable within a 20-mile corridor. "Seems to" is usually the enemy of cold hard facts.

As others have mentioned, you can usually get 1% out of your roofer through an "advertisement agreement" (you might wonder why you see signs in the yards, even in areas where HOA normally prohibits!), so your deductable usually ends up being closer to 0%/1% out-of-pocket vs the official 1%/2% you mention. In fact, having a larger deductable might allow you more leverage to negotiate the 1% up a bit to a round number.

One other point, your hail claim can't affect your rates directly, but insurance can use aggregate data at the local/zip code level regardless if you file a claim.

teammjs said:   rmhop said:   nic3456 said:   Thanks for the info - FYI I'm in the Flower Mound/Grapevine areaNP man. yeah it's up to you man. I just always watch closely when we get hail bc my truck barely fits in the garage so it stays outside unless bad weather and i notice that most of the bad weather seems to happen north of the metroplex.

Dude, with all due respect, please stop spreading BS, non-scientific theories that hail storms prefer traveling on 635 vs. I-20 in the Metroplex. Storm patterns are not predictable within a 20-mile corridor. "Seems to" is usually the enemy of cold hard facts.

As others have mentioned, you can usually get 1% out of your roofer through an "advertisement agreement" (you might wonder why you see signs in the yards, even in areas where HOA normally prohibits!), so your deductable usually ends up being closer to 0%/1% out-of-pocket vs the official 1%/2% you mention. In fact, having a larger deductable might allow you more leverage to negotiate the 1% up a bit to a round number.

One other point, your hail claim can't affect your rates directly, but insurance can use aggregate data at the local/zip code level regardless if you file a claim.
how am i spreading BS? If you actually had a clue and watched the weather you'll see a trend that when it snows or hails it seems to happen more in the northern metroplex...but hey it's all BS and i'm lying!! jeez just trying to help someone out.

SnoopDoug said:   nic3456 said:   Any odds makers out there that could venture a guess of me needing to make a roof claim before my breakeven period of 3 years?

You already have a pretty smart oddsmaker: the insurance company itself. They have calculated the actuarial premium of a 1% deductible vs. 2% at ~$1000 per year. Not all of the $1000 difference goes to cover actuarial risk; some of it is profit for the insurance company, agent commission, overhead, etc.

My rule of thumb with insurance is to go with as high a deductible as I can handle without having a dramatic impact on my financial situation. Actuarially, the odds are (almost) always in favor of the insurer.

If the extra $3000 would not wreck your financial situation, the 2% deductible is the way to go, statistically speaking.


Add myself to the 2% group - It did lessen my annual premiums, but likewise I have a separate account that I keep those funds earmarked in, just in case. It would be limited fun not having the funds on hand should some dire need come up.

A little more relevant - In my neighborhood, 4 of the 10 houses on my portion of the street have received new roofs this month, and all are about the same age as my home (8-10yrs). I have not been through any hailstorms in the last 18mos I've been in the home, and I suspect I have an original roof (just a guess). If I could find a disinterested party, I'd take their a professional opinion on the shape its in but I'm not about to trust a roofer with a vested interest in selling another job, nor ask my new-to-me insurer to come check it out.

Geographically, I am NNW of Dallas about 30 miles, if it matters.

I think my plan for now is to stick with the 1% - once I get a new roof (probably in the next year or 2 given its age and local weather patterns) I'll switch to a 2%. Thanks for all the input.



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