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Hi. Wanted to discuss New York Energy deregulation.

As many of you know, there have been firms soliciting switching energy providers such as Energy Plus which often gives miles thru rewards programs or firms approaching customers trying to drum up business.

All these firms seem to have the opposite effect on the consumer, ie exist for profit of the business to grow with Multi Level Marketting tactics all the while the consumer winds up paying a higher price for energy.

In price shopping out the ESCO market for NY, I have only found 2 companies with fixed rate programs which were competitive:

Con Edison Solutions which is actually owned by the reregulated arm of the existing power company which offers a Fixed rate and renewable energy options so I wouldn't really call this competition.

And the other was Energetix, owned by Iberdrola USA which actually owns the upstate power companies Rochester Gas and Electric and NYSEG.

Con Edison Solutions gave a 9.1 cent fixed rate for 12 months while Energetix's offering is now 08.785 cents per kWh for 12 months fixed rate. Energetix's offering had a $35 cancellation fee if cancelled early, and gives a $25 new customer incentive after 8-10 months.

Looking at energy supply graph curves, it looks like energy prices are going down from the utilities for supply right now and its unclear if Energetix would be a favorable deal or not since one can't predict future market pricing.

Has anyone actually used Energetix as their energy supplier or are there other ESCO's in the market which I may have missed with could potentially have lower rates?

I am wondering if I should switch to Energetix next month and if other NY'ers follow suit if they to would see savings.

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Despite an increase in the number of electronic gadgets people have, the demand for electricity in this country is dropp... (more)

elektronic (Jun. 04, 2012 @ 4:51p) |

I haven't switched and won't as of now. All of the providers which own legitimate generation assets are coming in at hi... (more)

grex23 (Jun. 05, 2012 @ 4:13p) |

Folks, if you live in ConEd territory and want to save on your electric bill, don't monkey around with an ESCO.

Instead, ... (more)

Kanosh (Jun. 05, 2012 @ 7:24p) |

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Given that a fixed rate is covering a risk for you, it should be more expensive in the long run than an actual running rate.

At least that's what market theory says.

I currently have an ESCO for natural gas, and its on a variable rate plan. One of my big complaints with Con Ed is that once you sign up with an ESCO, there is no way to determine whether you are saving or losing money with the ESCO. Last month, I called Con Ed and asked what I would have paid that month with them. I called four times and got four different answers, varying by 20%!

Back when I lived in New Jersey, they printed a Price to Compare on your bill, making it really easy to find out what sort of deal you are getting from the ESCO. Con Ed does not do this. I've called the Public Service Commission and my state representative to complain, but I doubt that anything is going to change soon.

So the bottom line is that if you switch to an ESCO, you will never know if you have any savings.

That part is really hard to guess and is just a financial hedge on pricing. But that is really the only established competition here so with loads of ESCOs out there, so far only 1 appears to be competitive if one decided on the fixed pricing option.

I will see how price is next month before I decide as right now Im paying lower. Energetix is A+ rated by the BBB and a legitimate provider. The offering is tempting though.

Its a shame there isn't more real competition on fixed pricing options. With variable rates and deregulation there is no way to compare pricing at all. With energetix's fixed rate I can at least compare with the running supply rate from the last 12 months to get an idea.

grex23 said:   All these firms seem to have the opposite effect on the consumer, ie exist for profit of the business to grow with Multi Level Marketting tactics all the while the consumer winds up paying a higher price for energy.Same thing going on in Maryland with every scout troop, PTA, church, etc., trying to get its members swept up in some MLM scheme to purchase energy at a discount. Add the tugging at the heartstrings by most of these companies by touting their "green" energy, and you've got more misinformation than you can throw a stick at. In my research, the companies are able to offer a lower rate just long enough to lure in a new customer at which point no one pays any more attention to their bill (and how much more they are paying for power than if they had left well enough alone).

In the case of fixed rate pricing, that does not happen. Since your supply rate will be consistent across the board.

In the summer prices are always higher so if you consumed more in the summer Energetix seems to be an excellent deal. But I use the same amount year round so it isn't so clear cut for me.

I will wait till next month to make a decision. With a fixed supply cost of 7.5 to say 8 cents I would bite. At the existing rate, I will hold off to see if it goes down or not next month.

The rate from http://www.energetix.net is now 08.785 for 12 month fixed. It was higher and just fell a little bit. So I will hold off.

As far as paying more for green power options, this is opposite what should happen. You all get the same electricity, the idea is you want the utility firm to find cost efficiencies to keep the prices down and add the cheapest possible energy sources. We have loads of natural gas that is still yet unexplored.

grex23 said:   In the case of fixed rate pricing, that does not happen. Since your supply rate will be consistent across the board.In my area, people buy the fixed rate option from the alternative provider. Meanwhile, the primary provider market rates have gone down. People on the fixed rate option THINK they are saving money but the reality is that they just don't know any better.

As far as paying more for green power options, this is opposite what should happen.Tree huggers love to pay more for "green" initiatives. It makes them feel better. The irony is that most of these alternative energy providers don't make any power themselves anyway. The juice coming through the wires is all the same anyway.

dcwilbur said:   grex23 said:   In the case of fixed rate pricing, that does not happen. Since your supply rate will be consistent across the board.In my area, people buy the fixed rate option from the alternative provider. Meanwhile, the primary provider market rates have gone down. People on the fixed rate option THINK they are saving money but the reality is that they just don't know any better.

As far as paying more for green power options, this is opposite what should happen.Tree huggers love to pay more for "green" initiatives. It makes them feel better. The irony is that most of these alternative energy providers don't make any power themselves anyway. The juice coming through the wires is all the same anyway.


It depends on the fixed rate price. In my case the fixed price right now is competitive but not competitive enough because I don't use more energy in the summer. Considering my average was 9.5 last month, with the $25 new customer incentive the low fixed rate is very competitive.

If next month the fixed rate price down, and my supply price goes up then perhaps I will make the switch. I would rather switch the supplier forcing more competition in energy rates.

According to the PSC, 20% of customers use alternative providers for Residential for Con Edison as of August 2011. I believe strongly in deregulation. But the truth is many of that 20% are people who switched falling for the system as working and do wind up paying a higher rate. Others want the fixed pricing option and really shop the system like I did but many people just don't have the time. And some are tree huggers paying extra for green energy alternatives.

I switched to New York Energy Coopertative and have been happy. It's variable, but they track my provider to show what I would be paying and it seens accurate. I otherwise would be using RGE by default.

New York Energy Cooperative isn't available in Con Edison markets. The grid is all interconnected via the NY ISO and the like so essentially I am using the deregulated version of RGE to procure the energy on my behalf if they can provide a cheaper price.

http://www.ecny.org/electricity/ny_res_program.html

New York State Electric & Gas (approaching 5%)
•Rochester Gas & Electric (6-8%)

estimated savings.

Mine would be 9.58 minus 8.785

so .0795 savings for me (a little less than 1 cents per kw/h saved.

If I consumed a lot of electric it would add up.

In other states, competition is much better. In NY only 1 provider is cheaper, the others are all false promises and gimmicks.

When I lived in New York, I found that shifting to a time-of-day based tariff for electricity saved me considerable money. This is where they come out and put in a digital meter and you are charged less for electricity at night and during the winter and more during the daytime and summer. There was no need to switch to an ESCO, it is done directly thruogh ConEd.

The time of day rate can save you substantial money, IF you are able to do high-voltage tasks like washing clothes and dishes at nighttime and aren't around your place much during the day.

I have a seperate meter which is read monthly but I live in a highrise. Time of day really wouldn't work out too well.

Laundry equipment is in the basement, but I use about the same amount of electric during the summer and winter.

I don't know if the meter is digital or not however. There is a meter room.

Just did the analysis and I wouldn't benefit from time of day pricing.

bluechalk said:   I currently have an ESCO for natural gas, and its on a variable rate plan. One of my big complaints with Con Ed is that once you sign up with an ESCO, there is no way to determine whether you are saving or losing money with the ESCO. Last month, I called Con Ed and asked what I would have paid that month with them. I called four times and got four different answers, varying by 20%!

Back when I lived in New Jersey, they printed a Price to Compare on your bill, making it really easy to find out what sort of deal you are getting from the ESCO. Con Ed does not do this. I've called the Public Service Commission and my state representative to complain, but I doubt that anything is going to change soon.

So the bottom line is that if you switch to an ESCO, you will never know if you have any savings.

Who are you using for natural gas? Is it cheaper than Con Ed?

This whole ESCO scam has been a sore point with me for a while. I had been using a local oil company for my gas supply and finally cancelled them a couple of years ago when I realized I was paying more than Con Ed. As you say, Con Ed does not make it easy to figure out if you are saving money or not, and the PSC doesn't do ANYTHING to help the consumer, like publishing historical numbers. The PSC should force Con Ed and other utilities to put the price the consumer would have been paying for supply on the bill, whether you get your supply from the utility or an ESCO, to make it easy to find out if you're saving money or getting ripped off. Typically the only money the ESCO will claim that you will save is the sales tax that their supply is exempted from. And the bad ones add monthly fees and the like, almost ensuring that you won't save money.

I would love to find ESCO's where I can actually save money on my both gas and electric vs Con Ed.

Kanosh said:   When I lived in New York, I found that shifting to a time-of-day based tariff for electricity saved me considerable money. This is where they come out and put in a digital meter and you are charged less for electricity at night and during the winter and more during the daytime and summer. There was no need to switch to an ESCO, it is done directly thruogh ConEd.

The time of day rate can save you substantial money, IF you are able to do high-voltage tasks like washing clothes and dishes at nighttime and aren't around your place much during the day.


TOU metering often involves a higher fixed monthly customer charge. Users should think about the breakeven point before deciding to switch.

I'm getting my gas from SJ Energy Services. They appear to be slightly cheaper than Con Ed in the winter (when I use lots of gas) and slightly more expensive in the summer (when I don't care). But its really hard to tell for sure. When I spoke with somebody at SJ Energy, they advised me to not get electricity from them because it would not save me money, so perhaps they are one of the few suppliers who is actually honest.

And I coaxed the attached document out of a Con Ed supervisor. Its a summary of their Price to Compare for the last couple of years. But I don't believe it, either. I get electricity from Con Ed, and the rates don't seem to track with the rates shown here.

billrubin said:   bluechalk said:   I currently have an ESCO for natural gas, and its on a variable rate plan. One of my big complaints with Con Ed is that once you sign up with an ESCO, there is no way to determine whether you are saving or losing money with the ESCO. Last month, I called Con Ed and asked what I would have paid that month with them. I called four times and got four different answers, varying by 20%!

Back when I lived in New Jersey, they printed a Price to Compare on your bill, making it really easy to find out what sort of deal you are getting from the ESCO. Con Ed does not do this. I've called the Public Service Commission and my state representative to complain, but I doubt that anything is going to change soon.

So the bottom line is that if you switch to an ESCO, you will never know if you have any savings.

Who are you using for natural gas? Is it cheaper than Con Ed?

This whole ESCO scam has been a sore point with me for a while. I had been using a local oil company for my gas supply and finally cancelled them a couple of years ago when I realized I was paying more than Con Ed. As you say, Con Ed does not make it easy to figure out if you are saving money or not, and the PSC doesn't do ANYTHING to help the consumer, like publishing historical numbers. The PSC should force Con Ed and other utilities to put the price the consumer would have been paying for supply on the bill, whether you get your supply from the utility or an ESCO, to make it easy to find out if you're saving money or getting ripped off. Typically the only money the ESCO will claim that you will save is the sales tax that their supply is exempted from. And the bad ones add monthly fees and the like, almost ensuring that you won't save money.

I would love to find ESCO's where I can actually save money on my both gas and electric vs Con Ed.


The Con Edison Supply cost is on the website. That is why I know mine is precisely 9.58 cents since I did an average from 1/1/2011 to 12/31/2011 on the website. It came out to 9.58 cents per kw/hour.

I don't remember the link offhand however. I knew my rate zone as well.

All the variable rate ESCO's are totally useless because they can charge whatever they want. It is big money for the ESCO scammers which is why they pray on unsuspecting customers.

Even JustEnergy had a wording where if the Utility is cheaper they would give you back money. Well in the small print it says based on their own reasonable calculation which means they can make it out to be anything they want it to be and you won't get money back and you will pay more.

And one goes on to promise rebates. And I also got an offer from someone wanting me to give out the Account # just to get a quote.

99% of them are scammers who pray on unsuspecting consumers. Con Edison Solutions has a legitimate fixed rate price for those who want it and Energetix has a slightly better price. The others were all higher in price. Some were specialty green energy providers which actually charged outrageously high fees like 4.95 a month in addition to a high fixed energy rate. That firm claims to be producing 100% green energy for the Empire state building.

Will wait for the next bill I get as well as Energetix's next pricing to decide if I switch.

If it comes out cheaper and my bill goes up, I will likely switch and take the chance. I really do want to give deregulation a chance and make it work if it could.

DO NOT GO WITH ENERGY PLUS. sorry for all the caps. i went with them and my electric tripled going up to 550 for the month of july. granted, it was summer, but still. so i called them, threatened to take them to court and report them to the attorney general and they did everything to refund me (the WHOLE bill, not just the difference) if i did not report them. so they obviously knew they were ripping me off and any search for Energy Plus on the BBB site or any other rating site shows complaints up the wazoo.

if you have them, call and threaten to report them and take them to small claims. they will refund you completely becuase they can't afford any more complaints.

good luck.

they have this stuff in CT too. i reviewed it and they all seem to be huge scams. if you think about it, these guys aren't adding any value they're just fly by night marketing shops

The Energy Plus situation is well documented. They are owned by Reliant Energy, an NRG Company. It is sad when a firm which owns real generation assets abuses its customers all in the name of profits.

I am all for firms profitting but by providing cost efficiencies and increased generation not by scamming the consumer.

I was talking about Energy Plus when I posted by the way. They tried to peddle me a Delta skymiles promotion which I declined. I posted on here back then and I knew it would work out to be higher. Delta Skymiles are worthless unless you are a frequent flyer and even then the value becomes questionable.

Energetix is owned by Iberdrola USA and has an A+ BBB rating. Unfortunately Reliant Energy has a A+ BBB rating too which is the parent Company of Energy Plus. So having an A+ with the BBB is essentially meaningless.

With Energy Plus they didn't mention any fixed price, just promised to save on the 1st two months along with bonus mileage.

With energetix the website specifically gives a fixed price and are part of a legitimate utility so I don't see how I could lose money.

With Energy Plus I was not given a rate. They just seed you mileage hoping to jack up the rates.

I am still scared of Energetix but they are in a strictly regualated state like NY even though they are the deregulated arm of Iberdrola USA. I don't see how they can not honor their fixed pricing as per their own website.

I believe Energy Plus will do a hard pull, which essentially means the 10k miles or whatever promised is essentially useless. One can open a credit card for much more.

Spoke with Energetix. One of their reps has been excellent to deal with.

Read through all the contracts. If the price turns lower next month and my supply charges goes up, I will be with Energetix for supply.

While its not much of a savings, I am all for the principle of deregulation and want this to work.

grex23 said:   Spoke with Energetix. One of their reps has been excellent to deal with.Maybe you can organize a FW buying group? Get a better discount and you can bring them extra customers.

$25 referral fee if you refer someone else.

There is a $25 referral fee but no group energy buying.

Theoretically one can't save in a group buying situation on energy the way the markets work.

You need volume sales. Iberdrola is a super huge company and owns loads of assets and local utilities which I guess is why the prices come out to very slightly less.

The utility which said most ESCOs cant beat the utility is telling the truth.

I have never switched but my friend did ambit, and he looked at his neighbors bills and always came out ahead. anyone check them out

I don't recall if Ambit gave me a price or not.

I just emailed them via the website. Somehow I bet they will be more than Energetix or won't even have fixed rate 12 month supply.

I realize the whole process of deregulation in New York just doesn't work for the consumer.

For telecommunications and business telephone lines, you can indeed negotiate true discounts away from the incumbent carriers with CLEC's.

But with electricity unless its a huge savings, the risk/reward doesn't pay. With variable rates, there is no way to compare whatsoever and so what you want is the lowest fixed rate.

If someone came in with say a fixed rate of 5 cents per kw/h supply lets say, everyone would be using them and they would get significant sales by actually offering better prices and generating cost efficiency in the marketplace.

But that doesn't seem to be happening. Seems to be more profit for the firms for promising a variable rate and racking up rates on unsuspecting consumers such as Energy Plus.

I know Constellation is merging with another provider which sells energy locally here thru MXEnergy but their prices are on the high side for fixed rate. Will be interesting to see if price gets changed after the deal goes through considering just like Energetix they actually own legitimate power companies and generation assets in the region.

http://www.exelonconstellationmerger.com/sites/default/files/Bus...

As you can see they will be greatly enhancing their plants in the North East. Merger will be finalized very soon.

So we will see if later on we do see any real firms able to offer a fixed pricing rate actually less expensive than the existing utility for deregulation to actually work.

Early on there were sites that tracked ESCO's and released comparative data. Over the years, if anything, the concept is more muddied than ever. ConEd's website will give you that magic number namely, the average cost, for supply over a selected period. Try to find a competitor who will do the same. There must be good profits for the suppliers as I'm inundated with phone calls from them, notwithstanding the "do not call list." Who will help the consumers with the myriad complexities involved in the selection? The typical phone call usually leaves the impression that they are calling on behalf of your local utility. How many families are being gouged while believing they are saving money?

The most I got peddled was from Delta Skymiles with Energy Plus. I declined.

Instead I did my own research to realize there were essentially only 2 providers that actually responded to me which had decent fixed rate pricing:

Energetix owned by Iberdrola USA which owns 2 upstate new york power firms and one in Maine, and other utility assets.

Con Edison solutions owned by the same utility had the 2nd best rate. Essentially it was a fixed rate pricing plan while the utility itself is variable. There would be no reason to use deregulated variable since the rate would go up. They also offered green pricing choices just like Iberdrola

Accent Energy actually promised 100% wind power for the cheapest price for 100% renewable. However when asked who they acquired wind they didn't know. Any legitimate firm with wind assets would have a full listing of their wind assets on the net. Con Edison solutions as well as Energetix's renewable assets are well documented and real that one could actually verify.

http://apps3.eere.energy.gov/greenpower/buying/buying_power.shtm...

On the DOE list it incorrectly says Accent has green-e certified. In fact green-e does not show that Accent is certified on its own website.

Ambit Energy, LP external link
Residential, Commercial, Wholesale Electricity Ambit Green Power NY NY
Wind: 100%
ConEdison Solutions (ConEd) external link
Residential Electricity 100% Wind Power NY
Wind: 100%
Viridian Energy, Inc. external link
Residential, Commercial, Wholesale Electricity Viridian Pure Green NY NY
Wind: 100%

Those are green-e certified.

There are a lot of different terminologies out there however. What counts is the legitimacy of the generation portfolio.

Iberdrola USA is legitimate green-e for Iberdrola Renewables. Energetix isn't on the list however, but they are legitimate with wind assets with their parent firm.

bombcar said:   Given that a fixed rate is covering a risk for you, it should be more expensive in the long run than an actual running rate.

At least that's what market theory says.


Given that the fixed rate is covering a risk for the energy company, it should be cheaper in the long run than an actual running rate?

But since you have the option to cancel, it would need to be priced as some sort of option. Of course, if rates drop steeply, there's always the option for energy supplier to go into banlrupty and break existing contracts.

In any event, what original op indicated with respect to ESCO has been a sore point for me as well. I don't want to cover the risk of fluctuation, but pay less of a premium over the production cost, and noe of the companies seem to offer that opportunity. Generally, they don't seem to offer any auditable price structure (some caqn't quote any prices at all!!!) and seem to be focused mostly on gimmicks.

Energetix on the website had a fixed pricing structure with a $35 termination fee. And the fixed prices were coming in at lower than last years average supply costs.

However, according to their own website which shows the supply rate curve for my area, supply costs have actually been declining, not increasing.

So Ill wait till next month to see how Energetix's pricing come in compared with my bill and will wait for the next pricing change.

I agree though, most ESCO's will increase cost to the consumer not reduce it and are nothing more than con artists.

grex23 said:   Energetix on the website had a fixed pricing structure with a $35 termination fee. And the fixed prices were coming in at lower than last years average supply costs.

However, according to their own website which shows the supply rate curve for my area, supply costs have actually been declining, not increasing.
Same thing in the mid-atlantic. The fixed cost options have been advertising savings based on last year's costs, while the market rates offered by the primary suppliers have been steadily coming down. Show me a fixed price option in the consumer's favor, and I'll show you a company that won't be in business very long.

Actually that isn't true. If a company owned their own power generation assets and was able to keep their costs down, they could lead on efficiency. Lower salaries for workers, higher output plants that require less capital to build and so on and so forth. Better power delivered at cheaper and lower cost.

That is what deregulation should bring consumers. Better providers should be able to keep lower cost structures in place.

Energetix seems to be very well managed. Others are merely price gouging middlemen without providing anything to the system.

Some are expensive but do provide high growth for those who seek renewable energy.

Constellation Energy has potential post merger which will close by March 2012 or so. It will be interesting to see if that impacts the market.

Just like the Telecom's which have network operations centers, the energy suppliers work the same way and by choosing a supplier on the open market you are indeed changing the procurement of energy delivered to your own local power company.

While last mile is the same and the meter is still read by the utility, the actual process of delivering electrons on the grid in the system should change every time customers switch to ESCO's.

A: Customer buys from Energetix like me as supply delivered to Con Edison. So Energetix feeds more electrons into the grid coming from their power generation assets Upstate even though they are free to buy on the open market from others as well.

So if every customer switched to Energetix, Energetix would be maximizing the resources of their upstate plants and supplementing that with out of network power purchased from other providers.

But middlemen and brokers just clog up the process and offer nothing to the user. They don't own any energy sources, they just shop on the free market and their buyers get it from whatever deal they can get it cheapest from and then they charge maximum prices to the consumer for it.

In the case of Reliant or Energy Plus, they actually do own legitimate generation assets.

I am looking at the list of plants and the fact is Reliant actually owns the closest power plant to me. But that plant actually is not well run and suffered a steam explosion.

Energy traders on the open markets can actually select which plant to buy from and the better ones can in fact reduce costs. The problem is in deregulation we aren't really seeing that go back to the consumer.

Reliant energy plants (they own Energy Plus) in the NorthEast:


Arthur Kill
Astoria Gas Turbines
Conemaugh
Connecticut Jet Power
Devon
GenConn Devon
Dunkirk
Huntley
Indian River
Keystone
Middletown
GenConn Middletown
Montville
Norwalk Harbor
Oswego
Vienna

http://www.nrgenergy.com/about/assets.html

Basically as a consumer I know where all the plants are and the firms are. I don't want a middleman and I want a quality responsible operator giving good power at a good price.

I saw a website which was interesting which allowed companies to solicit bids based on your energy profile.

I think as smart grid technologies develop and the infrastructure gets modernized, hopefully we will actually see more promotion of true responsible ESCO's that can alter the marketplace.

Reliant isn't one of the better power companies out there in a pro competitive market so I would definitely avoid them.

Iberdrola USA just sounds good. Lower pricing, quality generation with good reviews, green energy if I want it.

http://www.iberdrolausa.com/NewsReleases/2011/07132011.html

Iberdrola USA just seems like the best supplier overall on the ESCO scene right now with Energetix in my market.

Tempted to switch and wish others would follow suit making waves in the energy distribution markets.

Constellation energy has potential in March IF somehow they offered some lower fixed rate pricing options.

I saw also Spark Energy was rated good on JDPower. However the customer rep online didn't seem to understand the business well. MXEnergy's online support along with Energetix via email were top draw.

So to sum up:

Energetix looks like the clear winner today in the ESCO markets for my area as of today.

In the future who knows what will happen.

bombcar said:   Given that a fixed rate is covering a risk for you, it should be more expensive in the long run than an actual running rate.

At least that's what market theory says.


Given that the fixed rate is covering a risk for the energy company, it should be cheaper in the long run than an actual running rate?

But since you have the option to cancel, it would need to be priced as some sort of option. Of course, if rates drop steeply, there's always the option for energy supplier to go into banlrupty and break existing contracts.

In any event, what original op indicated with respect to ESCO has been a sore point for me as well. I don't want to cover the risk of fluctuation, but pay less of a premium over the production cost, and noe of the companies seem to offer that opportunity. Generally, they don't seem to offer any auditable price structure (some caqn't quote any prices at all!!!) and seem to be focused mostly on gimmicks.

m2go you posted the same thing twice. Did you just cut and paste that again?

too lazy to price ESCOs this year , in NY in NYSEG territory, lowest fixed for 2008-2011 was NOCO, for electric. Anyone in NYSEG/National grid run the fixed numbers this year ?

In NY, in Con Edison territory, NYSEG was cheapest with its Energetix division.

NOCO isnt available here. NOCO is .05779 in NYSEG for electric.

Here, Energetix (owned by same firm as NYSEG) is .08785 in Con Edison Terrtory.

While I can understand delivery costs being higher in the NYC market, even though it would be nice if they were lower, there shouldn't be any reason why supply costs should be higher because electricity can be exported. By bringing electricity from NYSEG markets to Con Edison, you actually wind up getting a slight rate reduction with a contract.

Governor Cuomo actually mentioned in his state of the state speech in NY about building more transmission lines to export more energy from upstate so I wonder if the lack of the transmission lines is really why exporting from upstate isn't even cheaper.

The way I am playing it is I will wait for the next months bill and for Energetix's next price change and to see if it is worthwhile to switch.

A $35 contract isn't horrible with the $25 new customer incentive. In other markets, supply can be had cheaper but in Con Edison markets, the ESCO competition leads to just one competitive player in the market in my rate zone in the city. The problem is if you just save slightly one year if you do, the question is, will the rate for the next year be good or do you wind up going on variable at a higher rate.

Come March Constellations merger will be complete so I may wait just a little longer to see if that actually winds up providing any substantial competition. Considering their nuclear generation assets nearby and with the merger, one would think they could offer substantially competitive products after it is complete.

Reliant had generators in load pockets and had the cheapest transportation costs but on the open market for ESCO's winds up to me one of the most expensive. Go figure.

So I will be checking http://www.mxenergy.com and http://www.energetix.com later on to see how prices wind up.

Consolidated Edison Electric: Fixed - Twelve Billing Cycles

Base Rate: $0.1089 per kWh

Cancel Fee: $100

This is MXEnergy right now. For cheap nuclear power supply this is actually rediculous pricing. Constellation will be merging though with another firm and I forget which firm had which plants but one would think that they could do substantially better on cost.

I fell for the Energy Plus "miles for much higher electricity costs" trap 3 years ago or so. Luckily I use very little electricity in my small apartment (100 kWh / month) so as soon as the 3 months were up I switched back to Con Ed. Had to raise hell to get my miles too... That is one company to AVOID!

I am using Con Ed Solutions for the second year running now - signed up for their cheaper tree hugger plan (66% hydroelectic, 33% wind power) and my fixed rate is around 9.1c/ kWh. I see that the fixed price for new contracts went down to 7.5c for regular, 8.5 for my plan and 10 for exclusive wind power but in my case the differences in total bill are negligible so I don't sweat it. <rant> The delivery charges more than double my costs anyway since Con ed charges 10.9 c/kWh for delivery
And the fixed basic service charge is about half of my entire electric bill </rant over>

Energetix pricing for NYC in Rate Zone J comes out to less than Con Edison Solutions even for tree hugger plans.

But those tree hugger plans are useless. Why? If every utility customer switched to a Wind Power plan, there would not be 100% power by wind. They basically build small supplies of wind power and if a customer pays for such, they allocate some power units on those wind towers for those customers.

While people like renewable and there are statewide mandates in New York for 25% renewable by 2013, all customers are forced to pay for such with a renewable tax already added to the bill.

I bet the percentage of the added money spent on wind, only a fraction actually goes into developing more wind power plants.

The only real way to get wind power legitimately is to buy rural land lets say, build wind towers and tie them back to the grid and by you owning the towers, you are actually selling back electricity to the grid. There is no reason any customer should be paying more for something that should cost less money because there are no fuel costs. Initial cost is higher which is understandable but the long term cost is much lower, and you will always be paying a higher rate. It just doesn't make sense.

Skipping 16 Messages...
Folks, if you live in ConEd territory and want to save on your electric bill, don't monkey around with an ESCO.

Instead, ask ConEd to switch you to a time of day meter and tariff. You can do this even if you live in a rental apartment. ConEd will come out and put a digital meter on your line. You then pay much, much less during off peak hours, and a bit more during peak hours. Much less in winter, more in summer. If you can control your consumption even a bit (say, by running a dishwasher or clothes dryer later a night) you will save big.

Best of all it is all on one bill from ConEd; you do not need to monkey around with multiple suppliers.



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