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Hardy Toll road is a joke. I've been caught by that a couple times coming into Houston late at night - sometimes I just forget they close up shop and only take coins at 1 am. I finally now skip the entire thing and just take the normal highway (35?) into the city.

You got screwed, definitely. Jerk cop.

PatrickM213 said:   Sounds like you need therapy for your PTSD....

LOL, well, not really. It's more about anger at my desire to simply be left alone being disrespected. I don't break the law and I don't bother people, yet police think it's ok to bother me, and if I try to do anything about it, they'll just bother me more. Lucky for me, none of the cops I've dealt with ever tried to plant any evidence on me, so every encounter I've had with the police has turned out to be a big waste of everybody's time, but I always know in the back of my mind that it can happen. The worst part is that if it does, I'll be considered guilty until proven innocent by the courts. The whole system is corrupt from the top on down.

DTASFAB said:   owenscott said:   Yes drunks swerve in their own lanes too ... the cop had to deal with two subjects so he separated you both to do a quick investigation. Seems you were no worse for the wear. You'd be surprised how well this works to ferret out criminal behavior, drunk, drugged, driver and lots of other stuff. Inconvenience some sometimes but i expect you'll find case law shows its accepted police practice and acceptable to the courts.

They're not "subjects," they're tax-paying citizens who are supposed to be considered innocent until proven guilty by a jury of their peers in a court of law.

The few encounters I've had with police have been much like you described. Some were a little quicker and simpler and less invasive, while others were more thorough and intrusive, but I've never been charged with any crime other than a simple traffic infraction.

After having been indoctrinated as a young child by my public school teachers to believe we live in a free society and that police officers are our friends, these experiences have all left me worse for wear, and dare I say, borderline traumatized - not because I was physically abused or beaten or because I ever had any genuine fear that I might have to remain in police custody for more than a few minutes, but because I'm afraid every time I leave my house that I'm going to run into the wrong dirty cop who's having a bad day and is going to try to take it out on me. One time when I was driving in the Bronx around 9:00PM on a weeknight, a group of goons resembling Vic Mackey and his crew of special forces drove by me in an unmarked Crown Vic and witnessed me putting a small cardboard box containing a dirty oil rag and a plastic funnel into the trunk of my 24-year old cheap Japanese car. Somehow, this warranted a traffic stop in which I was verbally addressed aggressively and condescendingly for no reason. The mere fact that the police had any right to stop me under the circumstances and that a court would have upheld any evidence they might have found of illegal activity (they found none - lucky for me none of them felt like tossing a bag of coke under my spare tire and then charging me with numerous drug felonies) is indicative that we do not live in a free country, or anything resembling one.

The fact that a police officer's word has more standing in a court of law than that of a "civilian" (judges will never admit this is true, but let's stop pretending) indicates that cops can do whatever the hell they want, and usually get away with it. Never mind that the vast majority of cops don't plant evidence. The point is that the way the court system functions, they all COULD. If the wrong cop reads this and manages to identify me by name, I have no doubt that he could get me wrongly convicted of a serious crime, if he really wanted to.

Keep in mind I'm caucasian and there's nothing about my appearance, my clothing, my hair, my car, or anything else about me that anyone in their right mind would characterize as suspicious. I can only imagine how bad it must be for black people living in urban areas to deal with police. The NYPD stop-and-frisk program is about the most egregious violation of constitutional rights I've ever seen. I've witnessed it firsthand happening to others. Of course, I don't look like the type of person who routinely gets profiled, so I've never been stopped myself, but that doesn't make it any less outrageous and indefensible.

I recently watched all 60 episodes of The Wire, which took me about 5-6 weeks. In the commentary track of one of the episodes, the show's creator talks about how for some cops, the badge becomes everything - that being a police officer isn't just a job they do for 8-12 hours a day, but that the officer's identity as a person becomes entangled with the privileges and benefits of holding a badge. Once this happens, these individuals become extremely entitled and think of non-law enforcement people as a lower class of citizens, and therefore, they no longer possess the impartiality necessary to perform the job as prescribed and should be terminated immediately.


Well i prefer to call people subjects rather than suspects. I understand we are no longer subject to the royal crown ... would you not be more upset if i called you a "suspect?"

DTASFAB said:   PatrickM213 said:   Sounds like you need therapy for your PTSD....

LOL, well, not really. It's more about anger at my desire to simply be left alone being disrespected. I don't break the law and I don't bother people, yet police think it's ok to bother me, and if I try to do anything about it, they'll just bother me more. Lucky for me, none of the cops I've dealt with ever tried to plant any evidence on me, so every encounter I've had with the police has turned out to be a big waste of everybody's time, but I always know in the back of my mind that it can happen. The worst part is that if it does, I'll be considered guilty until proven innocent by the courts. The whole system is corrupt from the top on down.


Well then they should just take you word for it then ... i mean every other incident has been a waste of time. Definitely the cops are wrong. Maybe sometimes the police are wrong. I'd bet wayyy more often then most people realize, the police are well within written and case law. You always have the option of a civil suit against them .. our complain in an internet forum. Either or ...

owenscott said:   Well i prefer to call people subjects rather than suspects. I understand we are no longer subject to the royal crown ... would you not be more upset if i called you a "suspect?"
Any distinction between the two words is an inconsequential play over semantics. There is no meaningful difference, just like there's no real difference between prosecution and persecution.

owenscott said:   I'd bet wayyy more often then most people realize, the police are well within written and case law.
I never said they weren't. That doesn't mean the laws themselves aren't immoral and unjust.

And what does it say about the character of individuals who enforce unjust laws?

Wendy McElroy said: Henry David Thoreau and 'Civil Disobedience'

The individual is the final judge of right and wrong. More than this, since only individuals act, only individuals can act unjustly. When the government knocks on the door, it is an individual in the form of a postman or tax collector whose hand hits the wood. Before Thoreau’s imprisonment, when a confused taxman had wondered aloud about how to handle his refusal to pay, Thoreau had advised, “Resign.” If a man chose to be an agent of injustice, then Thoreau insisted on confronting him with the fact that he was making a choice. As Thoreau explained,

[It] is, after all, with men and not with parchment that I quarrel, – and he has voluntarily chosen to be an agent of the government.

owenscott said:   Well then they should just take you word for it then ... i mean every other incident has been a waste of time. Definitely the cops are wrong. Maybe sometimes the police are wrong.
Why, exactly, shouldn't they take my word for it? Your response is indicative of an attitude that all civilians are liars until the truth they speak can somehow be corroborated. Do you not see the problem with this line of thinking?

It's not so much a question of whether they really believe they'll find any charges to pin on me if they look hard enough. Maybe they really have a gut feeling that I've done something illegal. It doesn't even matter that they're wrong or that they always end up letting me go. It's that they don't have anything better to do, so they harass people, hoping to find evidence of some low-level crime that will help them up their arrest records and get convictions that result in fines being paid to the local town coffers.

Sometimes I get caught in that net of suspicion through no fault of my own, and I have every right to be bitter and resentful about that. Then when people complain, they fall back on, "I was just doing my job." For reasons outlined above, this is not a sufficient response.

BlueLetterD said:   I don't appreciate people coming to our wonderful state who blow off paying tolls and diss our cops. Nobody disrespects our cops but ourselves.

You are not welcome on FW. Get lost.

where is the FW thread on how to get out of red light camera tickets?


DTASFAB said:   owenscott said:   Well then they should just take you word for it then ... i mean every other incident has been a waste of time. Definitely the cops are wrong. Maybe sometimes the police are wrong.
Why, exactly, shouldn't they take my word for it? Your response is indicative of an attitude that all civilians are liars until the truth they speak can somehow be corroborated. Do you not see the problem with this line of thinking?

It's not so much a question of whether they really believe they'll find any charges to pin on me if they look hard enough. Maybe they really have a gut feeling that I've done something illegal. It doesn't even matter that they're wrong or that they always end up letting me go. It's that they don't have anything better to do, so they harass people, hoping to find evidence of some low-level crime that will help them up their arrest records and get convictions that result in fines being paid to the local town coffers.

Sometimes I get caught in that net of suspicion through no fault of my own, and I have every right to be bitter and resentful about that. Then when people complain, they fall back on, "I was just doing my job." For reasons outlined above, this is not a sufficient response.


Criminals lie .. until the cops can figure out which you are ... no they will not just take your word for it. I was kinda making a joke about that. We aren't allowed to pull somebody over or stop and frisk for "a hunch". Articulable (spelling?) reason that should pass judicial muster. I fall down on the side of police when somebody says the cop was wrong because i understand how cops think and how (subjects, suspects, semantics ) think as well. Most of the time I can make people understand why the police did what they did and if they were police officer they, nothing is 100%, might do the same thing. Some will never admit they are wrong, i married one of those, and until i know what the cop saw/really did i usually fall down on the side of the police being correct in their actions.

You stated when you get caught up in the net of suspicion it bothers you. I do understand that people do think that and i will go out of my way to explain rationally why things transpired the way they did.

Hypothetical situation ... I would never write a designated driver a blinker ticket. Well, that is, once i could confirm the alcohol smell isn't coming from the driver and they are *doing the right thing*. I think the fact that the driver with the bloodshot eyes, driving poorly, **weaving in his own lane**, fail to signal, and reeking of alcohol is actually sober i give him a quick warning about safe driving and get them out of there. Tho he may feel i'm harassing him because he hasn't even been drinking at all. The judge and the public usually are going to side with me to make a quick check to make sure he is safe to drive. *ADMIT* some cops are douche bags and would still write the fail to signal ticket. I just wouldn't.

owenscott said:   DTASFAB said:   PatrickM213 said:   Sounds like you need therapy for your PTSD....

LOL, well, not really. It's more about anger at my desire to simply be left alone being disrespected. I don't break the law and I don't bother people, yet police think it's ok to bother me, and if I try to do anything about it, they'll just bother me more. Lucky for me, none of the cops I've dealt with ever tried to plant any evidence on me, so every encounter I've had with the police has turned out to be a big waste of everybody's time, but I always know in the back of my mind that it can happen. The worst part is that if it does, I'll be considered guilty until proven innocent by the courts. The whole system is corrupt from the top on down.


Well then they should just take you word for it then ... i mean every other incident has been a waste of time. Definitely the cops are wrong. Maybe sometimes the police are wrong. I'd bet wayyy more often then most people realize, the police are well within written and case law. You always have the option of a civil suit against them .. our complain in an internet forum. Either or ...


What purpose does it serve to anonymously complain on an internet forum about a made up lie?

For those of us that are honest and innocent, it's quite insulting and frustrating to be accused and punished for something we didn't do. From our perspective, it will seem to be the case that cops do wrong many innocent people. I know very well that in reality, the cops deal with many many more people that are dishonest and guilty.

owenscott said:   DTASFAB said:   owenscott said:   Well then they should just take you word for it then ... i mean every other incident has been a waste of time. Definitely the cops are wrong. Maybe sometimes the police are wrong.
Why, exactly, shouldn't they take my word for it? Your response is indicative of an attitude that all civilians are liars until the truth they speak can somehow be corroborated. Do you not see the problem with this line of thinking?

It's not so much a question of whether they really believe they'll find any charges to pin on me if they look hard enough. Maybe they really have a gut feeling that I've done something illegal. It doesn't even matter that they're wrong or that they always end up letting me go. It's that they don't have anything better to do, so they harass people, hoping to find evidence of some low-level crime that will help them up their arrest records and get convictions that result in fines being paid to the local town coffers.

Sometimes I get caught in that net of suspicion through no fault of my own, and I have every right to be bitter and resentful about that. Then when people complain, they fall back on, "I was just doing my job." For reasons outlined above, this is not a sufficient response.


Criminals lie .. until the cops can figure out which you are ... no they will not just take your word for it. I was kinda making a joke about that. We aren't allowed to pull somebody over or stop and frisk for "a hunch". Articulable (spelling?) reason that should pass judicial muster. I fall down on the side of police when somebody says the cop was wrong because i understand how cops think and how (subjects, suspects, semantics ) think as well. Most of the time I can make people understand why the police did what they did and if they were police officer they, nothing is 100%, might do the same thing. Some will never admit they are wrong, i married one of those, and until i know what the cop saw/really did i usually fall down on the side of the police being correct in their actions.

You stated when you get caught up in the net of suspicion it bothers you. I do understand that people do think that and i will go out of my way to explain rationally why things transpired the way they did.

Hypothetical situation ... I would never write a designated driver a blinker ticket. Well, that is, once i could confirm the alcohol smell isn't coming from the driver and they are *doing the right thing*. I think the fact that the driver with the bloodshot eyes, driving poorly, **weaving in his own lane**, fail to signal, and reeking of alcohol is actually sober i give him a quick warning about safe driving and get them out of there. Tho he may feel i'm harassing him because he hasn't even been drinking at all. The judge and the public usually are going to side with me to make a quick check to make sure he is safe to drive. *ADMIT* some cops are douche bags and would still write the fail to signal ticket. I just wouldn't.


I have had 3 cops from 3 diffrent jurisdictions on 3 different levels say straight out "If I need a reason to pull you over, I can find one. All I say is you drifted into another lane."

I sat on juries and have seen just how dumb cops are for the level of responsibilty they have.

It should be mandated that twice a year every cop should go through a lie detector test and asked "Have you pulled someone over without legal reasoning?" and "Have you ever made up a reason for pulling someone over?" Make it a federal crime for doing.

I was once pulled over for drunk driving, giving a field sobriety test and told I failed. I had not had a drink in weeks. I smiled at the cop and said "Let's go get that blood test." His backup arrived, figured out was going on, and let me go. No ticket for "drifting" which was the reason he gave me for pulling over and no DUI even though the cop said I failed the sobriety test.

I am always happy when I see on the news when a cop is busted and I know he will do time in prison. I take glee in knowing all the free sex he will be receiving.

Just last week the local city officer was fired for domestic abuse. He had the audacity to appeal the decision, stand in front of the city council and ask for his job back.

All cops are criminals that haven't been caught yet.

Freno911 said:   lastgaspjr said:   Here's sucky news: If you do use EZ Tag, the rental car companies will gouge you mercilessly (but at least you don't have to show up in court). They will charge you the toll plus a daily fee. They will charge the daily fee for every day that you have the car, not just the days you use toll roads. So pass through one EZ Tag lane on just one day of your rental and, in effect, your rental fee goes up several dollars per day plus tolls.

I rented a car in Boston last year from Alamo and turned down the EZ Pass. I got turned around on the turnpike and ended up running a Pass-only toll to turn the correct direction. A few weeks later I got the toll fee + rental 'fine' mailed to me - only $17 total. That's cheaper than if I had rented the Pass for my trip (I believe it was $5 / day plus toll fees).


Was just certified as a class action suit in NJ, look for Mendez v. Avis Rental

Well the case just showed up on their online system. There is a fine listed for if I don't want to appear - $150. That's not horrible, but it's still unfair given the circumstances so I have written a letter to the judge. Will update with what happens.

Hey guys,

Just an update. I sent a letter to the judge which was basically a 1.5 page thing that politely gave the details of what happened and asked for the case to be dismissed. I just checked the citation status in their online system and the status is...drum roll please....DISMISSED!

Thanks for all your help. Even if the ticket ended up being much less expensive than I thought it would be originally, paying $150 for what happened would still be unfair. Thanks for helping me get it thrown out.

Judge Good...Cops Bad, no donuts for them.

saladdin said:   
I have had 3 cops from 3 diffrent jurisdictions on 3 different levels say straight out "If I need a reason to pull you over, I can find one. All I say is you drifted into another lane."

I sat on juries and have seen just how dumb cops are for the level of responsibilty they have.


In the era of dash cams, in-car cams, bumper cams and other kinds of cams all over the place, any cop willing to risk his own paycheck, pension and future to pull over some schlep is too dumb to be a cop. How many juries have you sat on? Most people go their whole lives without being on one, but you've been on multiple. You must be a lucky fella. As far as how dumb they are - maybe it's poor public speaking skills or testimony skills? I get nervous sometimes testifying in court myself, and I do it all the time.

saladdin said:   


I was once pulled over for drunk driving, giving a field sobriety test and told I failed. I had not had a drink in weeks. I smiled at the cop and said "Let's go get that blood test." His backup arrived, figured out was going on, and let me go. No ticket for "drifting" which was the reason he gave me for pulling over and no DUI even though the cop said I failed the sobriety test.

.

Same thing happened to me in san jose . He accuses me of having bloodshot eyes (contacts in all day) Told the Cop let's go down to the station so I can blow my 0.00 , he goes to his partner and tells me to leave without so much as a ticket

jcaserta said:   Hey guys,

Just an update. I sent a letter to the judge which was basically a 1.5 page thing that politely gave the details of what happened and asked for the case to be dismissed. I just checked the citation status in their online system and the status is...drum roll please....DISMISSED!

Thanks for all your help. Even if the ticket ended up being much less expensive than I thought it would be originally, paying $150 for what happened would still be unfair. Thanks for helping me get it thrown out.


Faith in the justice system restored (just a bit)!



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