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So after reading the latest "never get married/don't trust women" thread (http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1188453/) I began to wonder why the fatwallet community is so anti-marriage? Is this a normal societal reaction, or does this website foster a certain kind of groupthink? Or does this website cater to people that have a pre-disposition to divorce/strife. There have to be many instances where marriage can be financially beneficial (raising a family, sharing resources, dividing expenses by 2 instead of one, mental health, quality of life), but those are obviously offset by divorce and cheating stories. Yes 50% of marriages end in divorce, but 100% of marriages thought they would succeed.

So I figure it comes down to four things:
1.) Fatwallet people put a higher-than-normal emphasis on money spent/saved, and many marriages are undone by financial differences. Hence, one could beget the other.
2.) This is the internet, where you can say what you want, even if you don't believe it.
3.) This site might have a higher population of socially-challenged people, or internet behaviors that impede a successful marriage.
4.) It's just normal to become disillusioned/realistic as you go through life and gain experience.

I know this is in the finance section, so I will ask why it is such a common bit of advise to not get married or not trust women on this forum. Is that really sound advice???? Would you say the same thing to your best friend that you would advise to a stranger?

PLEASE NOTE. I am not trying to sound condescending here. All four of the above points could easily apply to anyone or myself.

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jcb193 (May. 08, 2012 @ 10:21p) |

as entertaining a thread as this has been to read...I am sad that I can only give 1 green for this

nukemed (May. 08, 2012 @ 10:51p) |

This thread has strayed too far off topic and has been locked.

Wemic (May. 09, 2012 @ 12:44a) |

Since the day i read this post, I see the world in a different light.
http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/973509/
Thanks for visiting FatWallet.com. Join for free to remove this ad.

The benefits you mentioned are the benefits of being in a relationship, not the benefits of making a government contract out of said relationship.

Annual spending pre wife - ~24000 - 4 yrs - Included at least one week of drinking and "socializing" in Europe every year and at least 1-2 bar nights per week.

Annual spending post wife - ~44000 - year 1, ~48000 - year 2, Stabilized year 3-5 at approx 52k.

Rule of Fs. If it flies, floats or ..cks it is cheaper to rent.

Just wondering if your income changed post-marriage, or if you were saving the other ~$25k a year when you were single TexasRob. Just curious, either way it's good to see someone with numbers/experience backing up their opinion

TexasRob said:   Annual spending pre wife - ~24000 - 4 yrs - Included at least one week of drinking and "socializing" in Europe every year and at least 1-2 bar nights per week.

Annual spending post wife - ~44000 - year 1, ~48000 - year 2, Stabilized year 3-5 at approx 52k.

Rule of Fs. If it flies, floats or ..cks it is cheaper to rent.



obviously post wife you are adding an additional person so of course it's going to nearly double.

Would never let a financial decision decide my personal life. I love being married and having a family, but of course did a prenup first

It's impossible to discuss the benefits of marriage without starting with the concept that sex outside of marriage is wrong. Absent this concept, I agree that only a fool would ever marry.

Married.

Prenup.

Wife makes more money than I do, and it looks like her potential for advancement is much higher than mine.

I'm happy and this looks like a stable situation moving forward, but purely from a financial point of view-- whoops.

All your points are pretty much correct. Remember this is a finance forum. Children and marriage are typically huge costs. That they may provide other types of satisfaction in ones life is noted, but isn't really germane to a finance forum.

It's usually silly to ask "should I have kids" or "should I get married" if examining only the finances of it. Because you probably won't like the answer .

SUCKISSTAPLES said:   ...It's usually silly to ask "should I have kids" or "should I get married" if examining only the finances of it. Because you probably won't like the answer .Exactly. Wives and kids are monstrous wealth-sinks, period. They may pay off in other ways, and it *is* true that married men report more overall happiness and live slightly longer. But from a purely financial perspective, a man should run, not walk, from marriage and family.

What I think is interesting is that the prime reason a clear-thinking man would choose to be married (regular access to sex and companionship) has pretty much fallen away in my lifetime. The sexual revolution matured into the gender wars, and with the exception of under-educated manual-labor types, men have won.

I often respond with anti-marriage advice for young FWFers asking the question...that being said, I'm very happy to be married, have a child and plan to have at least one more. We dated for 5 years prior to marriage and were married 5 years prior to having a child (I'm a big fan of 5 year plans for major life decisions). Neither of us had a dime to our name when we met (actually we each had our fair share of debt), neither of us have wealthy parents so we skipped the pre-nup. If you look at the majority of my advice to FWFers and what I tell my friends it's mostly anti-marriage...but not because I'm against the institution of marriage itself, I just think people rush-in without first giving thought to the long-term ramifications (potential divorce, assets, debt, taxation, the urge to bang the hot neighbor, etc)...and that's all I really encourage people to consider. I didn't really start seriously tracking our finances/net worth until after we were married, but the increase in the 6 years we've been married is nearly 10 fold--though that was starting from a fairly low number due to student loans, etc. There's something to be said about being commited to another person, sharing goals, income, expenses (economies of scale are a nice perk of marriage). If I hadn't gotten married and were dating and were considering marriage at this point in life (when I do have assets) I would be a whole lot more cautious than I was (when I didn't have $h!t).

Easiest solution is marry UP.

jcb193 said:   
3.) This site might have a higher population of socially-challenged people, or internet behaviors that impede a successful marriage.
4.) It's just normal to become disillusioned/realistic as you go through life and gain experience.


3) is almost certainly true. Four is true for 98% of people. The others we call "simpletons."

It isn't that marriage is always a bad choice. Being happily married is in fact awesome, including from a financial standpoint. Unfortunately our society puts such an emphasis on getting married that many people do it even when it's not clearly in their best interest. Just look at the 'happily ever after' ending of so many stories. Considering there's a huge emotional and financial cost to ending a marriage this results in a choice that needs to warned against.

It is very easy to get married. And the cost to getting married 'too late' are small. It is very hard to get divorced. And the cost to getting married 'too soon' are large.

MrGlobe said:   Just wondering if your income changed post-marriage, or if you were saving the other ~$25k a year when you were single TexasRob. Just curious, either way it's good to see someone with numbers/experience backing up their opinion

My saving rate pre-marriage was approximately 62% and accounting for promotions/raises decreased to a low of 34%. Slowly winning her over so spending levels have stabilized and career shift has boosted the savings. She will never be a saver but at least she isn't donated brand new clothes to goodwill lately.

rmhop said:   TexasRob said:   Annual spending pre wife - ~24000 - 4 yrs - Included at least one week of drinking and "socializing" in Europe every year and at least 1-2 bar nights per week.

Annual spending post wife - ~44000 - year 1, ~48000 - year 2, Stabilized year 3-5 at approx 52k.

Rule of Fs. If it flies, floats or ..cks it is cheaper to rent.


obviously post wife you are adding an additional person so of course it's going to nearly double.


Because we obviously did not move in together and are still paying for 2 separate houses and associated bills...

enc0re said:   It isn't that marriage is always a bad choice. Being happily married is in fact awesome, including from a financial standpoint. Unfortunately our society puts such an emphasis on getting married that many people do it even when it's not clearly in their best interested. Just look at the 'happily ever after' ending of so many stories. .

Marriage for "love" is a fairly recent phenomenon, popularized by Hollywood. For thousands of years, and still in many countries, marriage is about the financial joining of two families. In those situations, marriage can make lots of sense from a financial perspective.

But most people these days tend to follow the Hollywood version of marriage - marry who is fun to be with now, divorce them when they turn out to be not so much fun later....

Why buy the cow?

soundtechie said:   It's impossible to discuss the benefits of marriage without starting with the concept that sex outside of marriage is wrong. Absent this concept, I agree that only a fool would ever marry.

I know this got red, but I think it is a good point. I think a lot of people are led to marry because they want sex and believe that sex outside of marriage is a sin. It's certainly not the only reason to get married, but I've seen a few couples divorce because this was essentially their only reason for being married.

jcb193 said:   So after reading the latest "never get married/don't trust women" thread (http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1188453/) I began to wonder why the fatwallet community is so anti-marriage? Is this a normal societal reaction, or does this website foster a certain kind of groupthink? Or does this website cater to people that have a pre-disposition to divorce/strife. There have to be many instances where marriage can be financially beneficial (raising a family, sharing resources, dividing expenses by 2 instead of one, mental health, quality of life), but those are obviously offset by divorce and cheating stories. Yes 50% of marriages end in divorce, but 100% of marriages thought they would succeed.

So I figure it comes down to four things:
1.) Fatwallet people put a higher-than-normal emphasis on money spent/saved, and many marriages are undone by financial differences. Hence, one could beget the other.
2.) This is the internet, where you can say what you want, even if you don't believe it.
3.) This site might have a higher population of socially-challenged people, or internet behaviors that impede a successful marriage.
4.) It's just normal to become disillusioned/realistic as you go through life and gain experience.

I know this is in the finance section, so I will ask why it is such a common bit of advise to not get married or not trust women on this forum. Is that really sound advice???? Would you say the same thing to your best friend that you would advise to a stranger?

PLEASE NOTE. I am not trying to sound condescending here. All four of the above points could easily apply to anyone or myself.


You missed some important reasons why FW folks appear to be anti-marriage:

1. The posters here are a tiny microcosm of society as a whole. It is not that FWers (and thereby society at large) are anti-marriage as much as they are (a) PROUD (b) SELFISH (c) ENTITLED (d) MISINFORMED (e) CONSUMERISTS (f) DISINFORMED (g) SELF SERVING (h) IDOL WORSHIPPERS

2. You will rarely find rational advice when it comes to dating or marriage if your sole purpose in life is to WORSHIP money. People that worship money make terrible teachers (of anything), terrible spouses, friends, coworkers, etc.

3. When money worshippers are not worshipping money, they are worshipping themselves. They cannot do anything for anyone else (let alone a spouse) because they are too busy trying to find someone else they can blame for their own failures and shortcomings and trying to find others who can serve their needs (only). They can never serve. They can only be served.

4. Entitlements and Pride are virtues (not vices) to money worshippers. They see no problem in telling others to not get married because they themselves (if they are married) are terrible spouses. How can anyone take advice from a group of proud money worshippers?

5. Feeding their pride is television, internet and the media. Why settle for marriage when you are being told 24/7 that IT is all about YOU? Don't like your current spouse? Great! Just kick them to the curb and get another one online! Like rock climbing, but your spouse doesn't? No problem. Just find another online! Frustrated that you cannot get your "fair share" from this marriage financially/emotionally/physically? Don't spend another minute worrying about it! Flush it and find another one! After all, it is all about you! You are the best and YOU deserve nothing but the best!

So, I'm not surprised by the widely held sentiment in here. It reflects a much larger problem at the society level.

SUCKISSTAPLES said:   
Marriage for "love" is a fairly recent phenomenon, popularized by Hollywood. For thousands of years, and still in many countries, marriage is about the financial joining of two families. In those situations, marriage can make lots of sense from a financial perspective.

But most people these days tend to follow the Hollywood version of marriage - marry who is fun to be with now, divorce them when they turn out to be not so much fun later....


I believe that Disney is largely to blame for the distorted worldview of most women today. Not every girl is a princess, not every boy is a wealthy & handsome prince, and not every story has a happy ending. We have absolved our youth of values like personal responsibility.

I was sad to hear an NPR story this week about Prince William's 1-year anniversary, which featured a British teen talking about how every girl's dream is to be a princess "just like a Disney movie". Sad to see that influence has jumped the pond.

Sorry if it seems like I rag on women. Guys certainly have their challenges and shortcomings, too.

College enrollment of women is 55% and growing, to men's 45%. The future is clear -- women will on average earn more than men. From an economic standpoint, you're likely to benefit if you marry a wife. I have known personally 4 women who are supporting their husbands. This trend will grow.

Also, if you decide to marry, try to marry a wife who is about your age or younger. Beauty is short lived, so if you have to put up with the nagging, at least give yourself a chance to smell the roses and watch the flowers bloom. Of course aging affects everyone. Suppose you run into an older woman, make sure she is sweet and supportive. An "old nag" is quite possibly the worst deal in marriage-- for the man.

A tree that grows tall and sturdy usually has a strong root system as the foundation. A strong marriage would be your foundation for a long and happy life. Don't let the potential price tag deter you. Loneliness and lovelessness have a high price, too.

vstrt said:   jcb193 said:   So after reading the latest "never get married/don't trust women" thread (http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1188453/) I began to wonder why the fatwallet community is so anti-marriage? Is this a normal societal reaction, or does this website foster a certain kind of groupthink? Or does this website cater to people that have a pre-disposition to divorce/strife. There have to be many instances where marriage can be financially beneficial (raising a family, sharing resources, dividing expenses by 2 instead of one, mental health, quality of life), but those are obviously offset by divorce and cheating stories. Yes 50% of marriages end in divorce, but 100% of marriages thought they would succeed.

So I figure it comes down to four things:
1.) Fatwallet people put a higher-than-normal emphasis on money spent/saved, and many marriages are undone by financial differences. Hence, one could beget the other.
2.) This is the internet, where you can say what you want, even if you don't believe it.
3.) This site might have a higher population of socially-challenged people, or internet behaviors that impede a successful marriage.
4.) It's just normal to become disillusioned/realistic as you go through life and gain experience.

I know this is in the finance section, so I will ask why it is such a common bit of advise to not get married or not trust women on this forum. Is that really sound advice???? Would you say the same thing to your best friend that you would advise to a stranger?

PLEASE NOTE. I am not trying to sound condescending here. All four of the above points could easily apply to anyone or myself.


You missed some important reasons why FW folks appear to be anti-marriage:

1. The posters here are a tiny microcosm of society as a whole. It is not that FWers (and thereby society at large) are anti-marriage as much as they are (a) PROUD (b) SELFISH (c) ENTITLED (d) MISINFORMED (e) CONSUMERISTS (f) DISINFORMED (g) SELF SERVING (h) IDOL WORSHIPPERS

2. You will rarely find rational advice when it comes to dating or marriage if your sole purpose in life is to WORSHIP money. People that worship money make terrible teachers (of anything), terrible spouses, friends, coworkers, etc.

3. When money worshippers are not worshipping money, they are worshipping themselves. They cannot do anything for anyone else (let alone a spouse) because they are too busy trying to find someone else they can blame for their own failures and shortcomings and trying to find others who can serve their needs (only). They can never serve. They can only be served.

4. Entitlements and Pride are virtues (not vices) to money worshippers. They see no problem in telling others to not get married because they themselves (if they are married) are terrible spouses. How can anyone take advice from a group of proud money worshippers?

5. Feeding their pride is television, internet and the media. Why settle for marriage when you are being told 24/7 that IT is all about YOU? Don't like your current spouse? Great! Just kick them to the curb and get another one online! Like rock climbing, but your spouse doesn't? No problem. Just find another online! Frustrated that you cannot get your "fair share" from this marriage financially/emotionally/physically? Don't spend another minute worrying about it! Flush it and find another one! After all, it is all about you! You are the best and YOU deserve nothing but the best!

So, I'm not surprised by the widely held sentiment in here. It reflects a much larger problem at the society level.


Why you mad bro?

vstrt said:   jcb193 said:   So after reading the latest "never get married/don't trust women" thread (http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1188453/) I began to wonder why the fatwallet community is so anti-marriage? Is this a normal societal reaction, or does this website foster a certain kind of groupthink? Or does this website cater to people that have a pre-disposition to divorce/strife. There have to be many instances where marriage can be financially beneficial (raising a family, sharing resources, dividing expenses by 2 instead of one, mental health, quality of life), but those are obviously offset by divorce and cheating stories. Yes 50% of marriages end in divorce, but 100% of marriages thought they would succeed.

So I figure it comes down to four things:
1.) Fatwallet people put a higher-than-normal emphasis on money spent/saved, and many marriages are undone by financial differences. Hence, one could beget the other.
2.) This is the internet, where you can say what you want, even if you don't believe it.
3.) This site might have a higher population of socially-challenged people, or internet behaviors that impede a successful marriage.
4.) It's just normal to become disillusioned/realistic as you go through life and gain experience.

I know this is in the finance section, so I will ask why it is such a common bit of advise to not get married or not trust women on this forum. Is that really sound advice???? Would you say the same thing to your best friend that you would advise to a stranger?

PLEASE NOTE. I am not trying to sound condescending here. All four of the above points could easily apply to anyone or myself.


You missed some important reasons why FW folks appear to be anti-marriage:

1. The posters here are a tiny microcosm of society as a whole. It is not that FWers (and thereby society at large) are anti-marriage as much as they are (a) PROUD (b) SELFISH (c) ENTITLED (d) MISINFORMED (e) CONSUMERISTS (f) DISINFORMED (g) SELF SERVING (h) IDOL WORSHIPPERS

2. You will rarely find rational advice when it comes to dating or marriage if your sole purpose in life is to WORSHIP money. People that worship money make terrible teachers (of anything), terrible spouses, friends, coworkers, etc.

3. When money worshippers are not worshipping money, they are worshipping themselves. They cannot do anything for anyone else (let alone a spouse) because they are too busy trying to find someone else they can blame for their own failures and shortcomings and trying to find others who can serve their needs (only). They can never serve. They can only be served.

4. Entitlements and Pride are virtues (not vices) to money worshippers. They see no problem in telling others to not get married because they themselves (if they are married) are terrible spouses. How can anyone take advice from a group of proud money worshippers?

5. Feeding their pride is television, internet and the media. Why settle for marriage when you are being told 24/7 that IT is all about YOU? Don't like your current spouse? Great! Just kick them to the curb and get another one online! Like rock climbing, but your spouse doesn't? No problem. Just find another online! Frustrated that you cannot get your "fair share" from this marriage financially/emotionally/physically? Don't spend another minute worrying about it! Flush it and find another one! After all, it is all about you! You are the best and YOU deserve nothing but the best!

So, I'm not surprised by the widely held sentiment in here. It reflects a much larger problem at the society level.
Frugal person = narcissistic money worshiper. Got it.

Why don't you sell all your possessions, give it away, and walk the Earth barefoot? Hypocrite.

A good wife will be an unmatched asset. Imagine being sick and there's your wife, cooking chicken soup for you and washing your dishes

Love
Child-rearing
Sharing of resources
Mental health
Quality of life

All are benefits of being in a stable relationship, not of marriage.

In pre-technology days, the purpose of marriage was to assign offspring to a man. That is, if a married woman had a child, the man would believe that it was his and be expected to support it. Without a public, community-recognized declaration of partnership, there was no way to determine which man should support which child and where inheritances should go.

These days, we have DNA testing for that. Much more reliable.

In the absence of any real purpose, marriage has devolved into a way for people who don't really love each other to put on a facade of stability. "We're together because we're married, and therefore we're supposed to be" instead of "we're together because we want to be." Its a thin, paper patch over gaps in a relationship. When one person isn't really sure that they want to be there, they suddenly feel that they "need" to be married, a feeling that is led by the belief that signing a form and having a ceremony will cause whatever was lacking in the relationship to get better. No surprise, it doesn't.

My opinion is that if you're looking to marriage for stability, you should work on whatever is wrong in your relationship instead. It may be tough, but it is a more honest way forward than trying to wipe it all away with a certification from the government.

Its a bit of a catch 22. If your relationship has the qualities of a good marriage, then you don't need to be married. If you need to be married, your relationship doesn't have the qualities that it needs. FWF members tend to be high achievers. They are more likely to want to confront their problems directly than to paper over them.

Now, lets move away from relationship issues and look at marriage in terms relevant to a financial forum.

In purely practical terms, there is one advantage to marriage - access to a partner's group health insurance.

There are several disadvantages:
- If one partner gets in financial trouble - for instance a car accident whose costs exceed the limits of insurance - everything that both partners have is lost
- If there is a child with a health problem that cannot be covered by insurance, one partner can agree to let themselves cover the costs, go bankrupt and be supported by the other partner. Can't do that if assets are merged.
- Marriage tax penalty - Married couples often pay more in taxes than they would separately. This usually negates any health insurance savings.

I been on FW long enough to know the personal history of some of the posters that jump in every thread and say that. You know, the same type you meet at company party where there's never ending bitterness and woes of past mistreatment in the hand of women. Beside it's not related to finance, those are often the type who marry again in a heartbeat once they find that "love of their life"... again... and again...

Stay away from the negative types who never seems to learn from past mistakes.

Once you have kids. You already hit the reset button.

You life outside of work is no longer about you. Your home life is primarily about raising them.

If both parents get this, then there is a possibility of a functional relationship and functional children.

If either one of you are still trying to reach for your own status in the world, then it could get rough.

vstrt said:   
You missed some important reasons why FW folks appear to be anti-marriage:

1. The posters here are a tiny microcosm of society as a whole. It is not that FWers (and thereby society at large) are anti-marriage as much as they are (a) PROUD (b) SELFISH (c) ENTITLED (d) MISINFORMED (e) CONSUMERISTS (f) DISINFORMED (g) SELF SERVING (h) IDOL WORSHIPPERS

2. You will rarely find rational advice when it comes to dating or marriage if your sole purpose in life is to WORSHIP money. People that worship money make terrible teachers (of anything), terrible spouses, friends, coworkers, etc.

3. When money worshippers are not worshipping money, they are worshipping themselves. They cannot do anything for anyone else (let alone a spouse) because they are too busy trying to find someone else they can blame for their own failures and shortcomings and trying to find others who can serve their needs (only). They can never serve. They can only be served.

4. Entitlements and Pride are virtues (not vices) to money worshippers. They see no problem in telling others to not get married because they themselves (if they are married) are terrible spouses. How can anyone take advice from a group of proud money worshippers?

5. Feeding their pride is television, internet and the media. Why settle for marriage when you are being told 24/7 that IT is all about YOU? Don't like your current spouse? Great! Just kick them to the curb and get another one online! Like rock climbing, but your spouse doesn't? No problem. Just find another online! Frustrated that you cannot get your "fair share" from this marriage financially/emotionally/physically? Don't spend another minute worrying about it! Flush it and find another one! After all, it is all about you! You are the best and YOU deserve nothing but the best!

So, I'm not surprised by the widely held sentiment in here. It reflects a much larger problem at the society level.


Ooh, an angry post!

I'm not sure where you got your information on entitlement and pride from, but I'm fairly sure that putting others down because their opinions conflict with yours isn't a sign of moral goodness.

I suppose that I can see why you think that people who post on FWF are "money worshippers." Since it is a financial forum, all that people talk about is money. Rest assured, when they are not on a financial forum, FWF posters have interests which are not related to money.

The type of thinking that is put forward in your post - lots of caps, lots of enthusiasm, lots of anger but not much substance - is at the heart of the problem with marriage. Having some guy in a funny hat wave his arms over you and declare you to be in love won't give you a good relationship. Thats why more than 50% of married people cheat on their partners and most marriages end in divorce. The only way to have a good relationship is to put the guy in the funny hat aside and make mutual compromises with your partner to solve your issues. In the end, cohabitating and working things out the hard way is simply more honest than marriage.

Finally, I do have one admission to make: you've got me on item 1H. I recently acquired the idol from Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark, and I've been worshipping it like crazy. Om shaka laka, om weegee weegee, woo!


lots of good point here and i would have to say, for me, marriage isn't a must. I'm in a 3 year relationship and living with the girl. we are investing and saving together and she is my beneficiary on my life insurance policy. marriage, which will likely happen eventually, will be more for our parents and grandparents. why do i need to stand in a church and say a bunch of stuff that i already believe and practice. plus, marriage has never stopped people from doing stupid things like cheating, and if you're anything like the rest of society there will be a big (worthless) diamond ring and an expensive wedding ceremony to pay for before it's all over. more financial stress to worry about.
aside from the above, a short list of reasons i believe the divorce rate is where it's at now
1. women empowered to leave men who cheat unlike any previous time in history
2. general notion that if it's not perfect it must be wrong so move along
3. people can't keep their pants on
4. as others have said...children, once you have them it can't be all about you anymore. people want that freedom back and the way they can get it is to leave

vstrt said:   
The type of thinking that is put forward in your post - lots of caps, lots of enthusiasm, lots of anger but not much substance - is at the heart of the problem with marriage. Having some guy in a funny hat wave his arms over you and declare you to be in love won't give you a good relationship. Thats why more than 50% of married people cheat on their partners and most marriages end in divorce. The only way to have a good relationship is to put the guy in the funny hat aside and make mutual compromises with your partner to solve your issues. In the end, cohabitating and working things out the hard way is simply more honest than marriage.


if i wasn't typing at the same time i would've quoted this in my post...my sentiments exactly

delete

vstrt said:   
You missed some important reasons why FW folks appear to be anti-marriage:

1. The posters here are a tiny microcosm of society as a whole. It is not that FWers (and thereby society at large) are anti-marriage as much as they are (a) PROUD (b) SELFISH (c) ENTITLED (d) MISINFORMED (e) CONSUMERISTS (f) DISINFORMED (g) SELF SERVING (h) IDOL WORSHIPPERS


WTF? I feel like we've stepped back a few centuries. By the way, why is it when people go all indignantly self righteous on this board they lose their sense of spelling.

worshippers /= worshipers

nm

Unfortunately, given the society we live in marriage does not make any financial sense due to the predictable path it tends to take. Absent any strong value system to the contrary, most people will put their career/financial/personal ambitions ahead of their spouse and families. The numbers consistently show this. When people form a relationship in the first place in our society high up on most peoples priority list is physical beauty/ money, and guess what? There WILL be someone more attractive than you at the office, specially as time elapses and the initial infatuation with you fades as it always does. There will be someone who your spouse comes across who has more to offer financially than you do. Your spouse will do what just about everyone has come to consider acceptable- jump ship, or ride both ships. Hey, many of his/her friends have done it and are talking about it. The constant stream of articles in the Wall Street Journal on how to uncover your spouses secret activities/ hidden assets via key loggers and GPS tracking devices, and how to get over infidelity, are anecdotal evidence of this sad reality. The huge number of those who ADMIT to infidelity in surveys are such that I would not be shocked if the truth was much greater numbers if not near universal. Given the above, the financial considerations are simple. The lawyer fees will vastly out-weigh any initial savings-they can easily top 100k. Given the inevitability of the above, one would have to be insane to marry.

The one notable exception is among those who have strongly held religious beliefs about marriage and family, and the role of money/career in their lives. These groups tend to have a much larger percentage of happy marriages and fidelity to their spouses. They tend to separate themselves from their careers/ financial achievements, and place their spouses and families needs above their self-centered desires. Obviously this is not universally true even among these groups, but the odds are a whole lot better for a stable, happy marriage that allows for the financial benefits that come along with it. I know several such families personally, and curiously most of them are high earners, and fairly high achievers, though none are the I-sleep-at-the-office-my-firm-is-my-life type. If you fit the above, this would clearly change the financial equation. If not, refer to the above.

There is much to be said about whether we are truly better off, or happier than those naive, superstitious religious folks of yore that we smugly look down upon, but that is not finance related and must be left for a different discussion.

couponhed said:   ...Now, lets move away from relationship issues and look at marriage in terms relevant to a financial forum.

In purely practical terms, there is one advantage to marriage - access to a partner's group health insurance.

There are several disadvantages:
- If one partner gets in financial trouble - for instance a car accident whose costs exceed the limits of insurance - everything that both partners have is lost
- If there is a child with a health problem that cannot be covered by insurance, one partner can agree to let themselves cover the costs, go bankrupt and be supported by the other partner. Can't do that if assets are merged.
- Marriage tax penalty - Married couples often pay more in taxes than they would separately. This usually negates any health insurance savings.
Would a domestic partnership (in states that recognize them) allow access to partner's health insurance, while at the same time avoiding all the disadvantages you listed?

If marriage is viewed as business purely financial perspective, marriage is mostly so-so at best with few extreme successes and a lot of failures. Few successes would charge you money to show know-how while failures are free to post internet forums

This forum seems to be predominantly American men.

In our culture and family courts men are in general at greater financial risk than women if a marriage fails.

Men also tend(not saying this won't change) to be more career driven and choose higher paying fields etc etc...

In the post feminism society we live in many women unfortunately think independence is a hobby job like daycare or other low paying job and a man to provide the house payment.

Clearly it's not every scenario but I would say it's too prevalent to not be a factor in marriage being a bad financial choice for men today.

Dare I suggest that I proved my point?

...I think I have. The evidence for what I said in my post above is clearly demonstrated in many of the posts related to the topic.

Skipping 313 Messages...
This thread has strayed too far off topic and has been locked.



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