What % do FW'ers tip in a restaurant ?

NikeFace said:   mapen said:   Is the waiter/waitress bringing me a dry aged Wagyu steak working harder than the one serving me a Denny's Grand Slam breakfast? Based on the price of the items, why should one get a tip 10 times more than the other? I think the no tipping norms in Asia and Europe are more sensible.

I expect a lot of 'red' from those that have never been a server. 

Denny's vs kobe? Essentially, yes. 

The server working Denny's will have much lower checks but will likely have 5-7 tables in their section. Smaller checks = smaller tips. But more tables and likely turning them once or twice per hour means they do alright- if you tip 18-20%.

Now I work at your Kobe place... I probably have 3 tables total not 5-7. If three of you cheap asses take up all 3 tables, and leave me 15% (remember, before I tip out) I am having a bad night. Keep in mind people sit longer at nicer restaurants meaning I can't turn tables ( we call them campers - another story for another time). If I get cut, my night depends on you. If you're a bad tipper, I had a bad night.

Here's a customer take on the "Kobe" place. I am not a camper. I don't linger in restaurants. I'll order promptly, eat when it arrives, and be ready to pay in about 30 minutes after my entree arrives. I'm not needy, I won't pester you for this and that. One drink refill is going to be enough at dinner.

So start to finish I might be occupying a table for one hour, probably less. And with that in mind, there's a point at which a percentage-based tip doesn't make sense. I totally get that service quality should dictate the tip but if I don't need much service, it simply doesn't make sense to tip like I did. Not your fault. And I feel bad that you have to tip out the bartender, wine steward and the host on a % of sales, but there's a element of value involved. By the time my visit is over, I will have consumed maybe 3 minutes of the bartender's time, 2 minutes of the host's time, and 0 minutes of the wine steward's time. If those people + the busser get to split even 5% of my $300 check (= $15) that's too much, but that's not up to me, that's the restaurant's system. A better system would be to tip out the bartender based on drinks prepared, tip out the host on a per-party basis, and tip out the wine steward based on wine sales.

Percentage-based tipping isn't logical at the extremes. A $9 breakfast with coffee refills every 3 minutes requires more than a $2 tip... and a $60 tip on a $300 dinner is too much for an hour of a waiter's time, I don't care how amazing the service was. It's not possible to provide service so incredible that I will value it at $60 an hour when I don't need a lot of attention. There's a limit to what it is worth.

So perhaps in the future when you get a tip smaller than you think you were owed at an upscale place, think about how long the customer was there and how much service was required. You might find that you did OK for the amount of time you invested. And again I feel bad about the tip out problem, but I can't do anything about that. IMHO you're tipping out too much for a customer like me, but I don't feel I need to increase my tip because you are giving too much of it away.

Unreasonable to think waiters have 50 tables over a shift. Try 6 at a high end restaurant and as many as 20 at a chain like Chili's.

cpaynter said:   
What do other tippers do? And since there are servers who have chimed in on this thread, what do you have to say about tips left on cash vs. card?

If I pay with a card, and that's most of the time, I tip on the card. I don't understand why I'd go through the extra hastle of digging out cash so someone else can have an easier time cheating on their taxes.

I tip 20%, and adjust for service. If the service is poor, I tip less . . . generally 5-10% less. Only once was my service so bad that I left no tip at all.

What gets me, is I have noticed lately that wait staff gets really indignant when you simply get water for a beverage instead of a $3 soda. I go out with my extended family quite often (usually around 8-10 of us), and we have all taken to ordering water. Waiters / waitresses have been getting snotty because ordering water means $25-30 off the bill, and therefore less tip. Oh, well . . . times are tough all over, and money must be saved.

The other thing that is annoying me is this idea that everyone "deserves" a tip. You can't even get an ice cream cone at Dairy Queen anymore without seeing a tip jar at the counter. I agree with previous posters that the whole "Tip Model" needs to go away. It used to be a tip was a reward for excellent service, and nowadays people see a tip as something that is owed id the barest minimums of service are being met. it is getting troublesome. I even saw a tip jar at a convenience store the other day . . . are we really reaching a point where we are "supposed" to tip the guy who rang up a duet coke and a 3 musketeers bar? Sigh.

I am curious t hear other Fat Walleters opinions on this.

zoomddy said:   I even saw a tip jar at a convenience store the other day . . . are we really reaching a point where we are "supposed" to tip the guy who rang up a duet coke and a 3 musketeers bar? Sigh.That's less about expecting a tip, and more about the fact alot of people simply dont like loose change. So giving them a place to "dispose" of it is kind of enterprising. Labling as a "tip jar" just means the employee gets to keep the money, instead of it going into the store's coffers.

Argyll said:   aares said:   
Argyll said:   18% seems to be the standard in my area. I'm not sure why wait staff should be upset if they get a fairly low tip. It's more than if they had no one at all.

I frequently dine at places that don't require a tip, like Panera Bread, Chipotle Grill, Cosi, etc. and some local establishments in a similar vein. Most of them have a tip jar but it takes some effort to find it.

Again? Really? Its not hard to comprehend...if a waiter didnt have YOU in the seat, they would have SOMEONE ELSE in the seat. So its not you or nothing like most people in this thread seem to think, unless its 11PM at closing time.


That's simply not the case. If I wasn't there they would serve fewer people and get fewer tips. Today I ate breakfast at a diner some distance from my home. There was NO ONE at the table when I arrived. I took an empty table, got served, and left a tip. If I hadn't arrived the table would have remained empty for that period as there was no waiting line.

This is not rocket science -- I add to the customer base of any establishment. If I'm not there, there is one less customer and one less tip.

PS You say you will bend over backwards for a 20% tip. How do you know how much tip you are going to get ahead of time?But if you had not been there, the next person walking in the door would've been sat in the seat you took rather than the empty seat in someone else's section. The only server who gains from your incrimental business is the server who eventually gets the last table of the night - if not for you, their turn wouldn't have come up that final time.

If we're going to take these assumptions to their logical extreme no customer could show up and you guys would claim it makes no difference to the number of tips.

SantaLink said:   Can someone please explain the logic to me?
Why do people usually tip in a restaurant but no one tips in a BestBuy or safeway?
People still tip 10% for a bad service in a restaurant, but no one tip a BestBuy sales associate if they provide very good service?
Or why most people won't tip the staff in a grocery store who help bringing your bags to your car? But most people will tip a bellboy in a hotel?
Is it true that people just following the "norm"? Or is there something I am missing?

Hourly pay makes a difference. A server makes around $2 an hour in most states, before tips. A Best Buy sales associate will make around $8-11 an hour.

A hotel bellboy (as far as I know) makes a pretty low base hourly pay. A grocery store bagger makes around $7.50-9.00 an hour.

I would rather see servers or bellboys workers paid more hourly with a resulting lack of expectation of tips. However, what incentive do employers have to do so?

-mike

mikeg1 said:   SantaLink said:   Can someone please explain the logic to me?
Why do people usually tip in a restaurant but no one tips in a BestBuy or safeway?
People still tip 10% for a bad service in a restaurant, but no one tip a BestBuy sales associate if they provide very good service?
Or why most people won't tip the staff in a grocery store who help bringing your bags to your car? But most people will tip a bellboy in a hotel?
Is it true that people just following the "norm"? Or is there something I am missing?

Hourly pay makes a difference. A server makes around $2 an hour in most states, before tips. A Best Buy sales associate will make around $8-11 an hour.

A hotel bellboy (as far as I know) makes a pretty low base hourly pay. A grocery store bagger makes around $7.50-9.00 an hour.

I would rather see servers or bellboys workers paid more hourly with a resulting lack of expectation of tips. However, what incentive do employers have to do so?

-mike

Hi Mike,

Thank you for your info. I agrees with you if people earn $2/hour, we should pay tips to compensate them.

However, I am in CA and as far as I know, a server still earn minimum wage + tips here (please correct me if I am wrong).

So, I think in CA, the hourly wages does not make a difference, but still no one tips a very helpful staff in WalMart but still tip a lousy waiter.
I still feel that people tip because of the "norm" they need to follow but rather than appreciate the service and reward the good service provided.

kriskos4 said:   Unreasonable to think waiters have 50 tables over a shift. Try 6 at a high end restaurant and as many as 20 at a chain like Chili's.

I think OP said per day, and it's reasonable to work 2 shifts, so 2 x 20 = 40 and 50 are in the same ballpark. Now 6 tables at a high end restaurant assume 2 tables at 3 sittings or 3 tables at 2 sittings. That's quite generous. Also, it might be waiter & assistant waiter, managing 4-6 tables at those high end restaurants. On the other end of the spectrum, I've seen restaurants where the waiting staff was overworked, manning 8-10 tables at any given time. For a dinner shift between 5-9, there would be 3 or 4 sittings. Sometimes a similar ratio exist in a restaurant with around 40 tables and 4-5 floating staff. Aside from "your" waiter taking your order, any service involves flagging down waiters trying to avoid eye contact. Needless to say, lower service level is matched with a lower tip.

For normal (read:good) service I tip 20%, I don't know how people who say they tip 16 or 18% do it - do you whip at a calculator? 20% is easy math for me.

For carry out (where they bring it to my car) I tip but certainly not 20% they are doing work but not as much a sit-down server would and they clearly are making it up in volume so a lower tip makes sense.

aares said:   Enjoy the spit How do waiters know how much of a tip they are going to get ahead of time so they can mess with peoples food? Unless you are like to OP and eat at the same place again and again I don't see how they would remember average customers. I eat at lot of different restaurants and those restaurants have a lot of different servers - unless they are savants I don't see how a waiter could possibly remember me or my previous tip from when I last saw them six months ago. Seems like the wait staff at a lot of places turn over quite a bit as well.

I think tipping should be like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1ZZWhSvOMI

LOL at servers saying standard tip % has gone up because of inflation or cost of living increases. I suppose the cost of the food (and thus how much you get) didn't go up too?

winter said:   For normal (read:good) service I tip 20%, I don't know how people who say they tip 16 or 18% do it - do you whip at a calculator? 20% is easy math for me.

Divide the check by 6--that gets you to 16.67% as clemente21 above you said he aims for. Round down slightly and you're at about 16%; round up slightly to get closer to 18%.

mjoply said:   It states the server must be making minimum wage. If you would have made $50 a day with minimum wage and you are only making $20 with tips a day the employer must pay the difference of thirty dollars. If they do not they should be reported. No minimum wage is not a lot of money but servers are not making below it.

Good point. Server shifts, though, tend to be fairly short (and with a lot of off-the-clock time, especially between lunch/dinner shifts).

Your point is somewhat valid nonetheless. Thankfully, I didn't get too many low tippers!

-mike

SantaLink said:   Can someone please explain the logic to me?
Why do people usually tip in a restaurant but no one tips in a BestBuy or safeway?
People still tip 10% for a bad service in a restaurant, but no one tip a BestBuy sales associate if they provide very good service?
Or why most people won't tip the staff in a grocery store who help bringing your bags to your car? But most people will tip a bellboy in a hotel?
Is it true that people just following the "norm"? Or is there something I am missing?
The basic premise comes from the amount of work required being based on a customer count that isn't known until after-the-fact. If a majority of a server's income is tip-based, the restaurant can staff optimistically without taking a bath if the day's customer count sucks - or they staff conservatively and the servers are ran ragged if the day pops.

A grocery store usually has minimal staffing at the registers, but other employees on duty to also help out as needed. Servers (and bellhops, etc) don't have that luxury - when they're busy, their backups are also busy doing their own jobs.

No, it isn't perfect and various points can be made to the contrary. I said it's "the basic premise behind it", not the absolute reason. Over time it's evolved.

Argyll said:   If we're going to take these assumptions to their logical extreme no customer could show up and you guys would claim it makes no difference to the number of tips.Oh come on. You're just looking at it from the perspective of a customer of the business. Servers are selfish, they just care about their own tables and their own tips - no one goes home at the end of their shift talking about the amount of tips the staff made as a whole, they just worry about what's in their own pocket. It isnt an assumption to say that if you hadnt been in that seat when you were, that particular server would've receive a different allocation of the restaurant's customers. Of course you were incrimental gain to the restaurant; but your one table didnt necessarily help your particular server, you helped the server on the bottom rung where that incrimental table count trickled down to.

aares said:   I will be leaving the food service industry very soon, but for 20%+ tips, I will bend over backwards for the customer. They get all my attention, free appitizers, extra bread plus goodies to take home, no charge for regular beverages, take home beverages, sometimes free desserts, etc.

Way to stiff the restaurant owner and *steal* the extra beverage, dessert etc so you can make the extra tips.

BTW, this thread, like all tipping threads, won't go anywhere. The self-entitled waiter brigade will keep justifying why the consumer deserves "stuff" in their food for less than 15-20% tips and the other camp will vociferously try to win with logic in a hopelessly illogical system.

mojoshtudd said:   

BTW, this thread, like all tipping threads, won't go anywhere. The self-entitled waiter brigade will keep justifying why the consumer deserves "stuff" in their food for less than 15-20% tips and the other camp will vociferously try to win with logic in a hopelessly illogical system.

Actually I believe these threads at regular intervals do some good.
It keeps reminding the non tippers that they are potentially getting undesired freebies in food.
And it reminds the self entitled waiters that at the end of the day, they are just expecting free money for doing their job.

Amby said:   Restaurants (including fast food like subway etc) make a net profit of about 10% of the gross revenue.
A restaurant sells for somewhere between 40 and 60% of the annual revenue.
That means, a decently run place pays for its full cost in about 5 years. And is still worth the same, if not more, for the owner to sell to someone else.

An investment with 20% ROI is great in any market condition.
10% is generous.
40-60% of revenue is expensive. 1-2x annual profit is more realistic (plus the value of any tangible assets included in the sale).
20% ROI is very low compared to the risk, when even "successful" restaurants are here one day and gone tomorrow.

Of course, I dont have a clue how this is relevant to the thread topic.

Let's start at the top, shall we?

1. What % do FW'ers tip in a restaurant ?

A. Whatever they want.

2. Not sure if this is the right forum to post, but what do you think ?

A. This is the correct forum.

3. Is 15% bad ?

A. Depends, I'd appreciate it.

4. Should I just avoid going to the same restaurant every time ?

A. At least this one.

5. A waiter gets 15% for serving the customers, that's their only job, why don't they work properly ?

A. If their lucky; yeah, right; you're imputing a generalization; many do.

6. They make decent money, why do they have attitude ?

A. Some do, some don't; Some do, some don't; probably immaturity.

7. Am I being cheap ?

A. No, If you're tipping 15% you're getting attitude and being treated rudely.

(Hope this helps)

ETA: I tip nothing to 10% for bad service, 15% for satisfactory service, 20% for great service, and 25% for stellar service!