Screwed over by used car dealer posing as a private seller on craigslist.

I know 75% of what to do in order to recover money from this, but I'm always up for suggestions. Hopefully somebody with dealer issues can use this as a reference.

What happened in Arizona:
I found a post for a truck on craigslist from a private seller. Met the guy at a parking lot near both of us and test drove truck, inspected, and agreed to pay $4500. Title is in a woman's name, with a few dealer transfers, then ends in an individual, so looks ok.

I insist on a Bill of Sale, and he agrees, and he also wants a copy, and signs, but I forgot to print multiple copies, so I tell him I'll email him a copy when I scan it and get home. I had agreed to drop him off at his house but then he has me drop him off at a corner and walk home...this is where I knew something was wasn't on the up-and-up. He pesters me for a copy of the bill of sale, but I go defensive and ignore him until I make sure I can get it titled correctly.

I get to DMV and they pitch a fit and won't title it because it's registered to a dealership. I give up trying to get them to push it through and instead go to a 3rd party title place and talk them into it. They look up the dealership info, make the paperwork and make me pay something like 8.5% (let's just say $380). He signed as an individual, but they found his dealer #.

I call the guy back (he used GV), email, text, he disappears...great, I'm screwed for $380. I also later get a "use tax" audit and have to pay an extra $70. So around $450 total.

I managed to look up his dealer # that the 3rd party title was able to find, find his "place of business" which is in Oregon, and his mailing address is in AZ (near where I dropped him off on a corner).

What I've done so far:
Contacted Oregon's dealer complaint department to let them know he is representing himself as an individual and he lives in AZ. They're sending an investigator over to his lot. They've also gave me his surety bond # and company it is with if I want to make a claim against it.

I've contacted the Oregon department of justice and am opening a formal complaint that he is representing himself as an individual.

Contacted Arizona DOT dealer investigations and told them he is acting/selling as an unlicensed dealership in AZ. He can effectively sell cars at 0% sales tax if he fills Oregon paperwork out (and evade AZ tax) or he can do nothing and screw me over on AZ taxes that I didn't expect to pay. They were VERY happy to go after him because I have scanned documents, dealer name/address, home address, contact name, etc. to build a good case.

He has ZERO paperwork signed by me. As a dealer, he's required to have all sorts of paperwork. He has no bill of sale. I don't think he even knows my full name because he expected me to send a bill of sale.

Question:
The surety bond company said I just submit a claim via email/fax/paper with a description of what happened and what I'm requesting...very informal. His bond is for $40k.

Does anybody have any experience making a claim against a surety bond?

I'm wondering if I should try and sue him in AZ small claims ($2500 max) for tax that I wasn't expecting to pay that I factored into cost of truck, court fees, time spent...I can't really think of much else. I have his name and home address, so I should be able to get him service. I could try and request treble damages because I considered it fraud.

I'd cross my fingers he doesn't show and I win a big default judgement...then I can just submit that to the surety company and get a claim? I don't know how surety bonds work.

Any suggestions on how to pursue? He should have no way to make a case that he represented himself as a dealership.

/head asplodes/

SUCKISSTAPLES said:   So all this and you're happy with the car itself?

Tell him to meet you on a corner with $400 cash and be done with it.

If he agrees, Why go through all this Trouble?

He had a google voice number he turned off so I can't get a hold of him. This happened maybe 8 months ago and I've since sold the truck. I bought it to help move. Also, as a dealership, he should be fined/punished for the fraud...I don't want him doing this to other people. Normally I'd have to get a Class 1 inspection $90+ and pay additional taxes/fees. It's a giant nightmare at the DMV that takes at least 2-3 hours. I had to do it once before.

Does AZ not have sales tax on private party car sales? Even if that's the case, I don't understand how you are out $450 as you bought it from a dealer, so you owe sales tax.

If the vehicle was $4950, would you have bought it?

Did the truck not have dealer tags when you bought it? How did you drive it home?

How much did you sell the truck for ? A profit ?

If you sold at a loss due to the title issues you might have a compensable claim, but there's no way you're getting paid for your time/hassle , ESP if you resold at a profit

SUCKISSTAPLES said:   How much did you sell the truck for ? A profit ?

If you sold at a loss due to the title issues you might have a compensable claim, but there's no way you're getting paid for your time/hassle , ESP if you resold at a profit

I can't exactly remember what I sold the truck for. I want to say $5200 cash, but wrote the bill of sale up for $3-4k at the buyer's request. No tax, so I'm not sure why he wanted it like that. Plates/registration was around $500.

I was thinking fraud meant I could try and claim treble damages and let the judge decide if I get it or not. Or is it even worth a small claims case? I figured that'd make the surety bond place pay out without question if I had a judgement.

Al3xK said:   I want to say $5200 cash, but wrote the bill of sale up for $3-4k at the buyer's request. Yet you want to pursue a fraud claim?

So, you haven't really been harmed other than time and are looking to pocket a maximum of $400 for a lot of effort and potentially be on the hook for court costs if you don't win. This sounds like a bad idea, but it's a free country and I will enjoy the thread.

Forget about it. Everybody gets screwed once in a while. Its not worth the hassle.

lewiswb said:   I knew Arizona was having trouble with fraudulent immigrants, didn't know they were also coming in from Oregon.
Was the guy middle eastern by any chance ??

Lots of shady car dealers are funding terrorism

SUCKISSTAPLES said:   Was the guy middle eastern by any chance ??
Lots of shady car dealers are funding terrorism

Is there a joke in here that I missed
OR
Does SIS have an inside track with the FBI/CIA?

Is this guy named Tom Gom... and was the car you bought on the lot of a vehicle service center like Dave's?

I ask because I'm in GV and considering buying a van for my daughter. Dave's tells me the guy has dealer plates when I asked how I can test drive the vehicle.

Send me a PM if I'm close.

CL is a effing mess for used cars. I encountered 6 dealers who were actually fake owners before I could actually meet a real owner and bought my car.

I don't know much about the laws involved, but it sounds like the OP was trying to avoid paying taxes, and he ran into someone less honest than he.

The state will go after him very slowly. My sale to another individual shouldn't really have any bearing on this case. As I said, I do not recall the sale price as it was cash, and there is almost no way to prove what the sale price was beyond what the bill of sale says. It doesn't matter either way what the bill of sale says as long as I paid taxes on it, which I did.

I could say I sold the vehicle for $4k and he gave me an extra $1200 cash because he felt generous, because I paid taxes on it.

If you're implying that I might have to file bankruptcy because of the second transfer to another individual, I think you're stretching reality a bit.

I was going after this guy because I had this happen to a friend as well, then I got a letter from the city saying I needed to pay an additional "use tax" that put me over the edge a bit.

The courthouse I'd sue him in is literally 2 blocks from my house, so it's very convenient for me, and I am salary and can take off any time I need off of work.

I think if I file a claim against his surety bond, I'm just giving him data to prepare a fake defense. The surety company would ask for the copy of the bill of sale with signatures on it, to which he could make fake paperwork easily off of.

I appreciate it rick, but he used to own a dealership that I don't think even operates. He just has a license so he can buy from Manheim/Adesa/Openlane and resell. Also he has probably 3 dealer plates he can put on any car and not pay registration on them.

I actually looked through the paperwork and saw I paid a tad more for the truck and taxes than I guestimated. I submitted the following claim letter:

To whom it may concern,

I’m making a claim against bond [Redacted], dealer number [Redacted] for $630.88.
[Redacted] falsely represented himself as a private seller on craigslist and sold me a [TRUCK] under the pretenses that there would be no sales tax because he was a private seller.
I met him in a parking lot, paid him $4750.00 cash for the vehicle, and upon attempting to register it, I was told that it was owned by a dealership.

He has a license to sell vehicles in Oregon only, and lives in Arizona and sold the vehicle in person in Arizona as an unlicensed dealer. Oregon requires a variety of supporting paperwork for vehicle sales that he will fail to produce. I’ve also reported the dealership to Oregon’s dealer complaint department, Oregon Department of Justice, and Arizona Department of Transportation Dealer Complaints for failing to legally disclose he is operating as a dealer, operating in Arizona as an unlicensed dealer, and to the DOJ for fraud.

Attached you will find:
• [TRUCK] Registration with taxes listed ($248.50+$313.50)
• Letter from City of Scottsdale requiring additional use tax @ 1.45% ($68.88)
• Receipt of payment for use tax

Sincerely,
[Al3xK]
[EMAIL]@gmail.com
[PHONE]

wait you said this:
I found a post for a truck on craigslist from a private seller. Met the guy at a parking lot near both of us and test drove truck, inspected, and agreed to pay $4500. Title is in a woman's name, with a few dealer transfers, then ends in an individual, so looks ok.

And your surprised to find out something wasn't on the up and up?

soundtechie said:   I don't know much about the laws involved, but it sounds like the OP was trying to avoid paying taxes, and he ran into someone less honest than he.

omg, i busted out laughing so hard when i read this.

lurker8498 said:   wait you said this:
I found a post for a truck on craigslist from a private seller. Met the guy at a parking lot near both of us and test drove truck, inspected, and agreed to pay $4500. Title is in a woman's name, with a few dealer transfers, then ends in an individual, so looks ok.

And your surprised to find out something wasn't on the up and up?

I think this is what you get for buying anything off craigslist in general.

gendos said:   Friend of mine bought brand new vehicle in another state(from a real dealer ) , he did not pay any taxes in the state he purchased , paid taxes in his home state . I do not see why this would not apply to you ?? Too many IFs

All this depends on which state you are in. In NV, if you buy a vechile from a dealer (in or out of state) you have to pay sales tax in the state you bought the car. Then if the sales tax paid was lower than the total would have been in NV you have to pay the difference when you register the car in NV. If the car is a private party sale there is no sales tax paid in the state of NV. The number of cars that can be sold by an individual in a year to not be considered a dealer is 3.

Can't hurt to offer less. Sounds like a small time car flipper more likely. That new of a Mercedes, he probably bought to just drive some and make a few bucks on. What he's doing is such a grey area, but I'd assume his volume is so low that no state is going to go after him.

That's what I figured. I was concerned about going to the DMV and discovering something like a tax lien against it.