Screwed over by used car dealer posing as a private seller on craigslist.

My guess about what is happening here (in part) is what I call The Superhero Complex, as I used to have it.

I used to think that in a situation like this, even though there is no money lost, the principle is at stake here and this person should not be able to commit a crime/fraud like this. There was a self imposed need to serve justice.

Nowadays, I look at the cost-benefit/time-loss of the situation. Usually, it isn't worth pursuing.

F it. Pursue this jerk. At least make his life difficult. I can't tell you how many times I averted purchasing a used car from a "private seller" only to find out that they are really a used car dealer. I'm sick of these scammers.

JaxFL said:   This poster isn't a rube. Op saw title chain and knew what was happening. No private owner sells with a title not registered. OP stated bought vehicle for move, so now that it cost more , to move, and to flip vehicle , the plan didn't work out as intended. TOO BAD. Also OP sells car and shows reduced price for new owner on title/sale contract. Now op is hating the player , and maybe the game.

I feel more foolish than anything for being so trusting. I met the older (60's) guy, he seemed genuine and the story he made up about selling for his son's wife (or whatever he said) was believable. It was when he had me drop him off on the corner that it hit me that I might be on the wrong end of the deal. I've not misrepresented anything in this thread, so take from it what you want. Hindsight is always 20/20...so everything is clear now.

gendos said:   I don't think you have a case. He is registered in Oregon as a dealer, no reason he could not sell as individual in Arizona. If he would represent himself as dealer in Arizona (without having paperwork) - then you could have a case. He could say that he sold you car ‘as is’ and it’s your responsibility to pay whatever tax (you don’t have any paperwork that he collected taxes from you on behalf of the state ) . He could be registered as wholesale dealer and might have different law covering him ?? Who knows - objectively you have 50/50 chance of winning/loosing and might need to cover his legal costs if you lose .

I believe he has no authority to collect any taxes or even inform you about it (unless he is registering car as MVA/DMV agent and registering your car and provides new tags )

Friend of mine bought brand new vehicle in another state(from a real dealer ) , he did not pay any taxes in the state he purchased , paid taxes in his home state . I do not see why this would not apply to you ?? Too many IFs

Oregon (among other states) requires that dealers must make it known that they're operating as a dealer. Oregon is actually more strict than other states because of the 0% sales tax. I have around $650 of damages from unexpected sales tax. Arizona doesn't allow out of state dealers to sell in AZ without being a licensed dealership. If I were to buy online, and he was operating out of Oregon, that'd be a different story, but since the entire transaction occurred in AZ, it's subject to AZ law and AZ sales tax.

foghorn19 said:    <snip> A person with a LinkedIn profile is much more likely to have taken decent care of the vehicle.

Wut? Since when is having an online profile an indicator that someone takes care of their things?

I think the point is to know who you are buying from. Ideal situation is to buy car from the driveway of the owner, name on title is the same person you are dealing with, and check their license to verify. Funny thing, people are much less likely to scam you or sell you a lemon when you could literally bring it right back to their doorstep.

Even if you're dealing with someone at a parking lot, I would insist that the name on the title match their license. Anything else is a scam. Facebook, Linkedin, etc could give you more verification of who a person if you doubt the validity of the license, but a better strategy is if you have any doubts aboiut who you're dealing with just stop and do not go through with the deal.

Totally disagree. With all the bull#### that he put you through, I would go after him for everything he's worth and get him shut down. Do you think you're the first person he's ever screwed? No, you're the first person that he screwed that had the brains and fortitude to go after him.
I hate crooks with a passion. Take him down for all the trouble he's put you through.

Good luck with this and keep us posted on how it turns out!

ok newbie here when it comes to private party car buying
i am in texas

so if i see a car in CL that i like, how should i go about buying it?

Some people are just determined that OP must be trying to be shady somehow. Probably not entitled to the rebate or the class-action, either.

mrkk said:   bigStax said:   F it. Pursue this jerk. At least make his life difficult. I can't tell you how many times I averted purchasing a used car from a "private seller" only to find out that they are really a used car dealer. I'm sick of these scammers.

hmm now lets start a donation fund to help this guy pursue, 5$ each?

SIS, what happened to that CAT?
Sadly it died . The kitty was helpless. Op seems to have a good head on his shoulders and is already pursuing the dealer bond. I suspect he will get something out of this

jerosen said:   NotSoHard said:   foghorn19 said:    <snip> A person with a LinkedIn profile is much more likely to have taken decent care of the vehicle.

Wut? Since when is having an online profile an indicator that someone takes care of their things?

Seriously. What does linkedin have to do with buying a used car? I'm not hiring them to be my regional account manager.

Should we also check their Facebook page to see if they are tagged in any photos while using a beer funnel?

If you believe LinkedIn info is always 100% useless in buying a used car, then you can stay happy in your ignorance. I don't need to convince you of the usefulness of social networking profiles as additional, secondary checks on the other party. I used LinkedIn to a great effect when I bought a used luxury car, so I know what I am talking about.

This is the reason why I don't want to purchase online.

lurker8498 said:   foghorn19 said:   jerosen said:   NotSoHard said:   foghorn19 said:    <snip> A person with a LinkedIn profile is much more likely to have taken decent care of the vehicle.

Wut? Since when is having an online profile an indicator that someone takes care of their things?

Seriously. What does linkedin have to do with buying a used car? I'm not hiring them to be my regional account manager.

Should we also check their Facebook page to see if they are tagged in any photos while using a beer funnel?

If you believe LinkedIn info is always 100% useless in buying a used car, then you can stay happy in your ignorance. I don't need to convince you of the usefulness of social networking profiles as additional, secondary checks on the other party. I used LinkedIn to a great effect when I bought a used luxury car, so I know what I am talking about.

Really, tons of people don't even use linkedin. I think the real question is much LNKD do you own?
You must have gotten an A+ in logic class.
Not everybody uses LinkedIn != Nobody uses LinkedIn
Not everybody uses LinkedIn != There is no useful information you can get from checking someone out on LinkedIn

Aren't you liable for sales tax regardless of who you bought if from? If I'm not mistaken, your complaint in court would be "I thought I was buying this car from an individual so that I could cheat the state out of sales tax, but the seller was really a dealer and complied with the law anyway."

Wacky. Now all private party sales agreements are going to have to say "I represent that I'm not an auto dealer and agree to pay (sales tax %) of the value if I lied."

NotSoHard said:   "Jesus Christ has a LinkedIn profile, so he's a trustworthy source for purchasing a used vehicle."

which jesus? there are apparently several!

Update: Oregon dealer just called me and left a voicemail. Said he's sorry for the confusion and I had met with his Dad (in AZ) and he's more than happy to give me the $630.88 in taxes I had to pay and didn't intend to defraud me or the city. He said his surety bond company was contacting him, Oregon's dealer division, and his Dad had received letters from AZ's dealer investigation unit.

If he cuts me a check without pitching a fit, I'll respond to any inquires by either state and say it was amicably resolved. I don't want to see the guy lose his livelihood.

There is still some shady stuff going on because the dealer mailing address is at his father's address, but the business address is in Oregon. And google maps street view shows zero dealerships at the Oregon address. It could be a warehouse though, so I'm not sure on that.

Well played Sir.

brucehornsby said:   I wouldn't let him off as easy. I have a dealer's license in OR. It's illegal here to pose as a private seller, as well as to sell a vehicle at a location other than your "lot"(we don't have a distinction between wholesale and retail in Oregon - you're either a dealer or you're not - you still have to conduct business at your registered commercial location). We have a huge problem with this due to there being no sales tax, plates stay with the car and often times people don't transfer the title to their name until the tags expire. I'm a small dealer without a typical lot and mostly do it as a hobby, but because of shady, and illegal, activity like this it's the honest dealers(yes, there are some) and the consumers who end up paying the most.

It's apparent his intent was to never have to be in contact with you again, likely because he's doing something illegal or he anticipated issues with the truck. My guess is he's done this many, many times and knows how to play the system. I would say he has probably been banned from getting a dealer's license in Oregon due to past misconduct and now he's using his son's name.

Hmm...that would make sense about him being banned. The voicemail from the son is the first time I have had any contact with the "owner".

But the mailing address being in his father's name, and the fact that I saw several titles in the father's briefcase would follow with your hunch.

I feel like asking for much more borders on the extortion line. Perhaps the "time and trouble" that SIS mentioned would make sense.

I looked closer at the taxes that I originally claimed, and maybe $100-200 of it I would have had to pay regardless...I just blindly looked at anything that said "tax" beside it and listed it as a complaint. True out of pocket taxes were close to $450. Not sure if I should be greedy beyond the $630.88 he agreed to pay...

I think the state's wheels are in motion to go after him too, so I'd like to get my $ and get out before he realizes he's still in some trouble.

So he called me back and sounded like a pretty genuine guy, but who knows if his story is legit or not. Turns out he doesn't live in Oregon now, and has to fly back to meet with the investigator because of the report I filed. He set up the corp so that his retired father could have something to do, and he said he sells a couple cars a month.

It was one of his father's first sales apparently and he didn't know how to transfer the title to his name. This would make sense because with 0% sales tax, it should have only cost around $20 to transfer the title to himself instead of the $630 it'll cost him now.

I'm going to tell his father to meet me at my office and just drop off the cash and I'll give him a letter that says the confusion has been resolved so that he can keep operating. He is still going to get a bunch of grief from the state. I've honestly only had to put in maybe 1-2 hours of work and for an extra $100-200, it could really sour how smoothly this might go over...so I'm content with the $630 cash.

Al3xK said:   So he called me back and sounded like a pretty genuine guy, but who knows if his story is legit or not. Turns out he doesn't live in Oregon now, and has to fly back to meet with the investigator because of the report I filed. He set up the corp so that his retired father could have something to do, and he said he sells a couple cars a month.

It was one of his father's first sales apparently and he didn't know how to transfer the title to his name. This would make sense because with 0% sales tax, it should have only cost around $20 to transfer the title to himself instead of the $630 it'll cost him now.

I'm going to tell his father to meet me at my office and just drop off the cash and I'll give him a letter that says the confusion has been resolved so that he can keep operating. He is still going to get a bunch of grief from the state. I've honestly only had to put in maybe 1-2 hours of work and for an extra $100-200, it could really sour how smoothly this might go over...so I'm content with the $630 cash.

Sounds like a pretty genuine guy? His father has you contact him using a GV number and then disconnects the number to evade you? I think it's more like he knows he can be in some pretty serious trouble unless he makes you go away. I'd ask for an even $1,000. This gives you a couple hundred for your troubles and is a pretty fair number, considering.