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They are going to need to solve that issue somehow. Otherwise you theoretically could be stuck unable to pay at a location that doesn't accept AMEX or Discover and you have it set as your primary. It seems doubtful that the Wallaby could act as a workaround to like use a AMEX card at a gas station that doesn't take AMEX (since the gas station ultimately pays AMEX a fee... how's that going to work? They pay Wallaby and Wallaby pays AMEX?). I imagine the same deal as the dream scenerio of it working as a Debit card.

They commented they were going to support all major cards including PenFed. I was thinking it was going to be more like Envaulted's or MyLinkable's coverage of just a bunch of credit cards with some major ones left out. So theoretically that's good news if they follow through.

mattun said:   Why wouldn't it technically be feasible? My guess is it somehow works like generated temporary virtual numbers (like Discover and Citi had). But instead it's the second stage (which the credit card is chosen from a lookup table) where the CC changes instead of the first (the disposable number).

Because a credit card is just a piece of plastic with a magnetic strip on it- It gives the same information every time you use it to the POS system. There isn't a network connection and the POS certainly isn't going to do the work for you. Developing a 'smart card' that communicated with a website every time you swiped it would be insanely expensive and impossible to 'give away' or to be cost effective for this purpose.

The only way I see to do this is to create 'middleware'...

"Why didn't I think of that?"

They're also past the first 1,000 sign ups according to their facebook page. Of course, I signed up just before seeing that.

tante said:   so I put all my credit card numbers here and hope it doesn't get hacked? no thanks.
There was a lot of security concern at the beginning of the envaulted thread as well. Granted, they're not an excellent example, but there were really never any security issues (that I know of). With that said, of course we'll all want to find out a little bit more before adding any personal info.

As far as how it works, other than the fact that I obviously have no idea, and I'm probably being a little naive as to how these transactions work in general, the video makes it seem like you'll swipe the card at say a grocery store, and it will select your AMEX and just send the purchase over to them. It of course has to look to AMEX like you just swiped your AMEX at the store in order for you to get the 6%. I would assume it all has to happen quickly because of the problem of a vendor only accepting certain types of payments, or of course actual card declines.

Watching the video, I am under the impression they will know things like the Forward card is 5% on books, the appropriate AMEX is 6% on groceries, the Freedom is 5% on x, y, and z this month, but also allow the user to enter certain information. Maybe: always use card X at Publix. Or use the NFL card for the first $1,250 in June, July, and August.

No bank will like this service. It completely takes away any hope of attracting a customer with a generous CashBack category and trying to get them to use your card for everything. Except the bank that purchases it.

http://www.linkedin.com/company/wallaby-financial-inc-

You can get to the founder's page through there. The name is private, although the email I got from them was signed Michael Goldman. You can see his previous ventures, including Green Dot.

While I'm at it:

https://www.facebook.com/wallabyfinancial

http://twitter.com/wallabycard

Zaos said:   The only way this works and to preserve the rewards for categories as advertised is to present different card numbers when swiped. Thus, kinda like the programmable mag stripe the associations were showing off a couple years back.

How this has to work, as mentioned:

Phone or card detects where location, confirms merchant with user
Phone programs or card reprograms itself to present the appropriate magstripe info of the card to be used (eg. Forward at a bookstore) when swiped
Card gets swiped, for all the POS knows, it's the forward since the magstripe is a clone
Rinse & Repeat

The reason it cannot be routed through wallaby and be displayed as wallaby on your statement is because it would break the category bonus. wallaby != restaurant != bookstore != movie => no 5%.

Dawgswin said:   nick555 said:   

.by doesn't mean that the site is run by some criminal organization in Belarus. They probably chose .by because it fits in nicely with their site name, instead of going for wallaby.com

eg. TV stations like to register as .tv http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.tv


Welllll, using an easy way of identifying your brand and product (TV station) is a bit different than representing yourself as being in another country. It begs the question why they're in Belarus....or appear to be in Belarus.


Bit.ly
Del.icio.us

It's just the TLDs. Most gTLDs can be registered by anyone.

I wonder what would happen at a merchant, such as Lowe's, who enters the last four of the card number into their POS.

Serve, which is AMEX, can pull money from your linked Visa/MC when used at a merchant that accepts AMEX only, such as Costco. So, I don't see why the reverse can't be true (for this Visa card to pull money from AMEX at a merchant who does not take AMEX). Of course, it is unclear how disputes or chargebacks would be handled.

Zaos said:   

How this has to work, as mentioned:

Phone or card detects where location, confirms merchant with user
Phone programs or card reprograms itself to present the appropriate magstripe info of the card to be used (eg. Forward at a bookstore) when swiped
Card gets swiped, for all the POS knows, it's the forward since the magstripe is a clone
Rinse & Repeat

The reason it cannot be routed through wallaby and be displayed as wallaby on your statement is because it would break the category bonus. wallaby != restaurant != bookstore != movie => no 5%.


Why couldn't Wallaby just tag all transactions for the "real" CC company? Maybe they have deals with them to do so? Maybe they are just acting as a proxy (middleman)?

I have a hard time imagining a real-time cloning/reprogramming operation going on each time you swipe the card. It almost has to be all offline and on their end, doesn't it?

cKGunslinger said:   

Why couldn't Wallaby just tag all transactions for the "real" CC company? Maybe they have deals with them to do so? Maybe they are just acting as a proxy (middleman)?

I have a hard time imagining a real-time cloning/reprogramming operation going on each time you swipe the card. It almost has to be all offline and on their end, doesn't it?


I agree, it's not cloning anything on the fly. I don't know enough about CC backend systems to comment intelligently... but. I would guess that it reads the merchant information and gets a category from that during authorization. Generally cards are authorized and then the actual charge goes through when the merchant 'batches out' at the end of the night. By that time some kind of magic happens on the back end to re-route that authorization to be closed on the appropriate card. I suppose technically, instead of cloning our card to the merchant, they could be cloning the merchant back to the bank. i.e. transmitting the charge back to AMEX/discover/chase/whatever by providing the merchant information. Although that seems like it would probably be against some type of regulation.

I have a hard time seeing AMEX/chase etc playing game- 'what oh sure you want to game the system to get us to pay out the most points, how may we help?'

cKGunslinger said:   Zaos said:   

How this has to work, as mentioned:

Phone or card detects where location, confirms merchant with user
Phone programs or card reprograms itself to present the appropriate magstripe info of the card to be used (eg. Forward at a bookstore) when swiped
Card gets swiped, for all the POS knows, it's the forward since the magstripe is a clone
Rinse & Repeat

The reason it cannot be routed through wallaby and be displayed as wallaby on your statement is because it would break the category bonus. wallaby != restaurant != bookstore != movie => no 5%.


Why couldn't Wallaby just tag all transactions for the "real" CC company? Maybe they have deals with them to do so? Maybe they are just acting as a proxy (middleman)?

I have a hard time imagining a real-time cloning/reprogramming operation going on each time you swipe the card. It almost has to be all offline and on their end, doesn't it?


Check out the Geode iCache. http://www.icache.com/
Working with cc companies is a losing proposition; firstly, they aren't likely to jump aboard easily. Second, it'll just be a pain to sign them up one by one, and that'll affect adoption too.

Programming a magstripe is trivial in comparison. A writer to write a dumb card can be had for less than a hundred; the iCache uses a different smartchip based method.

ryoung81 said:   cKGunslinger said:   

Why couldn't Wallaby just tag all transactions for the "real" CC company? Maybe they have deals with them to do so? Maybe they are just acting as a proxy (middleman)?

I have a hard time imagining a real-time cloning/reprogramming operation going on each time you swipe the card. It almost has to be all offline and on their end, doesn't it?


I agree, it's not cloning anything on the fly. I don't know enough about CC backend systems to comment intelligently... but. I would guess that it reads the merchant information and gets a category from that during authorization. Generally cards are authorized and then the actual charge goes through when the merchant 'batches out' at the end of the night. By that time some kind of magic happens on the back end to re-route that authorization to be closed on the appropriate card. I suppose technically, instead of cloning our card to the merchant, they could be cloning the merchant back to the bank. i.e. transmitting the charge back to AMEX/discover/chase/whatever by providing the merchant information. Although that seems like it would probably be against some type of regulation.

This isn't possible because they wouldn't be able to insert themselves between the merchant to issuing bank chain. Well, they could if they hacked every establishment people would go to, but that isn't a very good business plan.

I feel like this is very half-baked. On one hand, digital payments will be the future someday, and at that point specific credit card company relationships with specific consumers will become less relevent. But for now, I can't IMAGINE any credit card company supporting this. I can't imagien them still offering to give out these great bonuses and points, while relegating their card to the closet. They want you to use their card for every purchases, not just the chosen categories. The only way I see this being successful is if the credit card companies decide to start punishing the vendor with higher fees, as they will likely lose any customer loyalty when digital payments become mainstream. The one-size fits all credit card is the first step in that direction.

Until after the 'beta', and after we really get some information on how the back-end works I don't think we'll really be able to pass judgment. I signed up for one, if I get in on the beta I'll be sure to report back.

jcb193 said:   But for now, I can't IMAGINE any credit card company supporting this. I can't imagien them still offering to give out these great bonuses and points, while relegating their card to the closet. They want you to use their card for every purchases, not just the chosen categories.

Isn't this what everyone does anyway? The never use the Chase Freedom when it is not 5%. After June it will sit untouched until next year.

This thing seems cool but is it really that hard to remember which card gets you the most points? Most wallets can hold at least five cards. I never have trouble switching cards to get the most CashBack.

I think it's different when the actual credit card won't even be in your wallet. And I assure you that plenty of people still spend on cards, even when they aren't getting bonuses. Some people are more vigilant than others.

jcb193 said:   I think it's different when the actual credit card won't even be in your wallet. And I assure you that plenty of people still spend on cards, even when they aren't getting bonuses. Some people are more vigilant than others.
It would take Wallaby getting a decent market share for the CC companies to care. As others have said, there is a subset of people (mostly FWF) that already does this in their head.

I thought credit card companies only cared about their cards being used and then crossing their fingers that you'd only pay the minimum and they could collect interest.

I guess this is just another question to add to the pile, and is dependent on other answers, but--Wouldn't merchants be against this more than the CC companies since they pay a lot of the higher fees for rewards cards?

I'll give it a shot, thanks OP.

mjoply said:   

Isn't this what everyone does anyway? The never use the Chase Freedom when it is not 5%. After June it will sit untouched until next year.


Your joking right? No the majority of people don't spend time thinking about stuff like this. Your on FWF remember

I pitched this exact concept back in 2010 and struck out...
MuckerLab Accelerator
Santa Monica, CA

It was back when I was living in SM too so it would have circulated locally. Anyone know the name of the founder?

jkimcpa said:   I pitched this exact concept back in 2010 and struck out...
MuckerLab Accelerator
Santa Monica, CA

It was back when I was living in SM too so it would have circulated locally. Anyone know the name of the founder?

William Hsu, Co-founder,
Wallaby founder and CEO, Matthew Goldman
Text and Text

dukerau said:   jcb193 said:   I think it's different when the actual credit card won't even be in your wallet. And I assure you that plenty of people still spend on cards, even when they aren't getting bonuses. Some people are more vigilant than others.
It would take Wallaby getting a decent market share for the CC companies to care. As others have said, there is a subset of people (mostly FWF) that already does this in their head.


I agree with this. And to get that kind of share, it would need to be a free service. Almost none of us would pay $50 to optimize something we already optimize on our own so that's a significant user base that's out the window. To me it all comes down to if you're interested in maxing rewards, you would never pay for the service because by paying for the service you are no longer maxing. You're maxing minus $50. On the other hand if you don't already max, then you probably don't care enough to spend $50 to start maxing. I'm sure there's a small niche of users that fall in between but not enough to sustain a business.

Are there any decent apts that accomplish this? Seems like a category reminder system might solve this for the slightly ditzy mult-card owners who don't want to pay $50 a year. I don't think I'm alone in having the problem of personally having all the credit card bonus percentages worked out in my head, but my wife still forgetting stuff like which one is the gas card (even though the PenFed literally has been THE dedicated gas card for nearly two years).

mjoply said:   This thing seems cool but is it really that hard to remember which card gets you the most points? Most wallets can hold at least five cards. I never have trouble switching cards to get the most CashBack.

Here's a real conversation I actually had with my wife last friday, after she filled the car with gas (most of the time I do it)

Me: You used your penfed card, right?
Her: No, I used Chase?
Me: You should have used your penfed.
Her: It's alright, I get 5% back on gas on my Chase.
Me: Yeah...starting July 1. It's still June.
Her: Well how should I know, when is the last time I put gas in the car.
Me: 2 months ago, but the penfed card has been 5% on gas ever since you got the card 5 years ago
Her: I don't know that
Me: And I mentioned it 2 weeks ago when you told me you signed up your chase card.

LordKronos said:   mjoply said:   This thing seems cool but is it really that hard to remember which card gets you the most points? Most wallets can hold at least five cards. I never have trouble switching cards to get the most CashBack.

Here's a real conversation I actually had with my wife last friday, after she filled the car with gas (most of the time I do it)

Me: You used your penfed card, right?
Her: No, I used Chase?
Me: You should have used your penfed.
Her: It's alright, I get 5% back on gas on my Chase.
Me: Yeah...starting July 1. It's still June.
Her: Well how should I know, when is the last time I put gas in the car.
Me: 2 months ago, but the penfed card has been 5% on gas ever since you got the card 5 years ago
Her: I don't know that
Me: And I mentioned it 2 weeks ago when you told me you signed up your chase card.


sounds like mine too. Most of her expenses are groceries and dining. I managed to finally get her to use Citi Forward for all dining, and just have her use her grocery card for everything else. I did the math, and adding a 3rd card to her rotation only made us around $5 extra per year, so it wasn't worth the hassle.

LordKronos said:   
Here's a real conversation I actually had with my wife last friday, after she filled the car with gas (most of the time I do it)

Me: You used your penfed card, right?
Her: No, I used Chase?
Me: You should have used your penfed.
Her: It's alright, I get 5% back on gas on my Chase.
Me: Yeah...starting July 1. It's still June.
Her: Well how should I know, when is the last time I put gas in the car.
Me: 2 months ago, but the penfed card has been 5% on gas ever since you got the card 5 years ago
Her: I don't know that
Me: And I mentioned it 2 weeks ago when you told me you signed up your chase card.

If only my wife kept her financial hiccups to the $2 variety - I'd be in heaven ...

LordKronos said:   mjoply said:   This thing seems cool but is it really that hard to remember which card gets you the most points? Most wallets can hold at least five cards. I never have trouble switching cards to get the most CashBack.

Here's a real conversation I actually had with my wife last friday, after she filled the car with gas (most of the time I do it)

Me: You used your penfed card, right?
Her: No, I used Chase?
Me: You should have used your penfed.
Her: It's alright, I get 5% back on gas on my Chase.
Me: Yeah...starting July 1. It's still June.
Her: Well how should I know, when is the last time I put gas in the car.
Me: 2 months ago, but the penfed card has been 5% on gas ever since you got the card 5 years ago
Her: I don't know that
Me: And I mentioned it 2 weeks ago when you told me you signed up your chase card.


I'm seriously starting to think Penfed is a cover for some wife mind controlling/confusion gas project. I've got no other explaination for the blindspot it creates for such a simple "hey, only use this card for gas" request.

Hi everyone-

We're thrilled to see the interest and conversation around the product. We look forward to hearing your feedback directly at http://www.walla.by/about-wallaby/contact-wallaby/ and answering questions via our FAQ at http://www.walla.by/faq/ Our card product works using new and unique technology that allows us to determine the right card and ensure you receive your bonus benefits, as well simplify your life (or you wife's life).

As we expand our beta and move to production, we will share more details on how we manage security to ensure your digital wallet is stored safely. We are a 100% US based company with all equipment in the US and premier banking and processing partners.

We love the suggestion for an application that works without the card--something we are currently considering. The user experience isn't quite as great, but for advanced users like those on this form it might be the best thing. Please follow us on Twitter @wallabycard or like us on Facebook to get those updates.

Best regards,

Matthew Goldman
Co-Founder and CEO
Wallaby Financial, Inc.

mgoldman said:   Hi everyone-

We're thrilled to see the interest and conversation around the product. We look forward to hearing your feedback directly at http://www.walla.by/about-wallaby/contact-wallaby/ and answering questions via our FAQ at http://www.walla.by/faq/ Our card product works using new and unique technology that allows us to determine the right card and ensure you receive your bonus benefits, as well simplify your life (or you wife's life).

As we expand our beta and move to production, we will share more details on how we manage security to ensure your digital wallet is stored safely. We are a 100% US based company with all equipment in the US and premier banking and processing partners.

We love the suggestion for an application that works without the card--something we are currently considering. The user experience isn't quite as great, but for advanced users like those on this form it might be the best thing. Please follow us on Twitter @wallabycard or like us on Facebook to get those updates.

Best regards,

Matthew Goldman
Co-Founder and CEO
Wallaby Financial, Inc.
Matthew
Thanks for coming here. Would you mind engaging us in conversation? This forum seems better suited for give and take and inquiry than the pure question/FAQ on your site

Or, at the very least, posting the answers to the discussion here on your FAQ?

No, I don't mind. I point out the FAQ in case it helps answer some questions. I'll work to go through the thread and post answers, although some details as to exactly how Wallaby works we'll have to keep confidential. Look for a post shortly.

Matthew, welcome to FWF, we always appreciate vendors posting here first-hand.

A few pointers for you:
  1. Congratulation, you landed on a thread which display either #1 or #2 (behind your own site) on a Google search
  2. You've located the most knowledge group of people on credit cards, reward credit cards being our major, please make sure we've got accounts early - and the best beta-testers in the world are yours
  3. Please be prepared, you'd be challenged to the limits, some people will have dozens of rewards cards with an astronomical numbers of permutations
  4. As a "collective brain" we will have more knowledge of CCs with rewards than people you'd be able to hire, so please try to be humble and learn from us (IMO you might want to hire some people off here as consultants)

Good lucks, you product sounds very interesting and for sure would fill the existing niche.

neophyte said:
Congratulation, you landed on a thread which display either #1 or #2 (behind your own site) on a Google search
You've located the most knowledge group of people on credit cards, reward credit cards being our major, please make sure we've got accounts early - and the best beta-testers in the world are yours
Please be prepared, you'd be challenged to the limits, some people will have dozens of rewards cards with an astronomical numbers of permutations



FWF will definitely find most/all your edge cases. A bug reporting/tracking interface would be good.

Also, will there be a fee for a lost wallaby card, and if so, what's the ballbark on that? And, will the statement still show the merchant we shopped at just like without the wallaby?

Welcome, Matthew.

The three top questions not addressed by your FAQ are:

1. Can I use Wallaby Visa at a merchant that does not accept AMEX, yet have my AMEX card charged?
2. How will these charges appear on my statements - as they normally would, or with Wallaby in place of the merchant?
3. Will using Wallaby card have any impact on my dispute rights or additional benefits provided by the credit card issuer, such as extended warranty?

4. What do we gotta do to get bumped up the wait list?

alex is back?

Other questions:
Can business and personal cards be linked? Or just personal cards?

Signed up fort he Beta list. This could be pretty exciting.

more questions not on the FAQ:
1) Can I link my wife's personal cards and my personal cards to a wallaby card? If so, this would make my life easier because I can just give my wife a wallaby card, and tell her to always use it (she currently splits between some of my cards and some of hers). This would also make FWF members happy because we generally don't like the concept of joint credit.
2) will this affect other linked rewards? like iDine, or AMEX link, like, love? Say I have my Citi Forward linked to iDine and Wallaby, and I use the Wallaby card at a restaurant, would I get my iDine credit?
3) Will this impact, in any way, my ability to dispute charges with my credit card company?



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