Life Insurance questions- wife declined, options?

Hoping someone can point me in the right direction, if there is one. My 30 year old wife has an autoimmune disease which was actually discovered after following up on some abnormal test results from her medical exam when applying for life insurance in 2010. She was declined for life insurance at that time (through SelectQuote). The agent said he could only offer an accidental death policy (which we declined). He said she would probably never be eligible for a term life policy. However, the doctors say her condition is not life threatening with treatment. She is relatively healthy otherwise with the exception of having celiac disease (gluten intolerance, conrolled with diet) and still works full time. She is the bigger breadwinner in our HH, earning about $110-$120K/year. She has a small policy through work that pays one year of annual salary.

My questions:

Is there any option for a Guaranteed Policy of some sort for someone her age?
Or, should we opt for the accidental death policy?
Or, should we forget life insurance for her altogether?

My main concern is if something would happen in the next 10 years or so. Afer that self insuring is no problem. Some guidance on disability insurance (if possible) would be appreciated as well.

Thanks

The bad part is that the previous application decline is likely on record with MIB

Otherwise I'd say get an Instant issue HSBC term
Life policy. They write up to $500k at decent rates considering it's instant issue . After the two year incontestability period they would not be able to deny a claim , even if you forgot to mention this issue

Any chance she can increase her life ins at work, many companies allow up to x times a person's salary without medical.
Also, what about you ? Do you have coverage?
Personally I'd skip the accidental, the most likely of all is disability from either accident or some disease (stroke,heart, etc). The rate of claims for disability is 10x that of life insurance, and the person remains alive (meaning is an ongoing cost).

Changing jobs for a better life insurance benefit is probably the last reason I've ever seen for changing jobs. The chances of his wife dying Young are about the same as chances he will die , as beefjerky said

ironfist99 said:   She got denied for celiac disease? If that is her serious medical issue, I would just get AD&D and call it a day. Most likely cause of death for a healthy 30 yr old is going to be an accident.
The way I read it, she was denied for an unspecified autoimmune condition, and the celiac disease was a separate, minor medical issue ...

There are guaranteed issue whole life policies. Unfortunately, these policies are for smaller amounts and only make sense for people who expect to die within 10 years or so.

As I tell everybody, "We are insurable until the day that we are not". This is why I often suggest term life insurance to people who don't need coverage, but expect to need it in the future.

Insurance companies can't make money by not insuring people. So, when no insurance company will insure a person, it tells us that there is some risk.

BrodyInsurance said:   There are guaranteed issue whole life policies. Unfortunately, these policies are for smaller amounts and only make sense for people who expect to die within 10 years or so.

As I tell everybody, "We are insurable until the day that we are not". This is why I often suggest term life insurance to people who don't need coverage, but expect to need it in the future.

Insurance companies can't make money by not insuring people. So, when no insurance company will insure a person, it tells us that there is some risk.
There's always risk. I assume insurance companies use actuarial tables to assess risk, but the tables are only as good as the data yhat's fed into them, and I wonder how nuanced the tables really are. For example, the same health condition doesn't have the same outcomes for everyone.

Regardless, for those who can't get life insurance, the best strategy seems self-insurance, e.g., to accumulate enough assets where one doesn't need life insurance to provide for one's family after one's death.

ironfist99 said:   She got denied for celiac disease? If that is her serious medical issue, I would just get AD&D and call it a day. Most likely cause of death for a healthy 30 yr old is going to be an accident.

1) A 30 year old with an auto immune disease is not a healthy 30 year old.
2) She may be 30 now, but that doesn't mean that death is going to occur when she is 30.
3) If a healthy person dies, they are always going to die by accident. People become unhealthy and then they die. Sometimes, they just don't know that they are unhealthy. Just this week, I dealt with a death claim of someone in her 30's. All of the death claims that I have dealt with for people under 40 have been due to illness and not accident.

BrodyInsurance said:   All of the death claims that I have dealt with for people under 40 have been due to illness and not accident.

... which is why actuaries base their decisions on more than 1 agent's anecdotal experience.

BrodyInsurance said:   Individuals can't "self-insure".

Complete nonsense.

Similarly, individuals also can engage in ART (alternative risk transfer) or even pooling.

dhodson said:   you need to realize that this is his definition of insurance and self insurance. It is held widely by insurance agents and even by plenty of non agents

Perhaps.

But actuarially and from a risk management perspective it's still nonsense.

And while I'd much rather go golfing today than dig back thru my insurance library, I'd really like to know of a specific citation that contradicts the concept that risk retention coupled with a funding mechanism -- even on an individual basis -- is essentially a self insurance program.

We probably could quibble for weeks on the relative effectiveness and financial/nonfinancial merits of such a "roll your own" approach.

But that's all it would be. Quibbling.

there is a big difference between best rates and not offering any coverage... that just isnt a valid example.

just so you know, most tests are designed to have a normal range that encompasses 95% of the population. Thus there are always going to be people outside the "normal range" who dont have a problem. It is the context of this abnormality that is or is not important.

additionally, the diagnosis in question here isnt usually made without symptoms.

BrodyInsurance said:   ironfist99 said:   She got denied for celiac disease? If that is her serious medical issue, I would just get AD&D and call it a day. Most likely cause of death for a healthy 30 yr old is going to be an accident.

1) A 30 year old with an auto immune disease is not a healthy 30 year old.
2) She may be 30 now, but that doesn't mean that death is going to occur when she is 30.
3) If a healthy person dies, they are always going to die by accident. People become unhealthy and then they die. Sometimes, they just don't know that they are unhealthy. Just this week, I dealt with a death claim of someone in her 30's. All of the death claims that I have dealt with for people under 40 have been due to illness and not accident.

You have seriously never had anyone die in a auto accident? I find that kind of hard to believe. This is anecdotal (as is your data), but of my acquaintances of high 20/low 30 year olds, I know of about 20 deaths. About 15 people have died in auto accidents, 3 died in the military, and 2 died of disease (cancer). True, the young people I have known to die of cancer, it was very sudden.

The fact remains the OP's wife was already denied, therefore there is a high chance that this decline will block further attempts to get a life insurance policy. If she continue to get denied, the best you are going to be able to do is AD&D, and maxing out both employers coverage which doesn't require physicals/applications. OP you mentioned your wife currently has 1X life insurance through her employer, I would email HR and see if she can raise it, it might cost additional out of pocket, but it's possible they have an agreement with an insurance company to allow higher coverage without physical/application. My employer's plan offers 4x without any application/physical. Also, check with your work if you can buy insurance for your spouse. If all this fails you may be stuck with the low employer limits, and have to get AD&D and save for any unfortunate events that aren't covered by AD&D.

Also, thank you for clarifying your post, I was confused as Celiac's Disease, is an autoimmune disease. It sounds like your wifes condition can be pretty serious, and I wish the both of you the best.

dhodson said:   there is a big difference between best rates and not offering any coverage... that just isnt a valid example.

OK, I think you're right. I don't know anything about this medical condition, but there is no comparison between "we followed up on this lab test and don't think there's any problem" and "we followed up on this lab test and found this condition that will need attention". I stand corrected.

glxpass said:   BrodyInsurance said:   "Self-insurance" isn't a strategy. First of all, "self-insurance" is something that a group can do. Individuals can't "self-insure". Also, putting money away does very little to change the need for coverage today. The best thing that a family in this situation can probably do is to structure their lives, as much as is reasonably possibly, in a way in which they will be ok if that income stops. There are no good solutions to not being able to get insurance. At least, it saves the cost of the premiums.
By "self-insurance", I mean (from Webster's Online Dictionary):

Insurance of oneself or one's own interests by the setting aside of money at regular intervals to provide a fund to cover possible losses.

So one doesn't need to be in a group to self-insure. I won't get into a debate about whether trying to self-insure is better than getting a life insurance policy -- the argument that it takes time to accumulate the funds (and, yes, changes in lifestyle might be necessary, similar to considerations when planning for retirement) is valid -- but the point is that some people (such as my wife and I) are unable to get life insurance. It's therefore vital if that one or both of us dies, the other family members financially dependent on one or both of us are provided for.

We've been accumulating assets to do just that.

Edited to fix quoting and to remove unnecessary stuff.

My comments have nothing to do with what is better or what needs to be done.

If you use the exact same dictionary and look up "insure" or "insurance", you will see that their definition of "self-insurance" fails to meet their definition of insurance.

You are making sure that you don't need insurance in the future. That's a prudent thing to do, but it doesn't make it insurance.

BEEFjerKAY said:   BrodyInsurance said:   Individuals can't "self-insure".

Complete nonsense.

Similarly, individuals also can engage in ART (alternative risk transfer) or even pooling.

I agree that they can do other things like you've mentioned.

BrodyInsurance said:   ironfist99 said:   BrodyInsurance said:   ironfist99 said:   She got denied for celiac disease? If that is her serious medical issue, I would just get AD&D and call it a day. Most likely cause of death for a healthy 30 yr old is going to be an accident.

1) A 30 year old with an auto immune disease is not a healthy 30 year old.
2) She may be 30 now, but that doesn't mean that death is going to occur when she is 30.
3) If a healthy person dies, they are always going to die by accident. People become unhealthy and then they die. Sometimes, they just don't know that they are unhealthy. Just this week, I dealt with a death claim of someone in her 30's. All of the death claims that I have dealt with for people under 40 have been due to illness and not accident.

You have seriously never had anyone die in a auto accident? I find that kind of hard to believe. This is anecdotal (as is your data), but of my acquaintances of high 20/low 30 year olds, I know of about 20 deaths. About 15 people have died in auto accidents, 3 died in the military, and 2 died of disease (cancer). True, the young people I have known to die of cancer, it was very sudden.

The fact remains the OP's wife was already denied, therefore there is a high chance that this decline will block further attempts to get a life insurance policy. If she continue to get denied, the best you are going to be able to do is AD&D, and maxing out both employers coverage which doesn't require physicals/applications. OP you mentioned your wife currently has 1X life insurance through her employer, I would email HR and see if she can raise it, it might cost additional out of pocket, but it's possible they have an agreement with an insurance company to allow higher coverage without physical/application. My employer's plan offers 4x without any application/physical. Also, check with your work if you can buy insurance for your spouse. If all this fails you may be stuck with the low employer limits, and have to get AD&D and save for any unfortunate events that aren't covered by AD&D.

Also, thank you for clarifying your post, I was confused as Celiac's Disease, is an autoimmune disease. It sounds like your wifes condition can be pretty serious, and I wish the both of you the best.

I know people who have died by car accidents. They just weren't clients of mine. I was just pointing out that we have no clue as to how one will die. This is a pretty good chart:

http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/usa-cause-of-death-by-age-and...

The numbers change pretty quickly. For instance, a 25-34 year old is about 6x more likely to die by traffic accident than coronary heart disease but by the time that they hit the 45-54 age range, those numbers reverse and they are about 4x more likely to die by heart disease. Traffic accidents stay about the same, but heart disease sky rockets.

Awesome. Now as a dude, I have breast Cancer and Malnutrition to worry about at my age. You are a real Debbie Downer.

Friend of mine went through looking for impaired risk insurance. Typical issue was you got your premiums back if you died in the first couple of years and then the insurance amount went up. After ten years it might have been a 100% payout. I don't really remember it. He thought he was going to die. He didn't take the insurance and, happily, he hasn't died. You used to be able to get nonrated insurance to pay off a house note. That might be something to look at. Don't know if that still exists. Take the accident insurance at work. It's morbid, as it all this stuff, but it is usually almost free.

Related question re: life insurance, since the life insurance gurus are appearing in this thread:

I filled out a questionnaire online for life insurance (at one of the "we'll shop around" sites) and listed my height/weight as x/y. I received a quote that was acceptable and proceeded to have the medical exam. When the nurse came over for the exam, her scale weighed me a good 10 pounds less than I normally weigh and then she took off another 5 pounds b/c she had called ahead and told us to be drinking lots of water. Now my ratios are x/(y-15).

My questions are:

1. Will this raise any red flags or is the agent the only one who has seen the preliminary numbers and won't care?

2. Do insurers ever DECREASE premiums under the initial quote because you end up showing up as healthier than you think you are when you filled out the prelim app? My initial #s probably showed me as about 15 pounds overweight and now I'm right on target. EDIT: And on the app I filled out, it had me listed as receiving quotes for the second-best premium level, presumably due to height/weight.

ltcm said:   Related question re: life insurance, since the life insurance gurus are appearing in this thread:

I filled out a questionnaire online for life insurance (at one of the "we'll shop around" sites) and listed my height/weight as x/y. I received a quote that was acceptable and proceeded to have the medical exam. When the nurse came over for the exam, her scale weighed me a good 10 pounds less than I normally weigh and then she took off another 5 pounds b/c she had called ahead and told us to be drinking lots of water. Now my ratios are x/(y-15).

My questions are:

1. Will this raise any red flags or is the agent the only one who has seen the preliminary numbers and won't care?

2. Do insurers ever DECREASE premiums under the initial quote because you end up showing up as healthier than you think you are when you filled out the prelim app? My initial #s probably showed me as about 15 pounds overweight and now I'm right on target.
Significant weight gain or loss can be questioned , but if it's a matter of you "guessing" your weight and the nurse writing something more favorable , it's probably not going to be a big deal if you're otherwise young and healthy

Fwiw I'm at least 25 lb overweight and my blood test resigns are usually outside normal range on a couple items - I still get the super preferred lowest rates bc I'm young and have no medical conditions , so the insurers pretty much ignore the small weight and cholesterol variances on otherwise low risk ppl.

Yes, if you were quoted "preferred" rates but actually fall into the super preferred category , you should automatically be given the lower rate. This happened only once in my experience of seeing dozens of policies

I have to give you green for that one even before I get a chance to watch.