2012 Mercedes Benz C63 AMG sedan lease 699 a month with ~$5k down

geo123 said:   arktc said:   Nothing, it's just widely known that the M-class had HORRIBLE fit and finish and quality standards when MB first started building them in Alabama. Things have improved since, as you pointed out. Those first few model years were quite buggy.I actually don't know how long MB has been assembling the ML in Alabama. How long have they been doing it?

I do know that the W164 M-class (2005-2011) had no problems whatsoever with fit and finish, at least not on the ML350. The '06 and early '07 ML350 suffered from a number of major mechanical issues, which is pretty common after a major redesign.

They started building them in Alabama starting when the M-class existed, so likely since model year 1998 -- built starting in 1997. The first gen models were generally considered for awful for fit/finish and quality. The second gen you're talking about is supposed to be much much better. Mercedes, I believe, got massive tax breaks for locating the factory there, just like BMW got from South Carolina.

geo123 said:   Ironically, the M-class is one of the least reliable Mercedes-Benz vehicles in most years, but if I remember correctly M-B did quite well in this year's JD Power ranking overall.'08-'11 ML350's actually have some of the highest reliability ratings out there, assuming that you avoid some of their problematic options, such as air suspensions.

I'm surprised Airmatic is still so buggy. It seems to have been around for a while. I wonder if it's that Airmatic is actually unreliable, or if it's that it runs its natural course but costs more to fix than steel springs would, especially since people seem to be quite happy with air suspensions until they need repair. Plenty of other manufacturers use them too -- GM, Audi, even Ford had a system back in the day. I know Arnott produces aftermarket parts for many companies' versions of them. Theoretically, air suspensions are relatively simple in terms of operation, but I'm not clear what kind of problems people have exactly. For example, air hoses develop leaks just like other hoses, and those are simple to fix, relatively speaking.

ynotme said:   always wondering why german auto only allow 10k/mile a year on a lease

Keeps the payment down. In a lease you are paying for depreciation (anticipated) + interest. More miles means higher depreciation which means higher payment

ynotme said:   always wondering why german auto only allow 10k/mile a year on a leaseAll luxury and non-luxury manufacturers do this, so it's not just german luxury manufacturers. Like Mike mentioned above, it allows them to advertise lower monthly payments to bring people in.

SUCKISSTAPLES said:   All cars that have air suspension will eventually have an issue- whether mb ml suv or lincoln navigator or range rover. I've got the trifecta of all three and each one has had problems . They ride great when they work but the failure rate of air suspension is close to 100% (ie they will all need work eventually) whereas the failure rate of steel springs is close to 0%

Well, I don't know if it's 0%, but it's probably lower since there's no real "service" involved, and they're just binary. I know I've driven a Lincoln with air suspension before (not SUV though), and I'm pretty sure Range Rover too. Some big GM SUVs seem to have it too, although I wasn't clear how many since it seems like the moniker "AutoRide" describes more than one system.

How many cars do you have? I'm aware of an S-class or two...but you have all three of those SUVs? Has anyone made an offer you couldn't refuse on one you bought for cheap?


geo123 said:   ynotme said:   always wondering why german auto only allow 10k/mile a year on a leaseAll luxury and non-luxury manufacturers do this, so it's not just german luxury manufacturers. Like Mike mentioned above, it allows them to advertise lower monthly payments to bring people in.

Yes, this is very common. Almost any time you see, "BMW 3-Series, as low as $$$," it's often lower than typical mileage and the base model (not that a base model of a luxury car is ill-equipped, necessarily). Car dealers love being able to upsell. "Well, you can't expect us to give them away. You can get that one with the color you like with the extra options you like for only $$$/month more."


geo123 said:   Right, airmatic owners tend to all uniformly love them but they've been a problem feature for quite a few people out there. They cost about $3,600-$4,000 to replace and, from what I've seen, the failure rate has been very high. For that very reason we intentionally stayed away from Premium 3 packages, which include airmatics. Incidentally, the market knows this quite well, such that the resale price of ML350 with Premium 3 packages is about the same or less than the same cars with Premium 2 packages.

I noticed that on other cars too. Different metrics show different values. For one car I was looking at, the air suspension was maybe $800-$1000 more under Edmunds and Blue Book, but Black Book suggested it was only worth $250 more (from the factory, it was probably $2500 more). I've never driven an ML-XX0 with one, but on some other models, it's a completely different car with it. My wife, who is not a car person, noticed the difference without my pointing out that it had air suspension until after the fact. Some of them have adjustable ride heights too, which is useful for my purposes as well.

FSBox said:   geo123 said:   It seems like there has been a lot of cost-cutting at German manufacturers in general, and unlike BMW and Audi, where they cut standard features from the car and made them optional to make the car cheaper, it seems like Mercedes lowered quality slightly, and it has been noticeable.Such as what? Just like most other luxury manufacturers, MB makes some very reliable cars and some not so reliable ones. It depends on the model, options, etc...

This is far from scientific, but when we were due to change one of our cars, we seriously considered an Audi A4 and a C class. We sat in a C-class and it did not compare well to a similarly priced/equipped A4 or 3 series. It wasn't any one thing, just felt cheaper overall. Too bad because the neighbor had a red C350 and the wife really liked the look of it. The A4 was much better. The 3-series interior, while looking dated in its design, had great materials and excellent finish. I think you are right that it depends also on the specific model. If we were to buy a nice SUV, there's not much else we would consider beyond a GL. About the only gripe I have on that vehicle is the thin steering wheel.I totally agree with you regarding the C-class, which to me has never looked or felt as being even comparable to the new A4 (the old A4 was downright awful though, with a weak engine, cramped interior, etc...) or especially the 3-series. You can outfit a c-class with some very nice options, which make it look and feel significantly more upscale on the inside (which also causes its price to go up rather quickly) but overall it still doesn't compare.

By the way, when I was buying my car, I too very seriously considered another BMW (either a 3 or a 5 series, as I had been driving BMW's for 7 or 8 years prior to that), the new A4 or A6 and looked at everything else that's arguably in competition with it (Lexus GS and IS, Volvo, Acura TL, etc...). I also seriously considered Infiniti (both M and G) and ended up buying a G37 with lots of options.