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I had a full time job making decent money while I was in college, but this is my first "professional" job that i got after college. A couple months shy of a year on the job.

Right now I making about 40k handling basic accounts with no real issues. The normal salary for an established person in my field is like 50-70k. My company then has a higher position where salaries are like 75k+

I would like to stay with the company I am at. How do I end up getting fair market value? what if they offer like a $9,000 raise? Its tough to play hardball when they offer you like a 20% raise. But I know that would be underpaid.

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Why don't you tell us what you really do? It's not just how well you can do the job. It's also how many people can do it... (more)

unnamedone (Oct. 28, 2012 @ 7:09p) |

Despite what others have said, I think you should push for a salary in line with the market. The idea is that it helps b... (more)

ankitgu (Oct. 29, 2012 @ 9:26a) |

I know that I wouldn't have taken this advice at your age, but honestly, as someone who was in what sounds like your exa... (more)

Bowen (Oct. 29, 2012 @ 9:52a) |


Can you get a better offer elsewhere? That is the best way to get "fair market value".

You can also negotiate benefits . More vacation time? Do thet pay a large % of your health insurance premium, etc.
Other things may have value to you besides the basic salary you are paid.

Show up late to the promotion meeting, wearing flip flops and PJ pants. Your supervisor will think "what the heck? this guy must have something huge set up for him elsewhere. I better offer a substantial raise if I want to keep him."

If the salary range for an established person is $50-70k, and you have been working less than a year(not very established) I think it is perfectly reasonable for them to offer you a salary on the low end of the range... 50K.

If your "market value" is worth more than that, then you should be able to find another employer willing to offer you 70k... but I doubt that's going to happen in an environment where the employers have thousands of unemployed people to choose from with way more experience.

What do you mean by 'promotion'? Are they promoting you to the position that normally pays $75K+? If you are are just going to be in the 50K-70K position then with your very limited experience you shouldn't expect too much.

Fresh-faced college graduates expecting to make the same as someone with years of experience cause colleagues all sorts of amusement. Make sure you are not overestimating your negotiating position.

steve1jr said:   
Fresh-faced college graduates expecting to make the same as someone with years of experience cause colleagues all sorts of amusement.


This statement couldn't be more true. I work in HR and people come in from college thinking they should be a manager making $25 an hour with no experience. It gives me a good laugh.

My employer does not pay market wages nor are they concerned about it. They offer other things they think make up for it, very competitive benefit package, work-life balance, overall a decent working environment. I'd have another offer in hand before you go making any sort of demands and be ready to leave when they say no.

tennis8363 said:   steve1jr said:   
Fresh-faced college graduates expecting to make the same as someone with years of experience cause colleagues all sorts of amusement.


This statement couldn't be more true. I work in HR and people come in from college thinking they should be a manager making $25 an hour with no experience. It gives me a good laugh.


I am very good, and have been formally recognized as being very good at what I do. Why shouldn't I be compensated well for it?

tony6730 said:   tennis8363 said:   steve1jr said:   
Fresh-faced college graduates expecting to make the same as someone with years of experience cause colleagues all sorts of amusement.


This statement couldn't be more true. I work in HR and people come in from college thinking they should be a manager making $25 an hour with no experience. It gives me a good laugh.


I am very good, and have been formally recognized as being very good at what I do. Why shouldn't I be compensated well for it?

Everyone wants to think they're worth a certain amount. Problem is, you already work there - the company's (perfectly valid) perspective is how much more value you add in the new position, compared to now. Just because you are good enough to warrant being promoted doesnt mean your productivity in the new position will be worth tens of thousands of dollars more to the company. Since youve already proven yourself willing to work for what theyre paying you, youre only going to get a raise relative to your existing salary. The only leverage you have at this point is quitting (where the company would then be getting zero productivity), but you better be willing to accept the consequences before making that threat.

So you are saying I have no negotiating power and just simply have to accept whatever they offer?

I would obviously work this new job for like 2 years or so regardless, but I want to maximize my earnings as soon as possible. I am hoping to buy a piece of real estate soon.

Why didn't you say that before? Once I told my employer I wanted to buy a Ferrari, they totally showed me the money!

tony6730 said:   tennis8363 said:   steve1jr said:   
Fresh-faced college graduates expecting to make the same as someone with years of experience cause colleagues all sorts of amusement.


This statement couldn't be more true. I work in HR and people come in from college thinking they should be a manager making $25 an hour with no experience. It gives me a good laugh.


I am very good, and have been formally recognized as being very good at what I do. Why shouldn't I be compensated well for it?

How were you "formally recognized at being very good at what [you] do?" A raise, a bonus, a letter that went into your personnel file, a pat on the back?

Similarly, I don't think you've explained why you think you are "on the verge of a big promotion at work." If this happened, don't you think you'd get a nice raise?

Have you looked at salary comparisons for your same position, years of experience, company size, and geographic location?

tony6730 said:   

I would obviously work this new job for like 2 years or so regardless...


how is that, like, obvious?

tony6730 said:   So you are saying I have no negotiating power and just simply have to accept whatever they offer?

I would obviously work this new job for like 2 years or so regardless, but I want to maximize my earnings as soon as possible. I am hoping to buy a piece of real estate soon.


You have all the negotiating power you want, if you can demonstrate that you deliver $X amount to the bottom line, it's not unreasonable to ask for a percentage of X greater than the salary you're being offered. You could also establish bonuses that are attached to goals such as, if you can handle 45k accounts this year then you get some amount of money as a bonus. 50k it's even more. All of that being said, if you walk in thinking you're hot stuff (which you seem to think you are) that will probably make HR and management recoil and want you even less, nobody likes a braggart who thinks he is hot stuff (but really isn't).

You've also said you were at the company for about a year where they paid you 40k. Are you actually worth 10k more today than you were 12 months ago? I highly doubt it. One more suggestion, check out salary.com or glassdoor to see what you can find out about your company. A great way to get laughed at and painted as unreasonable is to ask for a salary $5k less than your boss is making.

Typical millennial I deal with every day

tony6730 said:   So you are saying I have no negotiating power and just simply have to accept whatever they offer?

I would obviously work this new job for like 2 years or so regardless, but I want to maximize my earnings as soon as possible. I am hoping to buy a piece of real estate soon.

How much negotiating power do you expect when you say you're going to work there for 2 years regardless of what they pay you?

Assuming the value of your work is "worth it", a business is still only going to pay you what it takes to get you to show up each day. So your only real leverage is not showing up. But dont give them the chance to call your bluff unless you are prepared to follow through.

If you can show that you're really doing a great job, then counteroffer whatever they offer and back up your counteroffer by showing that you really are all that and a bag of chips. Don't just go in thinking that you're hot stuff if you don't have specific achievements to back it up with. If all you're handling are "basic accounts with no real issues," then you've really only proven yourself to be mostly adequate at doing basic tasks. Nobody's going to be falling over themselves to give you a big raise for that. But if you can give them a list of specifics where you're doing things that are above and beyond, and they offer you a salary of $X and you counter with $X + 5000 (or whatever) and show them that someone with your skillset is earning roughly that elsewhere, then you've got a shot. If you can't prove your worth, then don't expect to make any more than any other average person in your job.

Also, don't just assume that everyone in your management chain/HR knows what an amazing worker you are; show them the specifics of why you're worth more. If you make a reasonable counteroffer with the evidence to back up your worth, they're not likely to be upset with you, even if they end up rejecting your counteroffer. And if they do end up rejecting your counteroffer, and you're still certain you're worth more than what they're paying for, then it's time to think about looking elsewhere. If you've done your homework on salary, and you're as good as you think you are and can back it up with specific achievements, then you should be able to get to FMV by going elsewhere, as others have indicated.

That said, you haven't yet made any statements here to indicate that you're a top performer, beyond assertions that you're very good and have been formally recognized as being very good. I still think a counteroffer would be reasonable, but you seem like you're kind of going from the Little Leagues to maybe the Minor Leagues... I don't think I'd be looking to play "hardball" with anyone at this stage of the game.

tony6730 said:   I had a full time job making decent money while I was in college, but this is my first "professional" job that i got after college. A couple months shy of a year on the job.

Right now I making about 40k handling basic accounts with no real issues. The normal salary for an established person in my field is like 50-70k. My company then has a higher position where salaries are like 75k+

I would like to stay with the company I am at. How do I end up getting fair market value? what if they offer like a $9,000 raise? Its tough to play hardball when they offer you like a 20% raise. But I know that would be underpaid.


So you handle Basic accounts with no real issues, but some.
An established person makes like 50 - 70. What makes them established? One year on the job? Can you satisfy all those requirements?
Higher positions pay like 75, what does it take to get to these? Do you have any of those skills?
Do you know you are getting like a 9k raise? Or is that an assumption?
Underpaid based on what???

jkimcpa said:   Typical millennial I deal with every dayI think it's more like typical 25yo.

You don't counter offer a raise, you say thank you. If you think you're worth more now you ask for a raise now, or find a job somewhere else.

Had a similar situation. Really needed a new job, so I took a decent position with lowish pay. The company was definitely trying to take advantage of the economic climate. After a few months I was contact by a company across the street. They offered me 20k more a year and a signing bonus, along with significantly better benefits.

Was very professional about everything. Brought it up to my manager in a "I really wasn't looking to leave, but this company made me an offer. Any way you could match?" kind of way. They decided they wouldn't match. Months later and they are still looking to fill my position- can't find someone with the right skill sets.

Just goes to show that it can come back to bite a company if they aren't willing to pay to keep talent. I've observed several companies trying to keep pay low and/or treat employees poorly because of a unemployment, the economy, etc. If OP really has a valuable skill set and his/her company isn't willing to compensate them for it, someone else will. It has nothing to do with being an "entitled millennial."

Getting a raise is not the same as a big promotion. Getting recognized does not mean much if it is a pat, a thank-you note with a $50 attached versus landing a large account. You have less than a year at this place? If you are that good, soon you will be getting calls from recruiters.

tennis8363 said:   steve1jr said:   
Fresh-faced college graduates expecting to make the same as someone with years of experience cause colleagues all sorts of amusement.


This statement couldn't be more true. I work in HR and people come in from college thinking they should be a manager making $25 an hour with no experience. It gives me a good laugh.


jkimcpa said:   Typical millennial I deal with every day

It depends on the field. Certain fields, a 52k salary is on the low end of the scale even for fresh college grads. And it's almost expected that the hire will switch employers 2-3 years in as that usually entails a substantial 10-20k bump in salary. Of course, the unemployment rate in this field is also around 3-5% even through the past few years.

glxpass said:   tony6730 said:   tennis8363 said:   steve1jr said:   
Fresh-faced college graduates expecting to make the same as someone with years of experience cause colleagues all sorts of amusement.


This statement couldn't be more true. I work in HR and people come in from college thinking they should be a manager making $25 an hour with no experience. It gives me a good laugh.


I am very good, and have been formally recognized as being very good at what I do. Why shouldn't I be compensated well for it?

How were you "formally recognized at being very good at what [you] do?" A raise, a bonus, a letter that went into your personnel file, a pat on the back?

Similarly, I don't think you've explained why you think you are "on the verge of a big promotion at work." If this happened, don't you think you'd get a nice raise?

Have you looked at salary comparisons for your same position, years of experience, company size, and geographic location?


They gave me a raise and wrote up a good report on me at the 8 month mark. Steps were then taken to train me so I would be ready for a promotion. I am currently getting familiar with those additional components, which has been going on for the last month or so.

at mcdonalds the managers are required to tell everyone that they are doing a very good job on a frequent basis, so that no one quits or gets discouraged. the managers go to mcdonalds university and are told to give lots of attaboys. they dont give much money, but they pile on the high self-esteem. it sounds like your employer uses the same idea, they wont pay you much but they will make you feel good about yourself.
the good cashiers get promoted to fry cook, but they dont get much more pay.

jason745 said:   So you handle Basic accounts with no real issues, but some.
An established person makes like 50 - 70. What makes them established? One year on the job? Can you satisfy all those requirements?
Higher positions pay like 75, what does it take to get to these? Do you have any of those skills?
Do you know you are getting like a 9k raise? Or is that an assumption?
Underpaid based on what???


Level 1- Entry level position, less $, less issues.
Level 2- Dealing with more serious, high dollar accounts.
Level 3- Lead, dealing with the big boys. industry certification necessary


Thats basically it as far as career progression goes unless you get into management. Level 3 will take a while to get to, most people never get there. The people on that level have a lot of experience and are all very good at what they do.

So I need to get the big jump right here.

$9,000 is just speculation. I want to break the 50k barrier. I am asking how to negotiate a big raise if they offer just a mediocre raise like $9000?

tony6730 said:   if they offer just a mediocre raise like $9000?

I hate when I get a 20% raise.

tony6730 said:   I am asking how to negotiate a big raise if they offer just a mediocre raise like $9000?I don't know where you've been the last couple of years, but a $9,000 raise is nothing to sneeze at. If you are worth so much more, start job hunting. Nine months on the job doesn't make you "established."

dcwilbur said:   tony6730 said:   I am asking how to negotiate a big raise if they offer just a mediocre raise like $9000?I don't know where you've been the last couple of years, but a $9,000 raise is nothing to sneeze at. If you are worth so much more, start job hunting. Nine months on the job doesn't make you "established."

I guess I just have to accept whatever they offer and move on after a few years with the company if I am not making enough.

I realize the economy sucks, but that doesn't mean that life comes to a halt. I have things that I need to get done and it takes money to do so.

tony6730 said:   dcwilbur said:   tony6730 said:   I am asking how to negotiate a big raise if they offer just a mediocre raise like $9000?I don't know where you've been the last couple of years, but a $9,000 raise is nothing to sneeze at. If you are worth so much more, start job hunting. Nine months on the job doesn't make you "established."

I guess I just have to accept whatever they offer and move on after a few years with the company if I am not making enough.

I realize the economy sucks, but that doesn't mean that life comes to a halt. I have things that I need to get done and it takes money to do so.

If you aren't making what you are worth, why are you waiting "a few years" before moving on? Get a new job, that pays you what you are worth, now.

But if by "not making enough" you mean you arent able to buy everything you want, that has nothing to do with the value of your job or what you are worth to the company - that's your problem, not your employer's.

Glitch99 said:   
If you aren't making what you are worth, why are you waiting "a few years" before moving on? Get a new job, that pays you what you are worth, now.

But if by "not making enough" you mean you arent able to buy everything you want, that has nothing to do with the value of your job or what you are worth to the company - that's your problem, not your employer's.


I feel as if 2 years experience is necessary before I start looking elsewhere. I want to be established and have over 2 years experience before I would move on.

but I am not a job hopper, would much prefer to stay where I am and just paid a reasonable salary

Sounds like you got low-balled when you took the job. Now you want to get paid more. A lot more. And right now. Good luck with that.

tony6730 said:   Glitch99 said:   
If you aren't making what you are worth, why are you waiting "a few years" before moving on? Get a new job, that pays you what you are worth, now.

But if by "not making enough" you mean you arent able to buy everything you want, that has nothing to do with the value of your job or what you are worth to the company - that's your problem, not your employer's.


I feel as if 2 years experience is necessary before I start looking elsewhere. I want to be established and have over 2 years experience before I would move on.

You still dont answer the question - if you think it'll take 2 years experience for anyone else to pay you what you want, why would you expect your current employer to pay you that amount without having that 2 years experience?

Glitch99 said:   tony6730 said:   Glitch99 said:   
If you aren't making what you are worth, why are you waiting "a few years" before moving on? Get a new job, that pays you what you are worth, now.

But if by "not making enough" you mean you arent able to buy everything you want, that has nothing to do with the value of your job or what you are worth to the company - that's your problem, not your employer's.


I feel as if 2 years experience is necessary before I start looking elsewhere. I want to be established and have over 2 years experience before I would move on.

You still dont answer the question - if you think it'll take 2 years experience for anyone else to pay you what you want, why would you expect your current employer to pay you that amount without having that 2 years experience?


because they know me and the quality of my work.

Is $55,000 really an unreasonable salary for a guy who is no longer in an entry level role, has a bachelors degree, and does a good job at work, while living in a high COL area? I don't think so.

tony6730 said:   Glitch99 said:   tony6730 said:   Glitch99 said:   
If you aren't making what you are worth, why are you waiting "a few years" before moving on? Get a new job, that pays you what you are worth, now.

But if by "not making enough" you mean you arent able to buy everything you want, that has nothing to do with the value of your job or what you are worth to the company - that's your problem, not your employer's.


I feel as if 2 years experience is necessary before I start looking elsewhere. I want to be established and have over 2 years experience before I would move on.

You still dont answer the question - if you think it'll take 2 years experience for anyone else to pay you what you want, why would you expect your current employer to pay you that amount without having that 2 years experience?


because they know me and the quality of my work.

Is $55,000 really an unreasonable salary for a guy who is no longer in an entry level role, has a bachelors degree, and does a good job at work, while living in a high COL area? I don't think so.

It depends on the job and what others at the same job with your level of experience and in your geographic area are making.

The better salary survey sites will show you this information, along with salary ranges based on percentile. What did your research tell you (not for the job title in general, but with these specifics)? $50K - $70K or whatever you initially said is pretty meaningless without these additional parameters.

Self-confidence is great, but you seem to be exhibiting a strong sense of entitlement, which I find rather distasteful. I hope you don't project that to your employer.

In my experience the cocky ones are usually mediocre.

glxpass said:   tony6730 said:   Glitch99 said:   tony6730 said:   Glitch99 said:   
If you aren't making what you are worth, why are you waiting "a few years" before moving on? Get a new job, that pays you what you are worth, now.

But if by "not making enough" you mean you arent able to buy everything you want, that has nothing to do with the value of your job or what you are worth to the company - that's your problem, not your employer's.


I feel as if 2 years experience is necessary before I start looking elsewhere. I want to be established and have over 2 years experience before I would move on.

You still dont answer the question - if you think it'll take 2 years experience for anyone else to pay you what you want, why would you expect your current employer to pay you that amount without having that 2 years experience?


because they know me and the quality of my work.

Is $55,000 really an unreasonable salary for a guy who is no longer in an entry level role, has a bachelors degree, and does a good job at work, while living in a high COL area? I don't think so.

It depends on the job and what others at the same job with your level of experience and in your geographic area are making.

The better salary survey sites will show you this information, along with salary ranges based on percentile. What did your research tell you (not for the job title in general, but with these specifics)? $50K - $70K or whatever you initially said is pretty meaningless without these additional parameters.

Self-confidence is great, but you seem to be exhibiting a strong sense of entitlement, which I find rather distasteful. I hope you don't project that to your employer.


Self-confidence is great, but you seem to be exhibiting a strong sense of entitlement, which I find rather distasteful. I hope you don't project that to your employer. <-- Agree

tony6730 said:   Glitch99 said:   tony6730 said:   Glitch99 said:   
If you aren't making what you are worth, why are you waiting "a few years" before moving on? Get a new job, that pays you what you are worth, now.

But if by "not making enough" you mean you arent able to buy everything you want, that has nothing to do with the value of your job or what you are worth to the company - that's your problem, not your employer's.


I feel as if 2 years experience is necessary before I start looking elsewhere. I want to be established and have over 2 years experience before I would move on.

You still dont answer the question - if you think it'll take 2 years experience for anyone else to pay you what you want, why would you expect your current employer to pay you that amount without having that 2 years experience?


because they know me and the quality of my work.

Is $55,000 really an unreasonable salary for a guy who is no longer in an entry level role, has a bachelors degree, and does a good job at work, while living in a high COL area? I don't think so.
You had the degree when hired, and have already gotten a raise in recognition of not being "entry level" and for having done good work. The company could hire someone new at what you had originally been making, and likely get another "you" with little losted since you haven't even been there a year yet.

You keep talking all idealistic like your work has an intrinsic value to it - your pay is based on 1) what it takes to get you to accept the job offer, and 2) what prevents you from quitting. They aren't going to overpay you just because you think you should be paid more, when you already work there and have no intention of leaving. You need to sell them on why they would miss you, rather than using some vague bias concept of "fair".

Skipping 5 Messages...
I know that I wouldn't have taken this advice at your age, but honestly, as someone who was in what sounds like your exact position, you are prepping yourself for WAY too much of a bump in pay. As I've matured and grown through moving employers to get more money, I've realized that you'd be LUCKY to get a 10% bump in pay with a promotion (if you can even get that much).

I too was once an entitled fresh faced millennial straight out of college, expecting big things, but the problem is that no one tells you that you are expecting way too much. That's not necessarily your fault, but I recommend you take some of the feedback you've received thus far to heart. The mockery you have received, while not necessarily just, should be informing you that your expectations are too high. Your HR department doesn't care what "Market" is, they care what your experience is, and in the scheme of things you have 1 year of experience (not even).

So, IF you get a promotion, bite your tongue and take it graciously, and instead of negotiating for more money off the bat, try to negotiate for a formal review with raise potential every 6 months. That compounding money will take you further than coming across as an ungrateful entitled kid.

I know this, because I had set my expectations for 10%, and when I didn't get it, I showed it. My boss read my face and knew I wasn't happy. Luckily he was awesome, and I talked it through with him. I felt like an idiot, and I called him later that night to apologize for how I acted.



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