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Just got notice from Blue Cross that my monthly premium will be $794 next year, up 20% from $662 now and $483 in 2010. That's like a freakin mortgage payment! I'm early 50s and hardly ever use it. What do some of you self employeds pay? And will Obamacare provide any relief?

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Ouch. These types of crazy and often inconsistent state rules is one of many reasons that large employers self-fund heal... (more)

geo123 (Nov. 26, 2012 @ 1:03p) |

ragedogg69 (Nov. 26, 2012 @ 5:11p) |

Thank you very much for the links.
I read through both links and the first one was particularly helpful.
The real concern,... (more)

mikeres (Nov. 26, 2012 @ 9:16p) |

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Just got my blue cross increase too

I have the basic ppo 2500, age 38

My premiums were about $94 a couple years ago, actually went down to $78 last year, and are going up to $91 next year

Just wait until you see your deductibles!

Can you switch plans? It will basically constantly go up 20% annually as healthy people leave your plans pool for lower rates. The pools are small on purpose to get around state regulation about payout %, etc.

$800/mo here for a family of 5. 10k deductible

I only have a $100 per year deductible, then 80/20 up to $1,000 after which 100%.

atikovi said:   I only have a $100 per year deductible, then 80/20 up to $1,000 after which 100%.

That would probably explain why your premiums are so high. If you don't really use your insurance, why don't you shop around and buy a high deductible plan and save up the money you would spend on your premiums?

$150 here. 5k/100%. 46 non-smoker.

atikovi said:   I only have a $100 per year deductible, then 80/20 up to $1,000 after which 100%.
And you wonder why your premiums are so high ?

My colleague is in her early 60s and has the same blue cross ppo 2500 deductible I have

Her premiums are about 4x mine due to age but still far less than yours due to your low deductible

Incorporate, add an employee... with two employees you are eligible for group rates from the health insurers... and the rates are set by law and can only fluctuate about 10% based on risk profiles... guaranteed acceptance... good deal (at least in CA).

Crazytree said:   Incorporate, add an employee... with two employees you are eligible for group rates from the health insurers... and the rates are set by law and can only fluctuate about 10% based on risk profiles... guaranteed acceptance... good deal (at least in CA).
I heard this was an argument for employing the wife in whatever your business was. Of course I also heard more than once that you should never try to work with your wife in business .

You won't be able to lower costs going the hi deductible route for long. Öbamacare is going to destroy the high deductible market by requiring something like 80% of premiums to be spent on care (which means high fixed cost/admin policies that pay out rarely aren't allowed), just like it destroyed a truly excellent post by UMT.

My Aetna CDHP 1K deductible is going up $30/month next year. How do I invest in the cost of rising premiums? They just keep going up.

I went S.E. after being laid off and had COBRA coverage. When this ended I looked around for health insurance I got a Pacificare HIPAA policy for my wife at $600/month and Anthem Blue Cross for myself and son at $225/month. Within 2 months, Pacificare jumped up $200 month and Anthem Blue Cross has gone up $75. However, I feel I made good, informed choices. I found an agent that puts everything online so you can compare various options. He is at steveshorr.com and I ended up purchasing through him.

qcumber98 said:   My Aetna CDHP 1K deductible is going up $30/month next year. How do I invest in the cost of rising premiums? They just keep going up.
Medicare fraud. If you're not getting your share of the 20% wasted, you're overpaying for your healthcare since those costs get rolled into the average for everyone else. And by everyone else, I mean you.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/merrillmatthews/2012/05/31/medicare-...

xerty said:   You won't be able to lower costs going the hi deductible route for long. Öbamacare is going to destroy the high deductible market by requiring something like 80% of premiums to be spent on care (which means high fixed cost/admin policies that pay out rarely aren't allowed), just like it destroyed a truly excellent post by UMT.

Citation? I provide insurance to 12 of my employees and have never heard this. I know Obamacare has the rules but I would asse that HDHP has lower administrative costs and some sort of exemption.

nasheedb said:   atikovi said:   I only have a $100 per year deductible, then 80/20 up to $1,000 after which 100%.

That would probably explain why your premiums are so high. If you don't really use your insurance, why don't you shop around and buy a high deductible plan and save up the money you would spend on your premiums?


Being S.E. the insurance is 100% tax deductible while the out of pocket costs are zero deductible which is why I went that route. And the purpose of insurance is not to have it when you don't use it, but to have it when you unexpectedly do need it.

emcdemc said:   xerty said:   You won't be able to lower costs going the hi deductible route for long. Öbamacare is going to destroy the high deductible market by requiring something like 80% of premiums to be spent on care (which means high fixed cost/admin policies that pay out rarely aren't allowed), just like it destroyed a truly excellent post by UMT.

Citation? I provide insurance to 12 of my employees and have never heard this. I know Obamacare has the rules but I would asse that HDHP has lower administrative costs and some sort of exemption.

As written, the HDHP plans won't meet the accounting rules for the 80/20 test and hence won't be "qualified". Then either of two bad things happen - the HDHP plans have to add lots of extra coverage their customers don't want to pay for (making them much more expensive), or they stay the same but now all their customers get penalties for not having a qualified plan and have to pay an extra 2.5% of their income for nothing. But what's really going to happen is that these plans just aren't going to be offered, because the companies often don't offer qualified expensive coverage separately, and you aren't going to be allowed to even offer a non qualified plan if you don't also offer qualified ones.

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/07/13/obamacare-could-kill-one-...
http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/2012/04/27/how-obamacare-will-m...
http://p.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/apr/22/4m-pay-insurance-p...

Just another case of Health Insurance Company ripping off its customers, if your healthy save that money and if you need to go to the Doctor or Hospital offer them $$$$ for a discount.

leedsutd67 said:   Just another case of Health Insurance Company ripping off its customers, if your healthy save that money and if you need to go to the Doctor or Hospital offer them $$$$ for a discount.

Yea, that's real smart. When you're rushed to the ER semi conscious, start negotiating the price of the cat scan, blood work, surgeon, etc. That's assuming of course they don't make you wait 6 hours in the lobby before you see a doctor if you don't have an insurance card.

OK so you might have to wait awhile, so what, that just means there are more urgent cases in front of you, or you just could pay $800 per month and more in 12 months time.

I pay ~$10,000 a year for my family of 3, all healthy. That insurance premium is my largest annual expense, and it pisses me off no end.

leedsutd67 said:   Just another case of Health Insurance Company ripping off its customers, if your healthy save that money and if you need to go to the Doctor or Hospital offer them $$$$ for a discount.
Actually, it's 100% rooted in the fallacy that health insurance is the magic pill to cure health care costs, thus everyone should be entitled to it whether they can afford it or not.

ganda said:   I pay ~$10,000 a year for my family of 3, all healthyThat seems too high.
Multiple people with multiple Pre Existing conditions ?

leedsutd67 said:   OK so you might have to wait awhile, so what, that just means there are more urgent cases in front of you, or you just could pay $800 per month and more in 12 months time.

So you actually believe you will be treated the same and get the same level of care if you have no insurance as the person next to you that does have insurance? If so, I've got some nice oceanfront property in Kansas I'd like to sell ya. And that's besides the fact I don't want to lose a big chunk of life savings if I end up with a $100K or $200K hospital bill.

Alcibiades said:   ganda said:   I pay ~$10,000 a year for my family of 3, all healthyThat seems too high.
Multiple people with multiple Pre Existing conditions ?


Depends on where you are. Excepting a single indemnity plan, every individual family health insurance in NY costs nearly that much for the lousiest high deductible plans (this for a family of 3). Go with a traditional, non-high deductible plan, and you can easily top $20k per year.

Alcibiades said:   ganda said:   I pay ~$10,000 a year for my family of 3, all healthyThat seems too high.
Multiple people with multiple Pre Existing conditions ?


Actually that sounds about exactly right - we are a family of 3, all healthy and fairly young, and our annual is just over $10k. It isn't great insurance either. I just switched to a HDHP with HSA (that indeed, will probably be discontinued next year because of obamacare rules) but for this year at least, that shaved $6k off the premium.

Alcibiades said:   ganda said:   I pay ~$10,000 a year for my family of 3, all healthyThat seems too high.
Multiple people with multiple Pre Existing conditions ?


No pre-existing conditions, all healthy, 40, 38 and 4.

Alcibiades said:   ganda said:   I pay ~$10,000 a year for my family of 3, all healthyThat seems too high.
Multiple people with multiple Pre Existing conditions ?


Why is that high? My group policy rate is $18,000 / year for a family.

yea i agree that isnt actually on the expensive side compared to other plans for a family. Of course 10k or 18k is expensive in general but compared to other plans its in the ballpark. I pay around 13.5k for my family of 5 also no health issues.

xerty said:   emcdemc said:   xerty said:   You won't be able to lower costs going the hi deductible route for long. Öbamacare is going to destroy the high deductible market by requiring something like 80% of premiums to be spent on care (which means high fixed cost/admin policies that pay out rarely aren't allowed), just like it destroyed a truly excellent post by UMT.

Citation? I provide insurance to 12 of my employees and have never heard this. I know Obamacare has the rules but I would asse that HDHP has lower administrative costs and some sort of exemption.

As written, the HDHP plans won't meet the accounting rules for the 80/20 test and hence won't be "qualified". Then either of two bad things happen - the HDHP plans have to add lots of extra coverage their customers don't want to pay for (making them much more expensive), or they stay the same but now all their customers get penalties for not having a qualified plan and have to pay an extra 2.5% of their income for nothing. But what's really going to happen is that these plans just aren't going to be offered, because the companies often don't offer qualified expensive coverage separately, and you aren't going to be allowed to even offer a non qualified plan if you don't also offer qualified ones.

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/07/13/obamacare-could-kill-one-...
http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/2012/04/27/how-obamacare-will-m...
http://p.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/apr/22/4m-pay-insurance-p...



The 80/20 rule went into effect in 2011. If that rule was going to 'destroy' the HDHP/HSA plans wouldn't it have done so by now?

jerosen said:   
The 80/20 rule went into effect in 2011. If that rule was going to 'destroy' the HDHP/HSA plans wouldn't it have done so by now?


This change takes effect in 2014.

cowboyBill said:   jerosen said:   
The 80/20 rule went into effect in 2011. If that rule was going to 'destroy' the HDHP/HSA plans wouldn't it have done so by now?


This change takes effect in 2014.


Incorrect. It was 2011. Cite. What may do HDHPs in will be the "Bronze" minimum actuarial coverage rule that kicks in in 2014. I don't think it will because I expect them to count HSA contributions towards that coverage, but reasonable people may disagree.

leedsutd67 said:   Just another case of Health Insurance Company ripping off its customers, if your healthy save that money and if you need to go to the Doctor or Hospital offer them $$$$ for a discount.

What do you do when you find out you are not healthy after all? Have $500k in savings for that transplant they just said you needed? While covered by insurance, a transplant is technically an elective procedure, no one to pay and you don't get it.

What you pay $500,000 for in the US can be purchased for $50,000 in India,Costa Rica just look up medical vacation to see what you need, i believe that if you are healthy and you don't have risky hobbies ie wing walking deep sea diving and you are disciplined enough to save that money, this should be a serious consideration, many will not agree and it my not be a appropriate for everyone, just my opinion.

Mine just went up by 24% and went up by about 30% less than a year ago. When Obamacare comes into effect I am considering dropping my insurance and paying the penalty.

Crazytree said:   Incorporate, add an employee... with two employees you are eligible for group rates from the health insurers... and the rates are set by law and can only fluctuate about 10% based on risk profiles... guaranteed acceptance... good deal (at least in CA).This is of purely academic interest to me, but I am curious how the rates compare to individually underwritten rates for very healthy individuals. In general, when it comes to individual and very small group policies (it's different with large group policies, as they have other factors at play), "guaranteed acceptance" and only a 10% variance across risk and usage profiles means that it's an excellent deal for people who aren't healthy and can't qualify for competitive rates on individually underwritten policies and is a poor deal for very healthy individuals who can qualify for the best individually underwritten policies. At least that's how it tends to work with insurance lines with which I am familiar. I am curious, however, whether California has been able to somehow implement it differently and in a way that avoids these issues.

leedsutd67 said:   if your healthy save that money and if you need to go to the Doctor or Hospital offer them $$$$ for a discount.Health coverage has to work very differently from practically every other type of insurance coverage out there because what it covers is exponentially more important than practically anything else out there. You generally do not want to have a health insurance setup wherein there is a significant psychological and a financial incentive to delay obtaining care. This is true even in non-emergency situations.

There are a lot of very serious diseases the impact of which can be quite limited if you catch them early. Their initial symptoms can often be fairly generic and imprecise, so the only way to diagnose them early is through proper identification and testing. This is essentially the same issue with all high deductible and similar health plans, as they create a very strong financial and psychological incentive for the insured not to investigate all but the clearest symptoms early, which can compromise your health.

This is true even for people who can easily afford to pay the high deductibles and co-pays, as psychologically it can be very difficult to convince yourself to have to pay thousands of dollars out of pocket to investigate something that is probably nothing... except that if it is not, then every extra minute that you've waited can end up making a difference between living with a severe disability or not and even living or dying.

While these do not happen every day, these situations are not that uncommon either. If you are a very healthy person with a high deductible health plan and suddenly get what feels like a terrible headache, how much more likely will you be to stay home, swallow a few Tylenols and wait it out then to go to the emergency room? If you know that that emergency room visit will end up costing you a thousand dollars or more under your HDHP, how many people would go? Yes, it's probably just a bad headache but if it is a subarachnoid hemorrhage and you wait, you are extremely likely to suffer a severe and permanent disability (it is a form of a stroke, so we are talking severe neurological and/or cognitive impairment) or to die. These things are not a joke.

You are right in what you say geo123, you only have to look at Steve Jobs to see in delaying medical treatment can be fatal I'm not saying you should delay treatment far from it, as alternative to high premiums "pay as you go"

Skipping 40 Messages...
ragedogg69 said:   mikeres said:   
I'd like to be able to say that I like Obamacare but I haven't yet read all 2000 pages of the ACA bill and at the time of it's passage neither has any congressman.



This helped me quite a bit.

and this is how i explain it to my friends.
Thank you very much for the links.
I read through both links and the first one was particularly helpful.
The real concern, uncertainty and unease is in the implementation of the specific regulations.
For instance (now that I've been educated) will high deductible policies coupled with HSA be considered acceptable coverage, or will people that have that type of coverage be subject to fines?
The devil is in the details - which have yet to be defined.



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