Storing gold and silver

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So, trying to avoid wall of text...

Have a relative of modest means, owns own house, stable job. Liquidated their retirement 401K and bought gold and silver. I have a built-in safe in my house, this relative has been sending me their retirement savings to store. At first, it was just a couple of coins so I figured it was no big deal, but they have sent their entire coinage to me which is sitting in the safe.

I must add that this is a relative of my wife, which limits my options somewhat.

As I see it, I can get a rider for my homeowners insurance to cover the coins and write the cost of it off as a christmas present to this relative. Or, I could tell this person to take the coins back and put them in a safe deposit box in their city, which would make more sense to me, but again, it is a relative of my wife which limits my options. Or, I could be clear that if the safe is stolen/whatever then this relative is SOL on the coins. Or, I could plan on keeping all the shiny metal if there is a zombie invasion.

Don't get me started on liquidating your retirement for shiny coins. I don't even think I can have that conversation. Was happy to put a couple of coins in the safe, but this has gotten a bit out of hand.

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ericblair (Dec. 04, 2012 @ 12:44p) |

The webpage listed below lists some creative solutions including a short video (by Richard Maybury) on how to bury preci... (more)

lee6077 (Jan. 15, 2013 @ 7:37p) |

1. Crazy Relative
2. Liquidate 401k into precious metals
3. profit ???

HumDoHamaraDo (Jan. 16, 2013 @ 9:46a) |

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Have them put it in a safe deposit box.

The fact that it's a relative of your wife's does not limit your options unless you let it. Grow some cajones.

The only reason the person should not want to put it in a SDB is if they are pending litigation and are trying to hide assets in your safe.

Be prepared to be woken up at 2am by your relative who is picking up their coins on their way to Mexico.

"Or, I could be clear that if the safe is stolen/whatever then this relative is SOL on the coins."

This...also stage a breakin' and put some scratch marks on the safe. Maybe it will scare them into getting their crap out of your place! I feel for you, that is an awkward position to be put in.

I think the kind of person who liquidates their 401k for precious metals is also the kind of person who expects the government to seize gold that is kept in a bank SDB...

There's no litigation, there's no asset hiding. Just a distrust of banks/government/etc.
And, we do make compromises for the sake of marriage. I'm not at any risk personally here, but I want to be clear that I'm not taking any liability associated with it.
They are pretty.

someone watches too much fox news about the impending failure of the government and the commercials about buying boiulion.
i dont get the logic. even if the government did fail, you can't eat the gold, you wouldn't find someone to trade it for food, and you wouldn't want to trade it for money. whats the point?

disclaimer: i like beef boulion in my broths.

Get them out of your house ASAP. If anyone finds out, you and your family immediately become a target.

If the relative is paranoid about banks, there are ways to ship your gold overseas and have it stored in secure facilities in places such as Switzerland, Singapore, etc.

BTW, I don't think the government cares about confiscating gold as all currency is fiat and backed by nothing. Since gold was tied to the dollar back in the '30s, FDR had to confiscate it before he could devalue. Unnecessary now. It's just created electronically out of thin air.

Besides that, it would be a lot easier for the government to get at the wealth by creating a windfall profits tax on gold. I can just see all these goldbugs sitting in the virtual bunker with most of their assets in gold/silver thinking they're brilliant as the USD craters and gold is at $5,000+ an ounce. In comes Uncle Sam with an 80% tax on gold and silver. Oops.

Diversify:

Precious metals
Rental Property
Farm Land
Fine Art
etc.

Why don't they buy their own safe?

The relative is likely paranoid about banks. etc, but why do they think its safer in your house?

Introduce them to Billy, the (temporarily) reformed drug addict who will be renting the spare bedroom starting next month.

OverMachoGrande said:   Introduce them to Billy, the (temporarily) reformed drug addict who will be renting the spare bedroom starting next month.

I did theater back in undergrad. I can do a very convincing drug addict and I'd be willing to fly in for expenses and a $50/day per diem for a few days.

OliverQuackenbush said:   someone watches too much fox news about the impending failure of the government and the commercials about buying boiulion.
i dont get the logic. even if the government did fail, you can't eat the gold, you wouldn't find someone to trade it for food, and you wouldn't want to trade it for money. whats the point?

disclaimer: i like beef boulion in my broths.


In the situations you're describing, you're equally likely to have some trouble selling electronic/paper stock...

Nothing wrong with having a little diversification in PMs. Safe deposit boxes work pretty well as long as you have a decent value. The costs year over year for a small worth dont really make it worthwhile. You have a pretty set number of options - in a bank, at home or underground.

Some will argue for a vault at home, but if it's any kind of small, it'll just get picked up and taken.

How much we talking? 100 oz of gold is not that big.

so you're telling the interwebs that you've got a load of gold and silver coins in your house...

but looks like you've got a 9mm in case?

Maybe the relative of your wife has someone in their household with either a drug or gambling addiction.

OliverQuackenbush said:   someone watches too much fox news about the impending failure of the government and the commercials about buying boiulion.
i dont get the logic. even if the government did fail, you can't eat the gold, you wouldn't find someone to trade it for food, and you wouldn't want to trade it for money. whats the point?

disclaimer: i like beef boulion in my broths.


I caught a clip of Glenn Beck a few months ago telling people how to prepare for the meltdown of the US. He advocated stocking up on liquor and cigarettes since they are addictive and will be highly valued in a barter economy.

BADADVICE said:   OliverQuackenbush said:   someone watches too much fox news about the impending failure of the government and the commercials about buying boiulion.
i dont get the logic. even if the government did fail, you can't eat the gold, you wouldn't find someone to trade it for food, and you wouldn't want to trade it for money. whats the point?

disclaimer: i like beef boulion in my broths.


I caught a clip of Glenn Beck a few months ago telling people how to prepare for the meltdown of the US. He advocated stocking up on liquor and cigarettes since they are addictive and will be highly valued in a barter economy.


Was this right abut Nov. 7th?

A safety deposit box is a terrible idea that makes it easy for it to be confiscated by lawsuits or by the government (see Executive Order 6102.

They would be better off burying it in the ground or buying foreign gold certificates that will store it for them such as the Perth Mint.

drmyk said:   
As I see it, I can get a rider for my homeowners insurance to cover the coins and write the cost of it off as a christmas present to this relative.


jerosen said:   Why don't they buy their own safe?


Buy the relative a safe as a Christmas present and be done with it?

As someone told me recently. Much better to invest in guns, bullets, whiskey, chocolate, cigarettes, nylon and other things that wold have significant value if there were a huge disaster.

steve1jr said:   "Or, I could be clear that if the safe is stolen/whatever then this relative is SOL on the coins."

This...also stage a breakin' and put some scratch marks on the safe. Maybe it will scare them into getting their crap out of your place! I feel for you, that is an awkward position to be put in.


Or just tell them that there was a robbery in your neighborhood where the thieves popped open a safe and made off with $$$ worth of precious metals...

OP- this is simple. Just talk with the relative. Be honest and set some expectations about how much gold you are willing to store. Chances are they have no idea it is inconveniencing you. No need to make up crazy stories.

Not going to make up any stories-I only have a few silver coins at this point, but my relative wants to ship out a bunch more now that the retirement is liquidated.
Better off financially than my relative, going to buy them a safe deposit box at their bank. Let them deal with it.

We do live in a safe neighborhood. Safe is set in concrete. Alarm system. The 9mm someone previously noted. In the end, a bank is a much better place. Tired of letting the craziness of others rub off on me.

Instead of getting a rider on your home insurance and risk keeping all that gold in your house, won't it be cheaper if you just get a lock box in your bank and store the coins there for them?
I think if you have a premium bank account you can get a lock box for free; and even otherwise, they are no more than $50 a year for customers.

I had a client, older Asian woman, who kept a lifetime of gold in her safe... this was circa 2007. Anyways, one day she was home alone and some armed robbers kicked the door in, beat her to a pulp... and dragged the hidden safe out to a heavy-duty truck they had brought for this job.

Insurance refused to pay because they said it was an inside job (I'm sure it was a specific relative, but that's another story), so they denied the claim... she filed suit for insurance bad faith. In the interim her $150k loss turned into a $450k loss with the price of gold having taken off by the time I met her.

The other end of the scale are the people who hoard gold their whole life, and then they die and some stranger finds it in the house after they buy it. This type of find often makes the news. I have a feeling that 98% of these finds never make the news.

drmyk said:   Or, I could plan on keeping all the shiny metal if there is a zombie invasion.There is only one thing that will have value in the event of a breakdown of civil government: the willingness and ability to kill another human being without hesitation. Didn't you watch the Mad Max movies? Did you see any nerdy guys walking around with pounds of gold on or about their person?

ubermichaelthomas said:    I can do a very convincing drug addict

Yes we know this.

My insurance company told me they would not sell me any insurance covering more than a small amount of cash or "collectibles." which includes gold and silver. I think the limit was $200. So this might not even be possible.

brettdoyle said:   A safety deposit box is a terrible idea that makes it easy for it to be confiscated by lawsuits or by the government (see Executive Order 6102.

They would be better off burying it in the ground or buying foreign gold certificates that will store it for them such as the Perth Mint.


There was only one person in the country who was prosecuted to have their gold taken from them under Executive Order 6102.
There were not federal agents forcing banks to open safety deposit boxes, as is commonly believed.

Harksaw said:   My insurance company told me they would not sell me any insurance covering more than a small amount of cash or "collectibles." which includes gold and silver. I think the limit was $200. So this might not even be possible.

brettdoyle said:   A safety deposit box is a terrible idea that makes it easy for it to be confiscated by lawsuits or by the government (see Executive Order 6102.

They would be better off burying it in the ground or buying foreign gold certificates that will store it for them such as the Perth Mint.


There was only one person in the country who was prosecuted to have their gold taken from them under Executive Order 6102.
There were not federal agents forcing banks to open safety deposit boxes, as is commonly believed.


Sure, but the government still made it a criminal act to possess gold under the penalty of $10,000 and/or up to five to ten years imprisonment and forced individuals to trade their gold for depreciating pieces of paper with no intrinsic value at artificially low prices.

Based on the historic relationship the US government has of screwing over gold owners, it would be wise to store it in a location they can't locate or access.

I really don't know why, but I feel this has the merits to be one of the better FW stories of 2012.

I'd suggest that they store it in their own house. There are many ways to store valuables. Talk to them about security through obscurity. Have a wall with no outlet plug on it? Go buy a plate at Home Depot, cut a hole in the wall and then cover with the plate. Instant hiding spot for coins/bullion. Have you ever seen how much space is behind your dresser drawers? Affix a box with duct tape. There are many more I could list, but I bet you get the idea. Security is not always a safe. Heck, it's almost never a home safe unless that thing is heavy duty and bolted to concrete with internal only bolts. Most home safes are a joke. I'd suggest hiding the goods and that way the are available at any time to him. Have him hit up some of the more popular silver/gold forums for more hiding ideas.

Buy some scrap cars and park them in their driveway or better yet a massive RV or cabin cruiser boat, when they ask why or want to move them tell them they will have to move their coins. Honestly I don't know why you are risking your well being to store their assets. I am sure they were dumb and took a huge tax and penalty hit when they cased out their 401k after listing to an infowars-Alex Jones show. Sad that they didn't prudently diversify, you should not be a warehouse for metals. Buy them a safe for Christmas, they can get their own rider on insurance.

Get this then tell them to use a concealed safe placed on the other side of the house in the rafters or in the floor under furnishings. Have them put some fake eBay gold in it (plated 1 oz bars are like $3) and some a few silver rounds plus some other knickknacks.
http://www.costco.com/Bighorn-B6039EL-Heavy-duty-Safe.product.11...

diversion
http://www.costco.com/.product.11670807.html

Tell them to sell the gold and silver at a high/profit and go on with life...

He doesn't trust banks, so why would he want to store it in a safety deposit box in a bank? A judge can put a hold on those boxes and pull assets out of them to pay debts I think.

Maybe you can find a deal on a floor safe that you drill into the floor and get him that for XMas and wash your hands of it. I'm sure he feels comfort knowing that YOU'RE his bank and it's YOUR responsibility to make sure it's safe.

I'd tell the wife's relatives, with the wife present, that I feel uncomfortable with all that Au/Ag in the house. Add to that the fact that if thieves were to hold you to gunpoint, force you to open the safe, that this would lead to bad family relations. I'd tell them that it's safer to place all this metal in a bank's safe deposit box. The wife's relatives should become responsible for handling of their material wealth, not you, unless they're paying you for the service.

I hope you and you relative are keeping track of what has been placed in your safe in some document/spreadsheet, etc. Otherwise an honest mistake can result in a disagreement and forever ruining relationship with your relative, which may affect your relationship with your wife.

Long term, I agree with the majority of the posts here. Get the stuff out of your box. Nothing good will come out of it.


Glen Beck is not the be all end all for gold silver...in fact, the US has only experienced a pure fiat standard for 40 years...before our current pure fiat system...gold silver served as money for well over 5000. To attribute saving in gold to Glen Beck tin foil hat nuttiness shows your ignorance...I don't own any...cough...but I surely don't find it odd to put money there versus a .01% HIGH YIELD savings account either...

Notice: there is a difference between MONEY and CURRENCY...

buy your uncle a shovel and a plat map of their own back yard.

wheeee! pirate fun for everyone!

Options:

1) Bury in hole in back yard, mark with large "X"

2) See #1 but fancier, like the Oak Island Money Pit


I have a wacky conspiracy theorist cousin who, five years ago, strenuously advised me to liquidate everything and put it into gold. His reason: he had it on irrefutable authority that Pres. Bush was about to wage undeclared war on Iran, declare martial law, suspend the 2008 Presidential election, continue on in office indefinitely, and tie the US monetary system into a global currency that was controlled by the nefarious IBC ("International Banking Cabal"). While his predictions turned out to be just as batshit-looney as they sounded back then, I would have made a nice chunk of change had I heeded his advice just based on the increase in value of gold.

Skipping 23 Messages...
1. Crazy Relative
2. Liquidate 401k into precious metals
3. profit ???



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