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i3ighead said:   cpaynter said:   Alcibiades said:   cpaynter said:   For all of 2012, we've received two payments ...
In October we told them (much too late), that's it, you're out on January 1 and we put the place on the market. So I just get a call from her. They've found a place and they need a reference

Will they be paying all 10 missing payments for 2012 (and any others missing for 2011 or whatever)?


Are you kidding? We're not going to get another dime out of them. We just want to sell the house, hopefully for about what they owe us, and walk away from this disaster.

Chris.


WHat cultural background are you?


Not sure what you're driving at, and not sure why it would matter, but all concerned are WASP.

Chris.

cpaynter said:   jojosung said:   in your reference.. this person has been our tenant from xxx to xxxx. they are never late on rent. (Your not lying, since they don't pay.. so it's not really late)

So many great ideas. But I have a feeling that if the landlord got me on the phone he/she would have a way of asking me a direct question that I'd get stuck on. I can deal with evading the truth, but still can't find it in myself to lie, even though I know it would be to my advantage. I did tell her she's free to give out our listed phone number - it goes straight to an answering machine, and if they leave a message we just won't reply to it. Maybe that will satisfy the landlord that they provided a reference. If we don't return the call, they can't fault the potential renter, right? I also suggested she could tell the landlord that a family member provided them housing free of rent (which is effectively how it turned out).

Since my posting I've learned that there is another family member (who's already expressed disgust with how horribly we've treated the freeloaders) who is perfectly willing to lie and say that she is my wife and that all payments were on time and in full. So they'll probably just give the landlord her number and say it's ours. So she can do the lying (both about her identity and the payments). Let it be on her head. I just want this whole mess over with.

Never lend money to family.

Chris.


Provide the reference, but don't do it via phone. If someone calls, ask them for an email address or fax number and tell them the you'll have the landlord send them a reference. Then, include only the info that SIS recommended.

immobilize their car and remove all the food from the house. they will leave in search of food and it will be easier to just find shelter someplace else. thats how i get rid of rats when they get in my house, i make it so they can't get around and do my best to make it impossible for them to get at my food. then they leave.

jermony said:   why they do things like that? why they didn't pay at right time? did they have any problem or something? if i were u, i will firstly ask them if they have any problem, if there is not, i will tell them to pay on time. If they didn't do it on contract, i will kick them out!

Edited verbose diatribe to say: They didn't pay because they didn't feel paying family back was a priority.

Chris.

What is the legality of a 'pay for reference' agreement?
I.E. Relatives agree to pay (written contract) back rent over X period of time in return for glowing reference.

no

imsparty said:   What is the legality of a 'pay for reference' agreement?
I.E. Relatives agree to pay (written contract) back rent over X period of time in return for glowing reference.


No need to create another contract that wont be enforced, one already exists.

Provide the reference, but don't do it via phone. If someone calls, ask them for an email address or fax number and tell them the you'll have the landlord send them a reference. Then, include only the info that SIS recommended.

Same general idea but just call and leave the reference on the potential landlords voicemail. That way you avoid being cross examined and the avoid the weirdness of providing a written reference. I've left employment reference voicemails more than a dozen times and only gotten 1-2 follows. To make things safer end with something like. "If need additional info please don't hesitate to call although ill be traveling frequently in December" if they call, don't call back.

Don't lie please. Same people that say to lie to get them out are probably the same ones who one day will post "but their referances checked out..." thread when they get stuck with dirt bags like this.

JaxFL said:   imsparty said:   What is the legality of a 'pay for reference' agreement?
I.E. Relatives agree to pay (written contract) back rent over X period of time in return for glowing reference.


No need to create another contract that wont be enforced, one already exists.


I couldn't have said it better myself.

Chris.

DamnoIT said:   scubasteve said:   DamnoIT said:   They may become a model tenant when they are not using and abusing family. Pretend this is the case and give them the reference. I would bait them on the $1k though, $250 up front and then $750 never.


Thus making you as much of a douche as them?


Not at all, did you read the OP post? "For all of 2012, we've received two payments" that with the gift of a good reference and $250 makes you in no possible way a "douche", pretty nice guy if you ask me. They are not the tenants Mommy and Daddy, nor should they cover/wipe their behind. Perhaps if you are so generous you will let them move in with you rent free? If not perhaps you are the distinction that you are referring to.


I was in no way suggesting that $250 wasn't sufficient. The dollar amount doesn't matter. But making a promise to someone and then going back on your word makes you just as dishonest as them. It doesn't matter if they've already lied to you, if you choose to lie & deceive them, you're compromising your own ethics.

You could always say that they were family and you didn't really charge them rent, but they contributed toward the household. Now you have to sell the house. Thats it.

scubasteve said:   DamnoIT said:   scubasteve said:   DamnoIT said:   They may become a model tenant when they are not using and abusing family. Pretend this is the case and give them the reference. I would bait them on the $1k though, $250 up front and then $750 never.


Thus making you as much of a douche as them?


Not at all, did you read the OP post? "For all of 2012, we've received two payments" that with the gift of a good reference and $250 makes you in no possible way a "douche", pretty nice guy if you ask me. They are not the tenants Mommy and Daddy, nor should they cover/wipe their behind. Perhaps if you are so generous you will let them move in with you rent free? If not perhaps you are the distinction that you are referring to.


I was in no way suggesting that $250 wasn't sufficient. The dollar amount doesn't matter. But making a promise to someone and then going back on your word makes you just as dishonest as them. It doesn't matter if they've already lied to you, if you choose to lie & deceive them, you're compromising your own ethics.


Exactly. I'm trying to accomplish what I'm doing with the utmost integrity, even though they didn't act with integrity. See, when it comes down to it, we really love these people; they're family, whatever bad choices and bad actions they've taken. We want them to succeed, and that means they need to practice integrity. For better or worse, we're probably in the best spot to model ethics for them. Perhaps if they see us acting rightly, it act as a positive influence on them.

Chris.



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