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GermanBoy said:   I was told that Chase had concluded their investigation, that the balance transfer had cleared, and that it went to "a non-US account" so there was nothing that could be done from the Chase side.
What was the banking institution where the funds were sent to? If they can't provide a name, at least the numbers of the institutions. There is absolutely no reason not to provide this information. Privacy laws pertain to individuals, not institutions. They can leave off the specific account, and you might need legal action to pursue that if they can't figure out the problem in-house. If you can't find the bank from the number, post it here and I'm sure someone can help out.

It might be a case of one digit off being foreign bank instead of AMEX.

macosx said:   GermanBoy said:   I was told that Chase had concluded their investigation, that the balance transfer had cleared, and that it went to "a non-US account" so there was nothing that could be done from the Chase side.
What was the banking institution where the funds were sent to? If they can't provide a name, at least the numbers of the institutions. There is absolutely no reason not to provide this information. Privacy laws pertain to individuals, not institutions. They can leave off the specific account, and you might need legal action to pursue that if they can't figure out the problem in-house. If you can't find the bank from the number, post it here and I'm sure someone can help out.

It might be a case of one digit off being foreign bank instead of AMEX.

Or simply the fact that bluebird is a new card, with a new account prefix, and is a debit card not a credit card. Saying it went to a "foreign" account could simply be because the card doesn't show on the list of available credit cards (because its not a credit card).

I'd assume the only problem is that much like trying to send a BT to your checking account's debit card, it simply doesn't work. And now you need to wait for their next reconciliation cycle for them to find the misplaced $3k and return it where it's supposed to do. You may be able to speed the process up, but finding someone able to who actually knows how is going to take pure luck.

I have had similar experience with chase. I had returned a $650 purchase while being out-of-country.
the merchant returned the purchase and I had the receipt to show for it. Initially Chase kept saying wait a while as it is international and then started saying that you are out of the dispute time period. I took a multi-pronged approach. Filed a complaint at BBB, filed a complaint with Attorney general of Delaware where Chase is incorporated, and the consumer financial protection office. The current CFPB didn't exist then, but there was/is a similar Federal body called OCC(or something). Don't know which one worked but a week later I get a call from a Chase employee from corporate office who seemed to be able to move things around. After lengthy discussion they credited the money back to my account. I'd say dispute the transaction in-writing within the 60-day period. They'll make ANY excuse possible to avoid doing anything...

newlin99 said:   SUCKISSTAPLES said:   Is your small claims court closer? Go file and magically things will start getting resolved

But the thing you don't explain is whether chase sent the bt to the right bluebird account numbers. Did you confirm with bluebird that the info you told chase was the correct info ?


That would be my guess. Did you verify the correct routing and account number. Did you use an account number or your card number.

Also how were you planning on profiting off of this bt?


I used the Bluebird card number to do the balance transfer. I was planning on profiting off this by forward-paying my student loan, giving me an effective 6% rate of return.

faw169 said:   Could that "non-US account" happen to be a "GermanAccount"? Are you sure you entered correct routing number and account number? Anyway, like others said, Chase seems your best source of solution.

Small claims would leave you a permanent public recorder that anyone can see.

Good luck and report back.


Just to be clear, there *should* be no foreign account involved. The transfer was from a U.S.-based Chase card, to a U.S.-based Bluebird card. I just mentioned that because the person on the phone with Chase mentioned it, possibly indicating that they sent the money to the wrong place.

I'm based in the U.S. I don't have any foreign bank accounts. (I did have a German bank account at one point, but I closed that when I moved back to the U.S.)

Ok so you just entered the number on your bluebird card as the bt destination and hoped it would be transferred there?

Send a copy of your bb card showing the number to the CEO of chase and tell them you entered the number correctly and it has not been credited to your account

Glitch99 said:   I'd assume the only problem is that much like trying to send a BT to your checking account's debit card, it simply doesn't work. And now you need to wait for their next reconciliation cycle for them to find the misplaced $3k and return it where it's supposed to do. You may be able to speed the process up, but finding someone able to who actually knows how is going to take pure luck.

I spent some more time on the phone with Chase and Bluebird today. The Bluebird person I spoke with was in Phoenix at the AMEX corporate office (not the normal offshore call center for Bluebird) and she couldn't find anything, so I am satisfied that AMEX actually can't see the balance transfer money.

The Chase person I was escalated to was able to initiate a trace on the balance transfer. He said that this would cause someone to call AMEX and verify that the funds went into the account (or not). He said if they couldn't verify that funds had gone into my account at AMEX, this balance transfer would be reversed. This sounds promising. I'll get a letter confirming that the trace has started in 5-7 business days and a letter with the results in 14-21 business days.

I'm thinking that, at this point, I should wait and see what happens with that. I've already sent a letter to Chase to dispute the charge, so I am covered there.

Thoughts?

GermanBoy said:   
The Chase person I was escalated to was able to initiate a trace on the balance transfer. He said that this would cause someone to call AMEX and verify that the funds went into the account (or not). He said if they couldn't verify that funds had gone into my account at AMEX, this balance transfer would be reversed. This sounds promising. I'll get a letter confirming that the trace has started in 5-7 business days and a letter with the results in 14-21 business days.

I'm thinking that, at this point, I should wait and see what happens with that. I've already sent a letter to Chase to dispute the charge, so I am covered there.

Thoughts?

I think that's as good as you'll do for now, tracing the payment is what needs to happen. Any further effort is either going to 1) duplicate what's already being done, or 2) interfere with what's already being done.

Bluebird terms and conditions clearly state there is a limit of $100 a day for debit card transfers. ACH from a checking or savings account is $10,000 a month. There are routing and account numbers that are different than the card number also.

There are enough bad reviews online about Blubird that anyone should think twice before doing anything with them. Good luck.

chase always messes up. once i applied for a credit card with them that had an annual fee. they sent me $500 in giftcards. when i cancelled the card the next day, they ended up refunding my annual fee?? i realized chase was stupid, so i reapplied for the cardi had just cancelled, got another $500 in giftcards and got the annual fee refunded again after i cancelled again. all within 3 or so months. i did not do it a 3rd time because i felt so bad for chase.
im guessin since they give me all this free money, they have to get it from somewhere. so im sorry to say I guess they fund their programs that benefit me using your money.
i do thank you my friend, even if you did not contribute to my warchest willingly.
love
oliver

Here's several suggestions.

1. Treat this as a chance to get and education
1a Don't expect success but treat it as an education
1b Take notes including comments about your feelings (seriousl)
1c If you have friends, A Mom and Dad, sister, brother, enlist them to learn with you.

summary for 1. Treat this as a class where everything you encounter is an element in your eduction
Why and waht's confusing. There's no name for this class you're creating yet. So it seems backwards. Ignore the reasons to quit
and 'go on faith' you're doing something right.

Common problems = You don't have the time for it.
Answer = It's not about the money anymore. It's about finding how things work. Sharing the answers will happen because you've
written down what you've learned.


2. Contact the FBI with a snail mail registered letter CC (copying it) to your House of Representatives
Rep (look it up online usually through your zip code).

2a Each of your friends you've enlisted in this 'class' will do the same indicating in their own words that they too don't expect
to see this happen in 'polite society' or 'The American system' .. whatever they deem to be the right wording
You pay for their costs in sending the registered letter(s) to the FBI and their House of Representatives representative.
Tip - pay a younger brother sister friend or someone to help keep track of this stuff people are doing.. consider it a donation to
educating the youth. If you don't have money PM me and I may pay for it for you.

2b CC the letters you sent to your Senators. Each State has 2 of them.

3a. Send a note to the White House indicating what you went through and who's you've contacted. Do this about a week or 2 after
sending the notes above. Someone may contact the House and Senate on your behalf encouraging them to help.

4. Phone local banks and ask, very nicely and happily as if you're making new friends, to talk with the branch manager.
Ask him or her about themself. Say you like to get to know people and that you're looking to put money into the bank but that
knowing people is your most valued relationship with the bank. Believe it or not that's what rich and powerful people admire.
If you get the right person call them back later and mention that a problem has come up and simply ask them who they would get
in touch with. Tell them that a friend suggested you write the Justice Department but ask them if there's other official 'bodies'
to whom you can turn to for help. Also if it's a woman or man send her $30 worth of flowers thanking her for help (if she treated
you well) and if it's a man buy at restaurants.com a gift certificate for the nicer restaruants. Send it to him snail mail thanking
him for his help Your cost $10 .. the value to him $50 maybe and 'a friend who takes care of him'

That's the point here. Finding and making friends..taking care of them and they will for 2 reasons take care of you
a. They're people of integrity and they know what happened to you is wrong, illegal, and evil.
b. They're people who appreciate someone caring for them and they've learned that to care for you only grows into a better life.

That's my position. By taking notes you learn something. By 'writing off the money' you're tested. Passing the testing phase creates
new life in you and new understanding for the future. Investing now means the next 100 years of your life may not fail problems which
create pain and frustration.

The details I suppose.

Citibank knows who they sent the money to. They are obligated to show the paper trail showing who it went to.
Someone knows how CBank is protected if someone makes an error.
By the way: A wrong routing number or bank account number is virtually impossible to create sending money to the wrong person.
They both have to 'fit each other' (as is my understanding) before a payment will be accepted. The only exception is when the
routing number goes to a bank who has the ability to create criminal accounts where by every account from 1 to 100000 is fake.
Routing numbers, I believe, are issued by a Federal Agency or International Agencies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Routing_transit_number
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_code

Knowing the bank code but making a mistake on the account number will mean the bank won't accept it because it won't exist.
Someone at Citibank may have falsified the bank code and account. In that case Citibank is liable and a Federal Agency
I say the FBI because wire transfers fall under FBI jurisdiction (in my understanding), is charged with following up wire fraud.

Summary: I say it's wire fraud.

Good luck with the education. Keep us informed of the site, blog, vid you create.
Thanks

Write a blog about this. You can use the public blog as the place you put your 'class notes'.
Make it a video blog on YouTube. Be unemotional. If you have a friend or younger person who will set it up and just say 'action' again
you're educating the youth on more than tech.






2a Send a

Glitch99 said:   GermanBoy said:   

Thoughts?

I think that's as good as you'll do for now, tracing the payment is what needs to happen. Any further effort is either going to 1) duplicate what's already being done, or 2) interfere with what's already being done.


Do what President Ronald Reagan would say, "Trust but Verify"

Update: I submitted a complaint to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau yesterday, around 1:00pm. By 3:00pm, I had someone from Chase's Card Services Executive Office calling me. Today, I had a temporary credit back to the account and it sounds like Chase is going to get this resolved.

Score one for the CPFB.

Still frustrating that Chase couldn't solve this internally.

Glitch99 said:   
I'd assume the only problem is that much like trying to send a BT to your checking account's debit card, it simply doesn't work.


That is correct. The OP should have never used the BB card # for the BT since there is routing # and account # separate from the BB card #. The OP can check the routing # and account # @ https://secure.bluebird.com/Profile/FundingSources Routing # is 124071889, by the way.

Good luck tracing the $3k.

Glitch99 said:   
I'd assume the only problem is that much like trying to send a BT to your checking account's debit card, it simply doesn't work.

I have BT'ed to a debit card (Discover to BoA, 2 years ago) and it worked just fine.

brawa said:   Glitch99 said:   
I'd assume the only problem is that much like trying to send a BT to your checking account's debit card, it simply doesn't work.

I have BT'ed to a debit card (Discover to BoA, 2 years ago) and it worked just fine.


OK...So? The topic is Chase -> BB. Not Discover to BoA. Plus G didn't say "all" BT transfers to debit cards would fail.

I want to know where the money disappeared to...

GermanBoy said:   Update: I submitted a complaint to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau yesterday, around 1:00pm. By 3:00pm, I had someone from Chase's Card Services Executive Office calling me. Today, I had a temporary credit back to the account and it sounds like Chase is going to get this resolved.

Score one for the CPFB.

Still frustrating that Chase couldn't solve this internally.


Green for update. The CPFB and FWF. Sounds like the beginning of a wonderful friendship if you ask me.

KYBOSH said:   I want to know where the money disappeared to...

I am still following the thread. It looks like, January 8th, someone at AMEX loaded the $3000 into my Bluebird account. Chase hasn't contacted me to tell me that the issue hasn't been closed yet, so I suspect they are still tying things up on their end.

GermanBoy said:   Update: I submitted a complaint to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau yesterday, around 1:00pm. By 3:00pm, I had someone from Chase's Card Services Executive Office calling me. Today, I had a temporary credit back to the account and it sounds like Chase is going to get this resolved.

Score one for the CPFB.

Still frustrating that Chase couldn't solve this internally.
99% of problems can be solved with a little patience and persistence... 1% of problems require the threat of a swift kick in the ass. This problem fell into the latter category.

enc0re said:   GermanBoy said:   Update: I submitted a complaint to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau yesterday, around 1:00pm. By 3:00pm, I had someone from Chase's Card Services Executive Office calling me. Today, I had a temporary credit back to the account and it sounds like Chase is going to get this resolved.

Score one for the CPFB.

Still frustrating that Chase couldn't solve this internally.


Green for update. The CPFB and FWF. Sounds like the beginning of a wonderful friendship if you ask me.

Unfortunately, no. The CFPB is going to slowly eliminate the environment I which FatWallet works best. The consumers they are "protecting" are the ones who make our exploits possible.

KYBOSH said:   I want to know where the money disappeared to...
It probably didnt disappear, just hit a roadblock and was sitting in limbo waiting for the next discrepancy report (weekly, monthly, quarterly?) to be reconciled.

I would love to know where the money went also

So wait...OP said he has $3000 on his BB account now. I'd say BT was successful?


GermanBoy said:   KYBOSH said:   I want to know where the money disappeared to...

I am still following the thread. It looks like, January 8th, someone at AMEX loaded the $3000 into my Bluebird account. Chase hasn't contacted me to tell me that the issue hasn't been closed yet, so I suspect they are still tying things up on their end.

Good catch. I just assumed this would all get reversed and didn't read his update that closely.


So I guess if anyone wants to send BT to BB the process just takes several weeks and a CFPB complaint. Good to know.

Crazytree said:   99% of problems can be solved with a little patience and persistence... 1% of problems require the threat of a swift kick in the ass. This problem fell into the latter category.

you can get further with a kind word and a gun than you can with just a kind word. just dont forget the kind word, thats the important part.

I think someone else should try it...just to see how it goes. Maybe this was a one-time fluke that had nothing to do with a Chase to BB BT? Maybe it was simply some error in Chase, or perhaps a new employee at Chase handled it improperly? There's too many what-ifs here that cannot be answered with this one-time experience.

I'd try it, but don't have a BB account, nor any Chase BT offers.

So does op now have $3000 in his bb account PLUS chase credited the money?? Woohoo!!

Bank error collect $3000!

SUCKISSTAPLES said:   So does op now have $3000 in his bb account PLUS chase credited the money?? Woohoo!!

Bank error collect $3000!


I have my doubts about this actually being the end result. However, if so, looks like OP just inadvertently socially engineered someone!

SUCKISSTAPLES said:   So does op now have $3000 in his bb account PLUS chase credited the money?? Woohoo!!

Bank error collect $3000!
Yeah, I wouldn't get too excited. I had some random website charge around $16 bucks to my chase CC. Chase flagged the transaction before it was able to post and after calling me, they blocked it so it never showed on my account. But then after that, the website gave me a credit for the same amount. Two months later, the website charged the same amount to the same card.



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