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Update - Just got the policy renewal notice for the next 6 months.

For the same coverage the rate went down a couple of bucks

========================
This is in PA.

1) Made a not at fault claim on my auto insurance some 15-18 months ago. Other driver was clearly at fault, police report said as such and the other driver & their insurance accepted liability also.

I let my insurance Geico handle the repairs on my car and they recouped the monies from the other insurance company. My rates have not gone up since then.

2) Wife and kid were in the same car tonight and were rear ended by a careless teen who admitted to both my wife and the cop that she was not paying attention and rear ended. Cop said he put that in the police report.

My wife was stationary at a red light, but the impact was enough to push our car into the one in the front, not much damage to that one, but interestingly that vehicle fled the scene and returned back to the scene 30-45 minutes later (while the officer was still there).

So teen in Car A rearends Car B (ours, stationary) and ours rearends Car C (also stationary).

Not sure if Car C will go after our insurance?

Should we just contact our insurance (Geico) and let them handle it so that in case Car C's driver contacts our insurance (Geico), they will have the full picture?

3) Are our rates going to go up due to two not at fault claims within 2 years? Assuming we are indeed not at fault (not sure how state laws work in these types of 3 car accidents).

Did some reading up on Google now and it seems that in most cases Car A has been deemed liable for damage to both Cars B and C.

Thanks in advance!! Again this is in PA.

If any additional information is needed please ask and I will provide. Need to make a decision soon since the car is badly banged up and need a rental to get around.

PS: I realize that I can call my insurance company and ask these questions also, but just that call itself may well trigger a claim into the CLUE system hence asking the wise crowd here first. Thanks!

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Uh, yes they can.

BEEFjerKAY (Jan. 04, 2013 @ 8:30a) |

So for reasons unknown the vehicle (after being repaired) came back with the car seat in it. I thought Geico would have ... (more)

newbietx (Jan. 23, 2013 @ 8:58a) |

Update - Just got the policy renewal notice for the next 6 months.

For the same coverage the rate went down a couple of b... (more)

newbietx (Mar. 09, 2013 @ 8:12p) |

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Use an alt when calling your insurance company.

qcumber98 said:   Use an alt when calling your insurance company.

Any suggestions on how to pull this off? They won't discuss hypothetical scenario if I tell them I am not a Geico customer.

I certainly don't want to fake somebody else's name or insurance information to get this. So how to make this alt work?

Inform your insurer.

I hope the cop put car c ran from the scene then came back in his report

They were likely changing drivers or dumping contraband , and the only reason they came back is they intend to make a claim against you

newbietx said:    .... PS: I realize that I can call my insurance company and ask these questions also, but just that call itself may well trigger a claim into the CLUE system hence asking the wise crowd here first. Thanks!

This is a great opportunity to offer all FWF participants who have had a claim a free CLUE report.

Your rates will go up. Geico is notorious for this. You are given 1 free not at fault, after that you will see a change in your premium. They will not charge you for it, but most likely they will retier you. You can only be"charged" for at fault accidents, based on how Geico files their rates with the state I would not put it past them to charge for two not at faults. .

SUCKISSTAPLES said:   Inform your insurer.

I hope the cop put car c ran from the scene then came back in his report

They were likely changing drivers or dumping contraband , and the only reason they came back is they intend to make a claim against you


Thanks SIS. You spoke my mind. I had just arrived at the scene (from work after my wife called me to inform me about the accident) when I saw Car C return back to the scene. Just then the officer was telling me that Car C had called 911 from some undisclosed location informing that he had been hit and the 911 operator advised Car C to return back to the scene and also radioed the officer to inform him about this.

First thing that came to my mind was that Car C was switching drivers or dumping contraband. We have the report number, perhaps I will go pay the $15 and get a copy of the report first before calling Geico today. Thanks for your response.

redstork said:   Your rates will go up. Geico is notorious for this. You are given 1 free not at fault, after that you will see a change in your premium. They will not charge you for it, but most likely they will retier you. You can only be"charged" for at fault accidents, based on how Geico files their rates with the state I would not put it past them to charge for two not at faults. .

Oh that would suck. I was just re-tiered into a great rate with Geico (some 3 months ago). Geico already had the best rate in my area for my coverage but 3 months ago they dropped my rates (re-tiered) by 30% with the same coverage (thanks to a thread here on FWF that said Geico was re-tiering to lower rates in many parts of the country). I guess I have no choice but to wait and watch.

If Car C was not involved I could just have dealt with Car A and be done with the claim but its complicated now. Oh well I will let Geico handle it and see how it goes.

Thanks!

Wanted to ask one more thing, our kid (around 4) was in a forward facing car seat buckled (with the seat belt of the car, not the car seat's 5 point harness). Not sure if we need to get the car seat replaced and/or the seat belt? Ditto for wife's (driver side) seat belt? Any experts here know?

Depending on how the wife and kid are feeling will also try to get them checked out at the doctor's today, even though wife's car was stationary, she said the teen's car was driving at speed (perhaps 20-30 mph??) and the wife saw the car in the rear view coming in as it plowed in. Apparently the teen had her sight on the GPS (was lost and was trying to feed an address into it while driving).

newbietx said:   
So teen in Car A rearends Car B (ours, stationary) and ours rearends Car C (also stationary).

Not sure if Car C will go after our insurance?

Should we just contact our insurance (Geico) and let them handle it so that in case Car C's driver contacts our insurance (Geico), they will have the full picture?


As a similar data point, here's how it worked for me. I was the Car B in a similar situation roughly 1 year ago. Driver in Car A admitted fault and it went into the police report. Driver A's insurance paid for repairs to both my car and car c. I contacted my insurance, told them the full story, and my rates never changed.

Thanks chrisjacobs!

newbietx said:   Wanted to ask one more thing, our kid (around 4) was in a forward facing car seat buckled (with the seat belt of the car, not the car seat's 5 point harness). Not sure if we need to get the car seat replaced and/or the seat belt? Ditto for wife's (driver side) seat belt? Any experts here know?

Depending on how the wife and kid are feeling will also try to get them checked out at the doctor's today, even though wife's car was stationary, she said the teen's car was driving at speed (perhaps 20-30 mph??) and the wife saw the car in the rear view coming in as it plowed in. Apparently the teen had her sight on the GPS (was lost and was trying to feed an address into it while driving).


I would. Someone pulled out in front of my wife a few years ago causing a crash, and we replaced ours for our toddler, and demanded it be included in the insurance claim.

Make sure you destroy the old one (cut the seat belts off it), so that it doesn't end up in a garage sale, or a prize to a dumpster diver.

Replace the car seat. I believe they are covered under insurance. If the child meets the requirements, get a booster with an adjustable tether (likely they all have on now) to hold the seatbelt in the right location.

I just moved and changes insurance companies. The new company is AAA and they consider all accidents with damages under $500 to be no-fault. There was no additional premium on the policy for those 2 claims.

newbietx said:   Wanted to ask one more thing, our kid (around 4) was in a forward facing car seat buckled (with the seat belt of the car, not the car seat's 5 point harness). Not sure if we need to get the car seat replaced and/or the seat belt? Ditto for wife's (driver side) seat belt? Any experts here know?

Depending on how the wife and kid are feeling will also try to get them checked out at the doctor's today, even though wife's car was stationary, she said the teen's car was driving at speed (perhaps 20-30 mph??) and the wife saw the car in the rear view coming in as it plowed in. Apparently the teen had her sight on the GPS (was lost and was trying to feed an address into it while driving).


Someone hit us at like 5 mph. Insurance company said that they were required to compensate us for new car seats even if there was no possibility of damage.

They will give you something like $120 per car seat. I see no reason to replace the car seats.

Since our car seat model in the $200+ range, we had to tell our insurance what car seat we had. They compensated us $200+ for retail on a new car seat for that model.

newbietx said:   redstork said:   Your rates will go up. Geico is notorious for this. You are given 1 free not at fault, after that you will see a change in your premium. They will not charge you for it, but most likely they will retier you. You can only be"charged" for at fault accidents, based on how Geico files their rates with the state I would not put it past them to charge for two not at faults. .

Oh that would suck. I was just re-tiered into a great rate with Geico (some 3 months ago). Geico already had the best rate in my area for my coverage but 3 months ago they dropped my rates (re-tiered) by 30% with the same coverage (thanks to a thread here on FWF that said Geico was re-tiering to lower rates in many parts of the country). I guess I have no choice but to wait and watch.

If Car C was not involved I could just have dealt with Car A and be done with the claim but its complicated now. Oh well I will let Geico handle it and see how it goes.

Thanks!


I used to have Geico because it was the cheapest at the time. I had a bad claims handling experience with them, and took my business elsewhere for an even cheaper rate at the time. I am not sure how their rates are filed for the state you live in.

I work in auto insurance underwriting for a different company. I only see the claims that are referred to underwriting or come in on new applications. Your rates may not change for another not-at-fault accident but Geico's computer model may deem that your claim frequency is an issue and change which tier you are in. It may stay the same for now, but if you all file any at-fault claims later, it could trigger underwriting action depending on how long you have been with them.

I hope that your rates do not go up and that everything goes smoothly for your family.

In Indiana car B is at fault for hitting car C, regardless of whether or not car A was the actual cause of B hitting C. The police say you should keep enough distance to prevent your car from hitting the car in front of you due to impact.

Since C fled the scene, I would contest any claim s/he files against you. Unless you had written down the plate number before the person fled the scene, I would not admit to hitting that specific car. You honestly don't know.

You should replace the car seat and count your blessings that no one was hurt.

Thanks all for the responses.

We filed a claim with Geico. The agent kept telling us that we are not at fault and that our rates won't go up (we shall see).

Told Geico about the suspicious behavior of the car that fled the scene. Gave all the information from the incident report.

Geico told us to buy a comparable new car seat for the child (and send them the receipt) and to leave our current car seat (the one that was in the accident) in the car so Geico will dispose of it (when the car gets to the BodyShop).

Once the car is in the BodyShop (most likely Monday) I shall talk to the adjuster to get the car seat belts (driver and the rear one holding the car seat) replaced.

Geico set us up with a comparable rental car. Will buy a new car seat shortly and install it.

Thanks again! Hope your weekend is going better than ours

computerquest said:    Since C fled the scene, I would contest any claim s/he files against you. Unless you had written down the plate number before the person fled the scene, I would not admit to hitting that specific car. You honestly don't know.

Excellent point! Wife said her car was pushed into another vehicle in the front but that was it, she didn't see the license plate or make or model (it was dark also). That vehicle was gone in a second and my wife was immediately trying to check on our child and trying to get the driver behind to pull into the parking lot so they could call 911. Ultimately it was my wife who called 911 and reported it.

So yes you are right, wife doesn't know which vehicle was in the front that was hit.

And now this guy disappearing and then showing up muddy's their case. There was hardly any damage to that vehicle. Cop said he inspected and only found a slightly bent tailpipe, that was it.

riznick said:   newbietx said:   Wanted to ask one more thing, our kid (around 4) was in a forward facing car seat buckled (with the seat belt of the car, not the car seat's 5 point harness). Not sure if we need to get the car seat replaced and/or the seat belt? Ditto for wife's (driver side) seat belt? Any experts here know?

Depending on how the wife and kid are feeling will also try to get them checked out at the doctor's today, even though wife's car was stationary, she said the teen's car was driving at speed (perhaps 20-30 mph??) and the wife saw the car in the rear view coming in as it plowed in. Apparently the teen had her sight on the GPS (was lost and was trying to feed an address into it while driving).


Someone hit us at like 5 mph. Insurance company said that they were required to compensate us for new car seats even if there was no possibility of damage.

They will give you something like $120 per car seat. I see no reason to replace the car seats.

Since our car seat model in the $200+ range, we had to tell our insurance what car seat we had. They compensated us $200+ for retail on a new car seat for that model.


Our car seat is also in the $200 range, will go get a comparable one. Some model close to our present one from the same brand should be available.

newbietx said:   riznick said:   newbietx said:   Wanted to ask one more thing, our kid (around 4) was in a forward facing car seat buckled (with the seat belt of the car, not the car seat's 5 point harness). Not sure if we need to get the car seat replaced and/or the seat belt? Ditto for wife's (driver side) seat belt? Any experts here know?

Depending on how the wife and kid are feeling will also try to get them checked out at the doctor's today, even though wife's car was stationary, she said the teen's car was driving at speed (perhaps 20-30 mph??) and the wife saw the car in the rear view coming in as it plowed in. Apparently the teen had her sight on the GPS (was lost and was trying to feed an address into it while driving).


Someone hit us at like 5 mph. Insurance company said that they were required to compensate us for new car seats even if there was no possibility of damage.

They will give you something like $120 per car seat. I see no reason to replace the car seats.

Since our car seat model in the $200+ range, we had to tell our insurance what car seat we had. They compensated us $200+ for retail on a new car seat for that model.


Our car seat is also in the $200 range, will go get a comparable one. Some model close to our present one from the same brand should be available.


Was the impact strong enough for the possibility of damage? That $200 could go towards something else if you are confident that the seats were not harmed. In my experience, they give you a check up front and don't ask for a receipt.

Warren Buffett's insurance will really screw you over next year. Time to start searching for a new carrier before you you get blackballed into the risk pool, we agree that you are the victim but Geico underwriters will get you.

Update: An adjuster from Car A (teen driver's) insurance called a little while ago. They said the teen's father called and filed a claim and explained everything and the adjuster said that liability is not an issue, the father admitted it was the teen's mistake. So she said their insurance company accepts liability for the crash.

I also asked the adjuster if they would cover the damages for Car C (the flaky driver who fled the scene). She said they would be doing that as well.

Since we had already initiated a claim with Geico she got our claim number and said they would coordinate with Geico in paying out all the expenses that we incur due to this accident.

snork615 said:   Warren Buffett's insurance will really screw you over next year. Time to start searching for a new carrier before you you get blackballed into the risk pool, we agree that you are the victim but Geico underwriters will get you.

I hear you. I will see what my renewal rate looks like before shopping around. Even if Geico raises our rates hopefully I can convince other insurers that both were not at fault claims and that Geico recouped their costs from the other companies. Of course it may be a moot point if everyone goes purely by the CLUE report, in which case maybe I have to go after the other driver for increased insurance costs?? Long shot perhaps, time will tell!

So this got me thinking, not that it will help my current situation but perhaps may be helpful to others in similar situation in the future.

1) Is it then advisable to go file a claim with the other party's insurance when liability is clearly established (as was in both our accidents)?

2) Is a claim in CLUE recorded against the claimant irrespective of which insurance they file a claim with?

For example, if instead of my insurance carrier Geico if I had filed with the other party's insurance, say for example Allstate, will there still be a CLUE report against me?

3) Hindsight is 20/20, but perhaps for the 1st accident (from 16 or so months ago) since it was a 2 car accident and the other party accepted liability it may have been advisable for me to file with the other insurance rather than Geico, that way the current claim would have been the first not at fault claim with Geico.

We live and learn I suppose.

It is too early to start answering any of these questions

Whether car A accepted liability or not, there's still a chance this shady car c driver or occupant will sue you. Regardless of the fact car A insurer is willing to accept liability . That is why it was Crucial to promptly notify your own insurer

newbietx said:    since it was a 2 car accident and the other party accepted liability it may have been advisable for me to file with the other insurance rather than Geico, that way the current claim would have been the first not at fault claim with Geico.

That's typically not the way things work.

newbietx said:   So this got me speculating without any basis in fact or experience in the industry ...

Sorry for your car crash.

Corrected your typo. Listen to Sis. You are wayyyyy over thinking this.

Do not try to apply consumer-orient logic to insurance company actions or decisions.

BEEFjerKAY said:   newbietx said:   So this got me speculating without any basis in fact or experience in the industry ...

Sorry for your car crash.

Corrected your typo. Listen to Sis. You are wayyyyy over thinking this.

Do not try to apply consumer-orient logic to insurance company actions or decisions.


SIS/BeefkerKAY I respect your advise (as well as other fellow FWers who have all chimed in on this thread) and it in fact was SIS's post which promptly made me file the claim with my own insurer. And you are right I am in fact trying to apply logic to an industry that probably doesn't follow any. Ok I will give up for now, its been a rough 24 hours

You need your insurer to defend you should car c make a claim against you.

In order for your insurer to defend you, you need to notify them of the incident , even if car a admits liability. Car A will not defend you if car C sues you

SUCKISSTAPLES said:   You need your insurer to defend ...

And if you do not promptly inform your insurer, you could be considered to not be in compliance with the terms of your insurance contract as regards your responsibilities to aid in their defense.

SUCKISSTAPLES said:   even if car a admits liability

Yup.

People often admit liability, then change their tune once the bills start coming in.

I was in a similar situation in 2005. I was rear-ended by a teen at probably 20-30mph at that point of the red light when you are almost stopped and raising your foot off the brake to ease into the stop. It pushed our car into the the car in front of us (minivan) and it pushed that car into the car in front of them (Range Rover). The insurance of the car that hit me paid for me and I would imagine they paid for the other cars as well because I know my insurance didn't have to pay for anything. They also paid for a new rear facing car seat, our daughter was less than 1 at the time. My car was in the shop for about 2 weeks and they paid for a rental car and even upgraded the car type to pickup truck since I'm 6' 6" and at first they were going to only pay for a compact car.

My insurance is Erie and I forget what theirs was, AIG maybe?. Mine never went up. I never heard of car insurance going up if accidents are not your fault but I know homeowners insurance goes up if you make 2 claim in like 5 years or something.

About three years ago I was rear ended in a parking lot. Not my fault. Other party's insurance paid all costs (my trunk lid needed replacing plus some other minor damage). My insurance didn't care.
10 months later I was hit by a drunk driver. He had no insurance. Major incident. Demolished my car, injuries, etc. I collected nearly $100,000 from my own uninsured motorist coverage. Maybe my insurance cared about their losses, but my rate didn't go up.
I'm thinking if one keeps getting into not at fault accidents there will be issues with your coverage. They'll wonder why you're accident prone. Still it's better to be not at fault than at fault (not taking into account injuries).

RE: replacing seat belts.
Any time you are in an accident serious enough to deploy the airbags any seatbelts that were in use need to be replaced. Modern cars contain a sensor that detects sudden loss of momentum. When this sensor is tripped there are explosives in the base of the seatbelt housing that act to forcibly retract the seatbelt and hopefully keep the occupants in the car and not going through the windshield. Obviously this is a one time action.

At the end of the day, you did nothing wrong, and the impact on insurance is out of your hand. I wouldn't think twice about it for that reason. If rates go up, it's not anything you can do something about. If they don't go up, you still can't do anything. That is, can't do anything apart from shopping around. I wouldn't worry about it for that reason.

burgerwars said:   About three years ago I was rear ended in a parking lot. Not my fault. Other party's insurance paid all costs (my trunk lid needed replacing plus some other minor damage). My insurance didn't care.
10 months later I was hit by a drunk driver. He had no insurance. Major incident. Demolished my car, injuries, etc. I collected nearly $100,000 from my own uninsured motorist coverage. Maybe my insurance cared about their losses, but my rate didn't go up.
I'm thinking if one keeps getting into not at fault accidents there will be issues with your coverage. They'll wonder why you're accident prone. Still it's better to be not at fault than at fault (not taking into account injuries).

That's what I would assume. After a certain amount, it would become a statistical anomaly, and they might begin to check out the claims a little bit more to make sure there's no fraud going on.

snork615 said:   Warren Buffett's insurance will really screw you over next year. Time to start searching for a new carrier before you you get blackballed into the risk pool, we agree that you are the victim but Geico underwriters will get you.
Lol - please explain this. They're bound to filing rates that are compatible/accepted by the state. Geico is not the toughest underwriter around - I would say Progressive is the best pricer in general for risk.

And look - because these are not at fault, companies will take that into consideration. Buffett, of all people, understands the difference between process and outcome. Just because someone got into a not-at-fault accident doesn't mean they caused it, and their actual risk profile may have not changed. In fact, 50% of most car accidents are likely not at fault, so you'd imagine that this is a routine item for them. If Geico is incorrectly viewing this risk, then it's to their own fault, not the consumer. Someone else can easily step in and properly write the risk.

Random: I don't get why anyone would call their insurance company when they're 100% not at-fault. I ALWAYS have called the at-fault driver's insurance and filed a claim that way. I know that your insurance, no matter the fault, is supposed to know...but why even bother getting them involved?

Skipping 34 Messages...
Update - Just got the policy renewal notice for the next 6 months.

For the same coverage the rate went down a couple of bucks



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