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I can't find much info about banks that allow ACH push without having to do account verification of some sort (trial deposits or login).

I want to send money via ACH to anyone using only a routing and account number. You can easily do this in most countries outside the USA.

Basically, I want the functionality of a wire transfer without the fees....(hmm, maybe that's why USA banks are stuck in the past: they make tons of money from wire transfer fees)


Here's the list, any others?


Banks:
- AAFCU (billpay)
- American Heritage Federal Credit Union (billpay)
- USAA
- Bank of North Carolina (billpay)
- Consumers Credit Union (billpay)
- Lake Michigan Credit Union (billpay)
- Northwest Federal Credit Union (billpay)
- Susquehanna Bank (billpay)


Other:
- Skrill/Moneybookers
- Popmoney.com (not free - fees depend on bank)

Member Summary
Most Recent Posts
Consumers's Credit Union is via billpay.

Zon (Dec. 18, 2013 @ 8:01a) |

FNBO Direct allows this.

NEDeals (Feb. 20, 2014 @ 6:31p) |

I have a feeling there is more to this story.  In any event, USAA's ACH system is top notch, although it is limited to 5... (more)

SpeedingLunatic (Feb. 21, 2014 @ 8:12a) |

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tdameritrade cancelled it about 6 months ago. prior to that, it could be done through their "billpay".

OliverQuackenbush said:   tdameritrade cancelled it about 6 months ago. prior to that, it could be done through their "billpay".

I think Bank of North Carolina offers ACH push via billpay, but I don't have an account with them. Can anyone verify if it's possible?

How To Quicly Empty A Bank Account 101

This might be a list of banks to avoid!

stanolshefski said:   How To Quicly Empty A Bank Account 101

This might be a list of banks to avoid!


I don't follow. Yes, I guess a bank that allows withdrawals from your own account is one way to quickly empty your own bank account.

FYI: The above banks ONLY allow a push without verification.... to do a pull/withdrawal you need to go through account verification (trial deposits, etc).


The quick way to empty someone else's bank account is this:

Get someone to write you a check. Now you have their routing/account info, name and most likely address and telephone number as well.

- Go and pay your credit card bill using the routing/account numbers! Almost no credit card company requires verification before you make a payment.
- Get a business merchant ACH account. Do pulls/withdrawals.
- Most easily of all: print a check using the routing/account info. For some reason people think you have to buy/get/receive "official" checks. Absolutely untrue. Anybody can print their own checks. This is one hundred percent legal.

I know of a (small) bank, but nevertheless an ACH originator, that allows account holders to push money out of their account to accounts at other institutions without need for trial deposits.

However

In order to take advantage of this service the account holder must fill out and sign a (paper) form and submit it in person at one of the branches of the bank. There is no charge for this service.

jfat10 said:   stanolshefski said:   How To Quicly Empty A Bank Account 101

This might be a list of banks to avoid!


I don't follow. Yes, I guess a bank that allows withdrawals from your own account is one way to quickly empty your own bank account.

FYI: The above banks ONLY allow a push without verification.... to do a pull/withdrawal you need to go through account verification (trial deposits, etc).


The quick way to empty someone else's bank account is this:

Get someone to write you a check. Now you have their routing/account info, name and most likely address and telephone number as well.

- Go and pay your credit card bill using the routing/account numbers! Almost no credit card company requires verification before you make a payment.
- Get a business merchant ACH account. Do pulls/withdrawals.
- Most easily of all: print a check using the routing/account info. For some reason people think you have to buy/get/receive "official" checks. Absolutely untrue. Anybody can print their own checks. This is one hundred percent legal.


Banks that allow you to easily push withdraws would be better targets for phishing and hacking, compared to banks that might require a more extensive process.

jfat10 said:   I can't find much info about banks that allow ACH push without having to do account verification of some sort (trial deposits or login).

I want to send money via ACH to anyone using only a routing and account number. You can easily do this in most countries outside the USA.

Basically, I want the functionality of a wire transfer without the fees....(hmm, maybe that's why USA banks are stuck in the past: they make tons of money from wire transfer fees)


Here's the list, any others?


Banks:
- USAA
- Bank of North Carolina (billpay)
- AAFCU (billpay)


Other:
- Skrill/Moneybookers

Popmoney.com

There's a lengthy list of banks that offer the service.

stanolshefski said:   jfat10 said:   stanolshefski said:   How To Quicly Empty A Bank Account 101

This might be a list of banks to avoid!


I don't follow. Yes, I guess a bank that allows withdrawals from your own account is one way to quickly empty your own bank account.

FYI: The above banks ONLY allow a push without verification.... to do a pull/withdrawal you need to go through account verification (trial deposits, etc).


The quick way to empty someone else's bank account is this:

Get someone to write you a check. Now you have their routing/account info, name and most likely address and telephone number as well.

- Go and pay your credit card bill using the routing/account numbers! Almost no credit card company requires verification before you make a payment.
- Get a business merchant ACH account. Do pulls/withdrawals.
- Most easily of all: print a check using the routing/account info. For some reason people think you have to buy/get/receive "official" checks. Absolutely untrue. Anybody can print their own checks. This is one hundred percent legal.


Banks that allow you to easily push withdraws would be better targets for phishing and hacking, compared to banks that might require a more extensive process.



Okay, but if a thief has stolen your login info to your bank account, that's fraud and you're not liable for anything the thief does to your account. Also, phishing and hacking can easily be avoided by most members of fatwallet (yes, we're above average)

A "more extensive process" might reduce costs for the bank (and thus increase their profits).

But for the consumer it increases costs (if time = money) and reduces options and flexibility (sending money to someone using only routing/account info is much easier and faster than giving them a paper check)

Additionally, for reasons outlined in my previous post, giving someone a paper check is a dangerous thing to do.

Paper checks = giving out your routing/account info to strangers
ACH push = NOT giving out your routing/account info to strangers


So, the above list of banks are ones NOT to avoid.


Popmoney.com

There's a lengthy list of banks that offer the service.



It requires work / hoop-jumping to be done by receiver.

ACH push and wire transfers require no work, hoop-jumping, confirmations, linking, verifications, etc....the money just shows up in the account.

jfat10 said:   
Popmoney.com

There's a lengthy list of banks that offer the service.



It requires work / hoop-jumping to be done by receiver.

ACH push and wire transfers require no work, hoop-jumping, confirmations, linking, verifications, etc....the money just shows up in the account.

Only if you send using the receiver's email or phone number (or whatever the options are). Any bank I've had offering the service also accepts routing/account numbers.

There may be copycat alternatives (or this may be the copycat), but this service is an example of exactly what you are looking for.


Only if you send using the receiver's email or phone number (or whatever the options are). Any bank I've had offering the service also accepts routing/account numbers.

There may be copycat alternatives (or this may be the copycat), but this service is an example of exactly what you are looking for.



Thanks, I'll take another look at it.

Fees:
$0.95 per payment (I guess this beats $20 for a wire transfer)

Limits:
$2,000 per day
$5,000 per rolling 30 days.


I haven't fully tested Skrill/Moneybookers yet, but ACH is free and they have higher limits.

jfat10 said:   
Only if you send using the receiver's email or phone number (or whatever the options are). Any bank I've had offering the service also accepts routing/account numbers.

There may be copycat alternatives (or this may be the copycat), but this service is an example of exactly what you are looking for.



Thanks, I'll take another look at it.

Fees:
$0.95 per payment (I guess this beats $20 for a wire transfer)

Limits:
$2,000 per day
$5,000 per rolling 30 days.

Again, that's using the service directly. Per their site, over 1,700 banks also offer the service, and the bank determines the fees and limits (often free). Find a bank on their list (a typical FWer probably already has a participating account).

Consumers Credit Union, Lake Michigan Credit Union, American Heritage Federal Credit Union, Northwest Federal Credit Union, Susquehanna Bank

mjoply said:   Consumers Credit Union, Lake Michigan Credit Union, American Heritage Federal Credit Union, Northwest Federal Credit Union, Susquehanna Bank

Excellent!

Do you know if all these are via billpay?

jfat10 said:   Fees:
$0.95 per payment (I guess this beats $20 for a wire transfer)

Limits:
$2,000 per day
$5,000 per rolling 30 days.

Also says $500 daily limit for sending from debit card. Same $0.95 fee. Interesting.

EDIT: Also has a $1,000 rolling 30 day limit for debit funding. Not as interesting.

I think you could use ING Orange P2P, they have a weird system where you enter the last 4 of the receiver's account number and the receiver's email address. Then they send an email to the receiver requesting the receiver's entire account number and routing number. When this is entered, the money goes through.

Depending on your needs, you may want to look for a bank account that provides free wire transfers. They are a lot easier and faster than ACH. Most just have high account minimums.

Huge thanks jfat10 and mjoply. I've posted here at least a couple times looking for this info.

Next I'm wondering what limits there are on pushes at each bank, as well if they allow pulls (from linked accounts) and if they offer accounts nationwide or local only.

I'd be happy to format it all into a chart in the QS if others post the info for the various banks and CUs.

BrycePGH said:   Depending on your needs, you may want to look for a bank account that provides free wire transfers. They are a lot easier and faster than ACH. Most just have high account minimums.


Right, free wire transfers usually have high account minimums or minimum age (50/55) requirements.

The problem with wire transfers is that usually they require extra work on the part of the sender (having to fax in wire transfer request, voice verification, sending copy of ID, etc.). Also, some banks charge the receiver a fee for an *incoming* wire transfer. Personally, I think that a bank that charges you money for a deposit should belong on some sort of blacklist (along with banks that require a credit check to open a savings account).

The only bank I could find which has free wire transfers and no account minimums is Los Alamos National Bank. But from the website it looks like you need to open an account in person. Does anybody have an account with them? Were you able to open an account online?

jfat10 said:   

Excellent!

Do you know if all these are via billpay?


Yes, they say "Bill Pay", but you can enter a routing and account number to send the "payment" to.


SomeOtherChick said:   Huge thanks jfat10 and mjoply. I've posted here at least a couple times looking for this info.

Next I'm wondering what limits there are on pushes at each bank, as well if they allow pulls (from linked accounts) and if they offer accounts nationwide or local only.

I'd be happy to format it all into a chart in the QS if others post the info for the various banks and CUs.


There seems to be a 20000 limit per payee. There does not appear to be a limit to the amount you can do for all payees combined. All of the ones I listed are nationally available accounts, except for Susquehannah Bank (Maryland only I believe). Consumers Credit Union, Northwest Federal Credit Union, and Lake Michigan Credit Union all share the same Bill Pay service and the cut off time is 12pm Eastern Standard Time. Susquehannah is around 2 or 3 and I am unsure about American Heritage Federal Credit Union.

USAA is horrible with ACH. They have stolen money out of my account via ACH for five months and it still isn't resolved. My first advice to anyone is check your statements monthly and immediately dispute any bad ACH withdrawals. Do NOT give the vendor (USAA in my case) the benefit of the doubt to correct it themselves.

Ally can be added to the list. They use POP money with no fees and allow direct ACH push w/o verification.

I know Navy federal did this for me over the phone a few days ago  when I was opening their cd


I am new to GLCU how did you guys get them to do a pull without a trial deposit?

Opening a CD involves an ACH pull, not a push. (See also: thread title).

Bump! I've been looking for a new bank and this is a must-have feature for me.

Also, add to this list Bank of Internet (Pop Money).

jfat10 said:   
mjoply said:   Consumers Credit Union, Lake Michigan Credit Union, American Heritage Federal Credit Union, Northwest Federal Credit Union, Susquehanna Bank

Excellent!

Do you know if all these are via billpay?

  Consumers's Credit Union is via billpay.

FNBO Direct allows this.

ericish said:   USAA is horrible with ACH. They have stolen money out of my account via ACH for five months and it still isn't resolved. My first advice to anyone is check your statements monthly and immediately dispute any bad ACH withdrawals. Do NOT give the vendor (USAA in my case) the benefit of the doubt to correct it themselves.
  

I have a feeling there is more to this story.  In any event, USAA's ACH system is top notch, although it is limited to 5k per day.  There is also a 3 or 5 day waiting period on newly added accounts before you can send money to them.



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