Huge change to TDBank billpay 3/24

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Looks like TDbank is changing the way they handle billpay checks. Right now, they deduct the amount from your account the second you write the check. They are switching to a system where you write the check online, and the bank doesn't deduct the amount until the check is cashed. This is happening on March 24th according to the flyer they mailed me. Personally, I like it when the check is deducted instantly, because sometimes the people I write the check to dont cash it for months. Its much easier to balance your account when its deducted instantly, so you dont have to worry about outstanding checks. Sorry, TDBank, but I'm going to have to leave.

Banks that DO DEDUCT your Billpay payment even though they haven't been cashed by payee yet:
Bank of America
Ally
Chase
Citibank
Endura FCU
First National Bank of Omaha
ING Direct
Umpqua Bank
Wells Fargo (Wachovia)
BECU
FNBODirect

Banks that DON'T DEDUCT your Billpay account until the check has been cashed by the payee:
Charter One
Citizen's
Fidelity
Danversbank
Incredible Bank
PNC
Presidential Bank
Schwab Bank
US Bank
USAA
TD Bank (as of 3/23/13)
BB&T

LIST UPDATED 3/28/13

Member Summary
Most Recent Posts
Note that Ally debits on the expected delivery date also.

I pay my rent this way since the management doesn't take CC. ... (more)

Infinion (Feb. 27, 2013 @ 9:50a) |

Have you really experienced trouble with people/companies erroneously debiting your checking account or charging your cr... (more)

Infinion (Feb. 27, 2013 @ 9:55a) |

Yes. Especially with re-occurring monthly billing. Back in the day, AOL was famous for this. GoDaddy also comes to mi... (more)

Ruup (Feb. 28, 2013 @ 9:05a) |

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Banks that DON'T DEDUCT your Billpay account until the check has been cashed by the payee:
BB&T

Great info, nice job Ruup (and welcome to FWF!).

Back when interest rates were meaningfully different than zero, I would value a bank that gave me free float. These day's I'd rather them debit the funds immediately like OP so it's easier for bookkeeping.

Does Wachovia still exist?

Who "writes checks" using billpay? Aren't the vast majority of payments made electronically, with the "travel time" being only one day or so anyway? I'm down to a handful of checks per month, and not a single one of them could be made through billpay anyway. They are things like checks to school for field trips or donations to church or home repair stuff. I can't think of a single check I've written in the last year that could have been processed online.

I use bill pay to send checks whenever possible (i.e. when I would otherwise be mailing a check, such as for HOA dues),

PNC deducts mine when I send it, although they might be electronic payments not checks.

BOA deducts the money from my account on the day the payment is delivered to they payee instead of the day the payment is scheduled.

tjguitar85 said:   I use bill pay to send checks whenever possible (i.e. when I would otherwise be mailing a check, such as for HOA dues),

Me too. I haven't mailed a physical check in a long time. Just need a name and address. Free postage, but more importantly, free recordkeeping and I don't have to find the checkbook, an envelope, and a stamp.

I would prefer neither option and instead a 3rd.

I would prefer that the money is "held" much like a credit approval or a credit hold until the check is either cashed or 90 days passes.

Does Wachovia still exist?

My list may not be up to date. I copied it from another list I found.


Who "writes checks" using billpay? Aren't the vast majority of payments made electronically, with the "travel time" being only one day or so anyway?

Using billpay, you use the bank's website to pay vendors. If the vendor accepts electronic payment, it goes electronic. If the vendor does not, the bank prints a paper check and mails it to the vendor. Its the best way to do it.

If your paying your bills by giving the business your checking account number or credit card number, you are giving them permission to debit from your account, indefinitely. There is no way to turn it off if they want to continue to charge you. This is the wrong way to pay bills.

So by using billpay, its just one check for one transaction.

My biggest issue is the people/businesses I use bill pay to write checks to who dont cash them for weeks or months. With the "deduct immediately method" you write the check and the balance reflects the correct amount with that check removed. With the new method, you will need to keep a manual check register, like the old days, to make sure you have the money in the account when those checks get cashed. I'm not going back to keeping a manual check register.

Ruup said:   Who "writes checks" using billpay? Aren't the vast majority of payments made electronically, with the "travel time" being only one day or so anyway?

Using billpay, you use the bank's website to pay vendors. If the vendor accepts electronic payment, it goes electronic. If the vendor does not, the bank prints a paper check and mails it to the vendor. Its the best way to do it.

If your paying your bills by giving the business your checking account number or credit card number, you are giving them permission to debit from your account, indefinitely. There is no way to turn it off if they want to continue to charge you. This is the wrong way to pay bills.

So by using billpay, its just one check for one transaction.
Of course. I just don't have any payees that I mail checks to. All my "vendors" either accept credit card payments, or I can push payments electronically from one of my checking accounts. I don't MAIL checks to anyone anymore. Other than the HOA example, what kind of bills are you guys paying with "checks?"

More info here about the changes.

http://www.tdbank.com/billpayupdate/

I write billpay checks to: water, sewer, electricity, house payment, friends/family reimburse, hospitals, car payment, dentist, cable, phone, credit card payment, internet, insurance, student loan, etc.

Really anyone who mails me a bill. I use billpay to pay them.

I once used bill pay to generate "cashier's check". If the amount aren't deducted until it is cashed, it would be the best cashier's check.

Ruup said:   If your paying your bills by giving the business your checking account number or credit card number, you are giving them permission to debit from your account, indefinitely. There is no way to turn it off if they want to continue to charge you. This is the wrong way to pay bills.You do realize that even with BillPay your payees still have access to your bank account number and bank routing number.

Moreover, if you have a check recipient that debits your account without your permission you can easily have your bank reverse the debit and more importantly have that person prosecuted for theft.
If they do this repeatedly they will likely end up in the Greybar Hotel.

Ruup said:   My biggest issue is the people/businesses I use bill pay to write checks to who dont cash them for weeks or months.Who in the world are you writing checks to that then sits on them for weeks or months without cashing them?
I have never had this problem and I have been paying by check for many decades.

Ruup said:   
Banks that DO DEDUCT your Billpay payment even though they haven't been cashed by payee yet:
Bank of America


This does not match my experience (perhaps state and/or account specific). What's your source?

mikeres said:   Ruup said:   If your paying your bills by giving the business your checking account number or credit card number, you are giving them permission to debit from your account, indefinitely. There is no way to turn it off if they want to continue to charge you. This is the wrong way to pay bills.You do realize that even with BillPay your payees still have access to your bank account number and bank routing number.

Maybe it depends on the bank, but the billpay checks from Alliant have a different account number (and possibly routing number too?), though Alliant is one of those that deducts it right away so perhaps they hold it in some kind of escrow account?

I would much rather have the check not come out until it is actually cashed through billpay.

You've never had a check get lost in the mail? I've had it happen a few times - and I would not want money taken out for a phantom check.

How would you even stop payment on a check if it was automatically deducted?

I agree with Al3xK - a hold situation would be the best of both options.

dcwilbur said:   Ruup said:   Who "writes checks" using billpay? Aren't the vast majority of payments made electronically, with the "travel time" being only one day or so anyway?

Using billpay, you use the bank's website to pay vendors. If the vendor accepts electronic payment, it goes electronic. If the vendor does not, the bank prints a paper check and mails it to the vendor. Its the best way to do it.

If your paying your bills by giving the business your checking account number or credit card number, you are giving them permission to debit from your account, indefinitely. There is no way to turn it off if they want to continue to charge you. This is the wrong way to pay bills.

So by using billpay, its just one check for one transaction.
Of course. I just don't have any payees that I mail checks to. All my "vendors" either accept credit card payments, or I can push payments electronically from one of my checking accounts. I don't MAIL checks to anyone anymore. Other than the HOA example, what kind of bills are you guys paying with "checks?"


I use the Billpay to push, it's just some of the vendor's don't take electronic payments...such as the aforementioned HOA. In addition, the bank that has my mortgage. I've also used it to send checks to a maintenance company.

cyberkost said:   Ruup said:   
Banks that DO DEDUCT your Billpay payment even though they haven't been cashed by payee yet:
Bank of America


This does not match my experience (perhaps state and/or account specific). What's your source?

As xit stated above, BofA debits the amount on the delivery date (not the payment request date), whether or not it has been cashed.

Moreover, if you have a check recipient that debits your account without your permission you can easily have your bank reverse the debit and more importantly have that person prosecuted for theft.

Thats not what I'm referring to. What I was talking about is a vendor who you give your checking account number to and use it for automatic payment for that account. These companies typically have a 22 page "terms and conditions" that cover them legally. So no, its not theft, you agreed to let them do it.

Ruup said:   More info here about the changes.

http://www.tdbank.com/billpayupdate/

I write billpay checks to: water, sewer, electricity, house payment, friends/family reimburse, hospitals, car payment, dentist, cable, phone, credit card payment, internet, insurance, student loan, etc.

Really anyone who mails me a bill. I use billpay to pay them.
At least half of those probably take credit cards. You are wasting a lot of earning opportunities for frequent flyer miles or Cash Back or other bonuses. And payments to credit cards, utilities and mortgage companies are likely not being sent by check anyway; those are likely electronic transfers.

I still don't get this thread.

mactv said:   You've never had a check get lost in the mail? I've had it happen a few times - and I would not want money taken out for a phantom check.

You simply call TDbank, tell them its lost and they cancel the check, and put the money back next day. No charge.

Another nice feature they have, if the person/vendor doesn't cash the check in 6 months, TDbank puts the money back into your account.

At least half of those probably take credit cards. You are wasting a lot of earning opportunities for frequent flyer miles or Cash Back or other bonuses. And payments to credit cards, utilities and mortgage companies are likely not being sent by check anyway; those are likely electronic transfers.

Most of those, don't accept cards. I do take advantage of credit card bonuses when possible. Although some are electronic transfers using billpay, some are not and paper checks are printed and mailed.

The point of the thread is this is a major change to the way tdbank bill-pay functions.

As xit stated above, BofA debits the amount on the delivery date (not the payment request date), whether or not it has been cashed.

That's not so bad. Maybe a four day difference. Thanks for the tip. I will need to switch banks soon, I'll consider BOA.

TDBank was a late bank to introduce ebills which other banks have had much earlier. Capital One actually delays bill payment dates arbitrarily which is so annoying. I wish they would keep consistent dates on those.

In the past Commerce Bank's internet services were an after thought and the systems were horrible. It had late hours but horrible interest rates. And in a day when most people do bill payment online rather than write out checks, it was antiquated. TD Bank acquired it and only now are they redoing the bill payment system to remain competitive.

TD Bank has nothing that makes me want to use it for Personal Banking. They even once double credited a deposit I made which they would have caught anyways via audit and I had reported it when it was Commerce Bank.

Only now are they making an effort to improve online systems, but it is too little and too late.

Wachovia was acquired by Wells Fargo.

dcwilbur said:   Ruup said:   More info here about the changes.

http://www.tdbank.com/billpayupdate/

I write billpay checks to: water, sewer, electricity, house payment, friends/family reimburse, hospitals, car payment, dentist, cable, phone, credit card payment, internet, insurance, student loan, etc.

Really anyone who mails me a bill. I use billpay to pay them.
At least half of those probably take credit cards. You are wasting a lot of earning opportunities for frequent flyer miles or Cash Back or other bonuses. And payments to credit cards, utilities and mortgage companies are likely not being sent by check anyway; those are likely electronic transfers.

I still don't get this thread.


Millions and millions of New Yorkers who pay their rent by check.....because the only landlords that accept credit cards or electronic transfer are the ones that charge $2500 for a studio.

td has been somewhat rude to me lately, i tried to withdraw $180 to a linked bank account and they kept cancelling the transfer. when I tried to log in a screen overlay would appear notifying me of the cancellation and to email them if I wanted to know why the transfer was being cancelled. so I emailed them. they said they cancelled it because the transfer violated the patriot act or some ridiculous bs. I explained I needed to pay a bill that was going to be withdrawn from the bank account. they said they understood and did not suspect me of doing anything wrong. I think asked then what the heck you blocking my transfers for, for petes sake. they then said i should do some online trading if i wanted to send money to different linked banks. thats strictly for the birds, they so mad they don't make high commissions off me!!

I don't believe my management agent accepts credit cards either. They accept bill payment. They wanted tenants to fill out a form to have the funds automatically taken out of bank accounts which is a horrible idea. It is not for rent, but for maintenance dues.

If it was able to be done with a Credit card, that is indeed the best way if they offer it.

You'd be subsidizing it if they offered it. But of course it didn't occur to you.

Getting back to the topic, if you actually write checks from your checking account, you need to keep track of outstanding checks anyway. My feeling is that most customers either will not care or will actually welcome the change - they will like that bill payments in progress are treated as checks. Personally, I would prefer a hold (but don't know of any bank offering it) or immediate debit (and auto-return if not deposited in 180 days), but I don't think it's offered either. Closest there is is same night debit, which is not instant and is not tremendously more convenient.

Looking at TDBank demo, it looks like the same system they are using at Citizen Bank. Screens look the same.

http://www.citizensbank.com/olb_demo/retail/default.aspx?id=payB...

Add to Banks that DO:

BECU

A big bank like TD Bank is using a poor bill payment product implementation compared to other institutions.

dcwilbur said:   Ruup said:   More info here about the changes.

http://www.tdbank.com/billpayupdate/

I write billpay checks to: water, sewer, electricity, house payment, friends/family reimburse, hospitals, car payment, dentist, cable, phone, credit card payment, internet, insurance, student loan, etc.

Really anyone who mails me a bill. I use billpay to pay them.
At least half of those probably take credit cards. You are wasting a lot of earning opportunities for frequent flyer miles or Cash Back or other bonuses. And payments to credit cards, utilities and mortgage companies are likely not being sent by check anyway; those are likely electronic transfers.

I still don't get this thread.

I've dealt with and deal with a number of small businesses and professionals that don't accept credit cards, but are fine with checks. Some examples:

Housecleaner
Gardener
Pet Sitter
Domestic employee
Architect
Contractor
Tutor
Other individuals

Not everyone is willing to give out bank account information. If I have to pay by check, I'd rather use my bank's bill pay system whenever possible.

glxpass said:   dcwilbur said:   Ruup said:   More info here about the changes.

http://www.tdbank.com/billpayupdate/

I write billpay checks to: water, sewer, electricity, house payment, friends/family reimburse, hospitals, car payment, dentist, cable, phone, credit card payment, internet, insurance, student loan, etc.

Really anyone who mails me a bill. I use billpay to pay them.
At least half of those probably take credit cards. You are wasting a lot of earning opportunities for frequent flyer miles or Cash Back or other bonuses. And payments to credit cards, utilities and mortgage companies are likely not being sent by check anyway; those are likely electronic transfers.

I still don't get this thread.

I've dealt with and deal with a number of small businesses and professionals that don't accept credit cards, but are fine with checks. Some examples:

Housecleaner
Gardener
Pet Sitter
Domestic employee
Architect
Contractor
Tutor
Other individuals

Not everyone is willing to give out bank account information. If I have to pay by check, I'd rather use my bank's bill pay system whenever possible.


Yup! I pay my landlord(housemate) rent and utilities via billpay. At the rate I'm going, I'll only ever need one checkbook for the rest of my life.

Al3xK said:   I would prefer neither option and instead a 3rd.

I would prefer that the money is "held" much like a credit approval or a credit hold until the check is either cashed or 90 days passes.


Exactly. I would like for it to change my cash available, but not change my balance.

Add: FNBODirect

They pay .65% APY on billpay account.
They deduct at end of day of billpay request date.

Use it to pay for auctions (non eBay) that don't accept Paypal. Saves on stamp, envelope, etc.

Skipping 5 Messages...
Have you really experienced trouble with people/companies erroneously debiting your checking account or charging your credit card after you tell them to stop?

Yes. Especially with re-occurring monthly billing. Back in the day, AOL was famous for this. GoDaddy also comes to mind. You cancel, then the company charges you again next month. You call to fix it, then they charge you again next month. You call to tell them you already canceled.... on and on. I finally end up canceling the card. With virtual credit cards, I dont have to worry abou it anymore.



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