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fatwallet7345 said:   So my question is, as i've obviously been out of the car market for a long time, please help me realize if this is something I should pursue or not and if I should go for the edmunds price or somewhere between KBB and edmunds, I really couldnt believe the discrepancy.KBB is more based overly inflated "asking" prices. Edmunds is more based on a actual sale prices.

The problem you have is that because of KBB people have inflated views of what their vehicles are worth. This means that in a sellers market you might have to pay a premium over Edmunds.

Prices may drop further as hurricane sandy vehicles seep into the market

panmet69 said:   With todays cars (say 2000 +) I think its pretty reasonable to expect 200k miles, especially on the high quality japanese brands. Remember that the resale value stays high. Your getting a working vehicle with ~100k usable miles for less than 50% MSRP.

Perfect example of why buying new is oddly a viable option these days. First buyer gets the first trouble-free (and 'new car smell') 100K miles for 50% of MSRP...then the used car buyer gets the next 100K of mostly reliable, but with minor PITA repairs, miles for the same 50% of MSRP...

Moral of the story...either buy 200K+ mile disposable vehicles (and junk at first major repair) or buy new and put the full 200K+ mile on yourself!

I drive a 1995 Mercedes S420...got it 2 years ago for $4800, less than 120k miles. No good on gas but I only have a 6 mile commute. The fundamentals of the car are rock solid and it's never let me down. But a bunch of "comfort and convenience" items weren't working when I bought it...fixed them all myself for next to nothing. Wonderful car, silent, smooth, powerful. Constantly mistaken for newer model.

Last year, when my gf's lease ran out on her Fusion, I convinced her to try my way...we bought a 2003 BMW 325XI. She wanted an AWD car as she's always owned FWD and was afraid to have a BMW with RWD. Had 200k miles so we got it for $5500. In one year of ownership, I replaced the auxiliary fan for the air conditioning and the primary clutch fan, water pump and serpentine belts (fan, pump and belt were all one job). Total of maybe 4 hours work and $450 in parts for both jobs. She loved that car. About a month ago, some guy in a pickup T-bones the car, totaling it. Insurance pays us $800 more than we paid for the car. GF decides to take a chance on a RWD BMW so we pick up a 2001 740il for $4000 and pocket the difference. Car is in excellent shape, 165k miles, but needs 2 parts replaced in the driveline. Parts cost $97 and car is perfectly driveable in the meantime.

Point is, there are deals out there. All the above cars were found via Craigslist. Mileage doesn't matter so much...if I covered the odometers on these cars, no one would ever know they were high mileage. What matters is how the cars were cared for. I can usually tell from reading the ads the type of person the seller is and that often indicates the condition of the car. Look for ads that are well-written and, if there are pictures, look for a car parked in a driveway or garage as opposed to on the street. I always look for the higher end brands, usually German, as they're very well-made. BTW, the repairs mentioned above were all done with simple hand tools and knowledge gained from reading forums like this one...and that's another plus for cars like this: active enthusiast communities with owners who post detailed explanations of common repairs.

D.

wateristasty said:   You can thank that cash for clunkers BS for the current state of the used car market.

I can't believe the BS that comes out each time cash for clunkers gets mentioned. Let's get some real numbers here, cars manufacturing went from around 17 million a year in 2005 down to about 11.6 million in 2010. They went to 14.5 million in 2012. Cash for clunkers got rid of 690k cars. There was also the Tsunami in Japan that reduced production for a little while. There was a long thread about this back here:

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1171195/?start=0

Nadaguide is probably a more reliable guide than KBB. When everyone can sell for less than KBB, then maybe KBB isn't really book value. Predictions were that used car prices would start to fall once the effects of Sandy wears off.

The repairs alone will add up quickly.
so you think you will have 10k in repairs for a 10k car?

bigdinkel said:   I know many FWF say to drive a used car until it breaks down, and I definitely respect that, but I would pay the twice the amount for a brand new car then one that is 13 years old with 100k miles.

You'll have to pay five or six times the amount, NOT twice the amount for a brand new car then one that is 13 years old with 100k miles. Typical well equipped 2013 Accord, $24K out the door, similar 2000 model, around $4,000.

I had a similar issue last year and decided to go with a used car. I was patient and ended up with a 2005 Corolla with 90k miles for $5k. I've been very happy with it. Better deals can be had if you take your time. And if you're going to negotiate, bring cash!

fatwallet7345 said:   So i drive a 98 Durango. 190k miles and in pretty good shape. I've done most of my own repairs (water pump, ac, radiator etc) however I know cars don't last forever... so I'm always looking for a graceful exit strategy.

My friend let me know he is selling his 2001 Tacoma with 99k. This has been a vehicle I've wanted, albeit I was hoping for something a little newer (2008 or newer) He has been the only owner and done all the maintenance (new water pump, tires, plugs and wires). He has just used it to commute 20 miles a day. It's pretty much has all the options, double cab, Pre-Runner V6, leather (not 4x4), however I was SHOCKED at the price $10,600 He told me that was in line with KBB. Sure enough he was right. However, edmunds.com has it more in the 6500-7000 range. Also on craigslist, similar vehicles are listed around 10k...



The Tacoma is a little unique in that it has the 2nd highest resale value in the Toyota lineup, and in fact, the 2nd best resale of any vehicle, at least according to this article. If you don't need the utility of a pickup, you can get a Camry or Corolla with far fewer miles in the same price range.

brettdoyle said:   I would pass on the car... the used car market is overpriced currently... many cars have been appreciating.

No one should be buying a used car right now unless they have an absolute need that can't wait. I have seen Civics with 200k miles selling for like 4-5k.

Come back into the market when there are better deals.


I work in the industry and my observation is that the used market isn't that bad right now. It's been on a slide for the last 10 months or so. The slide was interrupted by Superstorm Sandy, but values are almost back down to where they were pre-Sandy. While we may continue to see a gradual decline in values, I don't anticipate a large correction in values. Current values are considerably less than the used market peaks seen in 2011 and 2012.

Adesa is a great resource for keeping up with the market.

I just bought a 2000 f150 with 42,000 miles for $7,200 off craigslist.

I currently drive a 1997 Honda Civic. It has slightly under 300k miles and still gets 37MPG and runs strong. The majority of cars from the 90's on will last a very long time with a proper maintenance schedule. The rubber that tends to fail is in things like bushings and other suspension components that are relatively cheap to replace, although most require at least intermediate mechanical skills.

tightpapa said:   I just bought a 2000 f150 with 42,000 miles for $7,200 off craigslist.

I just sold a 2008 F150 4x4 with 132,000 miles for $12,000 on eBay and a few months before, a 2004 F150 2x4 with 296,000 miles for $5,000. And you actually believe that a vehicle generally used for work and business was driven just 3,000 miles a year? Was it driven by a little old lady that only drove it to church on Sunday? Or was that the line the seller gave you?

bsp8181 said:   brettdoyle said:   I would pass on the car... the used car market is overpriced currently... many cars have been appreciating.

No one should be buying a used car right now unless they have an absolute need that can't wait. I have seen Civics with 200k miles selling for like 4-5k.

Come back into the market when there are better deals.


I work in the industry and my observation is that the used market isn't that bad right now. It's been on a slide for the last 10 months or so. The slide was interrupted by Superstorm Sandy, but values are almost back down to where they were pre-Sandy. While we may continue to see a gradual decline in values, I don't anticipate a large correction in values. Current values are considerably less than the used market peaks seen in 2011 and 2012.

Adesa is a great resource for keeping up with the market.


There is some speculation right now, that there should be quite a few lease turn ins over the next year. So Prices should be on the down turn.
So it is a good time to sell that higher mileage vehicle and get good money for it now, but not a great time to buy.
$10k can buy a lot of car. It depends on the area of the country that you live in as to what is available and what everything is going for.
Personally, I vote p71 crown vic since it has more towing capacity and cargo room than either the durango or the tacoma.

you can lease a (small) car, and keep ur durango.. its good on a few points.

one being a durango is close enough to a double cab truck, similar hauling abilities and its gas guzzling attributes.

second being if you have 2 cars, yes insurance goes up, but you have options and will be saving gas and maintenance in the mean time.

third, the amount of money you sink into your durango or the money anticipated for the future repairs and the gas.. it will more than likely wash out with a 200 dollar lease for a small car. this way you are extending the life of your current durango. Think of it as tools, you can use a large screwdriver for everything, might end up breaking the tool or the object, but if you get the right tool for the job, you can extend the life of both tools and the object.


durango breaks down? now you have a second car you can drive while it gets fixed. you save gas. need to move some stuff, rent a trailer or maybe it will fit in a durango. you buy a truck and youre out $$$ and you will be repairing it. the only issue I forsee is parking.

btw I have a crown vic~

panmet69 said:   I really think the smart buys are in the offbrands, suzuki, mitsubishi, nissan, etc. Japanese quality at good prices.
There are probably good deals, but also, some parts might be harder to find or cost more. One of the advantages of more common vehicles is that even when there are problems, it's well known and often not to expensive to fix.

Your getting a working vehicle with ~100k usable miles for less than 50% MSRP.
Isn't this more reason to buy NEW? Why not drive the first 100k for 50% MSRP instead of the second 100k? It all depends on how much less than 50%, so if it's 40-45%, I'd pay the extra 5-10% to be the owner of the new car half. Now if it's 70/30, it's a different question.

Ok, no bad crown vic jokes.... Um how about this bad one. I like my cars aged like I like my women. About 10 years old and no more.
Back to the topic. I would start a savings plan and put away $100-$200 or so a month, and keep driving what you have now. Then when your beater breaks the distance to the moon... or explodes, or you see an amazing deal, you will have your funds all ready to go. If you are lucky the money you saved will pay

wizardking said:   I like my cars aged like I like my women. About 10 years old and no more.

And you'll end up in prison for that.

atikovi said:   tightpapa said:   I just bought a 2000 f150 with 42,000 miles for $7,200 off craigslist.

I just sold a 2008 F150 4x4 with 132,000 miles for $12,000 on eBay and a few months before, a 2004 F150 2x4 with 296,000 miles for $5,000. And you actually believe that a vehicle generally used for work and business was driven just 3,000 miles a year? Was it driven by a little old lady that only drove it to church on Sunday? Or was that the line the seller gave you?


Since the F150 is consistently the #1 selling vehicle annually, the days of trucks only being commercial vehicles run into the ground ended about 40+ years ago. Plenty of idiots out there making mall runs in 3-ton vehicles to haul home 2 bags of groceries and a 5-gal bucket of paint from Home Depot.

Now if buyer had found an E150 cargo van claiming similar low mileage, I'd agree that he'd found the proverbial unicorn!

panmet69 said:   
Your getting a working vehicle with ~100k usable miles for less than 50% MSRP.


macosx said:   Isn't this more reason to buy NEW? Why not drive the first 100k for 50% MSRP instead of the second 100k? It all depends on how much less than 50%, so if it's 40-45%, I'd pay the extra 5-10% to be the owner of the new car half. Now if it's 70/30, it's a different question.

I always buy new because I take excellent care of my cars but have NO IDEA how used cars have been kept up.

That said, I think that the second 100K miles come closer to 30% of the MSRP, not 40%-50%. For example, you can pick up a new Honda CR-V for around $23K, but a 2003 will run you only $6560 (28% of MSRP). HOWEVER, you're definitely going to be hit with repairs during the second 100K which are hard to quantify.

I bought one used car in my life. The transmission went in 5 months. Lesson learned.I've bought new ever since........

Good Luck,

sirrebral said:   wateristasty said:   You can thank that cash for clunkers BS for the current state of the used car market.

Uh...that "BS" convinced me to purchase a new vehicle instead of a used one, got me an extra $2,500 trade in value for my old SUV, and put me in a crossover SUV that has saved me about $130 per month in gas.

Over the past 3 1/2 years, the cash for clunkers incentive program has saved me about $8,100.

You're absolutely correct that the program's affect on used car supply had an effect on used car pricing. But it's only fair to point out that the program also had a positive impact on (a) new car sales, (b) consumer savings in gas expenses, and (c) air quality.
$8,100, on paper maybe. If your driving enough miles to save $130 a month just by fuel mileage increase, you have likely eaten up a lot of that $8,100 depreciation of the vehicle.

Those Tacomas are really good trucks. I have a '98 with $184k and it NEVER breaks down. Oil, gas, tires, filters is all it's needed. I abuse it off-roading and towing too. I have the 2.7L 4 cylinder.

I bought a 04 cavalier a year ago with 60,000 miles for ~$2500. (5 Speed) It had paint issues with mismatched tires, and the person was moving. so far I've been lucky and haven't had any timing chain issues. ( I try to change the oil frequently) Overall I agree used cars have been difficult across the board.

As mentioned it is still tough to find a deal. On top of this, it's became much more difficult to weed out all the BS and finding the person offering a good deal to move something. The majority of cars on Craigslist in the BY OWNER section is people with 5-10 vehicles for sale, and frequently a rebuilt title without mentioning it in the listing. ( I once even had a seller directly tell me that his car had been wrecked, but the car still had a clear title. - I ran a VIN check and confirmed the title was in fact rebuilt.) ...But Craigslist is still a good place to find an undervalued car....... typically I find deals by driving somewhere out of the city

StartByServingOthers said:   
( I once even had a seller directly tell me that his car had been wrecked, but the car still had a clear title. - I ran a VIN check and confirmed the title was in fact rebuilt.)


I ran into this too. I get there and the car has obviously been wrecked, air bag light is even on. Of course seller never mentioned this on the phone, but when I press he says his son hit a deer with it but the title was clear. Then his friend shows up and starts acting interested in buying the car also. Went running but to humor myself I ran a Carfax and of course it was a salvage title. What a joke and a waste of an afternoon.

I have been looking about 6 months for a car for my daughter, (first car). I find that almost all of the prices on the dealers cars are pretty much the same as KBB, which is more than NADA. Private party cars are mostly junk. The really good deals on CL are scams. With the price of gas I am not going to run and look at every thing.

Periodically I check Cars.com, eBay, auto trader and some other site. I look at everything with 150 miles of me and the best deals I found were older high end models like BMW, Saab, Audi and Mercedes. But they are all at the 150 mile or more distance.

There are a lot of R title cars in our area and they want KBB prices for them also.

I'm 60 miles east of Pittsburgh Pa. if anyone has anything good.

dishdude said:   StartByServingOthers said:   
( I once even had a seller directly tell me that his car had been wrecked, but the car still had a clear title. - I ran a VIN check and confirmed the title was in fact rebuilt.)


I ran into this too. I get there and the car has obviously been wrecked, air bag light is even on. Of course seller never mentioned this on the phone, but when I press he says his son hit a deer with it but the title was clear. Then his friend shows up and starts acting interested in buying the car also. Went running but to humor myself I ran a Carfax and of course it was a salvage title. What a joke and a waste of an afternoon.


Interestingly, in my area of SoCal, I was just looking for an older used car (and, when I say older, I'm talking late '90's). There were many salvage vehicles on CL ... but the price difference in this group was not that much from non-salvage (often only a discount of 10 - 20% of non-salvage comparables). This is why I took my "totaled" car back and am going to sell it (honestly as salvage ... ven listed in the posting).

kmsandrbs said:   dishdude said:   StartByServingOthers said:   
( I once even had a seller directly tell me that his car had been wrecked, but the car still had a clear title. - I ran a VIN check and confirmed the title was in fact rebuilt.)


I ran into this too. I get there and the car has obviously been wrecked, air bag light is even on. Of course seller never mentioned this on the phone, but when I press he says his son hit a deer with it but the title was clear. Then his friend shows up and starts acting interested in buying the car also. Went running but to humor myself I ran a Carfax and of course it was a salvage title. What a joke and a waste of an afternoon.


Interestingly, in my area of SoCal, I was just looking for an older used car (and, when I say older, I'm talking late '90's). There were many salvage vehicles on CL ... but the price difference in this group was not that much from non-salvage (often only a discount of 10 - 20% of non-salvage comparables). This is why I took my "totaled" car back and am going to sell it (honestly as salvage ... ven listed in the posting).
Yea, I looked at a 2002 Pontiac Sunfire yesterday. It had an R title and the guy wants $2995. KBB shows $2595, and of course that would be with a good title. The fit of the right rear door and the trunk show evidence of the repair. I spotted it and when looking closer he mentioned about the title. He said his son had it for 5 years, so it was totaled when it was 6 years old. Must have been a lot of damage to total it then.

sayhey said:   panmet69 said:   
Your getting a working vehicle with ~100k usable miles for less than 50% MSRP.


macosx said:   Isn't this more reason to buy NEW? Why not drive the first 100k for 50% MSRP instead of the second 100k? It all depends on how much less than 50%, so if it's 40-45%, I'd pay the extra 5-10% to be the owner of the new car half. Now if it's 70/30, it's a different question.

I always buy new because I take excellent care of my cars but have NO IDEA how used cars have been kept up.

That said, I think that the second 100K miles come closer to 30% of the MSRP, not 40%-50%. For example, you can pick up a new Honda CR-V for around $23K, but a 2003 will run you only $6560 (28% of MSRP). HOWEVER, you're definitely going to be hit with repairs during the second 100K which are hard to quantify.

I bought one used car in my life. The transmission went in 5 months. Lesson learned.I've bought new ever since........

Good Luck,


I bought one brand new car in my life
I had to replace a transmission ball joints and fuel pump before it hit 100k!
I spent more in repairs in my new car once the warranty ran out than all my used cars put together
lesson learned

kmsandrbs said:   dishdude said:   StartByServingOthers said:   
( I once even had a seller directly tell me that his car had been wrecked, but the car still had a clear title. - I ran a VIN check and confirmed the title was in fact rebuilt.)


I ran into this too. I get there and the car has obviously been wrecked, air bag light is even on. Of course seller never mentioned this on the phone, but when I press he says his son hit a deer with it but the title was clear. Then his friend shows up and starts acting interested in buying the car also. Went running but to humor myself I ran a Carfax and of course it was a salvage title. What a joke and a waste of an afternoon.


Interestingly, in my area of SoCal, I was just looking for an older used car (and, when I say older, I'm talking late '90's). There were many salvage vehicles on CL ... but the price difference in this group was not that much from non-salvage (often only a discount of 10 - 20% of non-salvage comparables). This is why I took my "totaled" car back and am going to sell it (honestly as salvage ... ven listed in the posting).


I find used luxury cars and suv's to be some of the better deals on CL
Look for something that no 16-25 would be caught dead driving with horrible gas milage

JonnyRock said:   sayhey said:   panmet69 said:   
Your getting a working vehicle with ~100k usable miles for less than 50% MSRP.


macosx said:   Isn't this more reason to buy NEW? Why not drive the first 100k for 50% MSRP instead of the second 100k? It all depends on how much less than 50%, so if it's 40-45%, I'd pay the extra 5-10% to be the owner of the new car half. Now if it's 70/30, it's a different question.

I always buy new because I take excellent care of my cars but have NO IDEA how used cars have been kept up.

That said, I think that the second 100K miles come closer to 30% of the MSRP, not 40%-50%. For example, you can pick up a new Honda CR-V for around $23K, but a 2003 will run you only $6560 (28% of MSRP). HOWEVER, you're definitely going to be hit with repairs during the second 100K which are hard to quantify.

I bought one used car in my life. The transmission went in 5 months. Lesson learned.I've bought new ever since........

Good Luck,


I bought one brand new car in my life
I had to replace a transmission ball joints and fuel pump before it hit 100k!
I spent more in repairs in my new car once the warranty ran out than all my used cars put together
lesson learned



What make and model was that? Please don't say it was a Yugo or some such POS, they don't count.

jimates said:   I have been looking about 6 months for a car for my daughter, (first car).

I'm 60 miles east of Pittsburgh Pa. if anyone has anything good.


What price range? Got a 2010 Kia Rio and 2009 Hyundai Accent in DC.

Mickie3 said:   JonnyRock said:   sayhey said:   panmet69 said:   
Your getting a working vehicle with ~100k usable miles for less than 50% MSRP.


macosx said:   Isn't this more reason to buy NEW? Why not drive the first 100k for 50% MSRP instead of the second 100k? It all depends on how much less than 50%, so if it's 40-45%, I'd pay the extra 5-10% to be the owner of the new car half. Now if it's 70/30, it's a different question.

I always buy new because I take excellent care of my cars but have NO IDEA how used cars have been kept up.

That said, I think that the second 100K miles come closer to 30% of the MSRP, not 40%-50%. For example, you can pick up a new Honda CR-V for around $23K, but a 2003 will run you only $6560 (28% of MSRP). HOWEVER, you're definitely going to be hit with repairs during the second 100K which are hard to quantify.

I bought one used car in my life. The transmission went in 5 months. Lesson learned.I've bought new ever since........

Good Luck,


I bought one brand new car in my life
I had to replace a transmission ball joints and fuel pump before it hit 100k!
I spent more in repairs in my new car once the warranty ran out than all my used cars put together
lesson learned



What make and model was that? Please don't say it was a Yugo or some such POS, they don't count.

1997 Chevy Blazer LT
Most of the ones I see on CL have the same transmission issues

atikovi said:   jimates said:   I have been looking about 6 months for a car for my daughter, (first car).

I'm 60 miles east of Pittsburgh Pa. if anyone has anything good.


What price range? Got a 2010 Kia Rio and 2009 Hyundai Accent in DC.
For a first car, and living in this salt, I am thinking around $3k

It's tough when you pay $2000 for a vehicle that is worth $3000, then the tranny goes out which cost $2800. I have a nice 2003 Ford Windstar sitting at my place. It doesn't need a rebuild. It needs the pump and shaft (like all Windstars). They get $800 to do remove and replace a tranny, and on a Windstar it is a little more than I want to do at home.

jimates said:   I have been looking about 6 months for a car for my daughter, (first car). I find that almost all of the prices on the dealers cars are pretty much the same as KBB, which is more than NADA. Private party cars are mostly junk. The really good deals on CL are scams. With the price of gas I am not going to run and look at every thing.

Periodically I check Cars.com, eBay, auto trader and some other site. I look at everything with 150 miles of me and the best deals I found were older high end models like BMW, Saab, Audi and Mercedes. But they are all at the 150 mile or more distance.

There are a lot of R title cars in our area and they want KBB prices for them also.

I'm 60 miles east of Pittsburgh Pa. if anyone has anything good.


I swear every car I look at in Westmoreland, Fayette or Somerset county is an R-title that has been poorly repaired. When I was 16 I bought one as my first car from a place out in Mt Pleasant (before I knew better) and quickly learned a lesson (even had it inspected by a mechanic!). Chances are you will have problems with it that are directly related to the previous accident, and you are stuck with the car because few people are interested in buying a salvage title car.

Hey, tell us your car searching methods. ? thanks



RealEstateMatt said:   $10K is a lot for an '01 Toyota anything.

I picked up an '05 Infiniti G35 with 115K miles for a little over $7K as my daily driver a few months ago.
As long as you don't need a big vehicle like a truck or SUV for hauling crap all the time, get something smaller.

P.S. I would never get a pickup truck...too many friends would ask to borrow it to move, or even worse; ask me to help them move.

atikovi said:   tightpapa said:   I just bought a 2000 f150 with 42,000 miles for $7,200 off craigslist.

I just sold a 2008 F150 4x4 with 132,000 miles for $12,000 on eBay and a few months before, a 2004 F150 2x4 with 296,000 miles for $5,000. And you actually believe that a vehicle generally used for work and business was driven just 3,000 miles a year? Was it driven by a little old lady that only drove it to church on Sunday? Or was that the line the seller gave you?


Congratulations on your sales of your vehicles. Actually the story on the F150 I bought - was that the gentlemen bought it new and then MS symptoms started showing up. In fact there was a small scrap below the passengerís door when he did not have good control of the pickup (according to his wife). So he stopped driving and they started searching for a van that would handle a wheelchair. Only awhile after they found a van and had an extra vehicle did he decide to sell the F150. I was a little suspicious at first - but after talking to some people that knew the family everything appeared to be on the up and up. So as I am sure you have learned by now EVERYTHING MAY NOT BE AS IT FIRST APPEARS. I would guess that you probably live in a high population area from the price you got for your vehicles. But I might not be correct.

craftsmd said:   atikovi said:   tightpapa said:   I just bought a 2000 f150 with 42,000 miles for $7,200 off craigslist.

I just sold a 2008 F150 4x4 with 132,000 miles for $12,000 on eBay and a few months before, a 2004 F150 2x4 with 296,000 miles for $5,000. And you actually believe that a vehicle generally used for work and business was driven just 3,000 miles a year? Was it driven by a little old lady that only drove it to church on Sunday? Or was that the line the seller gave you?


Since the F150 is consistently the #1 selling vehicle annually, the days of trucks only being commercial vehicles run into the ground ended about 40+ years ago. Plenty of idiots out there making mall runs in 3-ton vehicles to haul home 2 bags of groceries and a 5-gal bucket of paint from Home Depot.

Now if buyer had found an E150 cargo van claiming similar low mileage, I'd agree that he'd found the proverbial unicorn!


Obviously you donít know me but I am the proverbial FWer, so I would not get a 3 ton vehicle like all these IDIOTS. I have rental property and need a pickup. In addition I just retired and we like to travel and camp using a 13 foot Casita fiberglass camper. But my little 4 cylinder Canyon had a hard time pulling the 13 foot fiberglass camper against the wind and going up mountains. (I remember one time against the wind in a rain storm and I had to shift down to keep it going at highway speeds and the gas mileage sucked that day). I could live with all that but we decided to get a bigger camper with a bathroom (16 foot Scamp). So I figured with the additional weight and size it would struggle more. Then when I saw this 6 cylinder stick shift F150 I jumped on it for my rental business and pulling the camper. I had looked at new F150s but apparently Ford stopped making stick shifts (for those IDIOTS) in the F150 model. From my experience the automatics are a little doggy at some speeds on the smaller motors (Usually highway speeds). The dealers claim the automatic gets the same gas mileage as the stick. But I have read several articles that claim that in not true plus from my experience the stick shift can provide me the power when I want it not when some engineer thought it would be best.
If it wasnít for the cost of taxes and insurance I would actually have another vehicle that did not cost as much to run for when I did not need a pickup for the rentals (Of course it would have to be dependable.)
We use my wifeís car if she is not using it for anything except the rentals around town. (Unlike those IDIOTS Ö. LOL)
Relating to another thread Ė the rentals are providing a nice supplement to my SS income.

fatwallet7345 said:    He has been the only owner and done all the maintenance (new water pump, tires, plugs and wires). He has just used it to commute 20 miles a day. It's pretty much has all the options, double cab, Pre-Runner V6, leather (not 4x4), however I was SHOCKED at the price $10,600 He told me that was in line with KBB. Sure enough he was right. However, edmunds.com has it more in the 6500-7000 range. Also on craigslist, similar vehicles are listed around 10k...

So my question is, as i've obviously been out of the car market for a long time, please help me realize if this is something I should pursue or not and if I should go for the edmunds price or somewhere between KBB and edmunds, I really couldnt believe the discrepancy. I have the cash, but it kills me to pay roughly 10k for a depreciating asset that is already 12 years old with roughly half its life used up (99k miles might not be half way on a Toyota). I can't believe Toyotas hold their value this well. Do I just need to man up and realize the used car market is like this now? Plus I'd only be "trading up" by 3 years from my current vehicle. I can only sell my durango for MAYBE 2k.


I'm shopping for a 2.7L 3RZ-FE that some of these trucks had to swap into a 1988 4runner. They also came with 3.4L and 2.4L motors.
I can tell you that the asking price for the motors on these things is pretty darn expensive and finding one with under 100k miles - totaled, still costs several thousand.
I routinely see these trucks with over 200k miles, with all 3 varieties of motors. I consider them to be massively reliable.. And part of why they have such great resale is that Toyota has an great history of building simply amazing mid-sized trucks. Have questions? See: Top Gear

If it's the truck that you want, I don't think you'll go wrong with it. I'd say $7-9k unless it's cosmetically pristine and he has receipts for his "work".

My only complaint about this truck - and perhaps may of the generations before it is that the 3.4L motor isn't particularly powerful or efficient... That includes the prior 3.0L V6 that the 3.4L was based on. Your Durango puts down a lot more power/torque.. They Toyota will get better mileage, but it's not great. I expect performance or economy. In a Toyota truck, you trade those for longevity.

I probably wouldn't pay $10k for it... But I have paid $10k in the past for used 4x4 toyotas with under $100k miles and that was probably more than 10 years ago...

Alright so my 100k miles 50% MSRP was a bit off.

Realistically were talking 100k miles at 25%-35% MSRP. At 200k miles these vehicles are still worth something (you don't get 0% MSRP back, maybe 5%-10%). Additionally insurance is much cheaper (liability only is a viable option here.) Also, the vehicle you are about to purchase has been thoroughly vetted in a general sense. Lots of people have owned these things and are probably complaining all over the internet about it. The 2006 Civic was voted vehicle of the year when it came out. Today Honda has extended the warranty to 8-years / 100k miles because the engines crack. Sure glad I didn't buy one of those (new or used.)

I'm sure some of you here have had bad luck buying used cars. So far in my life I've had excellent luck with the 5+ vehicles I've bought used. I've saved literally tens of thousands of dollars. So if I buy a vehicle that needs a new tranny 1 month in, I'm still way ahead lifetime.

The only thing you can do is due diligence. Research the crap out of the used vehicle you want. Get a thorough mechanical inspection (ask him to look over the known issues, that you researched in step1 !) and hope you get a bit lucky.



Or let FW do the work for you and buy a crown vic.



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